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Macbook Random Shutdown Problem Solved At Last!

maba.wordpress.com — Apple's forums are full of people searching for a solution, now it appears that an IT Engineer from Munich, Germany has found the source of the issue.

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  • Ireland, on 10/12/2007, -24/+19Hardware 1.0 boys!
    • mfratt, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14I owned a MacBook for about four months before selling it (I deicided a Thinkpad was better for me), but I never experiencd even one random shutdown. The MacBook, imo, is a great piece of hardware. It could no doubt use some improvements, but a good entry-level, inexpensive laptop none the less (I think I use "inexpensive" fairly liberally, since my Thinkpad that I bought after it was more than twice as much - but well worth it)
    • emorphien, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22Agreed with you on Thinkpads vs Macbooks. Better hardware, I'd love to dualboot OSX and XP Pro on my T43p... unfortunately that's really not possible, legally speaking.
    • dimplemonkey, on 10/12/2007, -9/+15You mean Hardware 101?
    • asdffds, on 10/12/2007, -17/+9Double standards anyone?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT3_tiQZwwA
    • Sefirosu, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7Thinkpads have always been "tanks" for as far as I can remember. We bought only Thinkpads at work before upper management forced us to switch to Dells... Well, no comments...

      I prefer Macs though, but that's me.
    • emorphien, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9@asdffds

      Haha! When was that even true!? Windows restarting and locking up like that? Maybe in the 1995 - Windows ME days. Mac OS was pretty much the same way back then. Can't say it happens with either anymore.

      These ads just keep getting further and further out there. Good marketing though, I suppose. Some people fall for it/believe it.
    • Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Hardware 1.0? OEMs have been making Intel notebooks for years. There is no excuse.
    • rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Even before they got sold to Lenovo I would never again buy a Thinkpad after my terrible experiences my IBM's support (or more specifically, lack of support).

      I think the random shutdown thing would have been very frustrating for those effected. I'm not sure how that would compare to the shody IBM workmanship with things like cracks in the lid which get made worse by opening and closing, which was my final straw with the Thinkpad. But anyone effected by a serious defect like this has my sympathy.

      Hopefully the problem is something as simple as this, and hopefully there is an easy solution.
    • emorphien, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@rickcarson

      I won't digg you down because your experience is real, and important to be noted. But have you ever heard of a lemon? Honda may make reliable cars, that doesn't mean that one particular sample can't just be a pile of crap. Same goes for Thinkpads, which before (and after) the Lenovo takeover have had a very good reputation and they've deserved it.

      At the same time, people pretty universally may hate HP notebooks, and from what I've seen it's been with good reason. But I do know a couple people who have had theirs for many years without any troubles.
    • meggani, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Lenovo doesn't have great tech support, at least not with their entry-level laptops. Plus hardware wise.. My family has gotten three thinkpads in the past couple of years, both pre-lenovo and post-lenovo, and all of them have had trouble. My t-60 is only a week old and I already want to strangle it. Ah well, perhaps we are just unlucky.
    • rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@emorphien
      I was told by a certified IBM repairer that the trouble I had with the cracked casing around the screen was very common.

      "But have you ever heard of a lemon?"

      Well yes, that was part of my point. Some people are very quick to point their finger and say things like 'all version 1 hardware from Apple is crap'. When in reality there are only one or two isolated instances of something.

      But when someone who makes their livelihood off IBM tells you that IBMs are crap... that is more worrying.

      Let's put this into context with some of the recent comments about Dell, where people have been saying that Dell 5 years ago had good quality, but the standards have subsequently fallen. Whereas other people say that things are fine.

      It could be that for the top end of the range Lenovo and Dell are fine, using good components if you are prepared to splash the cash. But at the budget end of the market I think that they may be cutting a few too many corners... digging just a bit too deep into the bargain bin as it were.
  • virtualball, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8Incase people dont want to go thru the chain of links (Ok...2 lol) to get to the answer, you need to put insulating scotch tape on your censor cable.

    Dugg!
    • zodo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9To give more detail, it's a wire that gets melted by a heatsink, and due to heat expansion and compression, will only short out on the heatsink when hot.
    • HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -18/+4There's nothing in there that gets hot enough to melt the insulation off a wire. That includes the heatsink.

      I know that stuff gets hot, but that insulation wouldn't melt at the temps reached inside. The melt temp would be well over 100C.
    • TheReport, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5"To give more detail, it's a wire that gets melted by a heatsink, and due to heat expansion and compression, will only short out on the heatsink when hot."

      OK i need some more info on this because from personal expeience and from looking for my own solutions for my Macbook fiasco the heat issue is just more babble amongst a sea of great theories but nothing more. I still believe its the logicboard issue. I did the whole heat test. First I executed all the basic proceedures, repaired disc, repaired permissions, reset the PRAM, reset the PMU, and deleted the powermanagent.plist. I was still getting random shutdowns, I noticed more times than others but I never saw a pattern then i installed CoreDuoTemp and went into the terminal and ran 'yes > /dev/null yes > /dev/null' and proceeded to get the processor working at 100% getting the heat of my Macbook to nearly 190 degrees Fareinheit with no shutdowns. I tried 4 more times and nothing, I let it sit for 15 minutes while the fans blasted away. Later that day I was randomly scowering the web and without notice and very minimal heat, it shutdown. The last time I dealt with it before I decided it was proabably wise to just take it in for repair was when all it did was turn on with a gray screen slowly forming vertical rainbow colored lines across my screen. I knew at that point I was in D.S....that stand for deep *****
    • zybch, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3OMG!! You said 'macbook' and 'fiasco' in the same sentence!!!
      Careful, you'll be getting a brick through your window if you keep up with this sort of blasphemy!
    • tuxuser, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1***** a think pad.
  • Vanquish2005, on 10/12/2007, -34/+1umm its been fixed for about a month now. late news.
    • crammaz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21Actually no it hasn't been solved for over a month.... trust me I have first hand expierence ;(
    • newAccount, on 10/12/2007, -11/+4man why do people buy apple crap?
    • rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Maybe people buy Apple crap because having a random shutdown turns out to be fractionally better than having a hot plastic thing burst into flames when it is resting just above your crotch? :D

      Although, if given the option of having burning plastic and metal poured into my crotch, or scalding hot coffee, at least with the plastic you'd have a souvenir to explain to the nephews and nieces why you never had any kids of your own...
    • GiggleStick, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@rickcarson

      Your homework is to google the following words together:

      mac sony fire recall
  • tacojohn, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I don't think this is the answer- My macbook had the random shutdown syndrome about a month ago. I took it to the Apple store and the genius reset the PRAM and re-seated my RAM- I haven't had a random shut down since.

    I think there are several culprits for this issue.
    • Terc, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11could be have nudged the sensor cable just enough that it hasn't been a problem again yet?
    • acetv, on 10/12/2007, -9/+13"I took it to the Apple store and the genius reset..."

      I read the "genius" in that sentence as sarcasm...
    • dimplemonkey, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. Mac Books can also have the processor removed from them. Could it be that they reseated this as well? I'm going to try this with someone's MacBook tomorrow since they are having the same problem. I hope this works since they're not looking foward to going to the Apple Store for service.
    • TheReport, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I completely agree I dont think it was one specific thing that caused this, you can check out my comment a thread up to see what my problem was
  • CBTF, on 10/12/2007, -33/+17Is there anything on these laptops that isnt broken?

    Seriously.
    • saggygrandma, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15ahh yeah mine is working just fine...
    • muleking, on 10/12/2007, -14/+27mine worked fin for 2 months before it became useless garbage
    • CBTF, on 10/12/2007, -18/+13Why digg mule down for telling the truth?
    • iLEZ, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Mine is flawless. I definitely agree that the MBs have problems, but things tend to get WAY out of proportion when blogged or dugg. Most notebooks have initial problems, but when the generation of new models is as slow and hyped as Apples, the flaws tend to become big news. It's more easy to report "Apples Macbook is flawed" than to report "HPs model 53x-40 is flawed". Apples models seem to take up a whole lot more space in the media.

      Just my 14 Swedish öre.
    • rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Apple, the new Packard Bell.
      Apple, friend of the mediocre engineer.

      Boy has Apple gone downhill now that they are Intel's bitch or what. I can't think of a better way to destroy a brand name once known for quality, not just another pretty face.
    • rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1@rebrad

      Yeah. What weirds me out though is the people saying that actually pretty much all laptops are made by Sony (or from Sony parts, or something like that). Aren't Apple in competition with Sony??? Isn't there some kind of massive conflict of interest going on there?

      I mean, that would be like MS getting Apple to design and field test a bunch of features for their next OS... oh wait...
  • muleking, on 10/12/2007, -22/+11My macbook went in for the second time for this problem. At this point I am so disgusted that I'm going to just recover damages for the the value of the piece of ***** in small claims court if they don't get it right.

    Just for reference they replaced a bunch of crap including the heatsink, fans, plastics, bezel and i think even the logic board the first time, and the problem came back worse after a week. I wouldnt even turn on and stay on more then a second.
    • tsaxer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Have you ever sued anyone before? Half the time it's not even worth it. I'd just try to see if would replace the unit if it continues to have problem after numerous 'fixes.' But that's just me.
    • miznig, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4just try to get them to send you another model
    • inkswamp, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6No offense, Mule King, but you come off like an angry 17-year-old and it seems that you're just posting to troll. If you're telling the truth, then best of luck with getting the situation fixed. Either way, less emotional posting might serve you better in the future.
    • rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2A class action suit would be better. Apple already has a class action suit by their stockholder because of fraud and stock manipulation. Might as well make their lawyers earn their pay with a class action suit by the Apple consumers.
    • collywolly, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4burry him. That didn't happen. Macs are perfect.
  • D3koy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11Someone needs to send this link to Kevin Rose...If I'm not mistaken he is having this problem still....
  • HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -10/+7Oh boy, a new piece of sketchy lore for the internet to canonize as gospel.
  • DaveRocks, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9Hurry Up, and tell Kevin Rose, so maybe we can have an episode where his apple doesnt shut off all the time....

    (hey, but at least he doesnt have a dell)
  • fanboydcs, on 10/12/2007, -12/+7First off, I dont think this is widely spread as people think, Gotta love the internet hype. Remember guys, the people that are happy with a product are typically not the ones in forums reporting every little problem with their macbook...
    • Crypty, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12I have 3 friends with macbooks and all 3 of them had the problem.

      It's either very common, or very, very coincidental.
    • TheReport, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2This has happened to me and i truley believe it is a first generation macbook issue that a good 50 percent of Macbook users experience. I'm not bitter about it seeing as my local Mac dealer does great work and typically gets the issue solved as quickly as possible.
  • Chiliman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3This seems a bit to sketchy to be the real deal. I dunno, cool find though if it is the problem.
  • antitab, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Can anybody confirm for me that the Books are actually shutting down? After about two months, mine developed a problem (apparently with the inverter board) where the screen's backlight will spontaneously go out. If you aren't in good lighting and aren't playing any music, this may very well seem like a random shutdown. On the other hand, it is reasonably obvious. Still, I'm curious. Anyone?
    • nmap, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2the machine turns off, it's very different from the backlight going off.
  • deohieu, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6"It is stated that he has located the problem which is a result of pure physics." Ha ha it makes me laughed so hard! That's stupid from the first sense.

    Anyone who -actually- studied physics must know that the heatsink can never 'expand' by heat that much during operation. The heatsink is made by metal, remember that, German IT engineer :P.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_thermal_expansion
    • deohieu, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11You can calculate how much the heatsink expands when the temperature raises by as much as 100oC here:
      http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpthermalexpansion/thermal_expansion_equation_linear_length_change.php

      My result:
      length change (Lfinal - Linitial) = 1.2E-10 meter

      Okay, I'm just wondering how can Apple produce the mainboards of MacBooks so percisely ;)
    • Crypty, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Marked as inaccurate. The expansion of a copper or aluminum heatsink at any reasonable temperature for a CPU, would be so incredibly miniscule that I can't possibly imagine it expanding enough to come into contact with another part. Even if the cable was situated 0.1 millimeters from the heatsink, I doubt it would expand that distance.
    • Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2Maybe something else in contact with the heat sink, perhaps the flimsy plastic of the case, is warping. Maybe Apple will hire engineers instead of designers the next time they come up with new hardware.
    • miznig, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3when did IT janitors start calling themselves engineers?
  • wncommercial, on 10/12/2007, -9/+12How dare you post this. There's nothing wrong with Macs. Blasphemers! Shun these heretics! Shun them!
    • wistar, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Scurrilous!
    • inkswamp, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3I love these strawman arguments you Mac-haters love to set up and knock down. From my experience, however, Mac users don't make the kind claims you imply. Oh yeah, I know, there are some very loud and very attention-whoring Mac fanatics on the Internet who post non-stop here and elsewhere (just as there are Linux and Windows fanatics doing the same) but they represent a very small fraction of Mac users out there. The majority of us are grounded in reality, but thank you for painting us all with such a wide brush anyway. By doing that, you lower yourself to the level of those same Mac fanatics you're trying to mock.
  • sportsdude567, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4I've had my macbook for about 2 months and i have never experianced any kind of problem what so ever. Everyone constantly complains about them but they seem just fine to me. Hopefully apple will fix the problem soon so you people will stop your bitching.
    • nmap, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4mine restarts a lot at random times. I don't think complaining about it is wrong as it's a serious issue.
  • valis, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5Macs are computers. They are made of common materials. Apple contracts out all of their parts. Parts f**k up. My son bought a new Mac laptop. He loves Mac. Well, he loves the Mac OS, actually. He works in the biz, so he gets pretty good treatment. Which means, most of the problems are handled quickly.

    He's returned some part of his Mac 3 times in the last 6 months. He's proud that they always respond quickly, and without a lot of trouble. Cool!

    The last PC I bought has never gotten too hot, never exploded, never needed to be returned. In fact, the last thing I needed to return was a video card. A Voodoo card a long time ago.

    Macs are computers. Recently (unlike times in the past) they seem to have a lot of problems.
    • zz5555, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2> Macs are computers. Recently (unlike times in the past) they seem to have
      > a lot of problems.

      Actually, it's the same as it always was (and the same as it always was for any computer (or software or car or etc.)) There are often many problems with a major change of anything (.0 software, new models of cars, etc.). Consumers tend to end up being beta testers. Things seem worse for Apple right now because they've just changed all their computers to Intel, so they've all had major changes. I'm not planning on buying a new Mac until next year.

      Steve
    • betobeto, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Macs always had a reputation of being built as a tank, and so they were - I still have a beige G3 around, still going strong after 8+ years. It seems to me that sometime around the peak of the iPod boom, Apple, feeling the pressure to keep up with increasing demand, began to drop their high QA standards in order to rush products and sell more and faster. I can find no other explanation why I've had issues with my 4-month old Macbook that I've never seen with the aforementioned G3, or even with my 4-year old "Luxo" iMac.

      I feel for the new "switchers" that have every right of being so pissed off at a machine that they were promised to "just work". Us longtime Apple users know this wasn't the way it used to be.

      Apple may be selling hardware like hotcakes these days, but doing so at the expense of throwing QA through the window and a short-term sales gain will only hurt them, and the brand, in the long term. And badly.
  • ravenofwinter, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Actually, the reason why MacBooks spontaneously shutdown is because Bill Gates is building a Death Ray in the basement of his mansion. Why? Because his parents didn't die in his youth, so he had no reason to use his billions to become a superhero. However, he still had all those billions lying around, so he has decided to take up Super-villany instead.

    Man's got to have a hobby.

  • Casestheorm, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0I bought my Macbook about a month ago. For a while, about once out of every five boots, it would hang at the grey screen, after I installed XP via bootcamp. No, there was no disc in the drive.

    I have since installed reFit (in order to get the triple boot with Ubuntu working) and it now works fine; the funny thing is that before that the only way to fix it was with the NVRAM reset key combo. Apart from that, though, she goes like a dream.
  • xbill, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1reFit is definately the best booter I have seen for the mac.

    I see the random shutdown once and a while in XP mode too.
    I thought at first it was related to the suspend/resume stuff -
    but I can't get anything repeatable. It seems to happen just
    after I reboot sometimes too. Other times- it runs smooth for
    days with no issues - even with heavy compiling.

    The latest BootCamp 1.1 XP drivers didn't help either.
  • boohoo, on 10/12/2007, -10/+6have fun with those "superior" macs. LOL. no thanks.
    • nmap, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I disagree, but you can choose for yourself. I'm willing to bet you haven't even tried one though.
  • SuperBob, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3I'm making these comments not owning a Mac and not being able to place my hands on a MacBook that is experiencing this issue.

    If scenario that Martin Backschat describes is true (and it sounds like he is talking from experience) then I can make the following observation:

    After the insulation on the sensor cable has be melted it is very likely that bare conductors are exposed. To short out all it would have to do is touch *any* other bare metal surface that leads to ground. That would mean that though the first shutdown was caused by heat subsequent shutdowns could be caused just by jarring the system "just right". This could appear to be a random non-heat related shutdown after the first occurrance.

    There's my non-Mac two cents.
  • rifa, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Ha!!! Hey Mac n00bs sorry to troll, but I am! HA HA TheReport posted something that was entirely hysterical by putting his mac to 100% heat and then well his computer shutdown. Trouble is when you put your CPU at such a high temperature about 5 or 6 times it turns out that the processor must finally go.

    My thought is well apple, once again, doesn't know how to put together a PC (which in this case it's just a PC since we are dealing x86 after all). The fact of the matter is replacing the logic err...motherboard isn't going to fix a thing. Please note that your processors are bad, no short circuit is going to cause such a problem in a computer!

    It's funny because the same thing happened when I put together my girlfriends new PC, that she needed to have cause she wanted to play WoW at full strength and her Powerbook just wasn't cutting it. Her computer would go into restart. I took it back to the place where I bought the parts and asked for a new processor and guess what ?! It works now. Course then again they wouldn't let me bring back the processor they wanted the whole computer to "test" it.

    I have been building systems now for five years and know when my parts are bad. This is clearly Apples flub up, as they may have gotten a bad round of chips. Run a linux distro on it, and I am sure that the kernel itself will panic on the processor, whereby apple has to provide a new one.

    • TheReport, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6"Trouble is when you put your CPU at such a high temperature about 5 or 6 times it turns out that the processor must finally go."

      The Processor did not finally go assclown, it had been shutting down previously so I did heat tests to pinpoint the problem, you do know the process of elimination dont you? Its easy let me give it to you in your language. there is a choice amongst our species in terms of sexual preference, ***** and vagina since you dont like vaginia you must like ***** hence therefore we've solved the problem of an issue that has been plagueing you for awhile now. Enjoy rapeass, im sure your inflatable "girlfriend" is enjoying WoW
  • deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Never had a random shutdown on my MacBook.
  • supz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Just bought the week 32 macbook im typing this on... first mac I've owned. No random shutdown problem... my friend, who ordered it the same time/day as me, got a week 31 and he is experiencing it :(

    I hope Apple comes up with an official fix to this soon (be it the cause described here or whatever), as the problem doesn't necessarily manifest itself right away, so while I'm safe now I may see it in the future.
  • insomniac8400, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Daily mac hardware problems, why do people bother?
  • wurzelgummage, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Such beautiful design that "just works"
  • cazabam, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This makes sense to me. In fact, it was one of my own pet theories! I noticed that shortly after running my macbook _really_ hot (encoding DVDs while watching iTunes visualisations) it suddenly got worse and worse, to the point of never completing boot up. This indicated that some damage had occurred and my immediate thought was a short caused by overheating.

    It's in the shop now getting a new logic board - I'll mention the cable when I go in and see if there's a problem with the one they took out.
  • Ling75, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I had my macbook for three weeks before the problem started, it happened when both hot and cold. Since then, the logic board has been replaced and it hasn't happened since.
    So far so good.
  • DocDEB, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I'm kind of happy that I don't have the money right now to replace my aging Titanium PowerBook. Let all the problems be worked out first then I'll get a new MacBook/MacBook Pro.
  • collywolly, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3So what happened to the Apple myth of "just works"......?

    I know I am more likely to get burried down, than get my queston answered. Come on Mac heads, be brave........
    • cazabam, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2The reason you won't get your question answered is because you are only asking it to provoke a negative reaction. This is called "trolling", and thus provides the reason for your getting buried.
  • mozomo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1May God bless us all, they found two problems in my MacBook 1 logic board and 2 heat sync!
  • bufbarnaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1A well-placed sledge-hammer blow shuts it down every time.
  • kalisphoenix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I've never had a problem with an Apple computer... and I've had an LC III, a Performa 5400, a Powerbook 190c, a Powerbook 3400, a Powerbook 5300cs, a B&W Power Mac G3, a Power Mac G4, an iBook G4, two iMac G3's, and (now) an iMac Core Duo. Never a spot of trouble.

    But I'm not going to be buying an MBP or an MB until I'm positive that the issues are ironed out. I may be a Mac fanboy, but I'm no glutton for punishment ;)
  • grow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0My friend was having a problem with hers shutting down randomly. So, I tried messing around with it a bit.

    I thought maybe it was over heating? I changed the battery setting to "Better Battery Life" and that did not do much, it went off shortly after.

    I turned it on again and tried disabling Bluetooth and Wireless, it shut off again.

    I turned it off then on twice more and after that I had no problem with it.

    I then tried turning both Bluetooth and Airport on and resetting it again. I set the battery settings back to "Better Performance" and It worked fine for the next 3 hours I had it with me. It may have lasted longer but since then she got it replaced.

    If anyone is interested in trying it with theirs please do. Maybe there's just a little conflict that's doing it?

    PS: Sorry if I waste your time and it was pure dumb luck. =)
  • anthony0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is definitely not a heat problem since I can be on my Macbook for hours and running it heavily without a hitch and some times simply turn the Macbook on and after 5 min., it just shuts down. Restart and before it even gets to boot completely it shutsdown. Try again, and it's up for hours again even under heavy load. Don't know what the issue is but it most definitely is not a heat problem. My Macbook is of the batch with the issue and is in for repair. Just an FYI.
  • rome420, on 05/14/2008, -0/+0ha! that's a weird title. they didn't give out the solution, just explained the problem with the macbooks lol
    check out http://www.germany.com for more news, articles and images
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