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76 Comments
- shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17In short, I think you are a little. Apple almost calls security issues 'serious'... but this isn't a security patch, it's a full update to the OS, which fixes or updates lots of things, be it a Java udgrade, compatibility for Apple apps, etc. etc.
As a lifelong mac user (and windows), I'm pretty glad those issues get 'magically' fixed before there are any problems. Many users will indeed deny having any, as few have had any as a result of 'vulnerabilities'... not bragging or being smug, it's just the reality of it. Also don't forget you can have both OS X and Parallels for those windows-only apps... that is, if you have the $ to drop on a new machine. - kethraal, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21"This will be the last update to Tiger."
Probably (since that would fit their past pattern prety well), but just becase we're at 10.4.9 doesn't mean there won't be more major upgrades (keep in mind, minor versioning allows for 10.4.10). - uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Wow...what is wrong with people here? Can we not just take a story for what it's worth without bashing Microsoft/Apple and calling everyone who prefers one product or the other a fanboy (or some variation thereof)? Furthermore, if you have something to say, at least put a little effort into sounding half intelligent. Also, if you don't like the product, instead just bitching about how terrible it is, why not provide some legitimate input as to why you don't like it instead of just being a whiny cry-baby about it?
That being said....
Cool! It seems like this one moved along pretty quick...it seems as though just yesterday 10.4.8 was out, although, time always flys by this time of year. :)
Does anyone know for sure if this will infact be the last update (short of other software) prior to 10.5? - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"why not provide some legitimate input as to why you don't like it "
Good lord no. If I never have to sit through another chorus of:
- No right click*
- Dell is cheaper*
- Can't play games**
- If I hand carve the CPU from pure silicon myself I save money***
it will be far too soon.
* Completely false
** Somewhat false (just buy a console for goodness sake)
*** Some people like hand assembling their machine, good for them, but justifying it on cost is a false economy.
At risk of sounding like a fanboy, Apple offers a number of different great value package deals
in the laptop, 'lifestyle' desktop (ie where form factor is important) and high end desktop, while
avoiding some pretty serious security issues, and optimising for ease of use.
But, like all package deals, they don't necessarily fit what everyone wants. You cannot please
all of the people all of the time. Example: not everyone that goes to buy a plane ticket also gets
a package holiday at the same time.
However, most of the time it seems that the reasons people give for not switching are more
based on emotion than logic. Hey, personal opinions are subjective, that is just how it is.
My feeling is that (extending the plane ticket metaphor) if when I go to check in for the flight,
I'm offered a seat in the screaming children section, or non screaming section, I will take the
non screaming section. Less hassles, less headaches (on average), what is not to like? :D - cantankerous, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Do some developers feel violated after they are seeded?
- thehigherlife, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15yes, yes you are.
- rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11@shmatt
Is someone who says: "and yet the mac fans would vehemently deny that there are any problems with the OS at all!"
really speaking with an open mind?
Where are these hordes of mac fanboys claiming that all things about the mac is perfect?
The _only_ people I've ever seen making this claim (on Digg) are the Windows fanboys, right after each and every minor
software update, battery recall, or one in a million act of God hardware failure.
Here's a clue: someone going into Apple stories and whining about the mac fans is _not_ speaking from the point of view of an open mind.
And it certainly doesn't help if you just make ***** up that they supposedly do, and then complain that they do these imaginary things. - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Superior market share in this case does not represent a superior product.
Apple has had a lot of problems in the past. I am given to understand that the 90s were a particularly rough patch.
They also seem to be focusing on the consumer market segment rather than the business market segment,
which could seem like a bit of a mistake. Perhaps they don't want to bite (sic) off more than they can chew.
But they have 5.4% of the OS market _and_ 5.4% of the PC hardware market, whereas most of their competitors
only compete in one or the other but not both.
Microsoft and Dell both have great marketing (in their own quite different ways).
Lots of people just seem completely unable to even consider that Apple (or anything) might be cheaper than Dell.
What better measure of successful marketing would you want?
HPs recent increases in market share were quite surprising to me. I don't know anyone who sings their praises.
Yet somehow they are doing really well. They must be doing something right but I have no idea what that might be.
You could argue that _based on results_, Apple's marketing must really suck. However, if you consider pre OS X
Apple and post OS X Apple as two completely different companies, you might consider grabbing as much market
share as they have in that time as quite a good result.
The real measure of the success of Microsoft's marketing is that probably most of the people who consider upgrading to
Vista won't even for a moment bother to think about the alternatives. Or if they do they will be tossing up between XP
and Vista (or different versions of Vista). Kudos to MS for that. They worked and fought hard to get to where they are today. - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@naio
It isn't serious talk. Why not? In terms of logical debate we would call this 'erecting a straw man'.
Eg you make up some ridiculous position, ascribe it to your opponent in the debate, knock it down, and tada! You appear to win because you easily beat up 'your opponents' position.
Or the non-technical explanation - we like to call this: "pulling stuff out of your arse".
I'm a huge Apple fanboy (did you notice?), but even I don't think Apple are perfect.
I'm happy when I see Apple improving something, particularly before it has become a serious problem.
_Hurrah for Apple for being pro-active!_
But just because they just got (fractionally) better, does not mean there isn't room for improvement in the future.
But it also doesn't mean that Apple and/or OS X isn't out in front of the competition.
It just means now the competition has to work a little bit harder to catch up. What a shame. Sucks to be them I guess. :D - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Dude. It is the Apple section after all.
Do you go over to the Linux/Unix section of Digg and complain about all the penguin molesting commie Linux lovers hanging out there?
Do you go to the sports section of Digg and complain that there are people posting about sports in that section?
Do you go to the politics section of Digg and complain that there are people posting about (shock horror!) politics in that section?
If not, you are a hypocrite.
If yes, then you just have a very strange idea of the way the world works.
But I tell you what.
I don't think the Windows fanboys should come into all the Apple stories and bitch and moan.
I _also_ don't think the Apple fans should be going into the Windows stories and bitching and moaning either.
If you would be so kind as to point out to me which Windows stories that is happening in, I will happily go into those stories and digg down the comments of the Apple fanboys. Fair is fair after all. We don't want you peeing in our porridge, and you have the right to expect the same in reverse. - jtjdt, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11"This will be the last update to Tiger."
Are you a moron? They still update 10.3 (panther)! - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6But the point I'm trying (badly I fear) to make is it isn't really 'legitimate' debate (as in a scientific or factual way).
If a Windows fan comes in and says "I like Windows more". What can you say? "No, you're wrong"?
Do we have some special insight into that person's thinking and emotions that they don't?
Can we say "you don't _really_ like it, you just think that you do"?
The correct answer is to say something like: "you have an opinion, and I respect your right to have an opinion".
I happen to respect _informed_ opinions a lot more than uninformed opinions, but that is just one of my many flaws. :D
If this was Linux then if someone came in and said:
"I tried Linux and didn't like it because of X and hence went back to [some other OS]", then we could at least have
a chance to address the issue, which is the great/only strength of open source. However Apple and OS X is a closed
shop. If someone comes in and complains that they don't like the Finder (for instance), it is like... tough titties, that
is the only one they give us.
If someone comes in and says "I like OS X because it is easy to install", and someone else comes in and says:
"Ahha! But what about Knoppix? No installation required, just run it straight from the CD!", what can you say in reply?
So to recap:
Debates about OS preferences aren't about facts.
Even if they were about facts, we still couldn't do anything about them. - h2d2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Well they are Apple Developers... so of course they don't feel violated. In fact most of those who've already been seeded are already waiting for the next update.
- rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4What we _really_ need is a place that the people who have grievances against Apple can go to in order to air them.
It really isn't fair that innocuous ordinary Apple threads get continuously hijacked this way.*
Likewise, a Windows hater section where Windows bashing and de-fenestration is on topic.
It occurs to me that splitting off the loony Democrats from the loony Republicans, from the 'un-American and proud of it'** politics sections is a logical extension of that. And a "guns are bad m'kay" vs "praise the Lord and pass the ammo" section as well.
*What is even more bizarre is when the Apple haters hijack stories which haven't even appeared on the front page yet, which implies that they actively seek out that which they hate...
**With apologies to out Canadian and Mexican friends. - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The _really_ funny thing is that when I started posting to this thread I had a massive headache.
(Several hours of playing a board game which was supposed to be a friendly/cooperative trading game wherein one of the players insisted on treating it as a war/diplomacy game, and constantly justifying their actions, followed by several hours of argument where I tried to explain to that person that they would get a more favourable result if they tried to be a bit nicer)
Now, after massively flaming some complete strangers over the internet I feel much better.
Digg has cured me. Hallelujah! :D - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I actually thought his comment was kind of funny. (Not as funny as the doll comment up above, for which mention I will no doubt get mercilessly dugg down (oh wait, now that I've said I will get dugg down I'll get dugg up (oh wait, now that I've said I'll get dugg up, I'll get dugg down ([insert existential crisis to continue])))).
As Mac users we shouldn't get too uptight, we should not take ourselves too seriously, and we should be able to laugh at ourselves occasionally.
It can be a fine line between trolling or flame bait and a funny quip. It helps to not automatically assume the worst. And be confident in your choice of OSXuality. Only insecure people never laugh at themselves. - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5You have a small point in that this is really the 'warm up' news for the 'real' news
(which will be when it is released to everyone, not just developers).
For me personally, I look at this and go, "oh, I didn't know they did that, I learned something today".
I kind of feel that the people paying for the annual Developers subscription fork out a lot of dough
for some rather ... how shall I put this, erm, 'vague' benefits. Kind of like a 'you give us money, and
then if we feel like it, we might think about giving you something in return' sort of deal.
So I feel genuinely happy for them and like it when I see that these suc^H^H^H 'loyal customers'
are getting some value in return for their investment.
Also, I now know to be on the look out for 10.4.9 when it comes out. Not that I expect anything major,
I just like to keep up to date, and it is free, so it is all good. What is not to like? - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I agree that there is a certain amount of Windows bashing that goes on. I do try to occasionally point out that MS actually makes some pretty good hardware. :D
I didn't realise there wasn't a Windows specific section. There _is_ a Linux/Unix section though, so I don't think it is fair to say that Digg is exclusively biased towards Apple. Also, given the volume of Apple posts (they have their fingers in a lot of (sic) pies) isn't it actually a good thing (especially if you hate Apple) that there is an Apple section which can be (effectively) roped off and ignored if you want to?
If you think about it, not having a Windows section is unfair to the fans of the other OSes, because there is no easy way to avoid the Windows stories!
The last time I did a direct comparison (earlier this week) between two front page stories, one about Apple, the other about Windows, there was a roughly 2:1 ratio of Apple bashing in the Apple threads vs Windows bashing in the Windows thread. I think the numbers were something like 30% of the comments in the Apple thread were outright anti-Apple trolls or flames, vs 16% anti-Windows comments in the Windows thread.
In addition, my personal perception was that the Apple bashing tends to take a very different tone. There are a lot more attacks against the people who like Apple, whereas with Windows it is about the product, not the people.
My personal perception is that the number of attacks against Apple stories has markedly increased since I joined Digg. At first it was just Flag and a couple of others, plus the occasional "I hate Apple because I had such and such a bad experience with them or their tech support", (which is fair enough, especially if it is actually on topic).
Then (eventually) I discovered the block button, and everything magically improved for a while. Now it is worse than ever.
I know I probably used to be a bad offender when it comes to flaming Windows, but I try not to do it now, on the theory of 'live and let live', or maybe the theory of 'not annoying the supporters of the other team who are vastly more numerous than us'. I've tried to modify my behaviour.
I stand by my offer, point me to a pro Windows post with anti-MS or anti-Windows comments from Apple fanboys and I will go to that thread and digg them down.
I don't see how any of that makes me a hypocrite. - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11If only there was an incredibly simple and easy way to avoid them.
Or even better, completely avoid ever seeing any Apple stories at all?
When oh when will the evil masterminds of Digg realise that we, the great unwashed, are desperately yearning for such a feature? - gsnedders, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4It can vary from weeks to months, depending on how large the update is, and how much they want to fix and/or change in it.
- obey43, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3really, it's a good thing you posted, i wouldn't have known.
- tinus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Is it possible iSync will get an update? Currently iSync does not support UIQ 3 phone like the Sony Ericsson m600i. Third party plugin developers say an update to iSync's implementation of SyncML is required to be able to develop a plugin so I am desperately waiting for an update.
- shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Interesting. Palm and Blackberry stuff syncs pretty well, but they use their own software for the mac... Not to be Sony bashing, but they're never really showed much interest in supporting apple stuff... I had to return a Sony camera about 3 years ago cause their Mac software was for OS 9!
- uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Just to chime in a bit on what Rick was saying above -- from a strictly technological standpoint, market share has nothing at all to do with quality of the product, security, stability, etc. The only time that it could apply, would be in terms of Open Source software, where those that use the product can and will dictate quality of the product (since many of the users contribute code).
If you want to talk about marketing, sales, etc, then market share becomes relevant.
I think a lot of people jump to the conclusion that because Apple's market share is so small, they have very few users to report issues, provide suggestions, and whatever else have you. What you need to realize though, is that despite the low percentage, there are still millions, if not billions of Apple users out there. That's a *lot* of feedback. I should know -- I work for a company that thrives on feedback from end users.
Regardless, this seems to be one of those things that people really get hung up on when making a comparison or argument, and it just doesn't fit. - uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Rick, exactly why I said "legitimate" :)
I agree 100%, those types of excuses are utterly lame. It's one thing to say "I'm not comfortable with the interface" or "I feel that I work more efficiently with the interface of "...but to say "LOL IT SUX!!" just makes one look like an idiot.
I'm all for a good debate, presenting real facts, and making an argument worth reading...it just seems that people here just don't have the mental capacity for that, and I think it's sad.
As far as what you said about price, I agree there as well. A few years ago, that was a legitimate argument, as the PPC based systems were a little on the pricy side, but they could do that since they were a sort of "specialty" system. With the newer systems, that's just not true anymore. They are priced competitively, and the sales have skyrocketed. When someone claims they are too expensive, that just tells me that whoever is making this claim has no idea what they are talking about, and they really aren't worth my time. - kethraal, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6"I just happen to know something that you don't."
Riiiight. Well I suppose you might work for Apple, in which case you've violated both your NDA _and_ your contractor agreement.
Or you could be developer -- but no... I have an ADC Premier Membership, and they haven't announced anything indicating that Tiger is done after .9. I'm guessing it is, but word certainly hasn't trickled down from mother Apple. Besides, if you did hear something due to having an ADC membership, you would risk losing it.
This leads me to believe that you don't know something I don't... at least not about Tiger. Hopefully, after reading my post, you now know something that's obvious to us: you're a tremendous tool who is trying to get attention.
Merry Christmas! - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Months? Wow.
BTW: Thanks for answering my question. It makes Digg a better place when that happens.
Festive holidays to you and yours :D - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@twatwaffle
Dude. When did I call you a 'Windows fanboi'? Any such accusations would have been firmly directed at certain other people (*cough* naio *cough*).
It is a good thing I'm feeling a lot more calm and mature now, or I might be tempted to say something mean like -
"given your level of reading comprehension, grammar and spelling... I hope you were not part of the Apple documentation team, or if so I can certainly see why you don't work for them any more". That kind of comment would just be unkind and uncalled for.
(NB: if I misspelt 'uncalled', blame me not the Mac, as it has it underlined in red, and has washed its hands of the whole sordid business)
You do seem a bit bitter, so I was also tempted to say something like:
"Macs are gay" is actually spelt "MAC is ghey!"
"Steve J can blow me" is actually spelt "Suxzor my serial port El Jobso!".
Thank goodness I resisted temptation. - obey43, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2sucks for that fortune 100 company that has an employee who uses the Internet moniker of twatwaffle
- applehill, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I wish they'd update safari mine crashes all the time. If I have 3 or more tabs open it craps out.
- uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Melted, I think when it comes down to it, some people just want to try to look like they have a huge e-wang. That usually doesn't work out in their favor though. ;)
Some people do have a preference, and use one more than another, though, and many feel the need to express why they think one or the other is superior. Each OS comes with good and bad qualities. (For those who want to nitpick, examples: Windows - Strongly supported by the industry, comes pre-installed on many pre-built systems such as Dell, HP, and Gateway. Linux - Customizable. If you can dream it, you can probably make Linux do it. Mac OS - "best of both worlds" scenerio. It's secure/stable, and very easy to use. (I suppose you could argue that the last one is an opinion)).
I do like your point of view -- I share similar views, although I do have a preference as to which OS I'd like to use most often...you just don't see me going around calling people names over it. :) - rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@bobbyl
On the one hand, you are kind of making an incredibly profound point, and up until this year I would have agreed.
The point: that processor speed doesn't really matter.
In the past (in the Windows world) I'd bought the cheapest computer and slapped extra ram into it, on the theory that
RAM was more important than raw CPU. So I was effectively buying what was the top of the line 3 years previously.
Also, I bought software that was about 5 years old. So I got pretty good performance because the kind of hardware I
was running it on was so much better than what was available than when it was developed. Also, this was cheap.
In technical terms I was a very price sensitive consumer.
Why I wouldn't agree from this year onward is that there is this thing called Vista. And, I am given to understand,
Vista is going to be very processor (and graphics) intensive. If you aren't buying a Core 2 Duo machine, will the
machine you bought even be able to run Vista?
I do know at least one person who did exactly what you did, he didn't want to shell out for an expensive CPU and
bought a very cheap laptop (sub $600), and he runs Ubuntu on it. So it may sound like I'm assuming that you are
a Windows fanboy, but I'm not really (honest!).
Here's the thing, even if I bought a dirt cheap laptop, and ran Ubuntu, I'd still want to have the _option_ of running
Vista on it at some distant point in the future (eg service pack 1 or 2). I like to keep my options open that way.
------
But as I pointed out above, Apple is really selling a 'package deal'. From the hardware point of view, the package may
be including things like Wireless Ethernet, Bluetooth, convenient form factor (desktop), built in camera, DVD burner etc
that do have an implicit cost. If you don't want those things, then the value of the package is less to you.
Leaving aside issues of software and bundled hardware extras, we come to the core of your statement, and that is the
part that I consider utter nonsense. If the CPU is (in general) the most expensive component of the computer, then
surely if you are comparing the prices of two different manufacturers, then it (only) makes sense to compare them where
their product line ups are similar (or roughly similar).
Example: if you came up to me and said "Ford sells a truck for $100k, and Nissan sells a 3 door hatch for $10k, but I don't
need a truck, therefore _all_ Ford vehicles are more expensive than _all_ Nissan vehicles" I'd think you were a loony.
But that is what you are doing here. You are saying that because Dell sells a _cheaper_ model of computer than Apple does,
that _all_ Dells are cheaper than _all_ Apples, which is nonsense.
So lets have a look at what you said:
"Apple is more expensive than Dell for most people"
What you are really saying is that for people on a tight budget, Apple may not have an offering in the price range that they
can afford, so they will be forced to go with some other manufacturer.
I guess I would agree that if someone isn't willing to fork out at least $600 for a desktop, or $1100 for a laptop, then yes,
they will have trouble fitting an Apple into their price range. I would not say that _most_ people buying computers have such
tight restraints. I'd say the opposite, that if even 'poor students' can afford MacBooks, then the assertion is clearly false.
In your specific case you say the screen size was important to you (more important than processor for sure).
If you did spend at least $1100 on the laptop, it would be interesting to compare the specs of what you ended up with to
the specs of the base model MacBook.
In your case as you say Apple doesn't make a sub $2k 15" laptop at all. But the answer is not "Apple is more expensive than Dell"
the answer is "Apple does not serve my market segment". You are not alone in that. I've seen people complaining that what they
want from Apple is a medium priced (and specced) desktop in a tower format so that they can upgrade the components themselves.
Apple doesn't serve their particular market segment, because their tower format desktop machines start at $2500, not $1500.
But you couldn't then turn around and say something like 'Apple doesn't make desktops for under $2500', because they clearly do.
Just not in that particular form factor that allows those kind of easy component upgrades. - coldfusion1970, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2And also try removing any third party Safari plugins like PithHelmet.
- shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I should've RTFA first: "A number of fixes have been documented. Among those, include bugs wtih Sync Service Engine, rsync and extended attributes, .Mac Sync..."
so sounds like you have a good chance there... - bobbyi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@rickcarson: Sorry, but Apple is more expensive than Dell for most people. The only way it isn't is if the package you want is /exactly/ what Apple has set up and even then they are about equal. Otherwise, you are forced to get upsold on most of the components to get what you want. A few months I bought a laptop and I wanted to get an Apple; however, it turned out that the only way to get a Mac laptop with a 15" screen was to shell out a minimum of $2k for a Macbook Pro. I was able to find a Windows laptop with a 15" screen substantially cheaper since I wasn't forced to shell out for a new Core 2 Duo to get the 15" screen.
- rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The torrent is under the Apple menu, Apple->Software Update.
I don't think 'the torrent' is up yet though.
More to the point, I wonder roughly how long it takes to get from this stage to general release?
I wasn't even aware that Apple did this, I don't recall ever seeing this kind of news before with
previous increments of Panther or Tiger. - node3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ketraal
"keep in mind, minor versioning allows for 10.4.10"
Actually, it doesn't.
Apple's formalized versioning scheme has a 1- or 2-digit major number, 1-digit minor number and 1-digit revision number.
ie: x.y.z or xx.y.z, but not xx.y.zz
That's not to say Apple can't arbitrarily decide to break it (although maybe not, if various software might make assumptions based on Apple's official scheme, thereby treating 10.4.10 as less than 10.4.2). - DaffyDuck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"In addition, my personal perception was that the Apple bashing tends to take a very different tone. There are a lot more attacks against the people who like Apple, whereas with Windows it is about the product, not the people."
This is just so right. By the way Rick, it's nice to see some intelligence on digg occasionally. Unfortunately, most postings in the forums here are at an elementary or middle school level. - shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Try deleting Safari prefrences if you haven't already >
~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.safari.plist
repairing disk permissions could help as a remote possibility too - cantankerous, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You look tense, I hope you're not working too hard.
- shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Historically, they haven't gone past .9 since I can recall... but they will almost definitely continue to release updates for 10.4 users as individual patches, even after Leopard comes out. That's was happened with 10.3.
- porkstacker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Hmm, no mention of Apple having addressed the ***** networking problems. OS8 - 9 were stronger in that area.
- uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Yeah, I see what you're getting at there. I guess it's just one of those gray areas. It would be nice if everyone could discuss things here the way you and I are now, for example. At least if someone reads what we've said, they can take something away from it, even if it's not directly related to the topic...as opposed to what we normally see. (I read some of the comments here, and I all I see is: "MOOOOOOO")
Oh well, what can ya do? It's true...everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it is "LOL! UR FAVORITE OS SUXX0RZ!" - MeltedUFO, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't even understand why anyone would argue about which OS is better. I have Windows Vista, Suse Linux 10.2, and Mac OS X installed on the computer I built.(yes it's a crack) I use them all equally so why argue. The only problem I have with Macs is you can't legitimately build one. I'm not an OS fan. I'm a computer fan.
- daload, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1nerd fight
- meatmcguffin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Did you install the latest Saft?
For some reason, it's causing my safari to destroy itself when javascript scripts are called (like the 'digg this' button) :/ - alternative724, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1double entandre?
am i getting something that isnt there or is the other guy a total stiff - skinfitz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3This will be the update that breaks 10.4 then to 'encourage' people to buy 10.5
It happened with 10.3.9 and disk images. - ibayliss, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Indeed microsoft sucks, but apple will continue to release versions & updates for 10.4, because of security worries, and other crappy stuff like that.
But......10.4 will live strong!
BaYlisS - alternative724, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Dugg up for being rational
Dugg down half of the fanboy replies -
Show 51 - 77 of 77 discussions
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