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- JonLatane, on 10/11/2007, -11/+45Okay, all you people saying "Windows Vista doesn't care what browser I use," think for just a ***** moment. Why do you think Vista doesn't care? Because the litigation was over Windows 98/ME! I remember when I first got Phoenix (Firefox, two names ago) and, while I could do a lot to try to make it work with everything, all Microsoft applications still opened links in IE. And my HTTP URL handling settings would periodically get reset to IE.
Both Vista and OS X are great about hot-swapping your browser, although there are still some programs that insist on IE. But don't confuse "Microsoft doesn't engage in this practice" with "past rulings prevent Microsoft from engaging in this practice anymore." - jazh, on 10/11/2007, -10/+41Complete Rubbish, Apple is being investigated by the EU for its abuse of ITUNES services and price discriminating within the European Single Market.
- bittermang, on 10/11/2007, -30/+60In those days, Internet Explorer would kick, scream, and resist at every turn if I wanted to use Netscape. And even once a standard "global setting" was adopted for which browser you wanted to be the default, there are some programs still today that don't use the setting and blindly open links in Internet Explorer anyway. Combined with the fact that Internet Explorer isn't an additional piece, Internet Explorer is Windows. Every "Explorer" window has the potental to become Internet Explorer, merely by typing a web address in to it.
Those were the anti trust allegations we were fighting in those days. They actually were leveraging their entire operating system against Netscape because Microsoft believed some Web 1.0 pitch about the Internet and the browser being the future.
The difference is in the execution. See the Mac doesn't care if I use Safari. Or Firefox. Or Camino. Or Opera. Or any other one of a dozen different web browsers. At the end of the day it doesn't matter to the Mac, I tell it which one I want to use, it uses it. The End. Look at all these new features in Mail, they'll say. New search functions, and new this, and that. Except, again, it doesn't care. I can use Office Outlook. I can use Mozilla Thunderbird. I can use Eudora. I can use whatever. Again, the Mac doesn't care.
And the mail comparison is one that is equally as valid on Windows. It comes with Outlook Express. However on Windows you can use whatever you want, Windows doesn't care. That is why there was never a battle over prebundled email programs. Unlike Internet Explorer, Outlook Express is not an integral part of the OS. Outlook Express doesn't care if you use another program.
It is all in the execution. Apple doesn't care what programs you use to do what on your system, thus nobody raises an eye about anti trust. Microsoft takes steps to actively close out competition on it's desktop, and people get mad about it. - bittermang, on 10/11/2007, -6/+30"In those days" was the key wording you all missed. See, "In those days" were when the anti trust proceedings took place, which the article cites. "In those days" I clearly recall Internet Explorer being my default browser again without telling it to be.
And as far as not having to use Internet Explorer, as I said you use it every time you open a window in your OS. Go ahead and open My Computer. Now type a web address. Suddenly and mysteriously you're in Internet Explorer, and in the same window. It doesn't open it in your default web browser, and it doesn't open anything new. The same window, that was once browsing files, is now Internet Explorer. Because it always was.
UNLESS you have IE 7 installed, then it does open it in whatever you've chosen. IE 7 has taken the steps to finally separate Internet Explorer from the OS that they made back in IE 4. This is the right call, and it only took us three more generations of the program and a bunch of litigation to get us there. - cybermort, on 10/11/2007, -6/+23right.. Steve Jobs is so stupid they should be bring Gil Amelio back
... you dumbass - pkulak, on 10/11/2007, -6/+21I love how EVERY ***** TIME Windows updates itself, Outlook is back in my quick launch. Who would be so egotistical to think that their program is so exceptional that even when it's removed, it must just have been a mistake.
- samadam, on 10/11/2007, -4/+18enjoy your stay on my blocklist francis!
- sleepyness, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15^
Microsoft has more volume though...
AAPL
Market Cap 103 Billion
Volume 34 Million
MSFT
Market Cap 292 Billion
Volume 59 Million - danielsan1701, on 10/11/2007, -7/+18Apple makes hardware (primarily).
Microsoft makes software (primarily).
Google makes web apps (primarily).
I know these companies have some overlap, but do they really compete directly enough for any to be "winning"? - lordtyros, on 10/11/2007, -3/+14yes.
Apple makes hardware and software
Microsoft makes hardware and software and web apps
Google makes software and web apps.
looks like overlap to me. - chrisutley, on 10/11/2007, -5/+16It doesn't say Apple is "winning" ... It says when MS and Google fight, Apple wins. Can you comprehend the difference? Think hard ... read it a few times.
- smergs, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9I don't understand why there are any OS fanboys. In the end all you need to be able to do is have a browser. After that it pretty much works the same way. That's what it's going to at least. Less and less need for the applications on the machine.
Now saying that, you still pretty much need Windows if you want to play the majority of PC Games. - spectre_25gt, on 10/11/2007, -15/+24Apple is already above 10% when you look at the laptop market. I guess it's not that difficult to switch.
- MaynardJK, on 10/11/2007, -6/+15My biggest problem with Apple is being associated with fanboy idiots like you.
- MacParrot, on 10/11/2007, -4/+11That's partially true. Apple's excuse is that the copyright holders in each country force Apple (and every other digital service) to order to secure the rights to sell their content, they must not allow cross-country sales. How much of that is true? I don't know and neither does anyone outside of Apple and the big four music companies.
I would think that Apple could reduce their costs by having a single unified Euro-iTunes store with different language preferences. Since most of those countries now use the Euro exclusively, the only differences in price might be local taxes. Those taxes could be applied based on where the credit card used to purchase was issued from.
There would still be some cost differences, but those would be determined by what country you got your credit card from, which is out of Apple's control. - drgmdp, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9holy *****, i DID miss something! :-O
- cybermort, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8@fanas
what?? primarily a software company? you're nuts the vast majority of it's money now and ever has always come from selling hardware thats why they almost disappear during the mac clone era. - wesl56, on 10/11/2007, -24/+29i dont understand why there are so many people that like windows :S
- KicktheDonkey, on 10/11/2007, -6/+11What I'm trying to figure out is where all the Microsoft fanboys have come from recently.
Reading Digg these days is kinda like listening to Diggnation when Kevin and Alex discuss something like Microsoft Surface (from ep #99). Alex kept moaning that Kevin was SUCH an Apple fanboy, that he wouldn't like something just because it came from Microsoft. Why doesn't Kevin just call Alex what he is: A Microsoft fanboy? Every Apple/Microsoft related thread just turns into a bunch of people moaning about Apple fanboys, when, in reality, the complaining about fanboy-ism is much more annoying that actual fanboy-ism.
With all that said, I think I'm going to ban "fanboy" from my vocabulary. Starting.... now! - Ignathius, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9ugh, i remember those days. i still copy&paste URL's because i had to get in that habit, since clicking a URL link in something like IRC would *always* open it with IE. anywhere the system could turn a URL into a click-able link, IE took over when you clicked it. wasn't there a registry hack floating around somewhere that would allow you to open a URL link in a browser of your choosing?
these days, it's simply select 'always use this browser'. back then, it was hack your registry, or copy&paste everything to avoid IE launching. ugh. - almalax19, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Thats because the Record Labels are forcing them to do it. I'm sure they would love to have a single store for all of Europe, it would make things much easier. Same for DRM. Clearly Apple doesnt care if there's DRM because they are leading the charge to remove it from their songs.
- cybermort, on 10/11/2007, -11/+14@sleepyness... do you know what volume is??
is only the amount of the stocks traded up or down is not value... now yes microsoft is bigger and is worth more than apple (thats the market cap / the worth value) However one company is going through insane accelerated growth while the other one is virtually flat, one is bound to think eventually it will catch up in market cap
you people can digg down and disagree all you want but the numbers aren't going to change since 2001 Microsoft has nothing to show for monetary wise and thats what this article is talking about. - epohs, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3@emjaymj
it wasn't irrelevant in the least bit. on the contrary, mentioning how bad things were in the past with inoperable components (both hardware and software) and the lack of choice is exactly what is being discussed here. - lunarship, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3As a Windows user for the last 15 years, and a Linux user for the last 10, all I can say is... GOOD. More power to Apple, more power to Solaris. We need competition folks, without it the computing world will wither and die.
But then I still like Plan 9. I still like VSTa. I still like OS/2, and BeOS. They all have good points. But Apple and Sun are and should be leading the way. Microsoft has lost itself in a Byzantine bureaucracy, and Linux needs competition to stay sharp. (And OK, some bits of Vista are quite nice... just not all of them) - danielwsmithee, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Dude you guys Apple is a hardware AND software company. Saying they are one or the other of the two just doesn't make any sense. The majority of Apple income/profits definitely comes from hardware sales. The majority of it's work (Engineering Hours, R&D etc.) is in software. They recognize very well that their software work drives their hardware sales.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2BeOS rocked hard.
- kolop1, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2You keep living in your dream world. As long as people can buy a Windows PC for less than $500, Microsoft is not going anywhere. You people have been saying MS will fall for over 15 years. Give it up already. Now some no name company is going to do it within 10 years? lol
- chrisutley, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Microsoft will lose their desktop dominance one day, probably sooner than you think too. However, I'd wager they won't lose it to Apple or Linux. It will be a company you've never heard of, doing things in a way we've never dreamed of. I give Microsoft 10 more years, tops.
- kolop1, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3I read the article. But the forum post says Apple wins. Whice means who ever posted this didn't even read it. No where in the article does it say Apple wins. It says Apple may be the winner.
- schoate09, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4I stopped reading when they mentioned Rob Enderle.
- emjaymj, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5@johnlatane
You're missing the point completely. The functionality of Windows 98 is IRRELEVANT. Who cares whether Microsoft doesn't care what we use or if the court is forcing them to let us use the software of our choice. The end result is the same - Windows PC's built in the last 5 years allow you to use whatever software you choose and that's ALL that matters. Trying to make an argument for Apple based on Microsoft's history is foolish.
Guess what? It used to be for a long time that you couldn't even mess around with the hardware for macs and even peripherals were a bitch because they used proprietary connections. See how irrelevant that was? - ShogunWarPig, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Yea Apple, in terms of shear market dominance, will probably never catch up to Microsoft. That would only happen if Microsoft made some huge error on their part. That said who really cares. As long as these 3 companies are competing in somewhat related fields, product innovation is almost guaranteed no matter what company you align yourself with.
PS Google stock is by far the most remarkable of the three considering the time span and the already entrench market. - DSoM, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1take a look at that : http://digg.com/business_finance/The_WAR_Google_vs_Microsoft_vs_Apple_Stock_Price_in_last_5_years ;)
- kolop1, on 10/11/2007, -6/+7Ive been hearing Apple wins for at least 15 years now.
- wogboi, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Google buys software and renames it and lets people download it and use it for free
- betterth, on 10/11/2007, -7/+8@SpectreGT
Any information to back up that little claim?
This article claims http://blogs.business2.com/apple/2007/05/apple_laptops_g.html that they sold 10% of total sales in March '07. Perhaps you're confusing it.
As for this article. It's totally rubbish. Itunes is popular on windows because iPods are popular. Do you really freaking think people would be using Itunes instead of WMP if their iPod didn't come with iTunes? ...Riiiiight.
And as for Safari. Way to go Apple. Let's show the world how much better Apple is by releasing inferior to Microsoft software. Unfortunately for Safari, while it may have some eye candy, I'd use IE7 over it any day. Safari runs like ***** on Windows, isn't secure, hogs memory and crashes frequently.
Apple is clearly taking advantage of the situation right? Bundled software and pathetic betas. Good reporting, Forbes. - TheOther1, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4Lighten up, Francis!
- jeo77, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Right, because this war is destroying both Google and Microsoft in the processes. It's competition, it pushes both competing companies to be competitive and on the cutting edge of tech...
- Boomkin, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1@betterth
Spectre is probably thinking of the Bloomburg report from March, which doesn't include Dell's market share (no direct sales), and is only for the US. But it's a start at least.
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/13/npd-apples-march-2007-desktop-laptop-and-mp3-marketshare/ - lotus22, on 10/11/2007, -34/+34Windows Vista doesn't care what browser I use, I don't know what you're getting at and I'm not reading your page thread.
- KingLukas, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0mac fanboys WHERE ARE YOU?!?!?!?!?!?!
- yohojones, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2Apple is a MP3 maker who also makes a computer. It's illustruis past has no impact on the current market. Apple refuses to lower prices or release it's software to the mass market.
Have fun in your little corner apple. - tim620, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1I guess I need to add something like '/sarcasm' to my comments. I wasn't trying to dis Linux. I use Slackware and Ubuntu all the time (I've been using Slackware since 1994). I was just making fun of the comments above. I even added a smiley face (hoping someone would see the humor in it) and for some reason I'm the one that got dugg down.
Maybe I deserve to be dugg down for trying to be funny. Next time I'll be completely serious... :-| - BlitzacE, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1sounds like Ms versus sony nintendo wins
- Spuy767, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0I don't know about you guys, but this was up here on tuesday I think, I buried this ***** for being a dupe.
- Spuy767, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11) Learn to spell. 2) As many iPods as Apple has sold, it still makes more money off of computers. 3) Don't try to argue with me, I'm a shareholder and my quarterly report has all the figures to back up my claims.
- chrisutley, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2"Ive been hearing Apple wins for at least 15 years now."
More evidence that people don't even read (or worse yet comprehend?) stories before commenting. - 80hd, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0haha No kidding. Come on forbes, that pages was 2/3 pure ads before adblock kicked in.
- emjaymj, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1Digg down.
- KicktheDonkey, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1Sorry... It was episode 100, not 99.
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