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38 Comments
- GawtMilk, on 10/12/2007, -5/+25OSX has business tools.
XP has creative tools.
Both companies have target demographics that they want to push. - robdazomba, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Troll troll troll your boat...
- nerd05, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I think one of the biggest problems with a business switching to Macs is migrating data that is on proprietary software. It's not an issue that individuals see, since music, documents, web bookmarks, etc. are all pretty open and interchangeable from computer to computer. However, when you have a proprietary windows only system that's managing your data, you kind of get stuck.
- BHopkins, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17My business uses only Mac's and we've found all the apps we need without having to run Parallels or any PC apps.
- tracydanger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Mainly dugg so that when I start a business, I can check back here to see what tools I'll need. Might as well dream big.
- robdazomba, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I so rarely see people acknoweldge what you're saying but it's the truth.
And unfortunately, from what I've seen, almost all proprietary business software is Windows-only. It sort of makes me shake my head when I hear Mac fans talk about the bright prospects of business software on Macs because there is Office or MYOB or whatever. That's not what people mean by business software. There are thousands of development companies out there making their living creating highly specific systems that run businesses and track data. These aren't things you find on the shelf, and because they target high-end business needs and those businesses are almost invariably Windows-based, there isn't even the slightest thought given to a Mac (or Linux) version. It's all Windows.
There is tons of business data out there managed by Windows systems. That's not going to change anytime soon. Small and mid-size businesses may be able to get by with Macs but larger businesses aren't moving to Macs. And I agree that OS X is a superior OS, but it's just a fact of life. Windows is so entrenched in business that it's part of the culture. It's a given. - ggko, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Interestingly enough, the Apple ]['s killer app? Visicalc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application
http://www.bricklin.com/visicalc.htm
http://www.pbs.org/nerds/part1.html
(search for "Dan Bricklin" and start reading there.)
"I remember showing it to one [accountant] around here and he started shaking and said that's what I do all week, I could do it in an hour" - Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Macs were originally marketed as business machines that required minimal training to use and increased productivity. Geez, get some history, people. Apple ][ was the home kit.
- Kingconsulting, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I'll have to disagree with that. I've been in business for over 8 years. I support Small Business Server for numerous clients and their workstations. I switched to Macs 2 1/2 years ago. I've run this business, supporting Windows users, on Mac's since that time. I enjoy the ease of the way apps work plus the power of Unix all built in.
- Zorlen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2seSales is a Point of Sale application that handles rentals just fine.
http://www.zarrastudios.com/ZDS/seSales.html - robdazomba, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Aww... what's wrong? Can't afford a Mac working at Burger King?
- WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Until licensing costs for keeping up with MS software become cost-prohibitive, or a new version of Windows breaks their custom apps... It's silly to think businesses are incapable of migrating if they have enough incentive.
- brianez21, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Zeph?
You said that on the last thread, funny then - not now. - LoveTheCoast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'd like to see a definition of "record numbers" -- I mean, if you went from "0 to 1" that would be a record, as would "5,000 to 10,000". Using this phrase without backing it up is a common practice used by scammers.
As to the topic at hand, I hope Mac (and Linux) continue to gain marketshare -- more competition is always good for the pocketbook and for new innovative features. - hobbit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I would have to disagree, Novell eDirectory is more powerful than Active Directory. And while Apple's own Open Directory is based on Open LDAP & Kerberos its modular and has plug-ins capable of integrating with all of the major Directory Services on the market.
Back on topic ...
I would agree the quantity and quality of Macintosh accounting applications needs to improve. For personal finances I use gnucash 2.0.5, its free, and it has an XML file structure so my data isn't trapped. The source code for both Quicken and QuickBooks should be binned; truly awful software we've put up with for far too long.
Sorry for the comment abuse, but if you're looking for financial software in the Point-of-Sale category; you really owe it to yourself to check out Xsilva's LightSpeed (http://www.xsilva.com/). - GawtMilk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This isn't a joke! I dialed the number, gave them all my money, and as promised, I am now a multi-millionaire! Thanks! I'm glad you typed in LARGE CAPITAL LETTERS. I might have missed this once-in-a-lifetime deal!
- yoshokun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2While I am a fan of Apple, I think that article illustrates the biggest failure of Apple in business - no notable enterprise tools. Apple Remote Desktop is a great tool, don't get me wrong, but the plethora of network admin tools that are available for Windows overwhelmingly out-shadows the handful of apps available for the Mac enterprise admin.
One could argue that a Mac network wouldn't require as many tools, and I would agree, but the fact of the matter is that Active Directory is still the best game in town with the competition at a distant second (sorry OpenLDAP).
All this article proves is that Mac is great for the < 50 employee small business types needing generic tools and the noticeable lack of enterprise tools only further highlights the fact that they don't exist. - ModernGeek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3@WiseWeasel:
I am a big mac and linux fan myself. I develop web apps on OpenBSD/Apache/MySQL/PHP servers, and run a Mac as my main box. There are no Windows machines in my home. I run QuickBooks on my mac to run my business. However, once you get into the real world, you will start to notice that a lot of businesses that have been around for a long time are running very proprietary programs with very messy databases and flat files behind them. And just because the backend is based off of SQL (Which can be something horrid like Watcom SQL), doesn't mean it is just a snap of the finger for the business owner to write a new program (unlikely) or pay a programmer $75/hr (more unlikely) or switch to an open source program with no support (yeah....) that will use the same backend as their old program and automatically migrate everything over. Real business owners don't want to worry about their software, and as long as their windows stuff works, they are unlikely to be thrilled to convert to another system. - superalamar, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Why does every post like this have to contain trolls baiting apple fans into dogmatic regurgitation?
- gobbo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2And yet, there are no decent POS systems for a retail rental outfit. A niche that's plenty full on the Windows side. Lots of other examples like this. Still, people are working on filling in the gaps, the platform is growing. At least there's virtualization software for those hard-to-reach apps.
- confusednazgul, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3God, don't PC fanboys EVER get sick of coming to these posts just to wank? You people make me want to trash my PC just out of spite.
- Callaway7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm sure it's quite possible for a number of companies. I don't think the issue is so much finding the apps, it's more about change and dealing with it. You have to retrain folks to a certain extent (support, administrative, operational, etc). Even if the OSX equivalent is not that much different, people in general can be a real pain in the ass when it's just the smallest of changes. So do we keep paying money and moving along as we are or do we do a complete turnaround and risk upsetting the monotony of everyone's daily lives?
- WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -9/+8XP has games. Vista has... compatibility issues... (TFTFY)
- beijingdave, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2The irony is that Apple makes a replacement app for every Office app except a spreadsheet. It's probably a secret agreement with MS to keep MS from yanking Office:Mac.
- WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1You're talking about database software built around Access and SQL (and, gasp, Excel), and a lot of that is going web-based and open source. The migration tools are available, and it's not *that* difficult to get things migrated over if you have the incentive. A couple hundred dollar per seat upgrade costs for Vista and Office 2k7 and obsolescence of older versions makes a fairly good incentive after a certain point, and Linux, OpenOffice, MySQL and PHP are free to license and use. Once the back end is all Linux/Apache/SQL, the workstations can be Macs, Linux computers, or any random version of Windows, and things will work seamlessly, with much greater robustness and web integration possibilities.
Regardless, this article is talking more about small business software, so this talk of custom Access apps is off-topic. - combatchuck, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2I LIKE CHEESE.
- beaner2011, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Excellent points on the enterprise tip. But it's not just the enterprise. IMO the biggest problems of switching to Apple for business, even for some SME's which haven't been touched on are:
Support - No onsite support, no expedited support. They started to lose me when it took two weeks to turn around a Macbook Pro I'd paid for Applecare for which effectively cost more than I paid Dell for 3-year next day *onsite* warranty. Oh yeah, carry it to the local friendly Apple Store... great, if you like getting a hernia lugging your Mac Pro around.
Parallels shmarallels, Boot camp shmoot camp. To do everything I need to do, I've got to maintain two OS's now? Whee.
Hardware. As pretty as they are, all the Macs I've used bar the XServes are really home PC's. Heat management is a real issue on the "Pro" systems for hardcore business use, and I've come across situations where the Apples performance was degraded over the Windows-running equivalent business computers from Dell, HP et al due to this. There are workarounds available, but that's not the point.
But apart from that, software is definitely an issue for the enterprise and high-end SME's. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1see? it's columns like this that invite derision. this is like telling people you've got a big penis. first, it shouldn't matter. second, people probably won't believe you.
the reality is, if you're working in a creative field ALL of the apps you use are business apps. And all those apps were on the mac first and have always beeen better on a mac. - klawz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Can this be a sign of a Midnight Saturday AM top secret product release?
(I think not, but oh well) - vikramkr, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5Regardless, it is not practical for the average business to run solely on Macintosh computers. Both PC hardware and software are cheaper, and more professionals are trained to use Windows anyway. This is coming from a Mac user by the way.
- ilobmirt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Ever since mac got its Unix makeover, I became confident in its abilities to be used as an administrative tool.
For example, you have the terminal (bash terminal to be precise) in which you can execute most (if not all) of the bash commands available to a generic linux distro. It is in my belief that the bash console gives you the most administrative power over your local computer. Combine that with the event-oriented nature of apple script and you could do things such as...
* Creating a profanity filter for all new documents saved after a certain date.
* Changing ownership of any new application installed on the computer
*... dang the possibilities are frying my brain :P (not really awake yet)
With a few teaks to the system, you can run a great deal of the administrative tools found on any linux distro.
And of course... good luck with transitioning from a windows environment. There may be one or more applications that can't be ported over to the mac natively. At best, try emulation or just keep 1 single windows box for application remoting while saving work in a network accessible folder.
I will provide you a link to do the later of the two windows migration options. Hopefully, this would translate to mac users as well.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=361528&highlight=rdesktop - filemeaway, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3By the way, speaking of Apple, the store is down (as of 10:40 pm PST)
(Holy *****) - laserblazer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Loss of points for incoherence. Loss of points for posting a new response instead of responding to your target post. Loss of points for referencing a Mel Gibson movie. Loss of points for being you.
Farewell. - BLACKEAGLE, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1ya sure what ever you sheep say
- rssej, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3 a mac pro is cheapest then most equivalent workstations out there. sure a macbook pro might be a few hundred dollars than a pc with similar hardware, but the superior and lack of all the problems that are commonplace on windows machines are worth it. besides, i rather spend on more money on what would be the most reliable machines, whichever OS you prefer, i just happen to prefer mac os
- vader101, on 10/12/2007, -6/+0this has been said before, but non-PCs have no business joining the ranks of real computers. The mere fact that only apple makes apple should dissuade any growing business from their products.
Apples may make special effects for movies -- but look at what people who FUND those movies are using.
business has no time for proprietary ***** - garrison, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1cliquishness and elitism are so gauche. Everyone! Buy a PC to show that 5% that they can take our hearts, but they'll never take our freedom! Long live um...Windows! 'n stuff. grumble. Oh and um- yes Apple has an ad strategy. Bill?
- laserblazer, on 10/12/2007, -26/+4Macs are the most over-hyped pieces of garbage.
If you're going to spend that kind of dough, buy a workstation. Otherwise, spend a small fraction of a Mac's price and buy a completely adequate PC.
The fact that Apple has to base their ad strategy on cliquishness and elitism should tell you something.
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