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Mass-media mess-up: NBC doesn't get the iTunes store
tuaw.com — TUAW takes a look at how NBC doesn't realize just how good they've got it, or rather had it, with the iTunes store...
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- superpixel, on 10/10/2007, -5/+37Like a crazy girlfriend, wait until they come crawling back... then comes the stalking. And once NBC's Fall lineup fails miserably, along with whatever craptacular "player" they'll unveil some lazy day in May, Apple will have to put out a restraining order because they keep getting strange calls in the night.
- mikm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I wonder how much money NBC (in percentage of total profits) was making off the iTunes sales.
- Frozo, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13I think you assume too much of a show's success on iTunes downloads. If a show is good, it will do well. Face it, MOST people in America dont watch their TV via downloads. We are the minority. Not having it on iTunes will not make a show fail. It will, however, decrease their potential revenue – but that's an entirely different point from what you're making.
- fantasticFlan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3"If a show is good, it will do well."
If only, if only...- Frozo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Of course there are always exceptions (Firefly comes to mind). But I actually caught onto that show via the DVDs (which I assume has more of a connection with making a show popular than downloads).
- kelly, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Tell that to "The Office".
It's widely known that this show (or at least the American version of it) owes its popularity to iTunes. The show was not doing well and was destined to be canceled until it made its debut on iTunes.
Like it or not, iTunes is not only a huge money maker for the networks but also an even larger promotional resource.- Frozo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"widely known" is not a statistical proof. Im not saying its not true, but people post outlandish claims.
- fantasticFlan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3"If a show is good, it will do well."
- rpgmaker, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2It seems that what NBC did hurts you eh Apple fanboys (just an apple fanboys would buy an AppleTV)? Just get over it, BitTorrent it or whatever but stop bitching about it.
- noblepaladin, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Why do people assume that it is so bad for NBC to stop selling their shows on iTunes? It doesn't matter if they sell millions of copies, what matters to NBC is profit. Apple probably takes a significant cut of the profit, since they are the dominant distributor (kinda like the Walmart of online music and video). If NBC makes very little money from iTunes sales, then they are better off not selling it at all and forcing a fraction of those customers to watch the TV show live with advertisements (cause they can't see it otherwise), where they make money through the ads.
I'm pretty sure that NBC makes more money from people watching the show live rather than purchasing from iTunes (otherwise, they will have ads through all their shows saying "buy tonight's episode on iTunes"). While iTunes does have some really good uses for NBC, especially for new series where viewers start following halfway into the season because of good reviews, the existence of a cheap way to get commercial free episodes may hurt NBC too.
- Bartboy919, on 10/10/2007, -21/+9This NBC news is fine, whatever. But when anything is from TUAW, I instantly bury it. They are just a bunch of fanboy who would blow Jobs if they could.
- totorototoro, on 10/10/2007, -3/+13Exactly! I bet those TUAW guys have an APPLE LOGO as their DIGG avatar..thats just what a bunch of fanboys would do, right? :p
- GCarden, on 10/10/2007, -4/+11...says the guy with the Xbox logo on his avatar.
The only thing worse than a fanboy is the hypocrisy of another fanboy.- kingkilr, on 10/10/2007, -4/+6No, the only thing worse then a fanboy is a fanboy circle jerk.
- RadicalEdward, on 10/10/2007, -7/+2I would blow jobs for an iPod touch ahead of time. Who wouldn't?
p.s. if you said you wouldn't, your lieing.- arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5*lying
- knightboat, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5*you're
- reed311, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Thanks for the English lesson, guys, I'm sure everyone was having trouble understanding what he wrote.
- hansonc, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Just because we understand it doesn't mean we should put up with his mangling of the English language through laziness or ineptitude.
- reed311, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Thanks for the English lesson, guys, I'm sure everyone was having trouble understanding what he wrote.
- rpgmaker, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3You are gay.
- arbulus, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5*lying
- totorototoro, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9They got what they wanted...variable (read: higher) pricing, forced bundling, and stricter DRM. Whats not to like? :p
- Quix, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4"Whats not to like?"
Um, no paying customers? :)- totorototoro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3..besides that, I meant :p
- Altotus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Like Quix said. iTunes worked on 95% of the home computers out there plus had support for the (by far) dominant handheld player platform plus a bunch of other mobile devices. Amazon's Unbox throws away the handheld device support (no iPod, no Zune, etc), and by their own recokoning only works reliably on 50% of home computers.
Effectively, they are dumping all their customers and hope that a fraction of them will migrate to the new but less convenient service that has feer features at the same or higher cost.
- Quix, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4"Whats not to like?"
- dhjames, on 10/10/2007, -15/+9Umm...except the pricing is not in fact higher. In addition, now the large number of people who have Tivos can buy the shows (for the same price they were) and watch them on their TV as opposed to the 5 people on the planet who own Apple TVs and could do that with the iTunes store.
- sholt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+16...because your tivo can't already record the office?
- colincornaby, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4God forbid NBC make a deal with both Apple and Amazon...
- B1663r, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Correct me if I am wrong, but that was part of the problem. NBC wanted to share their episodes next day with other providers but the contract stipulated that new episods were exclusive for a little while.
- jaganm, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3Now everyone will just go and download it via BitTorrent. Trust the big media companies to screw themselves over and over
- mikm, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Last I checked, NBC was doing fine before they started selling their shows on iTunes. In other words, they're not going to lose enough profit to care.
- KnightWhoSaysNi, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3The Office was actually doing quite poorly until it was posted on iTunes.
(Of course, correlation doesn't imply causation)
- KnightWhoSaysNi, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3The Office was actually doing quite poorly until it was posted on iTunes.
- Enuratique, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Sadly, we are the minority who not only download off BitTorrent but are willing to re-encode it so it can play on our media devices. In 10 years, that may change - people are getting more and more tech savvy by the day. The single biggest thing, IMHO, that would advance BitTorrent and really scare the networks is a point and click style wizard for acquiring and re-encoding the content. Though I'm sure such software would just awaken a sleeping giant's legal team.
- mikm, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Last I checked, NBC was doing fine before they started selling their shows on iTunes. In other words, they're not going to lose enough profit to care.
- h3smith, on 10/10/2007, -4/+4I had no issue paying $30 for the season of The Office, I actually preferred it compared to watching it on the TV. The $30 was nothing and for 20 episodes I couldn't care less. But, I would not pay more than that. Now I will finally figure out how to find them through other means.
Sorry NBC, your shows aren't worth that much money to me to watch commercial free. So you go from making good money off a show at a reasonable price to making no money off the show and people finding it for free through other methods. BRAVO!- B1663r, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Well just a guess here... Rather than saying at the end of the episode "download this episode at iTunes!" they will simply replace it with "download this episode at Unbox!". As extra revenue, Amazon will be able to provide links to all the product placement merchandise as well.
- mikm, on 10/10/2007, -14/+12For *****'s sake, how many stories do we need about the NBC-iTunes thing?
- ScottDaMan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5About 50 more..
- ahhell, on 10/10/2007, -15/+11Holy ***** just let it go.
How many more damn times does this NBC/iTunes crap need to be posted on DIGG? - revjustin2, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9I have been watching The Office on Netflix. You get so many hours of viewing of any of their online offerings included in your monthly fee. I guess in some ways I am paying to watch it, but I am sure getting a lot more out of my 15 bucks a month than a season's worth of television shows.
- Langford, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4NBC may have lofty plans of their own, and they don't want to support potentially competing services.
- UrbanOne, on 10/10/2007, -5/+8NBC must have taken a stupid pill. Last fall, they made great decisions and partnerships, and were extremely aware of all their opportunities. They even moved the NBC peacock logo from the bottom right of the screen to the bottom left, to be visible when their content showed up elsewhere... They leveraged their channels, moving and repeating content on the fly.
Say what you want about Apple & Steve Jobs & iTunes, but, if you're not with them, you're with the... oh, wait, wrong speach.
Anyway, I think it was a bad decision. - Wilddigi, on 10/10/2007, -7/+1NBC doesn't want iTunes, ***** THEM
- SirBotchness, on 10/10/2007, -7/+4oh look, it came from an apple blog, wooooooo
- digger109, on 10/10/2007, -10/+1apple fan boys at work on digg too ? Screw the itunes store. Overcharging mo-fo's. Even though I am not a big fan of micro$oft DRM, anything to grind Steve Jobs' "my way or highway" nose to the asphalt is good enough for me.
- VitriolAndAngst, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5NBC was making 33,000% more off the Web sales then they are the without the web sales.
Of course, this could be larger -- what is a few million times Zero?
The idiocy of these people is astounding -- nobody is buying re-runs when they are free on TV. The convenience of buying them off the web is for people who missed the show or can't get the show.
If you has like Business 101 skills -- you would set up the NEW outlet BEFORE burning the f'ing bridge. I'm not bothered that they've taken their few great shows off of iTunes -- I'm bothered that they thought their content was going to wag-the-dog and they wanted to charge DVD prices for TV shows, and then they fricken' ruin the deal like some idiots before they secured the new outlet.
Whether or not you thought you could get more per show (you can't, but let's not keep them from a learning experience), you don't use the business model of " Ready, Fire, Aim" you don't CLOSE a way to sell something BEFORE finding the new way.
If I were Amazon, I'd be raising the price right now. I'm guessing a few consultants are going to lose some jobs (for cover, if nothing else) and then they are going to start whining to Apple to take them back. Then try a really stupid move like suing Apple because they had a contract. Without looking at their contract, I'm sure that NBC probably broke it.
This is like Bush-stupid.
Can you get any dumber? Can I get a job as a suite as a CEO of NBC and just tell them; "That's really dumb -- don't do it. Now where is my golden parachute?"- mikm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1NBC probably had a contract with Apple that they would sell their (downloadable) shows exclusively with iTunes. If you had Contract Law 101 skills, you would have guessed that.
- B1663r, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Also they went live with Unbox like a day after their content was pulled from iTunes, so... Obviously this has been in the works for some time.
- dvdrtrgn, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5"Bush-stupid" -- catchy meme. Let's roll with that one.
- VitriolAndAngst, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Hey, I'm a subversive. I'm trying to make that a catch phrase.
;-)
- VitriolAndAngst, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Hey, I'm a subversive. I'm trying to make that a catch phrase.
- my8bird, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1I hate itunes. Use rockbox and doppler. Don't pay for cable and then turn around and buy the same program. Get tivo, mythtv or something like them and get the season for only the price of the system.
- Refrag, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Pay for cable TV? People do that still?
- archer75, on 10/10/2007, -5/+7***** itunes. You are all suckers for buying low res DRM shows anyways.
- Vtorch, on 10/10/2007, -4/+4Do people actually have to digg a Apple Blog and use it as a credible source? People, it's just a blog.
NBC makes more money from advertising rather than selling small sized video to play on an iPod. Plus, iTunes content doesn't even do HD yet. PLUS, you can watch their shows online. Why would anyone (who is not an die hard Apple fanboy) want to spend x amount of dollars to download lower quality content when they can buy the season DVD?
You people think like children or naive college students. - Stormwave0, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4I'm pretty sure NBC made the decision knowing all the consequences. After all, they are a multibillion dollar organization. They're not stupid - despite what all these crazy commentators are making the company out to be.
Switch to capturing with programs like EyeTV? Try explaining that to your average iTunes purchaser and they'll look back at you and blink. iTunes is simple, capturing shows and removing commercials manually is not. - reed311, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Ok, you guys have run this story into the ground. Just keep downloading your torrents and pretend that you were actually paying for those shows to begin with and that the small amount of revenue NBC was getting from iTunes is actually going to hurt them.
- VitriolAndAngst, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Not the point. It's a market in it's infancy. They will make a lot less money on UnBox because people won't be flocking to get content for $5 a pop that plays on one computer.
Wait until iPod announcements later today and tell me that people aren't going to be looking to us iTunes more for video.
- VitriolAndAngst, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Not the point. It's a market in it's infancy. They will make a lot less money on UnBox because people won't be flocking to get content for $5 a pop that plays on one computer.
- geekee, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2iTunes sucks. I don't want an iPod and I don't want to deal with a company that refuses to support any other portable media player.
- Wilddigi, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0Are you like 5?
- VitriolAndAngst, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Yeah, Apple should spend millions developing an infrastructure, and then just hand it to someone else who competes for a bargain MP3 experience.
- MattH, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2The networks and Movie studios don't want to fall into the same trap the Record labels did and fall into the monopoly that is iTunes .
The networks are getting smart and dividing online content distribution amongst a number of distributors who they trust will protect their copyright online and will pay for the bandwidth so no one distributor can fully dominate the market like iTunes has .
Amazon Unbox also sells directly into TIVO so this puts a huge dent into the market for Apple TV .- mikm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1There was a market for AppleTV?!
I kid, I kid.
- mikm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1There was a market for AppleTV?!
- writeman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0NBC made the right move. They really have nothing to lose at this point. Yes, a lot of people download NBC shows and want to pay a reasonable price, but that's practically FOUND money for NBC -- they make their money in on-air advertising -- so they can afford to gamble a little by telling iTunes to screw.
- ArthurSucks, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1A lot of people are saying "itunes sucks" and "apple sucks" yadda yadda...
As far as I know apple's itunes store is the ONLY legal place to buy shows. What legal option is better? - VitriolAndAngst, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Here, Now I've spent 5 minutes with this topic and I'm already smarter than the execs at NBC. Look at these two posts on the TUAW.com website and note the problem with NBC's decision;
"
...
8. The real stupidity of NBC's move is that they've cut themselves off from the actual devices that play the content. Amazon's Unbox doesn't play on iPods -- and they represent 85% or more of the portable video playing devices out there. The remaining devices that play video don't all support Amazon's format either. Good luck selling to the 5% of the portable market that's left.
"
and this;
"...
I just read an article on ars technica (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070904-after-ditching-apple-nbc-signs-up-with-the-small-guy-amazon-unbox.html) regarding the new deal NBC just made with Amazon's Unbox. Get this: no mixing of accounts; only one account per PC (it's Windows only); that's the tougher DRM these jerks wanted!
..."
Contract ends in December. No word that I've seen if the contract with iTunes was exclusive. It doesn't seem that Apple forces that on many companies -- but I wouldn't know. - bingobongony, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0yeah..an unbiased article from a website that masturbates to images of Steve Jobs nightly.
- slider121, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3"iTunes Store's raison d'etre "[The iTunes Store] is designed to drive sales of Apple devices at the expense of those who create the content that make these devices worth buying."
If there was no DRM, then I could play the file on a Zune, Creative player, or and other portable player, not to mention Linux. NBC gave Apple the market share by forcing DRM. Now by going to unbox there forcing iPod owners to seek other means to obtain the shows. I for one just capture the series on my mythbox from the HD feed and convert it myself, but most users will hit bit-toorent and NBC gets $0 from it. This is just stupid on NBC's part.
-- can you tell I HATE DRM!!! - VitriolAndAngst, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1As I posted before... wait until todays announcements.
From the Steve-note today;
"We started with just 200k songs, but we have over 6m songs in every single one of those stores. Millions ahead of anyone else. We've become the number 3 music retailer in the US -- behind Wal-Mart and Best Buy, ahead of Amazon and Target." Over 550 shows, sold over 95m shows, 125k podcasts. "This is amazing material, it's free, and over 25k are video podcasts."
"This last statistic blew my mind: in the US of all the music releases in 2006, 32% were digital-only releases. They weren't released on a CD. Live concerts, independents. Look how far we've come. A THIRD of the music released in this country was digital only."
>> I have to admit that I have Apple Stock. But I didn't sell at $150, because I think that we will see these numbers in video very shortly.
And to disagree with Engaget -- I think the StarBucks announcement is a bit more significant than they do. StarBucks is everywhere. If a person has wi-fi at home (and if they are the consumer who plunks down $350 on a personal music player -- they do), and wi-fi at work. The pause inbetween where they can also do everything on the iPod touch is at a StarBucks. There isn't much need for 3G if most places where you would stop have wi-fi. The icon to use StarBucks appears dynamically when you get to the StarBucks -- take note of the dollar signs that brings up to advertisers. Think of the integration of getting the song that StarBucks is playing. Forget that you might not care about their coffee or their music. Think Movie Theaters -- do you want to download and keep this movie you just watched? Click here. Impulse buys. You go on the plane, and instead of that crappy headset; "Do you want to watch one of the following shows?" This is media placement and it can be branded by every brick and mortar that want's access to (at a rough estimate) 200 million iPod users (taking the 600,000 ipods and dividing by 3 because some people have destroyed their ipod or have more than one).
The 8Gig iPhone is going to be $400 bucks.
Again. Casual video viewing will be on the iPod in the very near future. People have less time at home to watch TV. More time with the iPod. Content is shifting and NBC is going to go back to Apple and TRY to re-sign for next year.
I guarantee it. - DevlinD, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1So...what exactly is NBC gaining out of selling their content through Amazon?? I just don't see it, sure the pricing may be higher (haven't verified this yet) and the DRM is tighter...how does this translate into higher revenue? Revenue comes from sales, iTunes has the sales and the user base, Amazon might as well have nothing compared to that.
Doesn't NBC remember that the iPod was pretty much ubiquitous even before video content became available? What is NBC supposed to do when the previous purchasers of their content (through iTunes) no longer have a portable device to put their media on? The selling point of content on the iPod is that it is mobile, so now NBC has to find another device on which it can make its media portable, and then hope that said device is a real iPod killer, or else they would actually make less money than they are now with iTunes.
I dunno...Apple owns the portable media market, what's the use in crying about it. MS was the only legitimate contender that could provide the full offering in a similar manner to the iPod/iTunes and they completely sunk that ship with the failure of the Zune. As much as the media companies hate it, they don't have the pull in this arena that they do with their bread and butter strengths.
Google, YouTube, Facebook, iTunes...all these services have one thing in common...they create nothing original but provide a user friendly one stop shop so that you can find what you are looking for. iTunes is an exception here because they do in fact provide something original, the iPod. NBC walking away isn't going to make the iPod any less popular, its just going to drive users to "illegal" means to put the content on their iPod.
Stupid incumbent old ass companies...when will you learn.
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