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42 Comments
- virtualball, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Optimize and support are two VERY different things...
- danielandrews, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16Sounds like marketing mumbo jumbo to me.
- drlha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Well we've known they were imminently coming for the last month or so, its not like its a surprise. You still have a kick ass machine, so don't be too sad.
- mikev, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9This movie is probably older than you.
Hop on any modern Mac running Tiger, come back, and rethink your comment.
Thanks. - ascheinberg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Probably. Bring it back to the Apple store and try to "return it." Tell them you intend to buy a new one. You're within 30 days and can still return it even if they say no.
- se1zure, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7i belive apple has a (i want to say 1 week re) return policy if your product becomes replaced immeditaly after it's purchase.. at least they do for ipods.
- SgtBeavis, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I would like to get some specifics before jumping for joy.
However the author did make one truly valid point. Microsoft hasn't done anything with XP to optimize it for dual core use, let alone for the Core2Duo. - zwilliams, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Interesting how this enchancement will play out. As a Mac Pro owner, I'm curious how this will affect my machine. The OpenGL multithreading was added back in 10.4.7 for Mac Pros, and then added to the 10.4.8 update that was widespread.
- bleonard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5What kind of features do these new enhancements take advantage of that were not capable before?
- virtualball, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I've said it SOO much times before and I'll say it again, do not expect a C2D MacBook. The MacBook and the MBP were way to close to each other for one to be a high-end and one to be a low-end machine. It was just a matter of time until Apple widened the gap for profits. Seriously, the MacBook isn't meant to be a pro machine, its basically meant to be a mobile Mac Mini for college students, don't expect it to be a gaming machine that goes 2.33 Ghz just because it isn't the newest technology. *Goes back to using his MacBook :)*
- Reno582, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6the article's author is surely an idiot but really Core2Duo Macbook Pro? Who didn't see that one coming?
- skoles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4In most cases you can call Apple or take it to an Apple store. You have 30 days to return your computer opened or not.
- subneural, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9I switched to a c2d iMac about 3 weeks ago - absolutely no regrets so far! I even parted out the XP machine it replaced.
- t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Put the old CPU back before you get it fixed for warranty.
- Dash24, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I just received my MBP about 4 days ago in the mail. I'm assuming my laptop does not include the upgrade, anyway to switch it for the upgraded one?
It's a bummer to spend so much money and immediately see an update. - StatusQuoRules, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Is it not 14 days?
- drlha, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I assume this means they're shipping with the multithreading OpenGL implementation they put on the Mac Pros.
- gizmogear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2SSSE3 instructions.
- gsnedders, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2As of Tiger, GCC 4 (although slightly patched, to add support for things like Objective-C++).
- DCstewieG, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Yeah, same here. Not saying this is the case, but maybe Windows has always been able to do this. I don't know for sure but I bet the author doesn't either. Makes the statement "Can Microsoft make a claim that their current shipping operating system Windows XP has been enhanced to leverage the Intel Core 2 Duo? Quite simply; No." fairly presumptuous.
- SVPirate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A) That's not multi-threading that's multi-tasking. It ain't the same.
B) This is very little to do with the OS or the hardware, more that the software you used to test the theory is not equally well written for OS X and XP. Certainly in the case of Yahoo! the OS X version is quite dated. Firefox has always taken a while to load in OS X on any hardware - it's just the way the OS X version was written (or should I say botched). Try loading some of Apple's native Intel apps on the same machine and the difference is less pronounced.
You might want to read up on the definition of a 'fair test' sometime, while you are at it look up the difference between multi-thread and multi-tasking. - godindav, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1So does this mean us with only the first gen Core Duo Imacs our out of luck? That would really suck.... I wish we could upgrade the processor and keep our warranty etc.
- jonshipman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A Patch is something you download/apply. Apple is optimizing the MBP's before they are shipped. Much like 10.2 was optimized for G5's when they first came out. Meaning the OS restore disks won't work on a CD MBP and likewise the restore disks from a CD MBP won't work on a CD2 MBP and for technical reasons not a silly prompt that says you can't.
- iXam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What compiler does Apple use for compiling its kernel and own programs?
- maninblac1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I'm surprised he even mentioned a Mac PC argument here. Cause it's ludicrous to compare. The computational advantages offered by the Core 2 are simply the SSE4 instruction set (ignoring the other performance increases, as far as instructions go, everything is still the same except SSE4). Hence why the advances and optimizations are most noticed in multimedia applications, like final cut pro etc.
And of course MS can't claim optimizations for XP or even Vista, if Microsoft said, we're going to use SSE4 instructions in our new OS, now anyone who doesn't have a Core based microprocessor CAN NOT run the operating system. Which for microsoft eliminates 99.9% of their customer base. The baseline requirement for XP is SSE (intro. 1999). Which means you can run an XP machine on a PIII or better. Can't say that for a MacTel, if you don't have SSE3 (ie prescott P4+), well you can't run it....period. And the newer optimized tiger may require SSE4(possibly). Only in the apple world can you get away with enforcing hardware advancement via software like this, if microsoft forced this upon it's users, the world would scream, so MS doesn't. Even the fuss about the graphics in vista, i can get Aero Basic to run on integrated intel graphics just fine, so i'll hear none of that all new hardware crap. I can't imagine how vista would perform if it included all the advanced instruction sets like OSX, nothing quite like a peashooter and a shotgun.
And lastly, from the kernel standpoint, the NT kernel is a better system for managing multiple data structures. NT was designed to handle "multi-thread" while UNIX was designed for "multi-process", multi-threading is much much harder than multi-processing from the developer's point of view, but has enormous advantages when done right. UNIX simply doesn't have the concept design to handle the multi-threaded environment like NT was made for, which does it better in the end, i don't really care, but they were both designed with two different philosophies in mind, if you don't believe me, check out the channel9 interview from the MS kernel engineer, he was born on UNIX.
However, in the end i'm not surprised to see an "optimized" OSX, that's kinda of expected. - StatusQuoRules, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Put the old CPU back before you get it fixed for warranty."
It's a shame they aren't socketed. lol - count_z, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@virtualball
Well according to the benchmarks by the likes of Anandtech, Tom's Hardware and Hard OCP, there is a performance boost in Windows when going from the Core Duo to the Core Duo 2 (thanks to the enhanced SSE and floating point arithmatic). When the above sites benchmarked the then new Core Duo 2 processors they used Windows-based benchmarks.
Since no one knows what these OS X "enhancements" are yet (and it's really the applications more than the OS that will need to better support the enhancements... though they will automatically), isn't it silly to use this as Apple propaganda? Heck even Apple hasn't made a paricularly big deal of it (and they've been using the Core Duo 2 for a while now in their iMacs). - maninblac1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Uh, there's a difference between the x86 tiger and the PowerPC tiger, in terms of instructional sets there is no difference between the G4 and G5 (just better hardware/processing, it's hard to explain it if you don't know microprocessor architecture). However, this means OSX for PowerPC will run on older PowerPC hardware. This is not the case in the x86, now as i may note, i said "possibly" this newer optimized tiger would take advantage of the SSE4 instruction set, and once again that would remove support for that version of tiger/leopard on the Intel Yonah based Macs. So, it's only an off chance, and would be a very bold move on apple's part if they were to limit the hardware base for this "new tiger" or even leopard.
So where do i get it from, the horse's mouth, if apple is in fact optimizing for the new memroms ie. core 2 duo's then that's what they'd have to do increase the use of SSE in tiger or use SSE4.
However, in reality we must note, because the SSE execution cycle time on the memrom is 1 cycle and not 2 like on netburst, you'll already see "double" performance (or so) in multimedia rich applications, so you ask yourself, is apple really optimizing anything, or does the hardware just do it for them. - maninblac1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You're somewhat right SVPirate, however the OS is critically responsible for scheduling processor time for each program. If the OS does a poor job of this, total system performance will fall.
UNIX should in theory out perform NT in this test because UNIX was "multi-process" designed, so juggling two apps is what UNIX does best.
And as for fair test, you're right, but he tried, and i'd be pretty sure that his XP is more bogged down than his OSX. So give him so leeway on the testbench. - zodieman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Now is the time to buy a MacBook Pro. Anytime they come out with a first attempt at a new model is going to be trouble. Apple does not test their hardware designs outside the company which means first-time buyers are the guinea pigs. Problems show up and they fix them as they arise in model revs. By the time they update the new models with new CPUs/motherboards things settle down. It's always been this way and always will.
//I'm waiting for a Core 2 Duo MacBook before I buy one. - lumbergh, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Even though I'm a Mac fan I'm still a little disgusted by the blatant bias of the source. Regardless, OS X is a fine operating system on a fine machine (that also dual boots into a wicked speedy windows installation). Slightly offtopic, the latest versions of Parallels are noticeably faster, too.
//mac addict with a recent intel mac
///now an ES4: Oblivion addict too - 21chrisp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Somehow... OSX still runs great on my 6 year old G4. In fact it runs quite well... even better than OS9, which the machine shipped with. It didn't use to get the nifty core animation effects.. until I upgraded my video card. From what I understand.. Leopard will STILL run on this hardware. So... I really have no clue where you get those ideas from. You're actually saying that Apple should support Intel hardware that was out years before it used Intel chips?? That's like criticizing MS for abandoning it's customers by not supporting the G4.
- Essefgy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1It's just a press release, guys.
- KeiichiMorisato, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Amazing gullibility of some Mac users.
As a user of Mac AND Windows, I can relate to the multithreading performance of XP SP2 as being superior to that of Mac OSX 10.4.
Simple test:
When I boot my Mac Mini in XP I can load (from idle state) Firefox and Yahoo Messenger one after the other and the load almost immediately.
Try the same experiment in Mac OSX and you see that little jumping around of the icons before the programs finally load. - ubermorph, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2In Windows, it's a patch, in OS X it's an enhancement.
Right. - lumbergh, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Did you not think they were going to imminently update the macbook pros since they already updated the imacs? This was not exactly a surprise. I myself have been waiting for these, now I will buy one.
//always wait till right after they offer a new one and then buy the most expensive one you can afford- you will never go unhappy - donkeybeach, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3THANKS STEVE :)
Mine is on its way
uber pwnage f001z - borninda818, on 10/12/2007, -13/+9I'm guessing that's why it took them so long to finally release it. This is a good thing
- Dylan1077, on 10/12/2007, -15/+9Horray for Macs!
- dakboy, on 10/12/2007, -15/+7What "optimizations" are you looking for? XP already supports multiple CPUs, just like its predecessors in the NT line did.
- noseeme, on 10/12/2007, -15/+4HA. I called it!!!
(Does a Stephen Colbert dance) - bsdbudha, on 10/12/2007, -13/+0Best video on a Mac I've seen...a MEgA Laugh Laughing Laughing Laughing
Here guys :
http://viral.lycos.co.uk/attachments/1986/mac2.wmv
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