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- c4mden, on 10/12/2007, -1/+42It seems to me that if you're going to discredit the claim that macs are overpriced, you would actually have to compare the price to something other than itself.
- zuggie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25Um. Duh.
Although the price of Macs probably have gone down over time, they haven't gone down nearly as fast as comparible PCs. So even though macs are cheaper now than they were, they're still in 2001 pricing land in comparison to PCs. - Cander, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22Here here. As usual they have completely missed the issue by a mile and didn't even bother mentioning how PC prices have dropped considerably as well.
- guytoronto, on 10/12/2007, -13/+32I can pick up a brand-new PC desktop for $400CDN, and a brand-new PC laptop for $650CDN. If all I need a computer for is internet, word processing, and downloading BitTorrent, Apple can't begin to compete.
- Oakes, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21Really? It looks like prices went up in the most recent year.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17Um...computers are getting less expensive?
Surprise. - andydumi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16i think they need to put on that chart the price of a pc over time. Then we could see that they are still overpriced and our complaints are valid.
it matters not that the price has come down, its a matter of has the price come down relatively to the competition? - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14PC's aren't necessarily cheap in quality, but if you want a superb quality machine, then the price starts to get closer to that of Macs. Mac users don't like it when people generalise about Apple prices, so it'd probably be good if you didn't generalise about PC's :)
- habitat2050, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Another 20 years and I'll actually be able to afford one
- synd, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17MAC != Mac
- Arramol, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10"PCs are cheap in both price and quality. Period."
Not at all true of the hardware, and only partially true of the OS. Mac users tend to dramatically over-exaggerate the flaws in Windows. I honestly can't remember the last time I had a serious virus/malware problem, and I spend maybe a few minutes every week or two on security. No big deal. Furthermore, you keep assuming PC = Windows. I've typically had excellent experiences with Linux as long as I'm not gaming or doing something which requires specialized software...and for those two tasks, I still have XP. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Hmm, I don't have any actual numbers handy, but if I recall, my father's first PC was about $5000, adjust for inflation over the last 26 years and you're looking at an 8086 that cost somewhere near $12698.29 in today's money. Now I can get a MUCH more powerful PC for $399 .
- evildorko, on 10/12/2007, -12/+20@ guytoronto:
actually, the thing is that apple isnt even trying to compete with a pc like that. the nearest thing to a barebones system that apple sells is the mac mini and even that contains a lot more than the barebones pc you can pick up for that cheap. - anti_hax0r, on 10/12/2007, -17/+24@ ab2650
What does Apple do that Windows doesn't do (well or at all?). Just because Apple apps wipe your ass and tell you that you are pretty, doesn't mean it's better.
Thanks for passing on Apple FUD!!! - neuropsychguy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10The author didn't even adjust for inflation - it wouldn't be that hard to do and it would just make his point better.
- patience, on 10/12/2007, -11/+18Why delude yourselves. Unless you are a graphic designer or a professional in some context, you are overpaying for a white paint job.
PCs are cheap. Macs are expensive. Period. - Odiwan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9From the article: "Whether Steve saw the coming explosion of portable computing or just knew Apple was pricing their machines out of the market is unclear,"
He got it from first hand experience, with the overpriced NeXT computers. - rynoon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Perhaps the prices went down because pretty much all hardware components for popular architectures have become cheaper to produce over the years? Just a guess.
They still don't provide as much bang for your buck as PC's do. - gharding, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I use Terminal.app. Do you have any idea how useful it is to be running in a Unix-based environment when you're working with Unix servers? Setting up SSH keys is a joy in OSX.. because ssh is built right in! With Windows, you need Pageant and PuTTY (neither of which are included with Windows). When I'm developing on a Mac, I find it easier to replicate my dev server environment (hell, sometimes eliminating the need for one). Spotlight rocks.. I've never found anything in Windows to launch anything nearly as quickly. Installing programs rocks.
I don't game. I don't create music. I'm not a graphics designer. I don't create home movies. I'm a programmer. I love my Mac. - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4To be fair, the prices of all electronics have probably fallen an equal amount in the same space of time. I do think Macs are cheaper (well, better value) than people give them credit for, but without comparing it to prices of other similar products, these graphs don't prove it or indicate it.
- joelsp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I'm a mac user. But this kind of makes sense. I would imagine this trend has applied to PC maufacturers across the board over time.
- chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3that was hilarious! and insightful!
/dumbass - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't think there's many Mac users that would disagree they paid more for their machine than a comparable PC. It's PC users not agreeing that there's valid reasons for paying more for a Mac that's the problem.
- dougmc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3`Now the same computer would only go for about $150-200.'
Yes, but that's not a very fair comparison -- yes, we know that computers depreciate. I'm hard pressed to think of anything that depreciates more, beyond a car as it drives off the dealer lot. (But then the depreciation slows greatly -- overall, a PC depreciates faster.)
However, the cost of a new computer, be it PC or Mac, has dropped nicely over the years, especially when you consider inflation. My Apple II cost us around $2000 back in 1980 or so (in 1980 dollars), but now I can get a reasonably good computer for $500 (in 2006 dollars.)
Yes, macs have gotten cheaper. So have PCs. I'm not sure what point the guy was trying to make. - christianw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2he would reply again but hes aparently too busy running ad aware, spybot search and destroy, ewido, and avg at the moment
- EiCCA, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The price of technology has gone down in general over time - that's what happens when people find more efficient ways of making things. You could say that the price of a PC has gone down too, but the point still stands that Macs are just more expensive than a PC with comparable hardware.
- TheCount, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"in the PC world quality is directly proportional to price. With "budget boxes" the point is usually to stuff the cheapest components they can get away with"
Umm, No. The point of the budget box is to save money by building a comparable machine while searching for good deals on individual parts.
Believe it or not, the QUALITY of a $500 build and a $2000 in the pc market are very similar. The main difference is features. - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@dougmc:
"Yes, macs have gotten cheaper. So have PCs. I'm not sure what point the guy was trying to make."
The point is that it is a two step process.
First, you have to prepare the ground by pointing out that prices have dropped.
The reason for this is that there are still people wandering around talking like a mac mini costs $10,000.
Look at the reaction to the Dell vs Mac Pro comparison. You still had people vehemently denying that the Mac was cheaper, marking those posts as inaccurate and so on. Even though the numbers were right in front of them.
You can't just get rid of such an entrenched world view in one go. You have to chip away at it.
In order to have a good discussion we need to get those people out of 1996 and into 2006 - DarkSideofMoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2iLife is an excellent package - to anyone who has actually sat down and used it (I hate people who ***** about their 'review' they gave it at Best Buy or Circuit City) will realize how great it is designed... and it comes free with every Mac!
All the apps talk together seamlessly and seem to flow nicely together (Make a song in GarageBand -> Send to iTunes -> Make a film in iMovie with the song -> Export to iDVD for example... all in a short couple of hours or an afternoon).
To me it was the greatest selling point to switching to the Mac. There's literally no suite like it on the Windows side that is so elegantly produced. Show me one.
However use the right tool for the right job. If you need something in Windows, go ahead and use it! In this case, the Mac OS is much like iLife... well integrated and well thought out. I can't speak enough about iLife and OS X. - simongabriel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2To use the car metaphor, a mac is like a BMW. It's a nicer car, it has more luxuries, it drives nice, etc. A PC is more like a Honda. It's not as luxurious as the BMW, it doesn't have all the extra bells and whistles, but guess what? It still gets the job done. And this is exactly why Steve Jobs will never release OS X for purchase without a computer. It's about the experience. It's about owning a "BMW". He doesn't want market share to be higher than others. He wants it elitist. That's their selling point, and it won't ever change.
Not that it's bad either way. But that's a pretty accurate metaphor. - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Buried as innacurate. Macs are becoming more affordable and cost competitive, but this article does nothing to prove that. The price charts are interesting but the story is rubbish.
- mozzep, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Wtf were they thinking with a 10,000 dollar computer in the early 90's? No wonder they were in doing so poorly financially.
- metamorphilia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My next computer will be a Mac due to the new Intel chips, but...
Just because the prices go down over time doesn't mean they're not overpriced. Sure, it's what the market will bear, and I will eventually be part of that market. But they're still damned expensive. You know you're paying for the name, basically, like buying a Toyota vs. a Kia.
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Wow, simongabriel, great minds think alike! - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I certainly wouldn't say iLife justifies the extra cost of a Mac at all.. I mean it's only like $60 to buy the package anyway, isn't it? But it is kind of symbolic about what a Mac is. Everything works. It's simple. It's refined. It does it out of the box. It's ready. For me, the extra cost is worth it for OSX - I'm not a fanboy, but I do think OSX is superior to Windows. The build quality of the machines is superb and yes, you can get that with PC's too, but for that quality the price heads towards that of a Mac anyway. There's plenty of reasons why the cost of a Mac is justified though, iLife is just one of the more minor ones :)
- cmilki, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3There's a huge change for the desktops compared to the laptops.
http://applematters.com/images/uploads/mpchart1.gif - eN1X, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2PC prices have gone down too...quick let's make a digg headline about it! While we're at it, let's praise Linux about something stupid too! Seriously people....think about what I just said...
- gharding, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Oh, and the UI just rocks. Simple, appealing, intuitive, and non-buggy (which is more than I can say for "insert open-source desktop environment"). The taskbar on my Windows workstation is 4 rows high. On my Apple, the dock would be 60 pixels wider than usual when not hidden.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Oh, another big selling point of a Mac is its resale value. How many PC's would sell for nearly half their original retail price when 4 years old? Many Macs do just that. They hold their value well, which is a big benefit if you plan on selling your old machine at some point.
- apotropaic, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Well I'm not expert in chart reading but I believe that prices won't change for another 3 years and macs will be 5x the price after that.
Even if apple computers where the same price some how as a PC I was looking at I've also go to look at the long run. Upgrading a mac is not pleasant or cheap. It will void your warranty.
The reason I won't buy a mac is because I can't build a clone!
I could care less about the looks! Its all in your heads dummies. - Llan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wow, that most be the worst charts ever. No word how they were done. Correction for inflation? What will this tell us then? Extremely bad article...
- Morky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I have a consumer Sony HD video camera and I have a Mac. I didn't need to buy anything else and I have really nice tools to edit my video..and that was summer '05.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5A *lot* of people use that software. I can't count the number of musician pages which say 'created in Garageband' or some similar text. I assume you meant iMovie rather than Final Cut (which is a pro app), and again, you are wildly underestimating how many people find it useful to have a simple drop and save movie editing program (Windows Movie Maker is good too). iPhoto is once more the definitive photo program for many users, who don't need much more than it offers for their photo management. Those apps are extremely worthwhile for many Mac users. They aren't Pro apps and have never been sold as such, though.
P.S: Face it, OSX *is* more secure out of the box whether you like it or not. - rm999, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Since 2000 the price of a mid-line PC has halved (2000 to 1000). A high-end pc is also about 50% cheaper (going from about 4000 to 2000). Compare that to a less than 10% decrease for Apple according to these charts.
Marked as inaccurate, not because the statement "mac prices have gone down over time" is wrong, but because it is misleading. Apple's *may* be a good value, but they are not priced low. - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Oakes: It looks like the prices rise for a while, then fall below the starting point. I suspect that's what happens when new revisions are introduced, which is exactly what has happened in the past year. If the prices keep the current trend, by this time next year the prices should be well below the prices they started at (and probably with improved components too).
- nalf38, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7I wonder if Mac diehards really use all the free software that is supposed to be so great. Garage Band, Final Cut, anyone? Please, this isn't a troll, but someone please tell me what has the Mac got usability-wise (besides eye candy) that another OS doesn't? Any Winblows user can run iTunes. And please spare me the 'OSX is more secure' arguments.
- xr56n44, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1apple and its sycophants claiming apple Macs are cheap is like the bush administration claiming there's WMDs in iraq. they lie lie lie attempting to deny the reality of the situation. fact is that i can build my own PC for a fraction of the price of Mac. and also fact is that the only "real" PC is one with expansion slots on the motherboard, and that starts at $2500 for a mac pro. any price comparisons should be made on this level, not the pathetic unexpandable ***** mac mini or imac, cos those are toys not serious computers. just the issue of choosing my desired video card is enough for me to stay far far away from that all-in-one garbage.
- rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2That is bizarre.
Even if you hate OS X, you can still install Linux or Windows on it... Do you just not have any need for computers at all?
Or maybe you are a Dell/Lenovo fanboy (sucks to be you!) or an AMD fanboy.
Or... are you saying you're perfectly happy with your current computer and have no need to upgrade in the foreseeable future?
If so, you may have a point. Frankly, if I was still on Windows, I'd still be on Windows 98. It did everything I wanted. I could write software, I could run open office, I could browse the net, I could play games.
I guess If I was an OS upgrade junkie I'd have to keep throwing out the hardware every couple of years. - Arramol, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"As in many economic areas, you get more or less what you pay for. Period. If that were not the case, Apple would have stopped existing a long time ago."
That argument cuts both ways. You could just as easily look at Apple's sales and conclude that their price/performance ratio is what's keeping them at such a small market share. It's certainly one of the main reasons I'm not switching any time soon. - christianw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2how many times do i have to post my findings and research on this topic? you guys are on your own this time. I know which ones cheaper and im buying a second machine here soon because of it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Newsflash-- PC prices are getting cheaper too.
Why must Apple fanboys try and put a spin on news in order to make it sound like something it's not.
Why can you not simply agree that a PC user can buy a faster and more up to date machine for two thirds of the cost which can run more software 'out of the box' and can be upgraded at the users behest?
"Turns out all those Mac's are over-priced conversations are for naught. Check out the charts!"
How has THAT got anything to do with the actual news article itself? Gucci handbags! £5 off! Any layman can have one now! -
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