What is Digg?Sponsored by Travelzoo
Take Advantage of Ridiculously Low Holiday Airfares view!
travelzoo.com - Flights $52 and up for Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Year. But move on it now.
93 Comments
- erkokite, on 10/12/2007, -9/+19"They're always playing catchup to Windows anyway. There's really nothing that has ever compared to Windows in terms of an intuitive and useful GUI."
You sir, are an idiot. - raremage, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I'm sure Apple never hires programmers unless they fear a Windows update. Talk about reading into things...
- r©ain, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Man oh man oh man.
I love seeing how these Apple threads always start a This OS Sucks, this OS rules flame war.
Apple Zealots suck as bad as Windows zealots.
Except I think the Apple zealots appear to be better educated and more technically astute.
Look Windows people, would you go around saying how you'd never eat at an upscale restaurant because you can get a value meal at McDonald's? I mean, McDonald's have billions of hamburgers served, and they have far more many restaurants than Le Chic Gourmand, so they must be somehow better right?
Look, I don't go around dissing on Windows users. But Windows users seem to think it's A-OK to dish on me being a Mac user.
Until they find out what I do for a living and my profile in that arena.
Then, they sort of shut up about Windows, because they realize that I know a fair amount more about computers than they ever will.
And yes, I've used Windows for a few years but turned my back on it as my primary Workstation OS after Jaguar (10.2) came out.
As far as the original poster and his comment starting this thread.
Apple is not keeping up with or combating Windows. Windows is quite blatantly catching up with Apple with Vista -- which it turns out is already falling apart AND is years behind (wasn't it supposed to be out in 2004???????) AND dropped the 100% .NET framework they were touting AND will require 50% of their market to upgrade to new machines to use the shiny new Aero interface.
And that 50% upgrade requirement is a huge WIN for Apple.
Because by then, the entire Family of Apple products will have Intel processors, and I can assure you, plenty of how to's and PC service shops will be more than willing to slap in a Vista install on that shiny new iMac for mom, who wants to give OS X a try, but is scared of leaving Windows 100% behind. And that's just Mom. Gamers will be a market to watch to, since the processors will be the same class, porting PC games to Mac wont be as much of a challenge as long as they use OpenGL.
And in regards to the shock and awe from Vista.... Having run several Enterprise Application Development projects, Vista has all the earmarks of a mismanaged, poorly thought out, crap coded piece of ***** that will be have to be drug out kicking and screaming to see the light of day. In fact is has the hallmarks of being rewritten after they realized they weren't all that and had to rethink their architecture. And IIRC, Billy G even said that they were revamping and pulling many of it's long touted features back in 2004 and it'd be a couple years till delivery -- oops.
So hey -- we wont see Vista till late 2006 early 2007, by then 10.5 will be out and 10.6 just around the corner -- and how long till the next version of Windows after that?
And as far as the amount of hardware Apple supports... it comes down to just that SUPPORT. While Windows "supports" xyzs' card , does Microsoft service that card or offer warranty and phone support?
Can you call MS and have them replace xyz card after xyz card stops working?
Well, when you buy a Mac every piece of hardware is WARRANTY PROTECTED for 90 days. You buy Apple Care and every piece of hardware is supported under a service plan for 3 YEARS.
Look, Windows is a worthy operating system and has plenty of apps and is the defacto OS for the corporate workplace. However, that does not make Windows better than OS X or Linux who use those OS's because they meet their needs better than Windows can.
So will you hardcore Apple bashing Windows zealots kindly shut the ***** up until you have something insightful and intelligent to say? - vinny, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6"OS X will catch up with windows when:
1.) You can tell what desktop applications are running by glancing at "the dock", instead of guessing which ones are just shortcuts."
You can. There is a black triangle under all running applications.
"2.) A window can be resized from all 4 corners."
Not sure why this matters. There are hundreds of little shortcuts in OS X that you won't find in Windows. Not sure how resizing options in an indicator of OS supremacy.
"3.) The keyboard can be used to control the OS with some degree of logic (i.e. deleting files when you hit the delete key)."
You can do almost everything with the keyboard that you can do with a mouse. Deleting files is CMD-Delete. Deleteing files shouldn't be a single key function. Makes sense to me.
"4.) Apple offers some *real* development tools instead of just XCode and Objective-C (what a horrible language)."
What do you consider a real development tool? I think XCode is pretty capable. I generally use Eclipse personally.
"5.) It runs on as much hardware as Windows can."
Not sure what this has to do with an OSs ability, but I'm sure it won't be long before OS X will run on all Intel-based systems.
"6.) It has as many developers developing applications for it."
Again, don't see how this relates to ability, it's simply a measure of marketshare. Would you argure that BMW won't catch up to Ford until it has as many workers? - sych0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3combat vista? that makes it sound like vista's got the edge
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This means nothing. They're merely looking for a person or people to work on their interface.
- lordsandwich, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Nothing I've seen of Aero looks as good as OS X does today, 3D or not. Still, anything's better than XP's Luna.
- aspirinetu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1312 diggs for a job ad?
- ScottBookG4, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This doesn't even mean that there is going to be a major change in the next version of OS X. Did anyone stop to think that maybe they lost someone on the interface and design team and needed to find a replacement? People are speculating WAY too much about Apple on Digg...
- MonkeyFit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The only problem, dmetzcher, is that people are posting these articles from rumor sites. And that wouldn't even be so bad if they didn't keep posting the same rumors over and over again. And then that brings on the flame wars. You have the Apple fanboys shoving down every Apple product and trying to convince us that Steve Jobs is god. On the other side you have the Anit-Apple guys calling them childish (which just pisses them off and sends them into a frenzy) and the Apple fanboys respond with their conversion tactics (which pisses off the Anti-Apple people, same thing happens) and the entire site is crumbling from this. We need moderators. We are proving on a daily basis that the community isn't fit to run a news site. I think I may cancel my membership.
- rustybedsprings, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2" OS X will catch up with windows when:
1.) You can tell what desktop applications are running by glancing at "the dock", instead of guessing which ones are just shortcuts. "
You can already ... The app icon on the dock has an arrow under it, this shows that this app is running. - senorojefep, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Going through and reading the article .... and the hype about 3D interfaces... the problem seems to be that our input isn't keeping up with the complexity of the UI metaphors. Commercially viable computer design seems locked into this monitor/keyboard/mouse system. The mouse as an input devise is extremely limited. Our ability to manipulate the interface is limited to a small pointer which may be ON or OFF. The video about the Minority Report style input screen is interesting...but still is based on the 2D paradigm. Why not two pointers to manipulate data? Increased use of mouse gestures? Touch-interface screens that respond to depth... pull and push. Where are these ideas in comercial UI design?
- escher, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If they're looking for someone to "conceive and design" I doubt that this is for Leopard--more likely 10.6 or for the next OS.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@r©ain: pwnzrd!!!
- repomonkey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I'd quite like a Mac - I love the interface so much I've emulated as much of it as I can on my PC. But the Mac community, as typified by r©ain, turn my stomach. They make Islamic Jihadists look like boy scouts. As long as they're around, fighting Apple's corner in such a blindingly zealous way, I'll be sticking with either MS or Linux.
- replica, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@vinny
With Xbox Live anyone can play multiplayer games, voice chat with friends and download video game demos. My Media Center makes it easy to stream video, pictures and music to my Xbox 360 for viewing on my TV. My Smartphone can sync with my Windows Desktop at home and my Tablet PC at the Office. It is great to have all my contacts, tasks, appointments and emails all up to date on my phone.
If iTunes is innovative so are the following.
Xbox live = Innovative
Media Center = Innovative
Smart Phone = Innovative
By your definition, Microsoft is more innovative than Apple. - Twee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Um, they're making a new Finder from scratch. That doesn't mean its going to look a whole lot different. Just the underlying code is going to be rebuilt and optimized, since Finder is still currently a carbon application.
As for your fanboy flame wars, its all stupid bullcrap. Who cares? No digg. - replica, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@ vinny
Give me an example of this innovation. - aspirinetu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0***** fanboys
- applepro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0they have already been trying for more than a year is my guess
this new hire would be to further innovate for vista professional edition uncut - r©ain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@replica:
I never said those were "innovations"
I put them in a sperate category as "Firsts"
Obviously your ignorance persists to basic reading comprehension.
And perhaps I was wrong about Newton, but Newton had features other items in it's class did not. And Newton on it's own was innovative.
Also, you are saying that scraping together a brand new form of computer by hand is not innovating?
Clearly you are nothing but a troll.
Ohh and xBox live is an innovation?
Or is it just a packaging of existing tech?
Online games have existed for years.
Networked services have existed for years.
Online chat and online gaming chat has existed for years.
So all MS did here was copy and bundle and brand.
Yet, if Apple does that, that's NOT innovation.
What a ***** hypocrit.
Media center?
And how is that innovative?
I've had my macs hooked up to my entertainment system for years with the ability to pllay back and record movies on my mac... yet MS puts some half assed pre built solution together and they've INNOVATED.
Once again, you're a hypocrite.
Nothing was invented.
All they did was copy and bundle.
Smart phone? So the syncing I've been doing with Non-MS branded phones and PDAs since 98 was all an illusion? Or is it just another case of you giving MS deed and title to innovation when all they did was merely copy.
So stuff it bitch.
You're a fanboy without a clue. - jLadd5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0ok I am not a "fanboy" of any os but, windows will never be as good as mac until they figure out a way to keep the damn things from crashing all the ***** time.I personally have to use windows until i have the funds to buy a mac and i wanrt to wait for the 2.33ghz intel prossesors(because lets face it they are way too damn expensive) so i am stuck at the moment.Of ourse in using windows i have had to wipe my hardrive about 5 times even using za and opimization tools.Macs never crash(and thats a fact).Apple does take alot from other peoples ideas but makes it a hell of alot better.Now that they will even be able to run windows..so does that not make apple superior?
- vinny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Apple has copied EVERYTHING they have and so has Microsoft. Neither are innovative"
Replica, this is a ridiculous statement. What is your point? You can't make ridiculous statements like this and expect to have a legitimate debate. I didn't say anything about Microsoft, although I think they are innovative in some areas, but I think you picked some bad examples. Most rational human beings are willing to admit that Apple is more innovative than most computer manufactures. If you deny that then you are simply denying reality and there is no point in continuing this discussion. - timbtwisted, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0maybe microsoft posted the position to get more developments going on OSX that they can just go ahead and copy like every feature in the current OSX.
- xedeon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3"There's really nothing that has ever compared to Windows in terms of an intuitive and useful GUI."
Umm your kidding right?... right? hahahahhaha anyway I can assure you that the windows GUI is NOT intuitive & maybe "somewhat/a tiny tiny tiny bit" useful I have tried and used more than a dozen Linux Distro's and about most OS's out there (QNX,*Nix,BeOS and of course the most intuitive and ever evolving OS X) - replica, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@lightandshadow
I am fine with people saying Apple is the best. What I do not like is when they say that Apple was first. Apple copied everything they have from others. So it is funny when Apple fans scream that Microsoft has copied them.
Apple is not innovative. - lightandshadow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"-first with a floppy drive standard
-first with a bult in speaker standard
-first with mic input standard
-first with CDROM standard
-first with Ethernet standard
-first docking laptop
-first build in mouse on a notebook
-first to kill off the floppy
Apple did not invent any of those. Not a single one."
One of Apple's strengths is making technology easy to use. Take Wi-Fi for example. Apple didn't invent it either, but they were the first to make it a standard feature in a laptop and made the user experience seamless.
Wi-Fi support in Windows has improved with XP service pack 2, but it's still obviously an afterthought and no where near the level of integration and ease of use as Mac OS X. - vinny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0" You have the Apple fanboys shoving down every Apple product and trying to convince us that Steve Jobs is god. On the other side you have the Anit-Apple guys calling them childish (which just pisses them off and sends them into a frenzy)"
MonkeyFit, you just contributed to the problem you are complaining about. It's generalities like this with no support for it that pisses people off. You if can't contribute to the discussion in a mature manner, you should cancel your membership. - etx313, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Aqua took the usability out of nextstep, and that's why it sucks.
- lightandshadow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"3.) The keyboard can be used to control the OS with some degree of logic (i.e. deleting files when you hit the delete key)."
MAC OS X
Close Window : CMD+w
Quit Program : CMD+q
Minimize Window: CMD+m
Delete Item: CMD+Delete
W=Window, M=Minimize, Q=Quit. Seems logical to me....
WINDOWS
Close Window ALT+F4
Quit Program: ALT+F4
Minimize Window: ALT+Space, select Minimize from the System Menu with arrow keys
Delete: Delete (woops!)
WTF? - spamdies, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0no digg for the macrumors site.
- osxmusic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
*Comment made on a Mac* - soupisgoodfood, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0In other news:
Flying Cars from GM?
GM are looking to hire an aeronautical engineer. The only logical assumption is that they must be developing a flying car. - PradaPete, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"senior interface designer" ?? Wrong! They should get one of those 20-something Macromedia Flash kids with the baggy pants and baseball cap on, those kids really do innovative stuff like reinventing the wheel for each of the sites they do - their aunt's picture collection, their dentist's homepage, etc. you get "le idee".
- MonkeyFit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"And as far as the amount of hardware Apple supports... it comes down to just that SUPPORT. While Windows "supports" xyzs' card , does Microsoft service that card or offer warranty and phone support?
Can you call MS and have them replace xyz card after xyz card stops working?
Well, when you buy a Mac every piece of hardware is WARRANTY PROTECTED for 90 days. You buy Apple Care and every piece of hardware is supported under a service plan for 3 YEARS."
Of course MS doesn't support the hardware. But that's because they don't put it into the computer. For that, you have to go to Dell, HP, Sony, or whoever built your PC. And those companies will sometimes help you troubleshoot Windows problems. If you custom built your PC, you can call up the company that manufactured that specific compnent. This does mean you may have 30 different companies to keep numbers for, but that is the price you pay for complete control over what goes into your system. Apple only warrants the hardware because they build the computers that OS X is on. Perhaps you should try a different arguement, because your just comparing apples and oranges.
However, r©ain, the other points you make in your post are quite valid. And while I realize you aren't an Apple _fanboy_, keep in mind that we Windows users also get tired of being told our choice of OS sucks. We all have what we chose for our own reasons and we don't need the others trying to shove their choice down our throats. It's almost like when someone tries to force their religion on you. It's usually not wanted and very annoying. So EVERYONE needs to shut the ***** up about which is the best operating system for other people. Because the truth is, they don't know. Only the person using the OS knows which they like best, no matter how weird their reasons may seem. - r©ain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@monkeyfit:
I brought up Apple Care in response to this bit of banality:
"5.) It runs on as much hardware as Windows can."
There's a reason Apple doesn't let their OS run on just any old piece of hardware.
And that reason is Apple Care. How could they ever hope to provide a support and replacement plan for every piece of hardware in existence? Additionally, limiting the hardware available means they get to pick and chose the tech that goes into the systems they build and tweak for better performance.
So you're right in stating it's apples to oranges, but the post I had in mind while commenting was missing that assertion. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Wo! it's very nice, thanx!
--
http://3couleurs.blogspot.com - MonkeyFit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@r©ain
"I brought up Apple Care in response to this bit of banality:
5.) It runs on as much hardware as Windows can."
Ah, yes. The fact that Mac OS X will only run on Apple hardware has been both a blessing and a curse. The blessing being for Apple since they only have to support it on their own hardware. However, their are those who love to tinker, to custom build their own PC with specific parts that Apple just does not offer. And of those, their are also those that love OS X. And it would be a wet dream come true for them if they could run OS X on their own machine. What would be interesting, is if they sold a special version, for a reduced price, that would run on all this hardware the same way linux does. As in some of your custom hardware may be supported by the OS, and you may have to tinker to get some of your other hardware working. The reason for the reduced price, is that this specific version of OS X would not be eligible for any form of support in any way from Apple, save for a forum where the community could provide support and possibly general OS X updates. Is it a great solution? Not really. But it would eliminate that argument except by the elitists who think you shouldn't have to install any hardware at all. And it would be pretty interesting to see what people could do with it. The x86 build has already been hacked to run on non-Apple hardware. Perhaps Apple could find out how it has been hacked and implement this into a commercial version. Just a modest proposal. I would definitely try out the hacked OS X if it weren't for the fact that, sadly, my Athlon XP doesn't support SSE2, let alone SSE3. :'-( - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Use what makes you happy... and shut up. Stupid discussion.
- r©ain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@PradaPete:
"They should get one of those 20-something Macromedia Flash kids with the baggy pants and baseball cap on, those kids really do innovative stuff like reinventing the wheel for each of the sites they do"
My team got seriously underbid recently for a high profile webservice UI to be done in Flash 8.
Well, we ended up getting it after all when the client realized the guys they brought on were building everything from scratch. And in flash4 development practices none the less!!!
I about bust my gut laughing at what had been produced.
You get what you pay for ;)
But no, not all Flash developers reinvent the wheel. V2 components are the way to go.
Now if only Flex licensing would get more reasonable, then we'd see some serious development.
And those baggy pants wannabes would have to actually learn to code. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0this just in apple is hiring new call center operator quick i have to post that on digg...... is apple not allowed to hire people with out making the news like maby someone quit or they want to expand their team no digg for apple spam i no digg has an apple area but this ain't news I'm fine with the new product stuff and some rumors but not a job opening
- swisswuff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0yes, IMPROVE os x ! actually, some finder features as in "path finder" would be neat :-) and getting rid of the top menu bar and instead having it open at a right mouse click 'anywhere' (if not always, then at least as a serious option) would be also a nice option that would be giving back the user "HIS" / "HER" missing 16-20 pixel on top of the screen :-) !
- MonkeyFit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@r©ain
Those are some pretty sweet boards. I was just trying to make the point that hobbyists are the main crowd wanting to put OS X on their PCs. And then the MS/Linux zealots use their argument to further "the cause". But back to the boards. Wow. So. Many. Inputs/outputs.
So what exactly do you do? I will admit that I've been pretty damn ignorant in the past (MS fanboy/Apple hater), and you can see that by looking at my very first comments on digg. But I have been trying to open my mind. But that is also part of why I will probably soon leave digg. You've seen the comments made here. Not exactly the best environment for someone trying to expand their knowledge. I'll probably head over to Ars Technica. Most of the articles I've seen there are very well written. And I won't see any of the crap that makes it to the homepage here, ^^^ such as job listings. - replica, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@r©ain
Call people names are we. So brave of you, hiding behind your computer. - replica, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@r©ain
You missed my point completely. I was responding to Vinny. I did not agreed with him so I posted items from Microsoft that under his definition would be considered innovative. - zetsurin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Big deal, a company is recruiting. Happens all the time FFS.
- r©ain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@MonkeyFit:
While the lower end desktop models are "closed" systems, the PowerMac is very extensible.
Want a sweet Video IO board that's tailored for OS X/Final Cut Pro and offers h.264?
http://www.aja.com/products_kona.html
Or maybe a 16-channel Midi IO capable HD Audio card?
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile192-main.html
Now, I'm not making the argument that Macs offer the same number of hardware customization choices as PCs, or are ideal for hobbyists. But for those that want more than Apple puts in the box, there is plenty of hardware if you care to look. - xenon221, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yep, this listing has been around forever. I've been checking job listings at Apple. This was there (with the same wording) around a year ago. Who knows though...
- replica, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Can anyone name one innovation Apple has done?
- replica, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@r©ain
Now with that out of the way. Yes, you were wrong about Newton.
You say "scraping together a brand new form of computer by hand is not innovating?" They did not build the first personal computer. So what "new form of computer" are you talking about?
I do NOT believe Xbox Live is an innovation, that was the point I was making with Vinny. Making a copy and bundling it together was NOT innovative. That is all Apple does my friend.
Now, Media Center. Hooking your Mac to your TV is not the same as streaming my media from a central server to any TV in my home. I have a Media Center in my office. I stream video to my Xbox 360 in the Den. My daughter can stream music to her Media Center Extender in her room. Can your Mac do that? Is your Mac a DVR as well?
Apple has copied EVERYTHING they have and so has Microsoft. Neither are innovative. -
Show 51 - 93 of 93 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is