What is Digg?228 Comments
- 3Den, on 10/12/2007, -10/+58Microsoft ALWAYS promises big, then ditches most of the features before launch.
Here's how it works.
1) Microsoft sees competitors offering things that windows doesn't have
2) Microsoft promises how their next version (2 years out) will have way BETTER features. This keeps people from running to the competition.
3) At release time, MS doesn't actually have half the features, but it doesn't matter, because they kept people from leaving for something else.
4) Goto 1 - mabino, on 10/12/2007, -6/+51Actually, I beg to differ. This screws a lot of people, Mac community be damned. Thus, its a bombshell. From Wikipedia on EFI:
"EFI allows vendors to create operating system-independent device drivers."
Sorry vendors!
"With the EFI model, however, manufacturers will be free to write their own OS-independent hardware drivers which can be included within the device itself and can be directly used by modern operating systems."
Sorry users! Keep downloadin' oodles of drivers from scattered support sites!
"EFI is one of the pieces of the framework necessary to implement Trusted Computing."
Sorry... ah, Microsoft? Weren't you all into Trusted Computing? - Takumi, on 10/12/2007, -10/+44Also Microsoft have ditched so many features they promised it is really starting to annoy me, im not saying they promised EFI but that was a big point for me along with the new file system WinFS. It really bugs me
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+37He doesn't have to. OS X has built in system wide spell checking.
- Mwd500, on 10/12/2007, -13/+43Vista is actually driving me toward using a mac more and more.
- sanmarcos, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28For those who do not know what the frak EFI is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Firmware_Interface
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretar%C3%ADa_de_Inteligencia - Kazaki, on 10/12/2007, -7/+27NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
And Vista EFI boots will never be supported on 32 bit chips. ARGH.
...I wonder if Maxxuss would reverse his trend a bit and get Windows on Intel Macs? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -11/+30No, but Google offers free snacks!
:P - mac444, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21Not one post in this thread has yet been completely accurate in describing the Windows Vista kernel. It is actually based off the Windows Server 2003 kernel, as is Windows XP 64-bit Edition. This kernel itself is an evolution of the NT kernel (Windows NT, 2k, and XP). Thus, the starting point for the Vista kernel is not XP but Windows Server 2003.
Also, to the several people who said the kernel is completely re-written, they are incorrect. A completely new version of the Windows kernel while maintaining the level of compatibility of the current Vista is simply impossible. At best, Microsoft would need to use a new version of Virtual PC to provide a way of running the older windows, including the old kernel, to run older software. This would work like the Classic (Mac OS 9.2.2) Environment in Mac OS X for PPC.
These comments of the kernel being completely written show a lack of understanding of the magnitude of such a statement. - eklitzke, on 10/12/2007, -10/+27@robche
Vista does not have a completely rewritten kernel. The kernel codebase for Vista (as well as XP) goes back to NT. Some parts of the kernel may have been tweaked/rewritten, but probably a very small proportion -- most of Vista's new features are just additions to Window's existing infrastructure, not fundamental changes to the OS. - sanmarcos, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Sorry meant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS after EFI.
- BlueFiberOp, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20Games and crucial applications that might not be available on OS X. Grow up, will you? There are dual OS users that are not necessarily fanboys.
- chadseld, on 10/12/2007, -9/+23LOL!! I was just joking about this happening. They dropped all the other cool/advanced features... I can't for the life of me figure out why MS suddenly has difficulty writing software. Did all the good coders leave?? Is there something in the water?
- killerklown, on 10/12/2007, -17/+30I agree it is a joke
20 years in the unix industry and I still refuse to use any version of windows - ldenman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16I think Steve Jobs would know how to spell correctly...
- aemaeth7, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18@turgor:
DirectX 10 (and later versions) will be Vista only. - replica, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14EFI is one of the pieces of the framework necessary to implement Trusted Computing. So, I am glad it is gone.
- Misos, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15Dude, the ONLY advantage Windows has over OS X and Linux is that it has infintely wider support for games. Try running any modern game in XP through VMWare or Qemu, it's going to run like crap. Aside to games, everything else that can be done in Windows can be done in OS X or *nix.
- dbrodbeck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I just ordered a Mac Book Pro. I did not order it so I could use Vista. That said, I imagine some did.....
- Bananas21ca, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13EFI is awsome! OS-Independent drivers! w00t! One more step up for linux.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -10/+19Um, wtf?
This is actually INHIBITING technology. - Takumi, on 10/12/2007, -10/+19Gaaah just when i was hoping that it would be made somewhat easier to have OSX and Windows in unison. Really blows, though I'm still intent on getting a macbook pro
- sud0n1m, on 10/12/2007, -11/+19This is quite a shame - but also a big boost for the efforts to build an open source windows booter for the Intel Macs.
- Toshibi, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14No kidding.
I use an XP box...but you know, I'm getting so sick of MS and it's crap....
I declared that my next computer will be a Mac and I'm sticking to it. I think I'll turn this one into a Linux box. Take that Gates! - Dangerman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10If they take out any more features they're gonna have to change the name to Windows XP Service Pack 3.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Yes, only time will tell how the teeming masses of Mac users will deal with this brutal new reality of the Windows-less Mac.
We're in uncharted territory here, people. Buckle up. - wilsonics, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8They probably can't do the kernel work required to boot via both EFI and BIOS (your choice of course) and still make launch date....which is sometime 2008, right? ;) I read in the comments of the article that the EFI support will be released in a future version, around the time when longhorn server is released.....i really think they are shooting themselves in the foot with this one.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10An Apple bombshell would be $99 box copy of 10.5 Leopard that runs on any hardware that supports EFI.
Guys, this is not that big a deal. If you want to run Windows you will be able to do it using virtual PC. And since there is no heavy translation to another processor, it should be pretty spunky. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+111. Make Vista not boot on intel Macs
2. Release VPC8
3. ?
4. Profit - antoniojvr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8The reason Linux will never make it is because there is no tech support for noobs (like me). It is the most unfrendliest os out there. C'mon, Linux people. Make a SIMPLE how-to.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Many of us who live in the real world need to work with software that runs only on Windows. Either way, my iBook is my primary computing device, and OS X my primary OS, but if I could run Windows on the same machine then I could ditch my crappy old PC once and for all.
- ToeCheese, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8I think that it will take a month after it's release so put me down for 10/25/2008
- Darkspyder86, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Of Course not how else would they be able to sell Virtual PC 8
- cameo8705, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The article actually states that EFI will be supported in Longhorn Server, but who knows when that'll come out...
- drewjoh, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13@ eklitzke:
If you think the kernel changes are "very small", please have a look at channel9.msdn.com and browse around to educate yourself. There are MANY "fundamental changes" to the new OS. - wilsonics, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5But you have to realize that this could also hold back many areas of computing that we haven't even dreamed of yet....Microsoft is, as always, holding the industry back. I don't like trusted computing either, but i'm sure you can appreciate the next generation of computing. BIOS is dead, has been for many many years. EFI is the next wave ;) and also, trusted computing model can be on or off, at the computer makers discretion. (i could be wrong on that last part, but i still believe that efi is the way to go)
- Takumi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Exactly my position, I am planning a move to mac and that doesn't make it any better
- ToeCheese, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7One more step up for linux is right which is a good reason for Microsoft not to support it.
- FishyJoe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6A lot of people upgraded to XP because 98 was really a crash happy pile of crap. XP was a significant improvement over 98. But Vista just doesn't seem to be a big jump for the average user. XP is relatively stable so I just don't see people jumping ship like they did from 98.
- iobuffa, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced"
- r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4And the reason nobody has them (EFI) is because MS doesn't support them. The point is everyone's machines should have EFI, but because of MS they don't. Now that's a bad place to be as MS is (pretty much) dictating MoBo/hardware manufacturers businesses, because MS won't support the features. If they don't support the features, why waste time/money putting the features in as they are (sadly) 92% of the market.
They are holding back technology, abusing their market position to keep the stranglehold they have over the whole market.
If drivers can be OS independant as a result of using EFI, then MS would stand to lose billions from their "Designed For Windows..." and other certification programs. Not to mention they would have to probably do a lot of reworking to DirectX and whatever the name is for their GDI replacement.
That's why they don't want consumer level EFI. Server is fine cos they tend to only have certain limited video/audio configurations usual from on-board chips. - r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Windows doesn't have wider support for games. Saying it does is like saying that "gaming" is an OS feature, which it isn't!
Games developers widely support Windows. Now that's a completely different statement. - lexbaby, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"Microsoft have ditched so many features they promised it is really starting to annoy me"
I agree. Also they go back and forth. For example, WinFS is back in!
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winfs_preview.asp - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6This baffles me. I wonder if this could be a preemptive move by MS to keep OSX from running on Windows PCs and vice versa. Not only could it make the hardware more compatible it could potentially make device drivers more compatible as well. EFI is not a new technology, and I can't imagine that implementing support is that difficult so it seems like an intentional move. Oh well, nothing to get too worked up about I guess *sigh*.
- michaelstone, on 10/12/2007, -21/+24I see no spin at all.They've said they would support EFI, now they're not. This angers Intel Mac users. Please explain spin.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6AMD as well as other hardware makers are backing EFI so it's not only Intel that is backing it.
Microsoft is going to try and hold the PC industry hostage to BIOS. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's not Mac users who want Vista. It's XP owners who want Macs and Vista at the same time.
- QuantaS, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I totally agree
I believe that a lot of college bound teens will be choosing Mac over windows this summer
I for one am - Takumi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"For example, WinFS is back in!" lexbaby
Oh really, well then thats not as much of a dissapointment. But don't hold out on it being included! lol - Agret, on 10/12/2007, -11/+14"Did all the good coders leave??"
Since when did Microsoft have any good coders? =P -
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