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247 Comments
- Drealoth, on 10/12/2007, -16/+126Life is too short for cheap wine.
- DIGGerPhelpsND, on 10/12/2007, -9/+95It's called the Mac "Pro."
Mini might be your price range. - aeiou, on 10/12/2007, -9/+75Not really ..... a little wine is actually good for you
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+71"Goddamn when did people get so ***** stupid?"
i dont know, whats your birthday? - halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -6/+37Then why did you click on the link?
Seriously, why?
There are PLENTY of articles on Digg that I have absolutely no interest in, are dupes or Id just rather avoid.
What do I do about them?
I don't click the links.
Is it really that hard to avoid that which you do not wish to see? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -17/+45you get what you pay for..
- OrangeTide, on 10/12/2007, -4/+27Apple likely has a good idea of what the market wants. People either want a simple non-expandable computer that sits on a desk and does it's thing (iMac, Mac Mini, MacBook). Or people want a "professional" computer that is expandable and powerful. (Mac Pro, MacBook Pro). (the MacBook Pro has an ExpressCard slot, Mac Pro has four 16x PCI-e slots).
I think most people who buy Dells don't install a bunch of PCI cards in them. They just use the onboard audio/network/usb/firewire. If anything is going to get upgraded I think it would be the video cards.
Macs aren't gaming systems so upgrading your video card is probably not a popular thing to do. Macs have the hardware power to be gaming systems, but they typically are not used as such. The way publishing works for the Mac market makes me skeptical that there will be a wide selection of games any time soon. - cmiller1, on 10/12/2007, -10/+33Well you PC fanboys obviously do because you have been claiming that the reason you aren't taking our computer buying advice is because "not everyone is rich enough for a mac" and a million other excuses which we already know aren't true.
- politech, on 10/12/2007, -9/+30The author says it's a $1000 dollar difference between the Dell and the Apple, but the "Throw in" Dell monitor makes up a big chunk of that. An Apple branded 20 inch monitor is going to set you back around $700, a 17 inch at least $250. I don't think there is a 19 inch model Apple brand monitor.
Making Apple still the cheaper of the two, just not $1000 cheaper.
The conclusion of this article is somewhat accuracy challenged, but it is still food for thought that an Apple machine is currently competitive price-wise with a similar PC. Competition is good. - neocitron, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25interesting... the Quadro FX by nVidia used in the Dell is around $1,300 alone going by places like Newegg... the nVidia 7300GT used in the Mac Pro is around $150
- maninblac1, on 10/12/2007, -16/+36Macworld, Biased?
Inquirer, Accurate?
Macworld i might believe, but never the inquirer, the inquirer has to be the worst source of information permitted on this website. - Quix, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23"sorry, I fail to see why I should care about this"
Sorry, I fail to see why you should comment about this. - noseeme, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21I'm surprised that Dell hasn't adjusted their prices to beat the Mac Pro, it seems like something they would do.
- NerdyNinja, on 10/12/2007, -10/+29@AppleOSux
Die, troll. I see you entirely too often. Just look at your profile page...
http://digg.com/users/AppleOSuX/commented
All you do is respond to Apple stuff. Nobody cares that you hate anything and everything Apple. Maybe if you had some semblance of reasoning behind your assertions, people might take you seriously. But no, you display behavior reminiscent of racism, only towards a computing system. Now THAT'S pathetic. Seriously dude, just skip over stories about Mac and grow up a little - not everybody has to confirm that your preferences and opinions are "right" - it's a question of what different people value, and you can't change that. - dongiaconia, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21I believe it is because Dell commands the highest percentage of computer sales. Something like 40%. So, since Apple's market share increased last quarter while Dell's market share decreased, I think it is at least a fair comparison.
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22"@AppleOSux
Die, troll. I see you entirely too often. Just look at your profile page...
http://digg.com/users/AppleOSuX/commented
All you do is respond to Apple stuff. "
That's what the "Block User" button is for, dude. - BlueDjinn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Heya...I'm the guy who runs the SystemShootouts.org site which got Digged--and torn apart in the comments--a few days ago.
Just wanted to reiterate that yes, I've updated my own comparison to note the Dell's theoretical 64 GB RAM capacity and a few other items folks were griping about.
Also, again, just to repeat, if you take the display out of the Mac Pro's configuration (making it tower vs. tower only), and replace it with 3 yr. AppleCare (to match Dell's 3 yr. warranty), I still ended up with a $450 advantage for the Mac.
Of course, Dell has changed their specials since then (when I re-checked last night, the Precision 690's base price was $200 *higher* than my original config, but also includes the 19" LCD), so there you go... - 1sbr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18Why isn't anyone else pointing this out. I did a quick search online and found this:
http://www.epinions.com/Graphics_Cards--reviews--nvidia_quadro_fx_3450
the cheapest FX 3450 is $810
The cheapest GeForce 7300 GT is
http://ostg.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=20289662
$119
That looks like a major chunk of the difference right there. Throw in the LCD and some cupons and your pretty much even. - PhillyMJS, on 10/12/2007, -7/+22Actually, a real gamer will probably build his own system. A poseur gamer will just buy a tricked-out Dell.
- MicrowavedH2o, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21I say screw the comparisons as well...
I'd pay more for a superior product if I had to anyway! - BlueDjinn, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19I get this gripe all the time--"I can build a killer system for less than Apple *or* Dell!!" etc etc.
I've never understood why this keeps being brought up. Yes, it's true, but so what? I can save $25 on an oil change by doing it myself as well; does that mean that people should never compare Jiffy Lube to Pennzoil?
Yes, OF COURSE you can build a system far cheaper if you do it yourself, as long as you a) know how to do so; b) don't mind spending the time to shop, assemble, screw in, install, etc; and c) don't mind not having a specific company to call for tech support if needed. What build-it-yourselfers need to understand is that the vast majority of people DON'T want to do it themselves; that's the nature of a service economy. Nothing wrong with doing so, but it doesn't make comparing pre-assembled brands against each other a bad thing either. - JQP123, on 10/12/2007, -23/+35"Life is too short for cheap wine."
Some of my friends used to say that ... until I proved to them that they couldn't tell the difference.
$5 is a bit extreme but according to the results of my blind taste tests, the typical self proclaimed wine connoissieur can't pick the $30-40 cabernet out from a group of say 3 alternatives at $8-10. Especially if I get to pick the labels. - betterth, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19@haleyscomet
No offense, but you're obviously not a gamer.
"Well, the hard core gamers are unlikely to buy a Mac Mini, with it's 32 Meg GPU, but why would a gamer avoid a Mac outside of that?"
1) Because they're much more expensive than building one and buying parts off New Egg. Much, much, much more expensive.
2) Because of the expandability and being able to swap processors, cards, go SLI, go Crossfire, go Quad SLI, go dual core (if they go skt939 and don't already). etc etc.
3) Because Mac + WinXP for BootCamp is even more rediculously expensive.
etc, etc
"Are the video cards in the entire line underpowered? I've seen the ability to boot XP mentioned as a good reason to buy a Mac in a number of places."
Yes, they really are. The MacPro is the FIRST mac to support a decent high end card, the X1900 XT. First off, this is a middle-grade high end card. And, it's an ATI.
Most gamers building these days are going with nVidia, simply because they have the price/performance crown.
Not only that, but a 7900GT (a kick-ass card, mind you), will set you back $200-$250. That 7900GT will outperform every card the Mac offers, except maybe the 1900XT (pro only) or the Quaddro (Pro only). I mean seriously, Mac offers the 7300GT.. the economy, budget line. The let's turn the settings down to low card. Because that card sure as hell won't be popping even 20fps in Oblivion.
"The ability to run my old Win9x games in Parallels with excellent performance was a major reason for my purchase of a Mac."
I'm sure "Oregon Trail" (tm) and "Kings Quest VII" are great games, hell I personally love them. But gamers who spend $2000 on building their own computer expect 60+ FPS in Battlefield 2, FEAR, Half-Life2, PREY, and want to be able to play Crysis when it comes out.
And simply put, you can't on a mac. For $2000 you can not be a bleeding edge gamer on a Mac. You can't. End of story.
"Why do you see gamers buying a PC instead of a Mac and a copy of XP? In the example sited above, a Mac and an XP license is still cheaper than a comparably equipped Dell."
For $2500, where the Pro's are, any true gamer laughs at both companies. Do you freaking understand how much computer you can get at $2500?!
The nvidia 7950GX2 (hell get 2!), and X2 4600+ (or go Core2!), with 4GB of Corsair XMS low latency, a terrabyte of storage and a good 19 or 21" low latency LCD. Throw in a nice Razer mouse and Logitech keyboard, some 5.1 Logitechs, and you're still below $2500. Probably a good bit below $2500.
And you've got a helluva lot more computer than a MacPro or a Dell *****. - Ireland, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18You guys do know the "Inquirer" is not the "Enquirer" right? http://www.google.com/images?q=enquirer&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
- austinshea, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14the graphics cards are different in the comparison.
dell - Quadro FX 3450 - lowest price on pricewatch $1089.00
apple - geforce 7300 gt - lowest price on pricewatch $77.76
I love apple, and I'm writing this right now on my iMac core duo, but that just stood out to me when I was reading the report. - cubeeggs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10"Dempsey" is not "Woodcrest".
- PhillyMJS, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14That's funny, for years Dell prices were THE standard of comparison when PowerPC-based Macs were on the wrong end of the comparison and it was Windows fanbois doing the comparing. But now that the price comparison is on the Mac's favor suddenly "Dell is one of the most overpriced desktop makers"?
Hmm. Does anyone else hear the sound of a goalpost moving?
~Philly - Quix, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Ah CBTF, Master of the Obvious. You can also make your own sandwich cheaper than going out, but I'll bet you still go out for lunch a lot, eh? Hmmm.
I've built my own PCs before. Yes, it's cheaper. It's also a pain in the butt to research all the components, price search everything, order all the stuff from different vendors, then put it all together, hoping you don't have a single defective component that will put the entire process on hold.
I'm done building PCs. Time is as valuable as money these days. I'll pay the extra $$$ for a well-built Mac I can just pull out of the box and power on, thanks.
Oh, BTW, my home-built PCs didn't run BOTH Windows and OS X... - threemagic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@OrangeTide
Video cards help with a lot of things, not just games. Apple has the option to add powerful cards in their Mac Pro.
I think what most people are saying is, you can play games with a mac (windows runs on it) and to have the best of both worlds would be nice. However, they want a tower without the XEON processor, just a dual core will do. And the same expandability. Without the Xeon's you can expect the price to be 1/2 to 1/3 what it is now and still get a beast of a machine.
I, myself, would love a core duo intel box with the ATI 1900 in it. The mac mini and iMac isn't enough for some folks and the Mac Pro is too much... there is a MISSING LINK! - deepdish, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Why is it so painful to believe one company has a better price than another company on one item this one time?
With competition between Dell and Apple on hardware, I am sure in the future they will swap places back and forth on best bang for the buck.
What is difficult for people is the myth is over that Apple hardware is always over priced. Notice I said "always". I am sure Apple will be overpriced on future items. - isellmacs, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12If you're a gamer, you'll buy a nicer system for a fraction of the price from somewhere other than Dell. The Apple vs Dell comparisons are just that: Apple vs Dell.
The REAL conclusion of the article: Yes, the MacPro, under certain circumstances, is more affordable than a Dell.
This isn't Mac vs PC, this is 2 brand names (Apple vs Dell) Part of the whole "PC" thing is that you don't have vendor lock in, where you are forced to buy Apple or nothing. In the PC world, it isn't Dell or nothing.
True gamers use custom built machines. As an FYI, Apple has higher margins the more expensive their systems, but not like Dell, they have MASSIVE margins on their high end stuff, Dell loves to rape businesses and power users.
This Article really drives home how overpriced high end Dells are, and not much else. - tuartboy, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17Well, then you need to buy 2 OSs with the Dell to make it fair.
- tomisina, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17HOLY ***** I honestly think this is the 6th time I've seen an article to this effect... we get it... you can compare spec. Why is this going to get ~400 diggs?
- tuartboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Yeah, I hear every app runs great on a beowulf cluster...
- JasonPrini, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17The free LCD is a 19". Check newegg, LCD's this size start at $190 retail.
Plus, most people already have a monitor they can use with the Mac Pro.
I'd get a Mac Pro with a couple of 24" Dell widescreens....I'm sure Dell makes more on displays than on computers anyway. Win-Win-Win :P - maninblac1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9It all depends on what you do with your computer.
I ran a 1980 IBM XT till 1994.
Then a P2 with 128MB of ram in 94 till 2002.
It's all in what you're willing to live with. - mabino, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7All of these discussions about which is cheaper miss the real news of the Mac Pro launch in particular and the Intel Macs in general. Namely, Apple is now tangibly price competitive with its competition in ways it has never been before.
- dohidied, on 10/12/2007, -0/+72 Woodcrests cost $1600 by themselves.
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=202730474&SearchEngine=PriceGrabber&SearchTerm=202730474&Type=PE&Category=Comp&Gad=0&dcaid=15890 - artman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Great for you Dr. Frankenstein. Really. I do mean that. You can build your own computer and choose the hardware, price and the quality of those parts. I cannot. I will not. I am not a technical person. I want quality and will pay a premium for that. My experience with Windows PCs (Tandy, Gateway, Dell, HP, etc.) have always shown me that you get what you pay for (cheap). I have owned 3 Macs and they never let me down either with hardware or software. If and when you can build a Windows LAPTOP, I will give you a call.
/rant over - Brutusfly, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7expose on all counts Mr. MacOSSux! You said: "I'll tell you why most people don't like the Mac OS: It's all flash and no substance. For instance: You have a really nice looking dock that does all sorts of animations and stuff. That's great. How about giving me something like a "Start Menu" so I can hierarchically organize my 200+ programs?"
The dock does that AND you can even drag your apps where you want them, not just the shortcuts.
"The glass buttons and all that are beautiful, but you can't even cut and paste files in the Mac Finder (you can only copy/paste or drag). "
Why click several times to cut and paste when you can use exposé or pop-open folders to do it in one smooth motion? I think you need to spend more time on OS X next time before youcriticizee. I REALLY use both. I enjoy both. I prefer OS X. - shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -8/+14to the above,
If you aren't a dumbass, you won't be buying a Macbook or iMac for "media production."
a lot like you wouldn't buy the crap 500 dollar PC either. you were saying? - Quix, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Fortunately for us Mac users, "Moron" is higher (much higher) on the IQ scale than "Habitual Digg Apple-Bashing Troll." At least you actually spelled "moron" right, so you're one up on most your comrades, MobileHavoc.
- MicrowavedH2o, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11heard of bootcamp???
Oh, I guess not. - KyleMistry, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Would you rather we compared them to the ~$6000 Alienware with the same specs?
Okay. - Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Wrong Chips, Biotch!
- soopafly, on 10/12/2007, -11/+17"My new system is a sweet Athlon 64 X2 system that I built for under $500"
Oh how I love it when you PC weenies say stuff like that. - Quix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"Are you seriously so lazy that you'll buy a prebuilt just because you don't want to waste a couple of minutes saving money?" - betterth
"Couple of minutes?" Hilarious. Well betterth, if that's all the effort you put into it, then my sympathies (or congratulations?) to you. I tend to be what can be called a more "educated buyer." I know that term just threw you off, but try to stay with me here. The last PC I built I probably spent at the minimum 50 HOURS of research time. First you have to pick a processor. Read reviews, benchmarks, forums. Analyze. Decide. Done. Next comes the motherboard. Hmmm, which of the dozens out there work with the processor I picked? Now, which of those is the best? Read reviews, benchmarks, forums. Analyze. Decide. Now move on to RAM. Then video card. Case. Power supply. Fans.
OK, a month later I finally have my component list. Now I need to go price search everything. Then order it. And I haven't even built anything yet! Hmmm, on second thought, that 50 hours was probably far understated.
Now if you live in your parents' basement, need every extra dime for pizza at the LAN gaming party next weekend, and work at Old Navy (which you might, who's to say), the money you save by building your own might be worth it. Not to me. Not anymore. My 20" Intel iMac was great straight out of the box, cost me a few hundred bucks more than an equivalent PC, and was worth EVERY PENNY. I unloaded my latest home-built PC and it will be my last.
"I've gotten prebuilt ***** that doesn't work straight out of the box"
Then stop buying Dells. - Quix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"Must have hit a nerve - such a backlash." - mobilehavoc
Let's see, come into an Apple digg thread, call Apple users "morons," then act surprised at the response and attribute it to rabid "fanboyism." Yep, Troll 101 executed to perfection. Brilliantly played. Your mentors (iSEPIC, flag564, jasqwerty, and the rest of the gang) will be proud of you, mobilehavoc. You've come a long way in a short time. - shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7uh, the only Macs that are "locked out" of current OS are the pre-PowerPC macs. The first G3s came out in '98 I believe and still can run Tiger.
Sounds like your friends made a pretty naive purchase. pebkac FTL.
Plus, that unreasonable backwards comptibility demand is a major reason why there is STILL no vista.
Yeah, I'd rather not wait 6 years for an OS upgrade. -
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