What is Digg?74 Comments
- nxusername, on 10/12/2007, -9/+45Not worth the heat, battery loss, and noise. I thought my old laptop had the be a ricer so I bought an 8.9 pound Dell. It was fast as hell, but it was not worth the heat and noise problems.
MacBooks are the perfect balance of performance and mobility, don't mess with 'em. - FrostyFire, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26Uhhh,
It's not rocket science....look at the design of the MacBook Pro...the form factor is extremely small. The card is underclocked for a reason! Go ahead and over clock it to Apple spec, A) voiding your warranty, B) reducing the life of your 3 grand laptop. - pion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Isn't it more a matter of 'clocked to specifications' rather than 'underclocked'...It's a laptop, which means it requires battery life and silence (which is addressed in the article). Now you know people are just going to read the headline and digg it...
- dimplemonkey, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15I can't wait to try this out...
When winter arrives and I need more heat out of my MBP. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16deafinately, heat is getting to be such a problem with these newer 'laptops' - i can barely use mine unless it's on a table!
- frem001, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16sounds like it will effect the warrenty
- MacDork, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14No, he meant "warranty" XD
- aaronm67, on 10/12/2007, -10/+16No, no it can't. Show me what benchmarks you mean, there has to be some flaw. There isn't some special speed that comes from the little apple logo. If you compare a Mac with an Intel Processor and ATI Video card to a PC with the same Intel Processor, the same ATI Video card, and the same speed RAM, there isn't any way the mac would perform better because they are effectively the same computer if both are running windows. This would be the same as building two computers, using all the same parts, and benchmarking them against eachother. If they have the same hardware, they will perform just as well as eachother.
- superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9No, it's that a lot of Mac users know how to tweak systems but are tired of doing so and are just trying to work.
I used to update ethernet drivers in Linux when a card would give me a problem, but nowadays I'd rather just have a working card to start with, you know?
So I bought a Mac because I COULD still tweak bits of the system if I liked, I just generally have no need to do so.
If you think about it, Apple's slow progreession through UI skins and features in OS X mirrors peoples natural progressions through X-Windows window managers and themes. It's having all the fun of an evolving UI where I don't have to drive the evolving all the time. - mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9This is probably the difference between Mac and PC users. PC users would overclock just to see where it can go, Mac users would not for fears of disrupting the device.
Also whats with a lot of the negative diggs? Are majority of diggers here Mac users? - Xiata, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Agreed.
Remember the iBook logic board issue?
Do you REALLY want to have history repeat?
If so, by all means, overclock your video card in your laptop, heat does wonders in crampt spaces. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9"From what I read on Digg in the past the MBP already has one of the highest levels of fan noise and heat of any of the notebooks in the industry. Why would I want to make a spectacle of myself by making it worse."
Really? Do you have any information to back this up, that Apple's laptop is one of the loudest "IN THE INDUSTRY"? Typing this from a MacBook Pro, I can say it's pretty silent most of the time. - dombi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6@ImTheDarkcyde: I have one of the newer MacBook Pros and it is not hot at all. I had a previous model (week 6 or 7) and I think the newer model is cooler. I have had it on my lap while working on it, and it didn't heat up much.
I played UT2004 just recently (while the MBP was sitting on the desk) and it didn't get too hot either. I think they fixed the heat issue with the newer releases. - perry753, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Who cares if they are underclocked? They were probably configured that way for a good reason...
- MacDork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Apple = Caddilac of computers. You're paying for a name, and now that they are all x86 it really is the same thing under the hood. Good job, you guys are so smart."
You've obviously never owned a Mac nor a luxury car.
Yes, a Cadillac uses many of the same parts as a Chevy, but the interiors are quieter, the seats are plusher and the dealer treats you a bit better. If you're the type of person who can't appreciate those finer points, then you're likely going to miss the little things that make using a Mac a more pleasant experience, too.
Further, you over-simplify the equation. It's not just about buying nicer hardware, it's about a nicer experience all around, which is based primarily on the software and the operating system. - MateyO, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3What's the point? You eek out another 5%....then the budget equipment you buy in 18 months is _twice_ as fast with no cooling. Overclocking really doesn't pay dividends.
- jicon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Surprise, surprise (NOT).
This isn't the first time Apple has done this. PPC Mac mini has an undervoltaged ATI 9200 chip, which doesn't have a proper cooling heat sync... hence underpowered for less power to fit in the small unit.
No wonder people have had dim VGA output, or, a DVI signal coming to my monitor that isn't to spec (Noticable as a flicker on several brands of monitors).
I'm all for innovation, but I get a little annoyed at the corner cutting sometimes. - eclectek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3No fans? Are you kidding me? Open up a Macbook or a Powerbook or an iBook. All have fans.
Would Apple make a laptop that gets to unsafe temps? Yes. And now they're attempting to fix that mistake with Revision D of the Macbook Pro. I'd know. I have the damn thing (and love it dearly).
So perhaps you should educate yourself before making baseless claims. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I have a dumb question. (didnt see it in the link) But can you clock this card up and down? Better yet would be if you could tie it to the energy preferences so that it automatically gets overclocked when its plugged in, but reverts to a slower speed when running on battery power.
Since Apple's always crowing about how they make the 'whole widget' you would think a feature like this would come standard. Instead they just clock the card down? Seems a poor choice. - kevnaca, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5I agree that it's clocked that way for the damn good reason not to fry your laptop or your lap. Thermal issues like this are most prominent in the MBP considering that it's one inch enclosure forces everything to be packed together tightly. The inside would be like an oven because of it's aluminum case. If you're going to do this, consider how hot the laptop itself will be. My laptop has lower end graphics compared to the ati1600 and it spews out heat when playing counter strike source. Looks like the MBP is fast enough for many games. Proceed at your own risk.
- flyindutchman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Notebook 3DMark 06 Results
Apple MacBook Pro (2.0GHz Core Duo, ATI X1600 128MB 1,528 3D Marks
Sony Vaio SZ-110B in Speed Mode (Using Nvidia GeForce Go 7400) 794 3DMarks
Alienware M7700 (AMD Athlon FX-60 Nvidia GeForce Go7800GTX) 4,085 3DMarks
Asus A6J (1.83GHz Core Duo, ATI X1600 128MB) 1,819 3D Marks
taken from: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2890&review=Apple+MacBook+Pro+Review
Not saying its proof, but the MBP should outperform the Asus which has the slower processor. According to the reviewer the benchmarks were done under windows on the MBP. - idean360, on 10/12/2007, -12/+14Who cares if its underclocked...it MUST be for a good reason. They still out perform most laptops on the market anyway.
- worthawholebean, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I got my mother a thing that keeps the laptop elevated off her lap, and it works perfectly. Her PowerBook is hot enough to make omelettes on... not to mention my friend's laptop which has a fan that can't spin up to full speed.
- KilgoreCarp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4But are other manufacturers underclocking to boost battery life and reduce heat as well? I wish I had a macbook pro, but I really think the benchmarks are mostly a moot point now that apple uses much of the same hardware available in high end windows machines. The difference is software and design.
- cyphin6, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I have to agree I've not noticed a lot of heat with the new revisions on the MBP,plus clocking the GPU and MEM to manufacture specs don't show that much more heat even after an hour or so of gaming. No artifacts have ever shown up in any test and the fan may be slightly louder but its not running the entire time for me cuts off every now and then, and the computer doesn't get hotter than it already is. I don't see the complaint about this I can see how someone who doesn't own this laptop and is not in a MBP owners position would feel. If this was any other laptop that was clocked to its norm, yes overclocking would be stupid and never recommended. But like I said this is a different laptop, and the GPU is "under clocked", as long as the internal fan pulls heat off the GPU you wont find heat issues that could cause damage. Though I haven't run a game for hours or used this overclocked setting for days, I don't see permanent damage unless you overclock it past 470/470.
- howdesign, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Yeah, they run hot as is. Got mine Friday and it's pretty toasty. I can use it on my lap with jeans though without a problem. I'm all done having children anyway! BTW, great machine! Cinema4D screams and Parallels is a joy! 1080p trailers are choice!
- dongiaconia, on 10/12/2007, -12/+13It really tells you something that they can underclock the video card, and it still can out perform some similar spec'ed systems built by other manufacturers...
- Terc, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@aaronm67
There is a little more involved than the cpu, gpu and ram, motherboard design and some "tuning" can increase speed slightly. You are right though, that apple logo does nothing. I believe what sixspeed was referring to was specs comparing the macbook pro with 2.16 duo to the 2.0 duo in a few hardware manufacturer's benchmarks. It is true however, that macbooks have one or two points better in some benchmarking tests under windows xp than other similar laptops. http://gearlog.com/blogs/gearlog/archive/2006/03/21/8212.aspx has the macbook benchmarked and a link to some benchmarks on similar hardware configurations. - surpher, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3My MacBook Pro is a omlette maker too :/
I too don't see the point in fiddling with the hardware. The battery life is just around acceptable, the heat becomes unbearable... I just got rid of the whining CPU (don't ask me how) and now the fans would spin louder? No, I couldn't do it and stay sane. - FrostyFire, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Uhhh, did you not read the title of this article?
- inactive, on 11/04/2008, -0/+1Whenever there's a story regarding Apple on digg, the first "attack" (and it's usually a very childish one) comes from a Windows or Linux user.
What's worse is that to make you feel better about yourself, they decide to post the same "Macs are overpriced" rubbish over and over. Let me ask you this, is a Mercedes Benz overpriced? Why aren't you going around telling everything they should just go buy a cheap Ford?
Perhaps because you haven't matured yet. Grow up. I'm proud to own a Windows and Linux desktop while now owning a MacBook Pro. Granted I got a $700 AUD discount, the price I eventually paid for this notebook is less than any Dell, Toshiba, HP, Asus, Acer, whatever laptop with the same configuration.
To those complaining about the amount of Apple stories on digg, DON'T CLICK ON THEM. How simple is that? There are just as many stories about Linux on the front page, so stop complaining.
The majority of digg's users should require parental consent before being allowed to add their comments, the Signal-to-Noise ratio is close to 1:100. - frem001, on 10/12/2007, -11/+12sorry my bad...finger vomit
- jasonnovak, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7Most PC laptops with the same card seem to be running at it at the stock 470/470, it's taking a pretty big cut ... the card must not get very good cooling in the mac
- djnick, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4enough with the apple/mac posts onthe main page please!!!!
- MacDork, on 10/12/2007, -10/+11Few can afford it? The mini costs $500, right? That's not a lot of money.
- Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3The underclock here isn't just Apple stopping you from getting too much value (as with ATi's 9800Pro being a 9800XT but with restricted firmware, for example... retards), it's an odd way of getting a graphics card with the right heat output. (As opposed to getting ATi to design a new card for them.)
The normal reasoning that because it's underclocked it will run fine at it's 'normal' clock-speed, (to put it another way, it's very overclockable) does not apply here; the MacBook Pro was only built to cool the underclocked card. (Or if you like, the card was underclocked to make it coolable.)
It might be electronically capable of a higher clock-speed, but I'd be sure to maximize airflow around the laptop before overclocking/normal-clocking the thing. - Nocturnalis, on 10/12/2007, -11/+12As if the MBP wasn't hot enough.
- Xiata, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Yeah I have Sager NP4750. This thing is loud as hell. At least a good solid 40db of noise at ALL times AND it is hotter than any MBP I've seen my friends carrying around. When I get in game, it jacks up to 50db and practically burns my palms.
So all you anti-mac flamers who claim 'durh digg said it was loudest evar'... please. You haven't seen a ***** laptop yet. - rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Damn expensive but elegant and the best designed space heater around. This would probably even fool the office space Nazi's.
- spoonmanp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0is there a way to check what revision your Macbook is? I just got a new Macbook pro and I would like to find out whether if it's one of the ones w/ the overheating problem.
- digga, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Communism? Are you sure you know what that means? I think not.
- josephacote, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2rebrad says: "From what I read on Digg in the past the MBP already has one of the highest levels of fan noise and heat of any of the notebooks in the industry. Why would I want to make a spectacle of myself by making it worse."
That's total ***** for many reasons: 1. There are no fans in any recent Apple laptops! 2. Would Apple really let their laptops get to unsafe temps? No.
It's interesting how the Apple MBP can run an OS that it wasn't even built for faster than many computers that were made specifically for XP, yet people still complain about the decisions Apple makes. - ZombieFlanders, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1True, but I would wager that the BIOS or EFI would shut the comp down if the card got too hot-even if that happened because the card was running at it's manufactured clock speed. My PC's BIOS shuts things down when the CPU or GPU gets too hot, and it's a 2 year old el-cheapo. I would assume that any new computer-regardless of brand-made in the last couple years would perform such self-protection.
- RichMan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2This is cool, if I had a macbook pro I would use Apple's lowered speed while in OS X, but while in Windows I would use the higher clock speed since the only reason I would be using Windows would be to play games where more performance would be needed
- alexdagrate, on 10/12/2007, -9/+8OMG! I am teh haXX0rz 2 teh maXX0rz!
And I have a 15" paperweight to prove it.
Still, interesting article. Proves to me that Apple needs to do a better job on cooling. - kerplunk, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I don't see why anyone would want to do this. If you are looking for amazing graphics power, maybe you should try the Dell XPS laptop (which is really a small tower, but sideways... hahah) or else use a regular computer. Notebooks have and will always be for mobility. I am on my MacBook Pro right now and it is perfect as it is. Maybe one day they will make external graphics cards, ha ha ha.
- cyphin6, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Though clocking the GPU and Memory to its normal may bring the fan on and alittle bit more heat, I seem to not see that many issues with this working. I do hear the fan running alittle louder than usual, but its nothing that bothers me. Plus if you have heat pad under your MBP you'll never notice heat issues. Though You only loose about 27-35 minutes of battery life. For me I don't play games on the plane I watch movies, listen to music,etc. So battery life is not even a concern for me since I wont be playing games off battery. Plus its not that bad with heat and fan noise. I highly recommend anyone that plays games on a MBP to do this tweak. Plus when ATI Tray Tools supports this GPU you can easily overclock the card only when you enter games. Which would make battery life better since the card isn't overclocked when your not in games. Again this is a simple yet amazing find and you will not to disappointed by the performance gain you will have!
- rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1You're a bright boy josephacote. Keep working and thinking hard and you may get promoted out of cleaning the grease trap at burger king. Maybe then you'll be able to lose the $199 Dell celeron you're using and buy a mac mini.
- xutopia, on 10/12/2007, -11/+9Can I be the 31239751th to say.... DON'T DO IT!!!
Macbook Pros are beautiful machines meant to be silent and work great without melting a hole through your desk!
Sorry for the trolling... - rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1piecewise, this is one of many references on digg about problems with the MPB;
http://digg.com/apple/Electronic_whine_from_MacBook_Pro_when_idle
Do a search and you'll find many more. -
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