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Mac OS X 10.6 Called 'Snow Leopard', All Cocoa?
macrumors.com — Arstechnica reports on more details about the next major version of Mac OS X (10.6). According to the news site, the next version of Mac OS X will indeed be an Intel-only release and that it is code named "Snow Leopard". Ars can also confirm the expected release target of January 2009 as well a...
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- Omek, on 06/04/2008, -3/+58I hope this is true. I think a faster OS is much preferable to fancy new animations and graphics.
- mikephimikephi, on 06/05/2008, -1/+15Agreed.
Having Dreamweaver open in less than a second makes me say 'wow'.
A transparent taskbar does not.- ihatehippies, on 06/05/2008, -3/+18dreamweaver.
wow.- harrisonx, on 06/05/2008, -3/+2I use dreamweaver [for hand coding only, don't worry] only because it's the only decent way I've found to manage sites the way I want [when saving a file i've edited locally, save it to my local folder and FTP it to the server at the same time]
I can't stand it, but I can't find any other software that manages sites like that. If you know of any for OS X, please let me know. - Phridge, on 06/05/2008, -0/+5An application called coda. Haven't used it, but have been meaning to.
http://www.panic.com/coda/ - luchid, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Coda is AWESOME. Give it a try.
- TomFrost, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Coda's good, but it leaves a bit to be desired in the way of hardcore code management. If you deal with PHP+XHTML+Javascript+CSS all in one document and want something that's going to be able to keep up with you, consider using a good text editor like TextMate in conjunction with Transmit (Also made by Panic Software, the same people who make Coda). Transmit is an FTP client that allows you to sync local and remote folders, open remote files in /tmp and immediately sync them upon every save.. even more advanced than Dreamweaver's feature set. Much lighter weight, too!
- harrisonx, on 06/05/2008, -3/+2I use dreamweaver [for hand coding only, don't worry] only because it's the only decent way I've found to manage sites the way I want [when saving a file i've edited locally, save it to my local folder and FTP it to the server at the same time]
- ralphthemagi, on 06/05/2008, -2/+16People still use Dreamweaver as an IDE on OS X?
Wow.- DarkPrince11, on 06/05/2008, -4/+2Dreamweaver is great for file management and FTP uploading. Most web developers, including myself, use it for its great code highlighting and file management capabilities. Very few people still use the design portion of the program.
- skidooer, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2@DarkPrince - People will use FTP? Wow. You should try having your server pull directly from your version control repository. It's what all the cool kids do these days.
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -1/+11A transparent menu fixes the "Apple menu burn" on LCDs and high end plasma HDTVs which Mini generally accompanies. It is simple, instead of a full white menu, you blend it with desktop wallpaper which users always change. Even if user doesn't change wallpaper, you still don't push full white to a fixed place.
The stupid thing is, Apple not explaining the easily guessed thing.- AlmostEvil, on 06/05/2008, -8/+3You don't get burn in on LCDs, you're probably mistaking them for CRTs. As to plasma tvs i've no idea.
- subxero37, on 06/05/2008, -1/+7Plasma has crazy screen burn. CRTs, not anymore. LCDs, maybe a bit, but leaving the LCD off for a while will fix the issue.
- redwallhp, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Plasma screens burn seriously. LCDs don't, but pixels can get stuck sometimes, which *may* be more likely if you're pushing full white like the old menu bar.
- yabos, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Making the whole OS Cocoa would not make it faster. Objective-C has some overhead over regular C/C++ that makes it slower for some things.
- ihatehippies, on 06/05/2008, -3/+18dreamweaver.
- Masna, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2What are you talking about? Most eye candy is done with Cocoa.
- bradleyland, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Who said anything about Cocoa?
The article says:
"...it will not contain major OS changes. Instead, the release is heavily focused on performance and nailing down speed and stability."
"...also a suggestion that Apple may move Mac OS X 10.6 to "Cocoa-only"
The two are mutually exclusive. They are working on speed increases _and_ working on improving the Cocoa API.- redwallhp, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2And they can compact the codebase a bit too if they're moving away from having Carbon, right?
- bradleyland, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Who said anything about Cocoa?
- mikephimikephi, on 06/05/2008, -1/+15Agreed.
- LilBambi, on 06/04/2008, -4/+7Drat! Figures! And after I went and put some thoughts about it down on my blog. And to think I thought it might be Cougar and that Apple wouldn't be stupid enough to exclude PPCs just yet....well...goes to show my expectations of Apple are more generous than the REAL Apple company. ;-)
- AngelBunny, on 06/05/2008, -5/+2ppcs are how many years old? does sony still make ps2 games? how old is a ps2? ....
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -0/+7PS2 still gets MORE games released than PS3, Sony still supports PS2.
- Alegoo92, on 06/05/2008, -0/+6My iMac G5 computer works fine, and Apple had promised to support both platforms. It's not the biggest deal in the world for me, because I probably will upgrade in a year or two, but others are going to feel left in the dust and not have anything to do about it.
- redwallhp, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Yes, but how much software is developed for G5? Yes, you have Universal binaries, but there aren't many apps especially for the G5. Support is just being kept to ease the transition, it's not technically an active architecture.
- ilgaz, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1I can go back to ordering Asus high end mainboard, 8 core Xeon with massive ECC memory, a Windows server or business option and a high end antivirus like Kaspersky .
If they abandon PPC Workstation owners, that is what they will likely do. Every Adobe App, pro App such as Quark, AVID works on PC and they come with cross-license options.
If they joke with pros, it is just a phone call.
PS: Sadly, almost nobody except dozen of quality developers coded anything altivec-optimised, that is why that PPC emulator could work. It is mostly IBM dinosaurs fault.
- AngelBunny, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1don't mind me. i was drunk last night when i wrote that comment :P
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -0/+7PS2 still gets MORE games released than PS3, Sony still supports PS2.
- persept, on 06/05/2008, -1/+3I wouldn't blame apple too much for dropping G4 support, but I think dropping G5 support is going a little too far. It wasn't even that long ago that people were still buying PowerMac towers with dual G5's.
- SteveMax, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1It also wasn't that long ago that they were buying G4 PowerBooks, iBooks and Minis.
- nicc, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1the last gen PPCs are only as old as the first gen Intels.
- ilgaz, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1I keep saying this rumour makes no sense but when I remember they even abandoned first gen Intels for Java 6, it really makes me think.
- redwallhp, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3OMG, it's only been SEVEN YEARS since the original iPod! They should still make that model, and the one I have should still be working! And why aren't they releasing firmware updates for my 1st gen iPod?
Technology evolves fast.
- AngelBunny, on 06/05/2008, -5/+2ppcs are how many years old? does sony still make ps2 games? how old is a ps2? ....
- helloluke, on 06/04/2008, -2/+15Will any proceeds go to the Snow Leopards, aren't they nearing extinction or something.. and they looked cute on the Planet Earth HD DVDs. Comeon!!! greenpeace would get off there backs
- Eslamicolt3, on 06/05/2008, -0/+26Not as extinct as those HD-DVD's you watched them on.
- FlyinWhee, on 06/05/2008, -4/+7Well player, sir.
- Coolmatt49, on 06/05/2008, -0/+5I don't see any of Leopard's profits going towards Leopards.
- redwallhp, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3Or Vista's profits going to fix roads.
- Lockhart, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Greenpeace are on Apple's backs? I thought Apple was a pretty green company? With the environmentally-friendly MBA's and all...
Back to the topic. "Instead, the release is heavily focused on performance and nailing down speed and stability." This sounds pretty good, better than the fancy-Aero-glass-***** Microsoft pulled with Vista.- redwallhp, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Basically, they are virtually greenest computer manufacturer, but because of those claims, greenpeace won't leave them alone.
- Eslamicolt3, on 06/05/2008, -0/+26Not as extinct as those HD-DVD's you watched them on.
- hdberk, on 06/04/2008, -8/+21Really... a little soon. I usually don't mind apple's frequent upgrades, but seriously. Leopard is pretty damn fast anyway.
- rpark, on 06/04/2008, -0/+17You must be new to Apple's ways. They release new OS's every ~2 years.
- arcticblue, on 06/05/2008, -3/+7Jan '09 would be less than a year and a half since the release of Leopard. I too think this is too soon.
- tomwhughes, on 06/05/2008, -1/+8Yeah, but there is almost guaranteed delays of about 4-6 months, so it will be about a 2 year gap anyway.
- bonjourmr, on 06/05/2008, -6/+1Um, no they release new versions of an OS they built years ago - upgraded versions of course, but not entirely new OS' bud.
- TomFrost, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1To make an awful comparison, it's just as much a new OS as Vista was to XP. Just because they have an uncommon use of version numbers for their releases doesn't mean that there's any less of a change in the codebase than there is for anything else between releases.
- arcticblue, on 06/05/2008, -3/+7Jan '09 would be less than a year and a half since the release of Leopard. I too think this is too soon.
- priegog, on 06/05/2008, -1/+4It doesn't seem that fast to me. Compared to Tiger anyways
- thetanman, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2It didn't to me until I did a fresh install. Granted, I also installed CS3 instead of CS2 on the fresh install, which made a HUGE difference. My 1.83GHz macbook pro runs like a dream now, never dreamed it would before.
- init100, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2You don't have to upgrade if you don't want to.
- rpark, on 06/04/2008, -0/+17You must be new to Apple's ways. They release new OS's every ~2 years.
- Chrino, on 06/04/2008, -2/+14b'gone, carbon.
- enmand, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Donno when they updated the story, but it says: 'Update: John Gruber clarifies that "pure Cocoa" does not have anything to do with dropping Carbon from the OS. ', so chances are Carbon will stick around awhile
- jc1985, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Yep, the "pure Cocoa" bit means that pretty much everything will now be accessible from the Cocoa APIs.
From http://daringfireball.net/linked/2008/june#wed-04- ...
"The “pure Cocoa” stuff is about additional Cocoa wrappers for APIs that currently are only available in Carbon (and/or at the BSD level) — more stuff that developers can do using Objective-C APIs. It is not about dropping Carbon from the OS, which would make no sense. It’s a message for developers, not a description of Snow Leopard."- skidooer, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3Shame. Carbon applications do not play well with the rest of the system. Granted, they could still fix that without eliminating it completely.
- jc1985, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Yep, the "pure Cocoa" bit means that pretty much everything will now be accessible from the Cocoa APIs.
- Kelmon, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Agreed, but the migration needs to be managed. Bare in mind that Photoshop, for example, is a Carbon application, so a Cocoa-only OS would mean no CS3. Adobe has already said that a Cocoa version of Photoshop will not arrive until CS5 (where it will be 64-bit). Even with only the UI going Cocoa, I can't believe that there would not be problems with Photoshop and that's a damned important application to the Mac.
- redwallhp, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2CS *five*? And just the UI? What the *beep* is wrong with Adobe?
- CedanticPunt, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1Maybe Apple are jumping on the environmental bandwagon and aiming to be carbon neutral?
- enmand, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Donno when they updated the story, but it says: 'Update: John Gruber clarifies that "pure Cocoa" does not have anything to do with dropping Carbon from the OS. ', so chances are Carbon will stick around awhile
- richman241, on 06/04/2008, -0/+23couldn't they just update the speed and security in 10.5.4 and beyond?
- ariez84, on 06/05/2008, -10/+2Calling it 10.5 means $129 profit!
- AngelBunny, on 06/05/2008, -0/+8you mean 10.6 right?
the updates for 10.6 are backbone updates which wouldn't be smart to still be 10.5. this would sorta be like windows xp x64 being sp4 instead of a separate os.
- AngelBunny, on 06/05/2008, -0/+8you mean 10.6 right?
- ariez84, on 06/05/2008, -10/+2Calling it 10.5 means $129 profit!
- dynacrylic, on 06/05/2008, -25/+11Does Leopard suck that bad to release a new OS X already?
- Rewebbed, on 06/05/2008, -3/+14No.
- woofers07, on 06/05/2008, -2/+7Yeah, you'd think it was Vista or something.
- nicc, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2cant speak for the Intel users, but 10.5 has very few, if any, issues on PPC systems.
- geoken, on 06/05/2008, -4/+38Wow, Intel only OS in Jan. '09.
With all the ads about Vista upgrades requiring a new computer, you'd think Apple would wait a bit longer. The Jan release date will mean that people with computers that are 2.5-3 yrs old will be unable to use the new OS.- thedrue, on 06/05/2008, -4/+29Last I checked 2.5 to 3 years is an eternity for computers... The problem with Vista is that it wouldn't run on NEW computers. Honestly I'm blown away with how well leopard runs on my 5ish year old single processor G5. Even if I can't use this new OS my G5 will still run leopard as well as ever and continue for several more happy years.
- hypercrypt, on 06/05/2008, -2/+6We have an old (single) Power Mac G4, 1.25GB of RAM. Leopard runs so nicely on it. It is totally usable and fast. Obviously encoding (etc.) takes time, but all of the animations work without any problems.
- luchid, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Same here. Running it on a 15" 1 Ghz G4 PB, with only 512 MB of RAM.
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -6/+32-3 years is an eternity on white box gaming pcs, not Apple computers. People don't buy Apple to throw away in a year or so. If that was the deal, they would buy a $500 Taiwan junk which will choke in first service pack or a directx upgrade.
- Alegoo92, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3I have a ppc mac..and though it may have been made an eternity: it runs everything I want at a healthy speed. I wouldn't bother upgrading if 10.6 was intel only.
- hypercrypt, on 06/05/2008, -2/+6We have an old (single) Power Mac G4, 1.25GB of RAM. Leopard runs so nicely on it. It is totally usable and fast. Obviously encoding (etc.) takes time, but all of the animations work without any problems.
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -12/+2They would all install Linux and Apple would have a scandal in hand, forcing Apple users to use another OS (regardless of quality), a great tool to use for Microsoft and Dell type companies further "proving"(!) how Apple has no place on enterprise/corporate.
Vista specs (according to MS)
"
An 800 MHz processor
512 MB of RAM
A 20 GB hard drive with 15 GB of free space"
OK, it would perform awful (especially memory) but it would still run. It would be enough to make Apple a joke.
I proved wrong on Intel switch (thought it was for phone/ARM) but I am really hoping Apple won't make such a stupid mistake just before things getting to take off.- rodrigo74, on 06/05/2008, -0/+4People could still keep using 10.5 for many years, you know that, don't you?
It's not as if suddenly all 10.5 installations in old machines would pop out of existence once 10.6 is released.
So for those who want to stick to a PPC Mac, just stick to 10.5 until you decide to get a new machine, no problems on that.
- rodrigo74, on 06/05/2008, -0/+4People could still keep using 10.5 for many years, you know that, don't you?
- yabos, on 06/05/2008, -3/+2That's why I think it's BS. They're not going to obsolite all PPC especially G5s.
- Duositex, on 06/05/2008, -4/+6Obsolete isn't a verb, even if you spell it wrong.
A message brought to by the Council for Honest and Outright Admirable Diction.
- Duositex, on 06/05/2008, -4/+6Obsolete isn't a verb, even if you spell it wrong.
- smoger, on 06/05/2008, -3/+2that line of advertisements is based solely on lies and ignoring the same fault on the Apple side anyway.
IE.. they poke fun at WIndows UAC while my users can't change the clock on their Macs without me going over to authenticate with admin access for them.- smoger, on 06/09/2008, -0/+1dugg down by fanboys without so much as a rebuttle.
- j2002, on 06/06/2008, -0/+1"Wow, Intel only OS in Jan. '09. " - Yet people with their PCs running OS X will still say they have a mac not a PC
- thedrue, on 06/05/2008, -4/+29Last I checked 2.5 to 3 years is an eternity for computers... The problem with Vista is that it wouldn't run on NEW computers. Honestly I'm blown away with how well leopard runs on my 5ish year old single processor G5. Even if I can't use this new OS my G5 will still run leopard as well as ever and continue for several more happy years.
- neodude237, on 06/05/2008, -0/+29Nothing like cocoa on a snowy day
- wilwells, on 06/05/2008, -0/+12Update: John Gruber clarifies that "pure Cocoa" does not have anything to do with dropping Carbon from the OS.
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1If Mr. Gruber clarifies that he is not a Developer especially to comment on deep level things like Carbon vs Cocoa, it would get better.
If I want to read a Carbon vs Cocoa thing or prediction of how Carbon will go away, there are way advanced and gifted developers from both camps. In fact, in many occasions, advanced/complex programs use BOTH carbon and cocoa. - akatsuki, on 06/05/2008, -4/+1Even as a mac fan, Gruber is a douchebag. Kneejerk, ill-thought-out, ill-mannered defenses of Apple masquerading as analysis.
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1If Mr. Gruber clarifies that he is not a Developer especially to comment on deep level things like Carbon vs Cocoa, it would get better.
- Kingoftherings, on 06/05/2008, -14/+2Snow Leopard sounds like a really small update, considering Vanilla Leopard was the last release.
And Apple attacks Microsoft about Vista? At least they were able to change the name.- Kelmon, on 06/05/2008, -1/+9I'm sorry, but what exactly is your point here? It took Microsoft 6 YEARS to deliver Vista.
I'm not sure what to make of this prediction, but to compare the advances in one OS done in 1-year to that made in another in 6-years is really kinda dumb.
- Kelmon, on 06/05/2008, -1/+9I'm sorry, but what exactly is your point here? It took Microsoft 6 YEARS to deliver Vista.
- CatalystDM, on 06/05/2008, -6/+4"Snow Leopard"? I don't buy it.
- ElBeh, on 06/05/2008, -4/+8It's just the code name, not the official, finalized name. For example, Vista was codenamed "Longhorn" before its release.
- CatalystDM, on 06/05/2008, -0/+11That's not traditionally how Apple works though. Generally the "name" of the OS is the code name... that's how it's been with every update of OS X. I just don't see them calling the next OS "Snow Leopard," and to me, that discredits this article's source.
- HolyChimp, on 06/05/2008, -2/+1Well there aren't that many big cats left...
- FDL1, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1I'm still rooting for OS X 10.6 "Bobcat".
- CatalystDM, on 06/05/2008, -0/+11That's not traditionally how Apple works though. Generally the "name" of the OS is the code name... that's how it's been with every update of OS X. I just don't see them calling the next OS "Snow Leopard," and to me, that discredits this article's source.
- virtualball, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1You're right it's "Mac OS X 10.6 Calico-Colored Kitten"
- redwallhp, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3Lion?
LOLCat?
Puma?
Tabby?
Sphinx? - Hangly, on 06/05/2008, -0/+110.7 is codenamed CeilingCat
Then Monorail Cat, Dunecat, and invisible bike.- CatalystDM, on 06/06/2008, -0/+2D
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- CatalystDM, on 06/06/2008, -0/+2D
- ElBeh, on 06/05/2008, -4/+8It's just the code name, not the official, finalized name. For example, Vista was codenamed "Longhorn" before its release.
- mCanada, on 06/05/2008, -3/+13I've got a G4 @ 1.33GHz and this is somewhat of a piss off, but I can understand you have to draw the line.(powerbook). 10.5 runs respectably on it. If I had of invested in hordes of dual G5 machines just before the switch I would be mighty pissed off right now (but lets see what the official announcement is).
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -4/+2Funny is, they are digging you down for a reason. Everyone sees how stupid/misunderstood thing this would be but still forced to apologise for Apple by censoring legitimate comments just in case!
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -4/+2Funny is, they are digging you down for a reason. Everyone sees how stupid/misunderstood thing this would be but still forced to apologise for Apple by censoring legitimate comments just in case!
- effer, on 06/05/2008, -4/+7Snow Leopard is an 80's reference for an older broad with a nasal flute. Ex. I ordered another Zima as the snow leopard eyed me from across the table.
- tomwhughes, on 06/05/2008, -1/+4wow...obscure!
- Rewebbed, on 06/05/2008, -4/+3And i was banking on OS Tabby...
- suntzusputnik, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3what does this mean for us and our many fans?
- Vst_kills, on 06/05/2008, -5/+8Apple will not release an os that requires a computer newer then 5yrs old. Mark my words.
- MacParrot, on 06/05/2008, -0/+8If I hadn't already gone through the transitions between the 68xxx to PPC, OS6 and OS7, and the OS9 to OS X, I might have believed you.
- ertz, on 06/05/2008, -0/+15and here's a direct link to the article from Ars
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/06/ ...- Seph7, on 06/05/2008, -1/+4Thanks I was confused why we where linked to a macrumours page to tell us about an article on arstechnica.
- B08ama, on 06/05/2008, -5/+6Being a C++ programmer, I'm glad to hear that Carbon will stay; it's Apple's best shot at reverse and cross-platform compatibility.
- Me1000, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1And as a consumer, I see more ports come over written using Carbon, and all the ports are *****!
I do look forward to having a 100% Cocoa environment one day, but it wont be 10.6 because they can t abandon MS Office, and Photoshop. Not to mention all of Apple's pro apps and iTunes.
- Me1000, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1And as a consumer, I see more ports come over written using Carbon, and all the ports are *****!
- djcreamy, on 06/05/2008, -7/+13I'm just here to say that switching from Windows to OSX was the greatest thing I've ever done for myself. I'm better than you because of it, unless you have OSX too in which case you can climb into my tree house anytime.
- Weejay, on 06/05/2008, -4/+2Dugg cause I hope you're humoring us :D
- happytedium, on 06/05/2008, -8/+1But will it have a pretty default background?
- Berkana, on 06/05/2008, -4/+13Aw, no "Liger"? Bummer.
- ThirdPrize, on 06/05/2008, -15/+3I was hoping for OSX Pussy. Like most of the people who use Macs. ;)
- MacParrot, on 06/05/2008, -0/+12Right, because there's absolutely nothing pussy at all about insulting an entire group of people from behind the relative anonymity of an internet forum. Your bravery knows no bounds.
- ThirdPrize, on 06/05/2008, -6/+1It was just a joke!!!!!!
- MacParrot, on 06/05/2008, -0/+12Right, because there's absolutely nothing pussy at all about insulting an entire group of people from behind the relative anonymity of an internet forum. Your bravery knows no bounds.
- ThirdPrize, on 06/05/2008, -15/+3I was hoping for OSX Pussy. Like most of the people who use Macs. ;)
- redxninja, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2Isn't the snow leopard a rare and endanger specie?
- redwallhp, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Quick! Buy OS 10.6 before 10.7 is out! Supplies are limited!
- Berkana, on 06/05/2008, -0/+8What they mean by "All Cocoa" is that the OS itself will be entirely in the new API; the current version of MacOS X still has legacy code using the Carbon API, in the Finder of all places. Finder itself is still written with the Carbon API. Until Apple has moved on to the newer and better API itself and fixed what needs to be fixed based on first hand usage building the OS and applications, they won't be able to move forward the way OS X was intended to. OS X is not about backwards compatibility; it's all about shedding the old for the better.
- redwallhp, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1The way I see it, there's nothing wrong with moving ahead, as long as Leopard updates still come out for awhile for those who still have G5s.
- shawnanigans, on 06/05/2008, -0/+7Snow Leopard? Indicative of a small update that would maintain the look of Leopard? Maybe. But I like to think they are running out of cats and 10.7 will be Maine Coon.
- ThirdPrize, on 06/05/2008, -4/+2Bet they still charge big bucks for it though.
- the6thReplicant, on 06/05/2008, -3/+4$129 dollars every two years, with development tools and server and everything else included in the OS, I don't think will burn your budget (thats the cost 2 NextGen games, no?)
- ThirdPrize, on 06/05/2008, -4/+2Bet they still charge big bucks for it though.
- TastyLamp, on 06/05/2008, -5/+2Lynx sounds cooler.. :(
I don't get how they would get away with dropping Carbon altogether though. That means no Adobe CS3...no games...no cross platform things, including some open source stuff that we all use (is Audacity Carbon?).- nebkiwi, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1"Lynx" sounds to much like "linux" ... but it still sounds cool..
- Balanced, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Or it sounds, perhaps, like the lynx web browser.
- zhephree, on 06/05/2008, -0/+0Or it sounds, perhaps, like the handheld Atari console.
- Balanced, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Or it sounds, perhaps, like the lynx web browser.
- skidooer, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2The name Lynx is already used by the web browser of the same name.
- nebkiwi, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1"Lynx" sounds to much like "linux" ... but it still sounds cool..
- Takuro, on 06/05/2008, -1/+4I'm a little skeptic about this. Would people really be willing to pay for a handful of stability and security fixes? I thought that's what Software Updater was for.
Then again, the transition from Panther to Tiger wasn't really a quantum leap either.- Kelmon, on 06/05/2008, -0/+4Depends on the price, if any. I definitely won't pay the usual $129 for what really amounts to a Service Pack. Typically I hate the comparison between a new retail version of OS X and a Windows Service Pack, but this version of OS X probably is pretty comparable, and the Windows Service Packs are free. A nominal fee might be acceptable but anything above that will not be popular.
- MacParrot, on 06/05/2008, -2/+2I thought that Panther to Tiger was huge. As was Tiger to Leopard. Jaguar to Panther not so much.
Heck I stuck with OS9 until Jaguar came out - redwallhp, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Woot for Quantum Leap. (If anyone has no idea what that is, search it on Netflix Instant.)
- fLUx1337, on 06/05/2008, -1/+5I hope they don't try charging a lot. To be honest, if it really is just stability and performance boosts, it would be worse than MS selling Vista Ultimate retail for £200 ($400). But then again they did try and sell an iPod Touch update for $20!
Though don't take any of these comments as Apple trolling, I like Macs, planning to get another one later in the year (or next few months)- Zippo, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2Well, Leopard itself was only $120... If this is just an update to Leopard, I don't seeing it being that expensive... they'll probably offer upgrade discounts to current Leopard users.
- bradleyland, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1If they make it available as a stand-alone purchase, it will likely sell at the same price point as prior releases. There's always the option of skipping this release.
- smoger, on 06/05/2008, -1/+3Vista Ultimate is not actually anywhere close to the MSRP unless you're a terrible shopper.
Remember, when you talk about non-Apple software, you have options as to where to buy. My copy of Vista Ultimate from Newegg was $190
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -2/+2Carbon has nothing to do with badly written code acting slowly. Install a open source management system and see what 70% of useful applications check and use, Carbon.
No Adobe means no Apple in professional scene too.- hypercrypt, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3It is not about third parties not using Carbon, it is about Apple using Cocoa for the entire OS (eg Finder...). Apple wouldn't kill Carbon, isn't iTunes still Carbon? They would kill so many programmes!
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1I tell it is almost impossible. I mean, a stripped down Carbon already in Leopard.
If Apple uses their Cocoa on whole system, it would be good and it would also convince developers to use Cocoa. They can't rm -rf a framework, they are not amateurs, OS X is not a homebrew OS.
Hope they fix things like these first :) It looks like Apple warning Apple.
" quad /System/Library/CoreServices/SystemUIServer.app/Contents/MacOS/SystemUIServer[170]: CPSGetProcessInfo(): This call is deprecated and should not be called anymore."
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1I tell it is almost impossible. I mean, a stripped down Carbon already in Leopard.
- Kelmon, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1Thankfully, Adobe are committed to migrating to Cocoa for CS5, and it helps that they already have had practice in the development of Lightroom. I don't think there is any suggestion that Carbon results in bad code, but simply that Cocoa is generally better and Apple clearly wants to focus on that API and stop having to support both. Given the lack of 64-bit Carbon in Leopard, this process of deprecation has already started and 10.6 seems to be a natural progression, assuming the rumor to be true.
- hypercrypt, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3It is not about third parties not using Carbon, it is about Apple using Cocoa for the entire OS (eg Finder...). Apple wouldn't kill Carbon, isn't iTunes still Carbon? They would kill so many programmes!
- aliguana, on 06/05/2008, -1/+3I don't buy the name, but the fact that it will be an intel-only release kind-of makes sense. Apple have to cut off their PPC support sooner or later, or else their OSs will end up these big hulking Windows-type releases that support every Apple computer ever made. (A familiar criticism from Apple fans of Microsoft's approach). Given Apple user's upgrade patterns, most of them are running G5s at the earliest, and will have bought an Intel machine by first quarter next year I would have thought. Keep it lean, keep it mean.
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -2/+1There is no DLL hell, no executable hell on OS X.
Even if your application (lets say Safari) has executables for max amount of CPU families (10!) in its package, it will _NEVER_ change anything on your system except 10-20MB of disk space.
A Safari Universal binary or Webkit Framework has NO difference from a stripped down one. There is no system performance, memory issue. NONE.
You know the HFS+, Packages, Resources those nerds bitch about? It makes it possible.- aliguana, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1wrong. I've run software to strip the PPC versions off my hard-drive, and it removed HALF my bloody hard-drive. Seriously. That's a whole lot of waste if you're running an intel system (or a ppc system)
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1We are speaking about next year yes? Currently, 500GB is a common drive on desktops, 160 GB is on laptops. Next year, 1TB is common (with help from SSD competition)
I have only seen that huge space removed when I got Developer tools installed on Tiger. Developer tools installs huge frameworks (again, NO performance diff!) and they are universal.
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1We are speaking about next year yes? Currently, 500GB is a common drive on desktops, 160 GB is on laptops. Next year, 1TB is common (with help from SSD competition)
- aliguana, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1wrong. I've run software to strip the PPC versions off my hard-drive, and it removed HALF my bloody hard-drive. Seriously. That's a whole lot of waste if you're running an intel system (or a ppc system)
- skoles, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3They have a very powerful PPC userbase in the G5 area that I can't see them just cutting off. As someone with a dual 2.3Ghz G5 that I bought 3 years ago it runs Leopard as fast as it ran Tiger on day one. I don't see me needing to upgrade this for another 3 years. So I hope I see one more OS release out of it.
Also, with such a large shift in the OS code wouldn't they go to OS XI? 10.6 seems like a tiny bump for what they're doing.
- ilgaz, on 06/05/2008, -2/+1There is no DLL hell, no executable hell on OS X.
- rdoger6424, on 06/05/2008, -2/+3Damn it, I just got this computer three years ago and it's out of date (as I wait here for the letters I typed to appear onscreen)
- Deist4Life, on 06/05/2008, -3/+2Too soon Apple. Think I will pass, Leopard works just fine.
- smoger, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1no it doesn't. my macbook has a wireless card but it has to be plugged in to a power outlet to hold it's signal for more than 5 minutes at a time.
- brianhonaker, on 06/05/2008, -2/+1This is the only company that I know of that can do a major OS release and not change the primary version number. We've been on OSX for how long now? How many revisions have we been through?
- sudowrestler, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3Windows 2000 = NT 5.0. Windows XP = NT 5.1. Windows Server 2003 = NT 5.2. "OS X" is more a brand than a sequential designator. Apple knows the value of branding, and aesthetics. That nice solid "X" on the box wouldn't be improved by becoming "XI." (I have it from good sources that when OS XI actually does come out, it will connect directly to your brain.)
- redwallhp, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1So, will they start saying "Mac OSX 11" or will it be 10.11? The latter is a badly-formed decimal, so I vote for the first one.
- sudowrestler, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3Windows 2000 = NT 5.0. Windows XP = NT 5.1. Windows Server 2003 = NT 5.2. "OS X" is more a brand than a sequential designator. Apple knows the value of branding, and aesthetics. That nice solid "X" on the box wouldn't be improved by becoming "XI." (I have it from good sources that when OS XI actually does come out, it will connect directly to your brain.)
- Zippo, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Definitely looking forward to OS X and applications being Intel only... While I use XSlimmer, it's still annoying every Universal application and component is more-or-less waisting space on my harddrive.
- WomensUnderwear, on 06/05/2008, -6/+0VISTA FTW!
- Papajohn56, on 06/05/2008, -0/+4nice troll
- kahrytan, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2But what will Apple do about Psystar damn it? I want to see some fur fly.
- Papajohn56, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2this IS what they're doing. the update will kill capability to run it on their machine more than likely
- sudowrestler, on 06/05/2008, -1/+4They don't seem worried about the small number of people who might buy a poorly-built, sketchy Mac clone that sounds like a Harrier taking off.
- CedanticPunt, on 06/05/2008, -0/+5If it's gonna be "pure cocoa" and they need a new name, how about licensing Chococat from Sanrio? ;)
- mattosnell, on 06/05/2008, -3/+3You would think that they would have attempted to make it as fast and stable as possible before they release leopard not just release it and then charge us again for the real gold master! (mac fanboy here but a bit pissed about the news, if this was vista we would rip it a new one!)
- sholt, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3Well, I'm sure they did.
But, at some point you just have to draw the line and ship what you have. Otherwise, we'd still be waiting on zfs support in Leopard and WinFS support for Vista.
This is true even for open source projects; if you don't constantly update and release new versions, people assume you're stagnant and forget about you.
- sholt, on 06/05/2008, -0/+3Well, I'm sure they did.
- bluejays47, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1Snow Leopard? Damn, I was hoping for "Ocelot"...
- jasarien, on 06/05/2008, -1/+1FFS, I hate it when articles like this pop up. Nothing is confirmed. The "snow-leopard" thing is just a rumor. There is no *confirmed* release target, there is no confirmed description. The fact that it may be all Cocoa and Intel only, is also just a rumor. Nothing is confirmed. Do I need to say it again?
- schneb, on 06/05/2008, -1/+2OS 10.6 - "Bill the Cat"
http://forums.macosxhints.com/attachment.php?attac ...- schneb, on 06/05/2008, -0/+2Thhbpt!
- dizzy113, on 06/05/2008, -1/+0Setup a poll for this one
http://whenwillapple.com/saywhen/when-will-snow-le ... - markalex, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1upgrades to speed and stability? Sounds like an update to me... should be free. This leopard has got major fleas and is in need of some serious de-bugging. Sure, it has some cool new features that I've come to rely on, but that crash free dependability that made me fall in love with Apple in the tiger days is but a faded memory.
- Hangly, on 06/05/2008, -0/+410.8 is Monorail Cat
- HarleyQuinn, on 06/05/2008, -0/+1If the naming tells you anything, I would guess that 10.5 Leopard will continue to be supported as Universal. Whereas "Snow" will simply be Leopard stripped of the Universal-PPC code and all Carbon based. I doubt you will see any new features, just OS enhancement for the Intel platform. 10.7 will probably be the end of the line for the PPC.
- clockdist, on 07/05/2008, -0/+1Just like ppl are still running Jaguar and Tiger, Power processor users don't have to upgrade to Snow Leopard and continue using their Macs for a few more years.
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