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Mac vs. PC cost analysis: How does it all add up?

computerworld.com — As a longtime Windows guy who has recently migrated to the Mac, I think I'm in a pretty good position to try and sort out reality from fiction. Let's take a look at what you can really get for your money these days.

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  • Anrkist, on 10/11/2007, -122/+150The avaerage, non-gaming computer user can get a PC for about $600, Including Monitor.. without monitor, $300... granted, they aren't always the best hardware..

    The cheapest Mac is $600, no monitor... and it really doesnt do much other then surf the net and burn CD's... Mac Mini, I own one. Honestly Apple, it's time to outsource more of your hardware.

    I'm sure this article summed all of that up though.
    • mcfarag, on 10/11/2007, -153/+58Way to assume.

      The article isn't looking at your no-name, low end, piece of ***** PC...it's comparing comparable name-brand notebooks from both markets, and if you would take a minute out of your precious time to RTFA, you'd be surprised at what you find.
    • agrabob, on 10/11/2007, -94/+327I love this:
      "But first, let me say to all those people who have ever bought a Packard Bell or eMachines PC and believe that great value in a computer means any model that sells for $600 or less: I agree -- Apple doesn't have an answer for you. In fact, I suggest that you skip this article entirely. You're not going to find anything of interest in it."

      He's basically saying: "I'm going to ignore the biggest part of the consumer market and thus perform a half ass cost analysis, which will anger all but Apple zealots. So please dont read this if your not an Apple zealot."
    • Tsen, on 10/11/2007, -44/+156What I want to know is what the hell they're thinking.
      Even if they don't produce a cheap, affordable Mac for the average person, why don't they make one to sell to schools?
      The downright CHEAPEST model they've got for schools is $800 bucks a pop, starting price. Hence, my old high school has eight year old fuggin' iFruits in the graphics lab (back from the era when Macs were better at graphics than PCs). Now, since Adobe's been making Photoshop for Windows for a while now, and since Macs are too damn expensive, our school's phasing them out and replacing them with PCs.

      So what does Apple have to lose? They can still make a profit selling cheaper computers to schools, and that way they could get kids used to Mac OS X so they're more likely to buy a Mac when they get their own computer later...

      But no, Mac's decided it needs to cling to its rich, pretty-boy status, even if it's costing them...
    • themanmachine, on 10/11/2007, -88/+43I know that macs on average cost more than PCs with the same specs. But for me, the virus-free, user-friendly OS is worth the extra hundred bucks.
    • deadbaby, on 10/11/2007, -78/+48"But no, Mac's decided it needs to cling to its rich, pretty-boy status, even if it's costing them..."

      OK this is one of my pet peeves.

      Mac is a brand of Apple computer. Mac doesn't decided anything. Mac is a name of a product. What you wanted to say was "Apple decided" --- Apple is the company who makes the Macintosh product.
    • fasda, on 10/11/2007, -71/+11@themanmachine
      I never understood how windows was that user unfriendly but while windows is virus ridden other companies like Norton and Symantec have stepped up to bat and for around 100 bucks you can protect a PC pretty well and still beat a mac for cost.
    • QEDbitches, on 10/11/2007, -52/+98@themanmachine - "for around 100 bucks you can protect a PC pretty well"

      That 100 bucks to buy an anti-virus is a YEARLY fee, which, if you do the math, over time you'll realize is not a cost-effective solution. Plus, you are relying on a home user to be competent and run the software properly (incredibly unlikely event).

      In my experience, Apple makes laptops with better looks, better performance and better support. I am by no means a "fan boy," but I do respect a company with quality goods instead of the same old crap Dell sends out, loaded so heavily with bloatware that you need to reimage it out of the box.
    • soopertoll, on 10/11/2007, -46/+8@themanmachine: That was just about what i was about to say. AND you'll get a neat design AND more stability AND the fact that OSX gets copied piece by piece by Vista, doesn't speak for Vista.
    • fremeer, on 10/11/2007, -30/+13just use antivir which has the best rate of virus detection compare to all the antivirus's yes even nod32 but also is free. there suddenly no cost for an antivirus
    • wharlie, on 10/11/2007, -31/+99AVG Anti-virus is free, easy to setup and is totally automatic.
      For Windows and Linux, sorry no Mac.
    • crimsonalucard, on 10/11/2007, -23/+91If you're morally okay with piracy. The cost benefites of a PC are almost infinite. Things like maya, photoshop, 3d studio max, after effects, matlab, mathematica, p-spice, PRO-E, are all reduced to zero.

    • mickeyknoxxx, on 10/11/2007, -13/+124You can get your porn just as fast on either computer.

    • Flashman, on 10/11/2007, -26/+56@agrabob: The author's just trying to get an apples-to-apples comparison (pun intended). Does a sub-$600 PC compete with a $2000 PC? No - and that's why the author doesn't compare a $600 PC with a $2000 Mac.
    • rolf, on 10/11/2007, -25/+96Part of my willingness to cough up a premium is to be mostly free of headaches.

      Look, if you have to run antivirus - you are wasting time, as well as Processor cycles - that equates to being slower. Same with running anything maintainence - defragmentation, ad-aware, whatever.

      Really low end computers, sub-$500, use low-end hardware which tend to be buggy and models can hit and miss. I know, I had to admin enough of them for friends and family. Sometimes, little stupid things wouldn't work properly, like suspend or sleep or the power button (I kid you not) - how much extra is that in electricity each year?

      As someone mentioned mac's cheapest line, the Mac Mini, it is more expensive than a comparable (in power) computer because it uses Laptop components to get it's small form factor.

      I use Ubuntu, but I gave my parents Macs. The premium was worth it. These are people who break EVERYTHING in terms of software. I am glad I bought a Mac for them, as I even found my mom scanning (over a wireless network) and emailing pictures the other day - something that would never have happened with a Windows PC without my time/energy and losing some of my sanity along the way.

      Sometimes a product is more than a list of features, it is the entire integration that is key. From my experience with Apple the last few years, they have been much better than average - especially with their integrated hardware/software. Don't label me a fanboi, I thought Apple pretty much sucked until OS X - and for good reasons (pre-OS X Mac OSes sucked).
    • myt29, on 10/11/2007, -22/+7Or you can go on eBay and put together a comparable system cheaply.
    • DildoOreilly, on 10/11/2007, -33/+21If you like parting with your money easily and want to majorly limit yourself to the available software online, buy a Mac.
    • unit101, on 10/11/2007, -28/+80@ chixdiggme

      "Apples are not invulnerable to viruses. It's just that the market share of Apple is so tiny and most companies use PCs, it makes no sense for someone to write a virus for such a small base of users."

      That's a common misconception. The reason for the lack of viruses on OS X is not the size of the installer base, but the solidness of it's Unix underpinnings. OS 9 had some viruses, and the installer base was smaller back then. The relatively small market-share does not explain the lack of viruses in OS X.
    • brstilson, on 10/11/2007, -27/+13"You would need to upgrade the video memory and system RAM (bumping the price to about $1,750) to make the iMac comparable with the Sony in those areas."

      Except that you can't upgrade the video memory....ITS A MAC!!
    • ubuntuedgy, on 10/11/2007, -10/+40Man, I really get frustrated when I read these articles. It seems that people with no relevant experience write them. First of all, you cannot bargain with Apple. The price you see is the price you get. That is not the case with Gateway or Dell. I had heard about it but did not believe it, but was buying my wife a laptop. The trick is to call them (no online ordering) and haggle. I got them to drop $300 off the price of the laptop, after I configured it to my spec. You heard me right. Call them and haggle. It works. I am sure others can testify to this. The price you see for Dell or Gateway is NOT the price you pay...unless you don't call them. You can always get that price down. A lot of people don't know this, but I guarantee if you are buying a nice system they will drop the price for you.

      If you are a tech and have to buy machines in bulk (more than 50 at once), you can really work with Gateway and Dell to drop the price. They will surprise you.
    • zybch, on 10/11/2007, -18/+7I think this guy has been smoking some of the same ***** that Daniel Eran does. You know the stuff, it makes you honestly believe that buying 4 $110 releases of OSX over a 5 year period is going to cost you 5 times as much as a one-off $240 purchase of XP plus a couple of free service packs during the same timeframe.
    • 1smellyguy, on 10/11/2007, -11/+12There's no promise of fairness in life. and there's no rule that things have to be comparable. The world doesn't have to be discernable by a class of intellingensia which is obsessed with ranking one object over another.

      you want a PC buy one. for business, it's hard for me to rationalize a Mac purchase. For music, video, and graphics production, I've settled on a Mac. My 1st computer was a 286. PCs are fine and getting better. Macs in my life have been more stable. However, I've had two irreversable catastrophes with Macs. Now I back up religiously

      I have noticed that in Studios, engineers seem to have more issues with syncing of peripherals with PCs as compared to Macs
    • Tippis, on 10/11/2007, -4/+34@ fasda
      "for around 100 bucks you can protect a PC pretty well"
      You can protect a windows box for $0 - anything more than that, at least as a home user, and you're being ripped off.

      Not to mention that, if you are at least a teensy bit savvy, you hardly even need those programs, so no CPU cycles are wasted either. All you have to do is get a decent router (which you'll need regardless of your OS) and replace the standard browser (which you generally need to do regardless of your OS). Regardless of system, the added hassle and cost is the same: slight and zero, respectively.

      In essence, the whole "the price is the same if you include protection" argument equates to a pettier, but equally useless, version of saying "setup X is more expensive, since you have to include the cost of CS3 Master edition."

      @rolf
      "I use Ubuntu, but I gave my parents Macs. The premium was worth it. These are people who break EVERYTHING in terms of software."
      That's really the variable that all these system comparisons keep missing: the cost of the *end user* -- it won't be seen in the OS or hardware specs, let me tell you ;)
    • zongamin, on 10/11/2007, -20/+5@dildooreilly - Or how about - if you like spending hours 'setting up' your new machine, and enjoy the constant threat of viruses and spyware, get a pc
    • Omicron, on 10/11/2007, -9/+111i gotta be honest. i read the first page of this article and none of the rest, but from that first page, i did decide to go to hp.com and see if i could recreate the $2800 MacBook Pro. Here were the results:

      Operating System - Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium (32-bit)
      Processor - Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo T7500 (2.2GHz/4MB L2Cache)
      Display - 17.0" WSXGA+ BrightView Widescreen (1680x1050)
      Memory - $50 off upgrade from 1GB (2 Dimm) to 2GB (2 Dimm)!
      Graphics Card - 511MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GS
      Personalization - HP Imprint Finish (Radiance) + Microphone
      Networking - Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 4965AGN Network w/Bluetooth
      Hard Drive - 160GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
      Primary CD/DVD Drive - Super Multi 8X DVD+/-R/RW w/Double Layer Support
      Primary Battery - 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery

      From what I can tell, the major differences are 0.2 GHz slower processor (insignificant) but almost twice the vRAM (very significant) and no video camera.
      The cost of this "top of the line" HP laptop? $1693.99 over $1000 less than the top of the line MacBook pro

      Do some more research next time before you write an article
    • mikesbaker, on 10/11/2007, -4/+21http://www.packetshaped.com/comics/060619.jpg
      I can build a decent gaming rig for around $600 but it would have a CRT instead of an LCD
    • l33tsauce, on 10/11/2007, -13/+3lol i've been saying for ages that the macbook is a very good value, even before the current upgrade. Now it's just awesome, hands down the BEST laptop money can buy imo. The problem is not everybody need a $2000 laptop, for 90% of us any laptop $1000 or less can handle everything we need. There is no doubt in my mind that you get what you paid for with Apple, problem is not everybody need all of that goodness. Thats why Windows base machine will always dominate in sale, it offers people endless choices for every personal preference.

      ps: there is also the gaming issue when it come to Mac.
    • RiverBelow, on 10/11/2007, -16/+2Who the heck is buying a computer for $600 on purpose? What do you plan on doing with a $600 PC? Please, tell me, mine was custom built and altogether cost over $1200 and I still have trouble with higher powered things, such as video editing or rendering movies. It can't even run Adobe Premiere Pro or Adobe After Effects. My 2.0 GHz MacBook for $1200 can render movies fine, despite its lackluster videocard it still blows my $1200 DESKTOP PC out of the water.
    • arbulus, on 10/11/2007, -14/+5The idea of comparison of Macs and PCs is not just a matter of comparing prices. You can say "Apple's lowest priced computer is $600, but you can get a PC for $350", but that doesn't work. You have to compare specs, processors, memory, video cards, etc. You can't compare the Wal-Mart bargain PC to a Mac Mini. They're not even close when it comes to specs, so it's not even a real comparison. If you want to talk about cars, you don't compare a Ferrari to a Chevette, you compare a Ferrari to a Lamborghini or a Chevette to a Pinto. Otherwise the comparison means nothing.
    • DaffyDuck, on 10/11/2007, -13/+4"If you're morally okay with piracy. The cost benefites of a PC are almost infinite. Things like maya, photoshop, 3d studio max, after effects, matlab, mathematica, p-spice, PRO-E, are all reduced to zero. "

      If you are OK with piracy, you can run all of those plus all OS X software on a Mac. Why do so many people seem to forget that Macs now use Intel processors. It's the reason I bought my first Mac.
    • betterth, on 10/11/2007, -9/+37Here's a price comparison by someone who's a PC fan, not a Mac fanboy.

      the 17" MacBook versus the Dell Inspiron E1705
      Memory: 2GB DDR 667 (Winner: Both have equal memory)
      HDD: 160GB 5400RPM (Winner: Both have equal hdd)
      Screen: 17" 1680x1050 | 17" 1920x1200 (Winner: Dell)
      Proc: 2.4GHz Core2 Duo | 2.13 GHz Core2 Duo (Winner: Apple)
      Video: 8600M GT | Go 7900 GS (Winner: Dell. The only benefit to the 8 series is DirectX 10, which Apple doesn't support. The 79** series outperforms the 86** series due to poor drivers. Since Apple doesn't get DX10, the winner is Dell)
      Drive: 8x Dual Layer DVD+/-RW (Winner: Both have equal drive)
      Price: $2799.99 | $1923.99 (Winner: Dell, by 876$)

      Count the wins:
      Apple: 1
      Dell: 3
      Both/Tie: 3

      In my book, looks like while you don't get the 2.4GHz that Apple has prevented Intel from disseminating to other companies effectively (read: harddrives for the ipod), you can get the same kind of hardware for significantly cheaper. Hell, I could go buy a Dell computer to go with this laptop for the price difference, one that has a better processor than the Core2 Duo 2.4 GHz for laptops.

      But hey, we should clearly switch to Dell's overpriced XPS line to compare, because it's more expensive and makes Apple look good.
    • DeFex, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2it is already outsourced. they are made in the same factory, with the same parts as many PC laptops
    • threemagic, on 10/11/2007, -5/+13I have a Mac Pro: what the means to those that don't know mac hardware is I have a dual core Xeon processor work station. (notice I didn't say OS X).

      I run: ubuntu, Vista, and OS X all natively.

      I use: OS X as a host and run the other two OS's in VM's when I'm not as picky about graphics power. (The VM manufacturers are picking up steam, the graphics issue is slowly going away).

      Yes this box is not for you "I only look at the final cost" people.. it's a value computer. Value??!!! You are saying.. this dude's high. No.. it's value.. look at all I got for $2300 (see above + ati 1900 512mb video card.. I play vanguard)


      Here's the other part: I had a gaming machine AND a G5 before i got this. I bought them at the same time. it was a single processor 1.8gh g5 and an AMD 3200+ with an ATI 9800 pro video card (cheap by today's standard's, I know). Well I upgraded em both. I sold my Mac for $1000 and my PC for $250.00 (both had lots of memory and HD space).... so technically (and thanks to the mac not losing it's value as fast).. my upgrade on both machines cost me a single grand.
    • Kurisuku, on 10/11/2007, -20/+6To me mac's are ***** worthless because you can't pirate most the software you would want to use.

      Spending 2 grand on a computer that will require another 1 grand in software is absolutely insane. You people must have amazing jobs, because my 90 dollar paycheck (after taxes) doesn't exactly cut it. Sometimes I wonder why I even bothered going to college.
    • geoken, on 10/11/2007, -9/+17"Look, if you have to run antivirus - you are wasting time, as well as Processor cycles - that equates to being slower. Same with running anything maintainence - defragmentation, ad-aware, whatever."

      How does running a bunch of automated scripts at 4am while I'm sleeping amount to "wasting time"?
    • Charlotte_Web, on 10/11/2007, -4/+13Summary of article:

      High-end Macs are a good value.

      Low and mid-range Macs are not.

      The reason for that, of course, is that Apple is all about the upsell.
    • sancho, on 10/11/2007, -6/+7@geoken:
      Most antivirus packages also scan every file you open and everything you download. Word documents, games, everything. That scanning uses cycles, and since it usually blocks access to the item while it is scanning, that means that latency increases. The user clicks the file, then waits for the scan to finish (it doesn't take long, but on most computers, it's noticeable), and then gets to continue doing what he was doing.

      I can't stand having Antivirus on my computers. Then again, I haven't had problems with viruses/malware in years. Safe computing isn't hard.
    • threemagic, on 10/11/2007, -4/+8@kurisuku: You don't notice the "macintosh" section on Piratebay?
    • miniboss, on 10/11/2007, -5/+19I'm a Mac user so don't hang me right away, but there are two huge factors which are constantly being exploited by these pointless articles. Timing and Coupons.

      Timing:
      Ever notice how these comparison articles are always popping up right when a new system is released? At the cusp of a new release then a Mac compares very well to a top-of-the-line PC. But the problem is 6-8months later when age causes the price to naturally plummets on the PC, yet the 6month old Macbook Pro is still selling at it's original pricepoint.

      Coupons:
      Every internet savvy consumer knows that the $1499 pricetag at Dell or Best Buy won't be the price you actually pay. Coupons and sales are constant so that killer system will go down 30-50% with little effort. But with Apple there's only one price and it won't budge.

      Again, I'm a Mac user and I don't mind paying extra. I just feel these articles are silly. Why try so hard to pretend the premium system we use doesn't have a premium pricetag.
    • fuzzynyanko, on 10/11/2007, -4/+4One thing he did was to use the "Customize" button on the DELL page, which is usually a bad idea for getting a low price regardless of the computer company. The markups for customization upgrades are usually high unless you have a home-built PC or one built in a local Mom and Pop PC store.
    • Kurisuku, on 10/11/2007, -10/+3@ threemagic

      Ever read the comments? Most of the software on there is either broken or uncrackable.

      Logic pro? Uncrackable due to dongle.

      Reason? Uncracked.

      Ableton? Broken patch..

      A lot of the torrents also have demo versions that are "patched". But apparently even those end up calling home and getting disabled which defeats the purpose. Many are bundled without the CD key you need. Many are just fake torrents.

      It's really not that these apps are literally uncrackable but moreso that no one is really trying to crack them, unlike on the PC.

      The only things that really seem available are maya, adobe products, and a bunch of old games like Warcraft III and Doom.
    • Traiklin, on 10/11/2007, -5/+5@riverbelow

      well seeing as how I have a $400 PC from walmart I was able to do my video editing just fine, it can run Adobe Premiere Pro & Adobe After Effects just fine.

      I upgraded it for about $250 more (video card and another stick of 512mb ram) and I can run games at an even higher setting then before without problems.

      I've wanted to get a mac for years but that price is just outrageous when compared to a PC of the same (or sometimes much better) spec (which has been pointed out quite a bit so far) and when I look at it I just can't bring myself to really want to get a Mac, Why would I when I look at an article like this? $2800 for a mac when I could take that same $2800 and build one hell of a PC that could do way more then I could possibly ever want it to do?
    • brundlefly76, on 10/11/2007, -6/+4Whats more relevant to me is that there is no value if you cant buy the specific hardware thats right for *you*.

      I like MacOS and had a MacBook, the only reason I got rid of it was that it was too hot on my lap during my train commute.

      I have zero brand loyalty with my annual notebook purchase and go entirely based on my needs, specs and first-hand reviews at the time of purchase. I have purchased a different brand every year for 6 years (Sony, Toshiba, IBM, HP, Apple, Dell), and been very happy with each choice (well except the Apple).

      With Mac I cant do that, I can get a Mac or MacBook Pro, or their ultraport if they have one available. If there is anything I dont like about that particular piece of hardware, I'm SOL. It doesn't matter how cheap the hardware is if it doesn't suit your needs.









    • miniboss, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7PC prices are so low now they can almost be viewed as disposable. A Core2 notebook for $5-600 isn't hard to come by so is "better value" and "last longer" even relevent anymore when you can annually update and still pay less for better specs?

      So I just want to point out a real-world example using two average consumers (me and the wife).

      ME:
      Macbook CoreDuo/512/80gb Purchased: Jul06
      $1500 My Macbook
      +120 1GB Ram upgrade
      +130 120GB HDD upgrade
      TOTAL: $1750

      WIFE:
      Purchased Jan06:
      HP Notebook Centrino/512/60GB
      $650 @ Best Buy sale (Now a media center in bedroom)

      Purchased May07:
      Dell Notebook Core2Duo/1GB/160GB
      $600 @ Dell w/online coupon
      TOTAL: $1250


      If we start looking long term and next year she'll update her specs for $600 again and spend $1800 in 3 years and I'll (finally) upgrade and spend somewhere over $3000 total. I love my Mac but if you step back and look at these prices without bias then clearly there is some incredible value in being cheap.
    • noopzilla!, on 10/11/2007, -8/+4well i guess the digg mob collectively decided to hate this article. oh well.

      can we get real for a second: why would you seriously compare an eMachines to a ***** iMac? eMachines are terrible computers. everyone knows this.

      if apple wants to throw eMachines-type quality and parts into their machines, i'm sure there costs would be down there, too.
    • strangewill, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10*Before reading article*
      Hmm, an article from a Mac user, I bet this one is fair and balanced.

      *After reading article*
      Ah, as I expected, running with one name brand, no research, no looking at alternatives, which is where PC has it's strength in cost effectiveness (duh!). I'm surprised these people can find their power buttons with their obvious lack of logical analysis.


      BTW: Not a PC fan, not a Mac fan, just not a biased idiot.
    • dkoon, on 10/11/2007, -7/+3jeez, wtf is this guy talking about, Windows PC are more expensive than Apple when the spec's better and faster than Apple, Only Cheaper when the spec is not as good as Apple. Good Analysis.
    • fuzzynyanko, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5There's a guy who has problem rendering videos with a custom $1200 desktop computer? Whoever built that thing sucks. I saw plenty of computers that meet Adobe Premier specs for $1200, including an Apple installed with Windows XP.
    • freedomhater, on 10/11/2007, -6/+4Not true. I have a mac mini both at home and at the office. They do EVERYTHING. I am a very busy graphic designer and I beat the hell out of both of them running heavy applications like flash, photoshop, illustrator, Final Cut etc... usually all at the same time. I even play games like command and conquer generals and quake.

      They are great value for the quality and reliability. And if I really want to game hardcore, I play my xbox or DS.
    • DaffyDuck, on 10/11/2007, -7/+4Why was I dugg down above? I seriously want to know why people disagree with what I said?
    • scootinger, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Does anyone remember the Mac clones back in the mid-1990s? They were made by companies like Power Computing, Motorola, UMAX, etc. I had a Power Computing clone machine myself. Apple had a hard time competing with them, as they were usually cheaper, and I think that some of their machines were even faster than Apple's. It ended up with Apple (under Steve Jobs) practically revoking the companies' licenses to manufacture the clone machines. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_clone for more info)

      So I doubt that Apple would let other companies make "clone" machines, especially with Steve Jobs running the company...
    • GotMex, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2"...and it really doesnt do much other then surf the net and burn CD's..."

      I have one and I have it running a Web/Mail server with moderate traffic, serving as a custom .mac/idisk service for my friends and family, as well as a few other services. It doesn't JUST do web browsing, the OS X adds a lot of value and usability to the computer.

      I'd be hard pressed to build a similar sized PC with Linux for the same low price, and have it colocated in a data center for under $25 bucks a month.
    • Tippis, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5@ jrocknyc
      "Invest a bunch of money today, Apple, and you could have a huge marketshare in a decade."

      ...just ask Adobe and Microsoft. There's a reason they're the biggest fish in their respective fields today: they both started out basically throwing their stuff at anyone who happened to breathe anywhere near them.
    • Charlotte_Web, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3I bought a bunch of PowerComputing clones back when they were on the market. Sure, it ran Mac OS, and at a much cheaper price than Apple's Mac hardware, but it was obvious where they cut the corners. Apple really does use the best quality parts and puts a lot of forethought into the design.

      Take for example the speaker that Apple puts into every Mac -- Apple put a good, quality speaker in there. PowerComputing put in the cheapest PC speaker they could find, and the difference was huge. Listening to music at your desk on a PowerComputing system was a painful experience, if you didn't have external speakers.

      Part of the problem was that Apple was in partnership with all of these clone vendors, so they couldn't really attack them for how cheaply made their systems were.

      However, I think Apple should rethink the "clone" market, and sell OS X for any PC's, not just Apple hardware. I think that that's the only way they can recapture double-digit marketshare. The bigger the internet becomes, the less important Windows becomes.
    • nerogtr, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5mac mini can only burn cds and surf the web? not true. although it wasn't my preference, I ran 24 track pro tools mix sessions on my mac mini (the old ppc one, not one of the new intel ones) and was able to suck quite a bit of processing power out of it for plugins and such. i'd rather have been using a mac pro, but the little ***** was pretty powerful.
    • BlackCow, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6The day I will consider using OS X is the day they allow me to install it on my custom built computer.
    • missingnoh4x, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4This discussion of antivirus software brings to mind this old CAD strip:
      http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20060513
    • Handcannons, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3>

      Adobe has been making Photoshop for Windows since before most digg users were using computers.
    • jimbo100, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4not really - i got my computer and a 19 inch monitor (admittedly they were not in a bundle deal) for £675

      the computer has a core 2 duo processor (2.13Ghz)
      1 gig of ram (this can be upgraded to 2 gig for about £60)
      an nVidia GeForce 7650 GS graphics card with hdmi port, scart port, s-video port, and digital and vga ports
      a TV tuner port with freeview decoder
      a 7.1 surround sound output
      and Windows Vista Home Premium with windows media center.
      and 2 dvd drives.
      and even a remote control

      i rest my case.
    • ninja0, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3lets not forget about the new ubuntu dells... no payable OS seems to generally cut the price by 100-150$
    • Robotsu, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1"What I want to know is what the hell they're thinking.
      Even if they don't produce a cheap, affordable Mac for the average person, why don't they make one to sell to schools?"

      This is a pretty obvious answer, and one a lot of people try to ask about Apple. Why don't they enter X market? Why don't they license their OS? Why don't they flood their retail shops with low end, high-volume eMachine-esque computers?

      Because that isn't where the value is. They make their money by capturing a very specific, targeted market of consumers who want a higher-end machine that is a well integrated hardware and software device.
    • Robotsu, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1"What I want to know is what the hell they're thinking.
      Even if they don't produce a cheap, affordable Mac for the average person, why don't they make one to sell to schools?"

      Where is the market for a computer that is slightly above the quality of an eMachine yet below the quality and price of the cheapeast Mac? IMHO, they tried exactly this in the mid-90's with their vast array of differently priced computers. As I remember things, it wasn't until Steve Jobs came back and slashed the product line for exactly that reason. There were other factors that lead Apple out of the dark days, but IMHO that was a pretty significant reason.

      Most of the things students need to accomplish are perfect for a low-end junky eMachine or Dell. Think about it, simple word processing, powerpoint, internets... Plus you factor in that anything with a lot of different traffic of young people on it is going to get beat up pretty fast, and unless you need to run Illustrator, Photoshop, or whatever other advanced applications that might require a high-end machine such as a Mac, you're not going to want to make a very substantial investment. At least that is how I see things.

      "But no, Mac's decided it needs to cling to its rich, pretty-boy status, even if it's costing them..."

      Not only is this a ridiculous cheap-shot, it is completely retarded. What exactly is "costing them". If you mean negative money, you may be right. Not entering a losing market is a good idea, IMHO. And do you disparage mercedes benz for not offering a low-end model as well? Didn't think so. They have finally figured out a business model, despite silly suggestions from people like you that I'm happy they haven't followed :P

    • aaronm67, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3You guys make it sound like if you're running Windows, you will do nothing but run anti virus on your computer 24/7. I don't even have antivirus installed. Occassionally, if I've gotten a file from a questionable source (forums, crack sites, etc), I will upload it to virusscan.jotti.org, which only takes a few minutes. If you know how to browse the web, and understand what kind of sites to download programs from, you don't have any need for anti-virus software.
    • DulcetTone, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1Can we get the average person OFF the internet?

      I assume it's these folks who are buying things advertised in SPAM.

      tone
    • Dotdotdot, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1The problem with the cost analysis and all of that is despite the differences in cost, and whatever value one may find in a Mac vs PC operating-system wise, Apple's hardware is not the cutting-edge "top-of-the-line" hardware it should be.

      I was going to buy a Mac Pro the day they put an 8800 or better inside. But I got tired of waiting and just went to Newegg and ordered parts and built my own for half the price of a Mac Pro.
  • moonboots, on 10/11/2007, -18/+69Compare this Dell e1505 to the new 15 inch MacBook Pro.

    -Core 2 Duo T7200 2GHz
    -15.4 1680x1050 glossy screen
    -1GB DDR2
    -120GB Hard Drive
    -256MB RADEON X1400

    The list price is $1422, but with the coupons Dell rolls out monthly, the price is $873. It's not fair to compare a discounted computer with a regular priced computer, but who the hell buys a Dell without these coupons? Compared to the new MacBook Pro's, the Dell has a slower processor, less ram, and a lesser Graphics Card. However, at less than half the price, the Dell makes the Macbook look like a scam.
    • Dumbledorito, on 10/11/2007, -7/+28And from what I read, Apple isn't into giving out discounts, even if you're shelling out major bucks (and are a famous webcartoonist):

      http://www.pvponline.com/blog/3283/more-like-crapple-am-i-right-guys
    • xain, on 10/11/2007, -12/+2@ Dumbledorito - that article on pvp doesn't mention the fact that Apples retail prices are CAPPED at 8.5% margin. A 5% discount is more than any other retailer is going to offer them.
    • iamthenoise, on 10/11/2007, -13/+4yes maybe, but....YOU'RE ALSO GETTING A DELL>!#$>#!$>M!
    • sinurgy, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9I was just thinking the same thing, I mean seriously...who the hell buys a Dell without some sort of coupon code(s)? Dells are sold like cars, sure if you pay MSRP it's going to be expensive but only the ignorant pay MSRP. Apples on the other hand are MSRP at all times....sorta like Saturns. :-P
    • rickcarson, on 10/11/2007, -23/+10I took your e1505, bumped the ram to be the same as the MBP and added in all the 'little' stuff that Dell leaves out, such as Wireless Ethernet and Bluetooth.

      Executive Summary: Dell gets spanked.

      The e1505 shoots up to $2744. After rebate it was $2021. -> Advantage Mac (by only 1%)
      At those prices to rent the Mac would be $48 per month, to rent the Dell would be $61 per month. -> Advantage Mac (by 27% (!!!!!!))

      Now the Dell is still slower: 2Ghz core 2 duo compared with the Macs 2.2Ghz -> Advantage Mac (by 10%)
      I don't really know video cards, the Dell has a 256MB X1400, the Mac has a 128MB 8600M

      but... from my brief research into the matter it would seem that according to these guys:

      http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Graphics-Cards-Benchmark-List.844.0.html

      the 8600M utterly crushes the X1400, from between 2x and 6x on the benchmarks. Ouch. -> Advantage Mac (by a big spanking)

      (of course, apple has just had a refresh of that line-up, check back in six months when they're still using the 8600M and Dell gets off their butt and upgrades their graphics card to something with a bit more oomph)

      The graphics option you picked for the Dell had 1024x768 resolution. The MBP has 1440x900. -> Advantage Mac (by 65%)

      Rather than continue to humiliate Dell on a line item by line item basis, lets jump to the two things it did have an advantage at:

      About the only thing the Dell won at (I thought it would have won on the graphics card but there you go, can't believe the Dell fanbois all the time it seems) was the hard drive. Equalizing the hard drive made the Mac $53 more expensive than the Dell (oh wait, I forgot the remote control in the previous prices, that makes the Mac only $27 more expensive with the same hard drive). The faster 7200 rpm offerings are sparse, Apple offers a 160GB, Dell only lets you include an 80 or a 100GB.

      Where Dell does have an advantage is not on price or features (unless you want features stripped out like parent poster), but in terms of the wide variety of things you can have included (for more $), such as fixing that piddly little screen resolution or including Printers and TV tuners. However, the TV tuners appear from the pictures on Dell's site to be external so not much of an advantage there.

      And that was something I was surprised the article didn't point out when comparing that 19" all in one Sony with the iMac - the Sony includes a TV tuner. But again, the Sony had a much slower CPU - even when compared with the relatively ancient iMac line-up which hasn't been updated for too long. Check back Monday, I know I will.
    • jsebrech, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3Amazon does give discounts and rebates on some apple products. Macintouch always links to these (scroll down on the page): http://macintouch.com/ . Admittedly, these are not large cuts, but they're better than nothing.

      And don't complain about comparisons that aren't equal only to suggest one yourself that by your own admission is not equal. If you fit inside the product categories that apple targets, you're getting an ok deal on hardware, and a great deal on software. If you don't fit inside these categories, you're obviously in the wrong discussion.

      Personally I do think they lack decent options between their consumer and their pro machines. Lots of people want semi-pro hardware. Not the hardcore stuff that graphics professionals need, but something a little more beefy and expandable than your run-of-the-mill imac or macbook. Apple doesn't cater to that, and I think that's a mistake. On the other hand, they're not dumb. If they don't offer these machines it must be because their market studies concluded that the market wasn't there for it.
    • rebrad, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7rickcarson
      You are full of it. I bought a 1505 with everything and more that you described and the cost with coupon was less than $1400. I'm not sure what you added but it wasn't something worth having. Are mac fanbois so insecure that they have to create fantasy comparisons to bolster their fragile egos? If you like Macs and you can afford them buy one. You don't need to feel guilty about it, say it's not right and call for Mommy. Grow up..
    • abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -4/+14@rick:

      don't know where you got your info from but here is the dell e1505 for $1400 (ish)

      PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7200 (2.00GHz, 4MB L2 Cache, 667MHz FSB) edit
      OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium edit
      LCD PANEL 15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display edit
      MEMORY 2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHZ, 2 DIMM edit
      HARD DRIVE Size: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM) edit
      OPTICAL DRIVE 8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability edit
      VIDEO CARD 256MB ATI MOBILITY™ RADEON® X1400 HyperMemory™ edit
      SOUND OPTIONS Integrated Sound Blaster® Audigy™HD Software Edition edit
      My Accessories
      BATTERY OPTIONS 53 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery edit
      WIRELESS CARDS Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N edit
      BLUETOOTH OPTIONS Dell Wireless 355 Bluetooth Internal (2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate) edit
      BLUETOOTH OPTIONS ExpressCard Media Remote for Bluetooth-enabled Notebooks edit

      As you can see I even threw in some random options! The CHEAPEST MBP is $1999.
    • sekhui, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3***** scott kurtz.
    • EXreaction, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Don't compare Apple's brand new Macbook Pro's to Dell's old line. Dell has yet to upgrade it's line to the Santa Rosa platform (probably to sell older built up stock piles of hardware).

      I myself have been slightly interested in the new Macbook Pro...

      It has a nice look, a very decent graphics card, backlit keyboard, and a LED backlit LCD. But is that all worth the $1000 price premium over something that will work for me?
    • SpacedCowboy, on 10/11/2007, -5/+6@abhiroop:

      I'm not disputing your $1400 claim, but to compare that to a MBP is laughable...

      PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7200 (2.00GHz, 4MB L2 Cache, 667MHz FSB
      - so not as good as: 2.2GHz 4MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB then

      OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium
      - personally I prefer OSX, but let's call this a wash...

      LCD PANEL 15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display
      - so not as good as 1400x900 then (WXGA is 1280x800)

      VIDEO CARD 256MB ATI MOBILITY™ RADEON® X1400 HyperMemory™
      - so not as good as NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT, dual-link DVI (128 or 256 MB)

      NETWORK INTEGRATED 10/100 NETWORK CARD
      - so not as good as the 10/100/1000 network on the MBP

      MEMORY 2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHZ, 2 DIMM
      HARD DRIVE Size: 160GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
      SOUND OPTIONS Integrated Sound Blaster® Audigy™HD Software Edition
      BATTERY OPTIONS 53 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
      WIRELESS CARDS Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N
      BLUETOOTH OPTIONS Dell Wireless 355 Bluetooth Internal (2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate)
      BLUETOOTH OPTIONS ExpressCard Media Remote for Bluetooth-enabled Notebooks
      - all identical

      OPTICAL DRIVE 8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability
      - pretty much the same. The MBP has dual-layer write for bothDVD+R and DVD-R, but...

      I couldn't find the weight and size, but I doubt the Dell is lighter or less bulky. All I'm saying is compare apples to apples...

      FWIW, the above MBP costs $2074 (I bumped the 120GB hard-drive to match the dell's 160GB). Is it worth an extra $670 ? Well that's up to you, but you do get a lot more for that cash, it's not as though it just costs more without any benefit.

      Simon


    • digitalarcanum, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2what's more is if you bump up to the next available Inspiron laptop, you can get nearly everything a macbook pro has and it still be cheaper than a macbook pro by a longshot. This is without the coupons you can find online.
    • Quix, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2"It's not fair to compare a discounted computer with a regular priced computer, but who the hell buys a Dell without these coupons?" - moonboots

      Probably far more people than you think.
    • moonboots, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0I like everybody's biased enthusiasm. I have to admit that I have a e1505, so I'm not an objective voice. However, I think the MacBook Pro has a sleeker look, faster components, and less flab (around two pounds!!) than the Dell. If I see any great deals, I'm not afraid of switching. For now, I'll put up with some lower back aches and a slower computer for the fatter wallet.
  • fasda, on 10/11/2007, -14/+51Bull. After reading this I went to www.hp.com and customized a dv9500t series laptop to as best as I can determine with the same specs (I am assuming also that the apple remote thing is not a tv tunner but even if it is it still doesn't raise the price high enough) and its still a few hundred buck less then a Macbook Pro. Then did the same with a Gateway NX860XL and with a Dell inspiron E1705 the same results. Further more if you wanted you could put an HD-DVD drive in both the Gateway and HP.
    • deadbaby, on 10/11/2007, -30/+18You fail to mention the HP is 7.7lbs, the Gateway is 8.5lbs and the Dell is 8.2lbs. That's a HUGE downgrade from the MacBook Pro
    • fasda, on 10/11/2007, -27/+43I'm sorry, I failed to realize that in order to be good a laptop it had to be light enough so you could hold it in one outstretched arm for extended periods of time. Seriously if you think 8.5 pounds is much to heavy to carry then you desperately need to exercise.
    • jm1234567890, on 10/11/2007, -25/+7But the lighter a laptop is the more other things can fit in the bag...
    • jinxie, on 10/11/2007, -19/+26@ fasda - you've clearly never owned an 8lb laptop and carried it around with you everywhere. the 3 lbs make a huge difference after a while-- especially since most laptop users get a laptop specifically for portability-- so it absolutely is an important factor.
    • potp, on 10/11/2007, -17/+10most mac users dont use their mac as portable lap[tops. they use it at home or in the cafe. the dont use it like business laptop that some owning a lenovo or acer would. so the weight point is a non issue.

      Also the idiotic writer of that article failed to mention acer, toshiba and a few other good laptop manufacturer.
    • Stirk, on 10/11/2007, -7/+14@potp
      The point of weight is an issue for me. I'm a student and believe it or not lugging around an 8 pound laptop gets old very fast. When I shop for a laptop, I always have weight in mind. Now, that's not to say weight means anything to you.
    • abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Weight is an interesting issue, I would never buy a desktop until I moved into a house permanently, right now I am a student living in a dorm, and managing a desktop would be monumental! So I always go for laptops, from what I have seen I travel with it quite a bit, and yes if the laptop is REALLY light it makes a big difference, but in general as long as you use a good back pack its really not that much of a problem.
    • fasda, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1@ jinixe
      I do have a 7.5 pound gateway right now and I do take it to all my classes except for my chemistry labs and I never found it a problem. With my laptop, textbook and a notebook it probably comes to something like 16 pounds. Which in a backpack I can't see being as big a burden that you would want to spend several hundred dollars to save the measly 3 pounds of weight.
    • potp, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1and i get dugg down not for flaming or for saying something stupid but because i said something against the mac. come on you mac zealots will be the death of apple one day.
    • zeero, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1wow you guys are weak. "lugging" around 8lbs? do you all walk 5 km in snow around your campus/work place?
  • XMike14x, on 10/11/2007, -6/+24Why does he have to compare the Apple to the "most expensive" laptops. CyberPower for example... and even dell has cheaper prices then he mentioned.
    • Hubris, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2If you work from the assumption (as the biased article writer appears to be) that Apple hardware is the pinnacle of human engineering, then you should be able to compare it with the most expensive alternatives (because it's a Mac - you should be comparing it with premium equipment) and then rejoice when the Mac turns out looking good.
  • Dumbledorito, on 10/11/2007, -7/+80I'm just curious; CAN Mac lower its hardware costs and still remain profitable (at least, as profitable as it is currently)?

    And why is their RAM so expensive? What is it fabricated from? Crystallized rays of sunshine coated in anodized fairy dust?
    • Aeaus, on 10/11/2007, -6/+24Many companies sell overly expensive RAM, Apple, Sony ($1,000 for 4GBs of ram on an Vaio FZ), etc, probably because they just can :)
    • Fighter2a, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16Computer manufacturers markup RAM like crazy. Just get the cheapest and then upgrade the RAM yourself. I just got 2 gigs for my laptop the other week for under $50 as opposed to paying like $400 extra if I wanted to get 2 gigs when I bought it. That might be an exaggeration I'm to lazy to check.
    • techtvforever, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6damn thats funny man. thats a good point - they prey on the feebleness of their customers who may not be technically savvy and they make it hard to upgrade there mac minis and such
    • jarsfan2k8, on 08/13/2008, -1/+10"Crystallized rays of sunshine coated in anodized fairy dust"

      Holy Crap that's funny!
    • trakais, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2what do you mean by 'their ram'? apple uses hynix sodimm ram which you can buy anywhere for low prices
    • mcdaddy1, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Yes they can make a profit with the lower prices but I think their profits would be lower overall. But its against their business model to lower prices - apple has an elite status that people are willing to pay for.
    • bradleyland, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5"What is it fabricated from? Crystallized rays of sunshine coated in anodized fairy dust?"

      Well, that's a bit of an oversimplification, but basically, yes.
    • outsid3rNo17, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1Rumors are, that the MAC memory... blends!
  • Holyfool19, on 10/11/2007, -36/+16I never considered these pre-built machines to be real computers... If you can't build it yourself, it's just a toy.
    • RCcola159, on 10/11/2007, -13/+18Have fun building a notebook computer
    • deadbaby, on 10/11/2007, -5/+41It's the same exact hardware. You may feel like an ELITE HAXOR because you can screw a motherboard into a case and plug in a stick of RAM or whatever but in reality almost anyone can do it.
    • bardamuclichy, on 10/11/2007, -11/+7I've been custom building machines since I was 14 years old... which was DOS 5.0 days. Any monkey can do it. Although the business I work for does custom workstation builds, we don't bother with notebooks. whitebox barebones from asus and clevo and whatnot are still not priced decently to make more than a couple bucks off of them. Anyway, we're looking at becoming apple resellers/service providers for our residential market but its a bit of a pain.
    • smartmlp, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15Its not like building a car or doing any sort of real electronics work. Building a computer is putting the parts together and if it doesn't work, swap in parts till it does work.
    • tehtopher, on 10/11/2007, -5/+5I actually agree, people who have never seen the inside of their computer rarely consider it to be little more than a toy.

      I'm not saying everyone should custom build but taking a peek inside and spending a few minutes learning which part does what works wonders on how computers are treated.
    • shazbotter, on 10/11/2007, -6/+11@RCcola159

      You can build laptops now. Google whitebook; that's what barebone laptops are being called now. In the last few years asus has been selling whitebooks to consumers directly and even before this it was possible to buy a barebones laptop assuming you could find a retailer that bought them directly from the ODM. Now you know and knowing is half the battle. YO JOE!
    • majortom1981, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0Yes but for some strange reason dells powersupplies sdtand up extremely well if your power utility supplies very dirty power. i have tried buying the best reviewed and also the most expensive powersupplies and they died on me within months. The dells have never had a powersupply die on me. Thats why I buy dell comps for now.
    • Ramble, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Yes, building a computer itself isn't hard but the amount of time and knowledge that does into some of the more advanced stuff is not easy. Since I'm a hardware enthusiast easily the vast majority of my hardware building knowledge goes into what to buy and what not to buy. Unfortunately, brands do make a difference.
    • santaliqueur, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5"I never considered these pre-built machines to be real computers... If you can't build it yourself, it's just a toy."

      Wow, watch out for the electronics genius over here. You're only assembling the computer. You're not building jack *****.
  • zephc, on 10/11/2007, -12/+10Ok, lets all pull out our e-penises and compare.
  • kenvsryu, on 10/11/2007, -33/+6Poor people own pc's.
    • Murdats, on 10/11/2007, -3/+16so what do you own? a mainframe?

      apples are PC's too, the only time apple is not a pc is in their ads where they need a label to make the enemy (after all, 'PC' isnt 1 entity but many(one of which is apple))
    • Gottschalk, on 10/11/2007, -6/+6Well I'm glad you're here to swoop in and dispel us of our foolish notions. We freaking know, ok? Mac and PC are common terms. No one is suggesting they are accurate but calling PCs IBM-compatibles is pretty tiring. No one is impressed that you recently read a Wikipedia entry about the history of the Computer during your middle school study hour and immediately rush in here to tell us all what was up.
  • blaze03, on 10/11/2007, -11/+105Apple users also save tons of money on games.
  • electroWildWood, on 10/11/2007, -19/+1my mom wants a mac. its a sign of the times.
    • fremeer, on 10/11/2007, -9/+19ur mum is a tool. but she is a tool in a larger more diverse workbench of tools
  • elithrar, on 10/11/2007, -6/+12Apple's desktop machines *are* overpriced. I know, I've had one. You pay purely for OS X on those machines; and whilst it provides something of a justification, being very powerful and having some of the best workflow management I've dealt with, the hardware you get for the cost is at a premium -- and a premium that *is* hard to justify, especially with the advent of Ubuntu Studio [which isn't OS X, but it's a step in the right direction] and other OS's. iMacs & Mac Pro's are so incredibly costly it's really not funny, and it doesn't surprise me that people base their perception of Apple of these machines. Which is fair enough, I used to as well.

    On the other hand, the latest MacBooks & MacBook Pros' are actually a lot more competitive, when you consider raw tech specs, screen sizes & resolutions and the actual size of the thing. Probably still a little overpriced [they need bigger HDD's, really] in some areas, but at 1" thick with the ability to work across three OS's [OS X, Windows & *nix variants] on the one machine, they do have some pretty decent benefits. It's hard for me to configure a Dell or a Sony on the Australian stores with roughly similar specs [C2D, 2GB RAM, similar/larger hard drive & dedicated graphics] at the moment, since Inspirons only have GMA950's, and the XPS's are already a few hundred more at base configs.

    Frankly though, it's not a war. If you need raw value and don't need the raw stability & workflow of OS X, then build yourself a decent gaming rig for less. Or if you want to run Office well [like a *lot* of people] because Office 2004 on Rosetta is fscking terrible. If you want something where workspace & security are important, get a Mac. They target two different groups of consumers.
  • Nysul, on 10/11/2007, -6/+7It depends on what you are looking to do. If you want a gaming laptop, the mac pros are comparable. If you just want something somewhat fast for internet and taking notes, then the lowest dell laptop is good enough and much cheaper than the comparable apple offering.
  • stormfurry, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7wheres the real hardware, custom built pc costs??? oh what a good job of comparing "one company's proprietary laptops" to "another company's proprietary laptops" and then going "oh the prices on hardware are about even it just depends on what you do!. see you used to be able to build a x86 system at your will then install OSX on it with proper modification... Jobs realized the lost profit he'd receive from letting you get your own system built and when closed source on that code. He's just as bad as the other company's he just likes to put a nice friendly spin on it. How much have they put back into the BSD archives they used as the core of his system? , How About MS , How about the FreeBSD team?
  • 2shae, on 10/11/2007, -7/+7Why don't you just buy what you want if you have the money.

    I bought an iMac because I like Apple iMac so what if it costs €1600...sure I though about buying a cheaper pc, but now that I actually have my Mac (5 months now) I can really say I like them more than "normal" pc's.
    • AppleSucks, on 10/11/2007, -5/+8Lots of my friends are Apple users and they seem to break powerbooks like they're going out of fashion, out of three of my Apple owning friends ALL 3 of them have sent their powerbooks off for repair MORE than once ALL 3 have had their powerbook REPLACED and one of them has had 4 all in the space of 2 years......
    • 2shae, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@Applesucks:

      weird



  • shazbotter, on 10/11/2007, -5/+7I can't believe the writer of this article shopped at major PC retailers but failed to say anything about building a computer. You can save a significant amount of money and customize your needs better than what ther retailer offers when you build a computer yourself. About a year ago i was shopping for a laptop and I was excited that I could install windows on an apple and still play counterstrike. When i looked at the macbooks the first thing i noticed was that none of the models had a harddrive faster than 7200 rpm. I also noticed that the cheaper models had integrated graphics. I ended buying a barebones laptop from a small retailer and buying all the parts from newegg. The result was a well equipped laptop (2.00 ghz core2duo, 2gb of ram, 256mb Geforce 7600, 100gb 7200 rpm harddrive, 1680x1050 15.4" screen) for a fairly cheap $1200. I find that the specifications are still decent even after a year of use. I will admit though the Macbooks are well designed with a slim 1" height and a weight of 5 pounds. However, the gap in price in my opinion does not account for the lack of customizability or the 0.4" height difference.
    • brstilson, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9You can "customize" a MacBook just the same as you can customize any other laptop.
    • thinkdifferent, on 10/11/2007, -5/+4Now count the number of hours it took you to build the machine & factor that in as part of the cost, since that was time lost actually using the machine. Generally you still come out behind when you build it yourself, due to the labor costs. Granted, it's not out of pocket expenses, but unless you have a lot of time on your hands to goof off rather than work, time spent building a machine is not billable hours & thus is a net loss.
    • shazbotter, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Not true because you're at the mercy of the apple store when it comes to parts -- you can't chose a particular brand of hardware over another. You're limited to what you can choose in the apple store. Sure you could order it from them and swap out parts later but in that case you're paying for parts twice. This would easily be solved if apple sold a barebones version...but they don't. As for labor, when everything arrived it took me less than an hour to put everything together so while i lose out on labor I'm not losing very much. Really, the only thing I'm missing out on is technical support.
    • brstilson, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@shazbotter

      What can you upgrade in any laptop? Hard Drive and Memory, that's about it. MacBooks use standard components for both, so yes, you can go to a store and buy a hard drive and/or memory upgrade for a MacBook, and it will work.
  • totebo, on 10/11/2007, -9/+11I bought a HP Compaq nx9420 in the UK, which is around £500 cheaper than the equivalent Mac Book Pro, and has all the features of it, plus a full-size keyboard. Macs are overpriced. That's one of the reason people buy them. That's just common knowledge.
  • JimmyTheClam, on 10/11/2007, -7/+20Buried as inaccurate.
    Take a look at the cost of any Apple logic board and then compare it to a PC motherboard.
    That alone is 3 -6 times the cost of a similar PC motherboard.

    If you like Macs, great!
    Acting like any of their desktops are approximating the same value of a PC (from low to high-end) is a fantasy.
  • warona, on 10/11/2007, -10/+1i buy me a mac, install bootcamp/parallels and get best of two worlds.
  • Kaijewels, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3As far as Asia and Thailand is concerned, spares for PC compatible computers are far more easily available and cost far less. This is one of the reasons why we prefer to stay with PCs.
  • shalomjt, on 10/11/2007, -2/+23i just hate my life right now....i read all the comments hoping to learn something.
    • AppleSucks, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3
      Hey cheer up it can't be that bad :)
  • AppleSucks, on 10/11/2007, -21/+20
    Don't even get me started........

    Well since I am :)

    The guy who wrote that is obviously a halfwit as many of you have correctly pointed out that he tells the largest segment of the computer market not to read his article.

    LIKE FOR LIKE Apple hardware is ALWAYS more expensive just shop around and you can usually find the same hardware $200-$300 cheaper as a PC and yes if you want to use Photoshop, surf the net and write e-mails then a Mac is fine (not virus free) but fine.

    However if you're like me one of the ooooh lets say 90% of computer users that might want to say play a game god forbid or do something else with our PC's then Apple is expensive and dare I say it useless.....

    I use my main PC as a Media Centre or should that be Center for our friends across the sea and to play games on AS WELL as everything that Mac does. Also I ran Vista for 3 months without any AV software and then with AVAST (which is free no $100 outlay?) and recently I have taken some online courses and even got a copy of 360 free (yep another no $100 outlay there) so the cost of AV software in negligible well it's even less than that it’s ZERO. In the 3 months I used Vista without any AV I had no problems online with what so ever, NO virii, NO spyware/Malware, NO phishing problems NADA, NOTHING. Vista protected me without any issues.

    Unlike Apple users however I don't live with my head in the clouds when it comes to AV software hence I installed the free options. Still I went from having no problems to um still having no problems.....

    I work in IT with 100's of PC's and I haven't seen a BSOD in the last 6 years or so that wasn't caused by faulty hardware and I can could them on two fingers (that's 2 total in 6 years).
    I also use Linux :p
    Apple per se are fine, I'm ok with Apple and they make some pretty neat stuff the only thing that put's me off Apple is that I don't want to join a cult. Right out of the gate the guy writing that article made it clear that he'd been seduced by the dark side and that unless you had too then the article wasn't/isn't for you. Why oh WHY are Apple users so pious, ignorant and so blinkered, WHY??? WHY??? Apple users would be fine if they just shut up and got on with their lives instead of producing countless waves of rubbish like that thinking that since they've been brainwashed we al want to be too.

    Apple users please take note I have had a iPod in the past but I DON'T want a Mac book/pc, I DON'T want MAC OS, I LIKE WINDOWS, I LIKE playing games, MY PC is as reliable and virus/malware free as any MAC, I DON'T use Photoshop (WHAT??? That's right I'm normal my life isn't documented on flicker and I DON'T USE Photoshop), the iPhone looks like a brick (try LG's Prada now that's a nice phone and I just got one off eBay for $80 AND I'M SICK OF YOU ALL BANGING ON ABOUT APPLE.

    There, phew that's that off my chest...... well until tomorrow when ANOTHER brain washed moron with post something dumb....... (yes besides me before you Apple tards start to flame me YAWN)

    I've probably made a few typos too so let’s flame them as well YAWN......
    • MacParrot, on 10/11/2007, -13/+1Nah, I won't flame you for a few mistakes. I try never to make fun of the handicapped.
    • Wartz, on 10/11/2007, -8/+5I dugg you for mirroring my thoughts exactly.
    • majortom1981, on 10/11/2007, -7/+1I dugg you up too . I feel the same exact way.
    • fungible, on 10/11/2007, -6/+3Well, I guess if you were on a mac, you'd have spell check. :)
    • RealityCheque, on 10/11/2007, -7/+8Seems the most vocal Mac haters are video gamer nerds.

      Amazing, to me, because some on here refer to Macs as "toys", yet all they use their computers for is COMPUTER GAMES.

      I use my Mac for business use and tons of video encoding, but almost no games...If you are using a computer for nothing but GAMES, wouldn't that make it a toy?
    • arjung, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1please show me an LG Prada that comes anywhere near $80...

      http://search.ebay.com/ke850_W0QQfromZR40

      (i hate it when people lie trying to prove their point hoping that no one will notice.)
    • Tsakazulu, on 05/13/2008, -0/+0It just show`s that he knows nothing about mac, and i pity people who comments on somethings they thought they knew and lies just to prove a point, moreover, he`s just a gamer and knows nothing about anything but games, and he wants us to think he`s intelligent, he sucks ha! ha!.

  • iamthenoise, on 10/11/2007, -11/+27i own a macbook and a few PCs. After being a life-long PC die-hard (building my own, modding, etc) i got an apple and here's what i've come to: the marketshare on these two types of computer are reversed! The masses should (in my opinion) be using OSX, while PC's (given the bragging points given on this comments list) are like custom instruments for specific purposes.

    I totally get how PC's (in the hands of someone with the time, energy, and resources to get their hands into the box and work on it) are incredibly cost efficient machines....for people with specific needs. a PC set up just for gaming is easy, but not necessary to someone who just wants a simple and elegant basic experience (web use, email, writing documents, photo managing, music managing, etc). Gamers and tech-geeks, while a valid demographic, aren't the majority. A basic cheapo PC (that you didn't build yourself, and most people don't build their own PC's) comes usually bloated with all kinds of craziness, which is often difficult to get rid of. This is the reality of 3rd party involvement.

    Apples are easy....just plug the f*cker in. and you're on your way to a basic experience. Notice I say basic. Nothing crazy or out-there really ever happens on a mac. Just simplicity. Everything is simplified. Sure it comes with a lot of extras too. 99% of them are extremely useful to the common user. However, if you don't like something, YOU SIMPLY DRAG IN INTO THE TRASHCAN AND ITS GONE! can any PC user claim a similar experience? nope.

    But thats just it, if you want a streaming media/gaming machine...and you know your divx from your .vob files, you could definitely build yourself a PC to do the job for a lot cheaper than you could getting a mac.

    Re-learning an OS is a little bit of a pain in the ass too. I get that part. if 85% of the people you interacted with used PC's, its just nonsense to relearn an OS just to sort out possible compatibility issues (by the way, macs play well with PCs).

    I personally hated the fact that you don't get a right-click on a mac....until i plugged in my logitech zillion button mouse, configured it, and was hammering away as fast as I always did. Basically a non-issue.

    Apple zealots suck. But the PC apologists are mostly tech savvy people who could build a PC with their eyes closed.

    My conclusion:
    -Your mom should be on a mac.
    -If you use A LOT of hair gel and love The Crow, build a PC.
    -If you love ProTools get a mac.
    -If you kick serious ass with photoshop or illustrator or flash or any other digital media creation software and want to create content for commercials or movies or anything entertainment related get a mac because thats 99% of what the design houses and post-production houses use.
    -If you kick as with any of the above and want to create gaming content, build a PC, thats what 80% of game content creators use. (the first xbox demo kit was run on a mac, by the way).

    I now stand firm and await the onslaught of PC thrown tomato shaped sprites.
    • AppleSucks, on 10/11/2007, -12/+5
      The first DEMO kit was on a power mac but none of the DEV tools were. SO they USED 1 MAC as a quick fix and never used one again..... Well done.... XBOX MAC
    • iamthenoise, on 10/11/2007, -9/+8just pointing it out for the uninformed....no one with true knowledge of an apple would argue it can outperform a PC at any pricepoint.
    • iamthenoise, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1*could outperform a PC in terms of gaming is what i meant.
    • MacParrot, on 10/11/2007, -7/+6Iamthenoise,
      You make good points, but you'll never convince the Apple zealots and PC flamers that it really makes no difference what platform they choose. For them it's a severe case of "I don't use it therefore it sucks". You see them everyday on digg and they are the ones that can ruin a good post.

      Why not talk about the article you morons?

      Apple does compete and compete well in the market segments they make machines for. Are they always going to be the best priced? No, most of the time you probably could find (or build, if that's how you like to spend your time) a cheaper computer with the same specs. So what? None of those machine can easily run OS X and the software that's available for that platform. Apple is a mass producer, as are Dell, HP, and others. I don't claim any special knowledge or fame just because I use a Mac. Why would anyone (besides the Apple-hating idiots on digg) care what computer or OS I use?
    • jsebrech, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4"Gamers and tech-geeks, while a valid demographic, aren't the majority."

      They're a small minority, but they are the majority of people giving tech support. PC's are popular because "that guy" that people know "who fixes computers", almost always runs PC's, because "they're cheaper", and "they're more upgradeable" and "only windows has the good games" (which are all true by the way). When mom needs a new computer, gamer son is going to turn her onto windows PC's, because that's what he knows how to support.
    • majortom1981, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7You are missing one huge glaring point. People who dont know much about a computer PRICE matters a lot. My gfs parents where looking for a new comp and I showed them the macs then the dells (with a lot of discounts) they almost chocked when they saw the price difference. IT wasnt a small one either.

      Thats the problem. MACS might be easier to use but to most people PRICE is a huge factor.More so to the mass market. Heck just look at the console wars. Nintendo's wii is kicking but because its the cheapest.
    • RealityCheque, on 10/11/2007, -6/+5Getting REALLY tired of all of the "it is easier to upgrade" comments. By "easier to upgrade", you guys just mean "you can change graphics cards and play MORE GAMES!!!1111".

      99.999% of people using computers do not care if they can open the case easily and mess with stuff...they don't want to do that. They want it to just work when they sit down on it.

      There is no reason to use Windows anymore for a home user except for games. With consoles like the XBOX 360 bridging the gap between online multiplayer, it almost seems foolish to buy a gaming computer unless you steal all of your PC games or want to brag online about how 1337 your computer is (i.e. you're a NERD).

      Save up that gaming PC money and buy yourself a sports car; your chances of getting laid will go from "less than zero" to "maybe with a REALLY drunk GUY".

      (Yes, I expect to get dugg down, but it HAD to be said).

    • Lennalf, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3@realitycheque:

      Owning a console is like renting an apartment. Every unit is virtually identical. It's on another party's terms, and there is a strict limit to how much I can make customizations. When I play my xbox 360, I feel almost as if I'm playing somebody else's console. Besides, they can "force" me to upgrade by simply coming out with another system, and I am severely limited by exclusive contracts in terms of what quality titles will be available to me. Blech.

      With a gaming computer, you have control. I pick my hardware, I pick my games from a HUGE list, I pick what servers I use, I pick what software I use, I can customize the crap out of my GUI, I can use any headset under the sun, I can use any kind of mouse and any kind of keyboard I want... it's my machine. And I don't have to upgrade that machine until I feel like it, because virtually any PC game is going to be scalable enough to meet my current hardware configuration.

      So if you really think that Windows Live is going to kill the PC as a gaming platform, you couldn't be more wrong. Bringing console games to the PC will only strengthen the PC, whereas it will not be possible to bring PC games to the console.
    • hollywoodphony, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1This is the first insightful comment made today.
    • Acqua206, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0They way things are made out to be, it would take a rocket scientist to run windows. Seriously, how hard is it to plug in your mouse and keyboard and run windows? Email, a word processor, and spreadsheet. Seriously. If you have comcast, they give you McAfee for free. Yeah, I know it sucks but it should work for most people out there.

      I never understood mac's simplicity selling point. If you the basic points of a PC, then u r dumb.
  • AppleSucks, on 10/11/2007, -18/+10
    Apple lifted most of the MAC OS features from the original Longhorn Spec they just got OS X out quicker. Apple copied Konfabulator for it's Widgets, they paid someone else to design the ipod gui blah blah blah blah I could go on ALL day.......

    Apple users should actually know who Apple are copying before they say that so and so copied Apple.
    • mynameisaj, on 10/11/2007, -6/+2boy, I could of sworn something like that happened to Apple back in the 80's
    • iamthenoise, on 10/11/2007, -6/+2Agreed.
      But that's just where apple seems to pulls ahead. Nearly all of the content used on macs doesn't get out of the building unless it runs perfectly. If somehow, microsoft could get an INHOUSE team to ensure functionality of ALL retail (read as "mainstream", im not talking about small independent programmers, who rock by the way) 3rd party applications (or if they already have one, they need a better one). It might take a little longer for programs to get out, but for the sake of the "it just works" factor, I think the majority of computer users, most of which aren't tech savvy, would not mind the wait.

      in a nutshell, PC's suffer from a too many chefs in the kitchen kind of syndrome...where none of the chefs are paying attention to what anyone else in the kitchen is doing and all the chefs want to be the star chef (a good example of this is the massive variety of PC bloatware). If MS could somehow wrangle it all in and make sure everything just works the way its supposed to, without any intimidating driver-hunting, or having to download one program just so another program will work right....apple would then have a hard run for their money in terms of user experience.
    • MacParrot, on 10/11/2007, -7/+8Wow Applesucks,
      You aren't TOO bitter are you? I realize that you are a gamer and therefore have no use for Macs, but why the hate? Did SJ run over your Mom? Did an Mac user spit in your face? Or are you just a repressed basement dwelling PC gamer (not all gamers are such) who can't relate to the real world.

      I really don't care why you like Windows and wouldn't dream of trying to make you switch. Why do you care who uses Macs?
    • Gottschalk, on 10/11/2007, -5/+6Not that this guy isn't a nutcase (Applesucks as a name is kind of a give-away) but he has a valid point. Apple did not invent everything under the sun just because Apple nutcases believe it to be so.
    • zongamin, on 10/11/2007, -7/+4applesucks you are such a ***** - get a ***** life
    • jeza, on 10/11/2007, -6/+2The Longhorn spec was just stolen from NeXTstep anyway, which was a fully functioning operating system before Microsoft could even have dreamed about those features. Apple then bought NeXT and turned NeXTstep into OS X.
    • goblindegook, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5@mynameisaj: "boy, I could of sworn something like that happened to Apple back in the 80's"

      It didn't, it happened to Xerox (although to be fair, they did get a chunk of Apple stock in return). Both Apple and Microsoft use concepts originally from the Xerox Alto in their operating systems.
    • Ramble, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Don't auto Digg him down even if he does come across as a blithering idiot. he's actually right about a lot of stuff there.
      I've seen a lot of Apple enthusiasts talk about instant search and gadgets, etc. already in Tiger years before Vista. And they're right but lets not forget that Tiger was released in 2004 and all these features were showcased in Longhorn in 02-03.
  • mbthompson, on 10/11/2007, -4/+8FTA:
    "Moving downscale a little, both Hewlett-Packard and Toshiba have models in the $2,000 neighborhood that approximate the MacBook Pro's equipment. The HP Pavilion DV9260US comes with the Intel Core 2 Duo 2-GHz processor, a 240GB 5,400-rpm drive, Windows Vista Ultimate, and a 17-in. screen whose maximum resolution is only 1,440 by 900 pixels (a major drawback). Circuit City's price is $2,000."

    True, however you can upgrade to a 1680x1050 for about $100 or so. How do I know? I have one. He also misrepresents what is available hard disk wise. The 240GB hard drive is actually two independent 120GB SATA disks. So, say you want to edit audio or video, usually you need a faster drive in order to do that, however since you have a drive here that is not being used for OS tasks, you can record directly to that without issue. I have done so. The funny thing is that when I was shopping for a powerhouse laptop, I very seriously considered the MacBook Pro, but the MacBook Pro was $600 more than the HP, and the HP had almost the same if not better hardware. I did an entire write up on it and submitted it to digg a while back, though of course the Apple fanbois weren't too keen on it. Here it is again, sorry for the comment abuse
    http://digg.com/hardware/Why_I_Still_Didn_t_Buy_an_Apple_MacBook_Pro
  • longhairman1337, on 10/11/2007, -11/+7booooo! MAC sucks!
  • mynameisaj, on 10/11/2007, -8/+4Simplicity, Security, Service, Features, etc. is well worth the extra money to me.
  • shahvikram123, on 10/11/2007, -8/+1you get what you pay for, mac os x is a overall better system for the average user.
    • majortom1981, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Like I pointed out on another persons post. To the general public Price is a huge thing for them. Most people do the internet,word processintg and some bejeweled type games. That can all be done easily on a mac or a pc. So price will win out everytime on that.
    • AppleSucks, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1
      I'm an average user and I disagree and since the average user is using windows I think you might just be wrong........
  • iamthenoise, on 10/11/2007, -7/+1By the way, I'd love to see the percentage of purchased PC's which have been brought in for repairs vs. purchased macs brought in for repairs.

    flame me for this, but in star trek next generation terms, using an mac is like using an interface on the enterprise, elegant.....while PC's are what you'd use on the Borg ship, all susceptible to virus based attacks and not pretty at all. but the borg are technologically pimp, no question...they're just soulless and boring.
  • Steeple, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1thread too NOISY TO READ:
    can all the people who've actually been in the same room as a mac please step forward and share your experiences, good and bad, while everyone else just ***** shuts up!
    • WoollyMittens, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3I bought the cheapest intel mac-mini to replace my home-server which made more noise than a passenger-liner. The mac just sits there and works. TV, Bittorrent, eMule, iTunes, Streaming Radio, FTP, HTTP, fileserver.

      All of that just works without any complicated configuration or installation. I am very happy with it and I deplore the rumours of Apple discontinuing the range. I would have bought a Santa Rosa one.
  • WoollyMittens, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2What are we argueing about? People wear Nikes and drink Coca Cola, not because it's better than Wallmart sneakers and brandless coke, but because they always work (the nikes) and taste familiar (the coke). And because the brand is fashionable.

    Yes I know you look very fashionable in your Wallmart sneakers with you can of Super-Cola, but everybody gets to be a little vain, every once in a while.
  • jacenat, on 10/11/2007, -6/+4people buying macs are the same people buying consoles.
    the very same people that come to ask me everytime if they need something technical.
    the very same people always pointing out how their mac looks so nice
    the very same people that have a pc, a tv, a dvd player and a stereo
    the very same people that turn their brain off when i mention everything related to mathematics or even entertainment computer graphics


    look ... noone says that apple makes bad products.
    but some of you really should learn to understand that with a mac, you give up much freedom. thats fine if you don't need it. but when i can't go to the store around the corner, grab a tv-card, install it and watch tv on my rig minutes after, it would be the wrong system for me. same goes for ipods, iphones and itunes. they will never appeal to me, because they lock me in.
    • WoollyMittens, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4"the very same people that turn their brain off when i mention everything related to mathematics or even entertainment computer graphics"

      Way to generalize... thanks. I'll pretend to be stupid now to fit your insightful profile.
    • Gottschalk, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Although this is major flamebait I have had similar experiences. A lot of Apple users don't know how to use computers and they get into just as much trouble on their macs as PCs. I'm sorry but Mac are only marginally more user-friendly than Windows when everything is said and done.

      I mean if you can't deal with XP you are computer illiterate.

      Ok on the opposite side Macs are more popular than ever so please don't have a million techs come at me saying but but but I know all about computers. I'm not saying you don't. Windows has lots of illiterates as well; that's for sure. My point is that these people that don't know what they're doing are not saved by going Mac. From my experience they still come back for much hand holding.
    • AppleSucks, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2
      Good point well made :) hehe

      My Apple 'friend's tried to get me to ditch my PC but a Mac doesn't do what I need it to do and a Vista PC does everything an Apple can and by their own admition more......
  • L33tmaster, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Why is he comparing to Circuit City? The ***** there is overpriced.
    • Optimaximal, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3Maybe because deep-down it helps him make his point so much easier.
  • jedikv, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3FANBOY FIGHT!!!
  • autoy, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1It's funny how hardware actually is worth less when Windows is preloaded.
  • chingy1788, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3$199 Asus Laptop owns all
  • Radan, on 10/11/2007, -4/+4Am I'm the only one who is getting a bit tired of the whole Mac VS PC fight? Especially when it comes to pricing. I like my computer, and I would never buy a PC even if I got it for a buck. But again, I know lots of PC users who like their computers too, and I'm fine with that. Arguing about what computer *someone else* uses is so 20th century.
    • Gottschalk, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4Sorry but you're pretty much a retard. Because I would certainly love to get a mac for a buck even though I use PCs.

      I mean the difference is not THAT substantial for non-business, non-gaming use.

      Oh mine eyes, the Windows UI is too ugly. Give me a break.
    • fremeer, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2lol the guy makes a solid point and the apple fanboy pounces. please go ***** urself and dont talk about the merits of ur fisher price first computer.
    • Wartz, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2Yes you would buy a new pc for a buck, dont lie.
    • Radan, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Please tell me this is not happening. I'm literally chocked about seeing this. In my entire post the thing that catches your attention is that single sentence. Yes, I would buy a PC if someone sold it to me for a buck, but that's not the freaking point! I could as well as just have said "I wont buy a PC because it suxxorz lolzor", but I didn't because I think it doesn't bring the conversation forward. "I won't buy it for a buck" is a freaking saying about how I don't care about the price because I wouldn't enjoy using it anyway.
      Alright just so that you may get your beauty sleep tonight, I'm going to take back that sentence and change it to
      "I like my computer, and I would never buy a PC even if I got it for nine hundred ninety nine U.S Dollars ($999), pre taxes"

      Happy?
  • willgill, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8Funny how he bumped up to the highest laptop models that had many more options than the Macbook Pro just to try and get all the options the Macbook Pro. If you went the other way around, there are features on the $1400 that the Macbook Pro doesn't have, like fingerprint reader, secure card reader, built-in EV-DO cellular access etc.

  • unruled, on 10/11/2007, -3/+11what a biased, innacurate article. Honestly, cmon, try harder next time.
    burried for innacurate.
  • Kwinti, on 10/11/2007, -5/+0They might not have a lower end, but Apple's computers are fairly well-priced for the hardware within.
  • Gottschalk, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6PCs and Macs each have their own respective spheres. I don't mind that, I like it; it makes sense.

    But why is it that these Apple Jesuits have to try to pretend like Mac is a serious alternative for PCs in all cases? I don't suggest that the PC is the best fit for all situations.

    How many more laughable enterprise Mac articles and this piece of crap "Mac is actually price competitive" outright lies are we going to endure in this culture war?

    Let's end the debate forever:

    PC
    Cheaper, more upgradeable, more compatible, general business standard... harder to use, uglier, less secure.

    Mac
    More expensive, less upgradeable, less compatible, specific fields standard... easier to use, prettier, more secure.
  • iLemon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5I thought I was going to read a Mac vs. PC cost analysis from somebody who was serious. Why split hairs over the difference between 2.00 and 2.33 on a laptop with a 5400rpm drive. I am sure the gap is enormous in a synthetic benchmark, but nobody is going to notice the lack of 300mhz, while trying to stream porn over a wireless connection, running off of battery power.
  • PieterOpie, on 10/11/2007, -4/+0Blah blah blah....... PC - good. Mac - better. blah blah.... Me? - Mac

  • chrismag1979, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6I could even get a bnew laptop here right away for $400 here in hongkong.

    Anyway, the articles says "There's a ton of free software. There's a ton of very low-cost software. In fact, there's plenty of Mac software out there".

    Yeah right, TONS OF SOFTWARE if you compiled every Mac software available wayback in the 80's.

    Mac fanboy like him are so irritating, including those who would react and reply to this message of mine. lolz
  • jferrari, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2This article misses one important point, which is why I now use a mac for business..

    Add up all the time you spend getting your PC to work, fixing problems, downloading updates and just dealing with all the general crap you get then work out how much it costs you in time.

    One month of time saved from just general usage will pay the difference.
    • wwwdot1jesdotus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Maybe an hour. And I suspect you use a mac because you don't know how to do all that stuff yourself.
  • kris33, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1PC's are for people that just want a computer.
    Mac's are for people who want to have a good experience using the computer.

    For most people, PC's will be just fine. Mac's are for those who want to have something extra.
  • abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3I had a pretty exhaustive debate going on a little while back about this same question:

    My Laptop: (bought 10 months ago)

    HP Pavillion dv5242ea
    1.6ghz core duo
    1024mb ram
    100gb hard drive
    256mb nvidia 7400
    windows xp home
    DVD Double Layer Super multi drive (reader/writer)
    I paid $1150 for this about 10 months back.

    If I were to look at macbook NOW with similar specs:
    for $1100 the cheapest macbook:
    2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
    1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512
    80GB Serial ATA @ 5400 rpm
    Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)

    The only thing better than my laptop is that it has a far better processor. But considering I bought mine a year ago, its safe to say that mac's are far more expensive. I have a better HD, DVD drive, video memory (apple's is the integrated stuff).

    The following is a dell xps 410 priced at $2499
    Intel® Core™2 Duo processor E6700 (2.67GHz)
    Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium
    1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
    320GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
    2X Blu-ray Drive
    20 inch UltraSharp™ 2007WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
    768MB nVidia GeForce 8800 GTX
    Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio

    This is the imac for $2249:
    2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
    1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512
    250GB Serial ATA Drive
    NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 128MB SDRAM
    SuperDrive 8X (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
    Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X (US English)
    24-inch widescreen LCD
    AirPort Extreme
    Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR

    So for a little extra you get a better processor, WAY better graphics card (the 7300GT costs about $60, and the 8800GTX costs about $60) , bigger hard drive, better sound card, better DVD burner and all you don't get is a monitor 4" smaller! Also increasing the memory on an iMac is far more expensive. Agreed the imac is a compact design, however, other than buying a workstation, this is the only realistic desktop option for a mac.

    It is true apple computers have become cheaper, but I still feel that if I was looking for the same specs, I would get a better deal going with a windows PC.

    As for the ease of use argument, well I've been running XP for about 3 years without any major headaches, the computer boots up in 25 secs and is usable in about 35 secs. Everything runs pretty efficiently (this is on my HP), and I defragment monthly.
    • Vorsuc, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0Agreed, I recently did the same comparisons given it was time to grab a new laptop. Given Apples are on intel now, I really thought long and hard about the path a number of windows devs had taken and grab an apple laptop and throw XP on it.

      Hardware costs just wouldn't add up compared to the big PC brand names though.

      I don't get it, Apple are selling bulk of only a few variants, while the Dells and HPs have to flog AMD and Intel versions of budget, mid range, multimedia, high-end and gaming rigs. Everything points to the fact Apple *should* be able to offer cheaper laptops.. perhaps they're just discouraging riff-raff like myself.

    • abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I've always had this notion (not trying to sound pompous or elitist) that apples are made for the "upper-class", of course everyone buys them, but it seems to me as though the apple computer is a luxury item. Its something you see in movies on a rich hotel owners desk, together with his LG prada phone and/or vertu, plus a rolex or omega. Just something to think about.
  • richardiscool, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4Right, I haven't read the article, and I've skipped through the comments without reading it.

    I'm going to make a guess, that seeing as this is Digg: Apple won.
    • kris33, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I hate that somebody always have to win. Why don't they get it? PC's and Mac's are great at different things. You can't simply say that one is better than the other.
  • slapthemonkey, on 10/11/2007, -5/+1Good article.
  • RandoTheKing, on 10/11/2007, -4/+5I stopped reading after........ "Mac vs. PC cost analysis: How does it all add up?
    Everybody knows PCs are cheaper than Macs, right? Wrong!"

    You can build a PC with the same computing power as any mac for half the cost.
    • kris33, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2That's a little bit correct(half the price is exaggerated), but not everything is about computing power. Mac's have a better build quality than most PCs. The iMacs also have another form-factor, and that cost money(similar PCs usual cost much more). They also have a better OS.

      Chose what you like best. Quality or price.
    • ylikone, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2You are right. Even if the parts you use to build are not the highest quality, what does it matter? As long as it works for you for the next 2 years, at which point your computer will be outdated and you'll need to be upgrading to be able to run the newest software.

      PCs give choice. A lot of it. I always install ArchLinux on my new PC because I'm a Linux enthusiast and love that particular distro, I couldn't do that with a Mac.
    • kris33, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1Actually you can install linux on mac's, just like you can with normal pc's. Some of the things, like wifi, still have no proper driver though.
  • thornnd, on 10/11/2007, -7/+1For $599 you can buy a next generation Apple portable computer with full OS X, wi-fi, rotatable portrait/landscape monitor, and full touch screen operation. You'll be able to buy them starting June 29th, and they are called iPhone.
    • Wolfspirittt, on 10/11/2007, -5/+0Full OSX? LOL You haven't done your research. Try again.
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