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MacBookPro Burns Women's Leg, AppleCare Suggests "RTFM"
discussions.apple.com — Man drove home with wife while watching DVD on MBP, burned women's leg, Picture included.
allgeek- 640 diggs
- digg it
- allgeek, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10I agree, but even my MacBookPro is very uncomfortable after about 20 minutes.
- evilgod69, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16you should get apple to reapply the themal paste on the processor, apparently they put too much on in the factory, it should help.
- willcode4beer, on 10/12/2007, -14/+23You mean Apple, famuos for one button mouse usability, has designed a laptop that you are not supposed to use on you lap?
Thats freakin amazing, its gonna take years for the other computer companies to catch up. Then when everybody makes a laptop that you can't use on your lap, all the Mac fans will be like, "but Apple did it first". - tciny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Is that something they'd actually replace? Looking at Apples past efforts of recalling products (which is very very rare) I dont think they'd do it without extra cost. I have the apple repair center for austria a few hundret meters away, but I think they'd kick me out of there if I was to actually request that.
I actually like Apple a lot and use it as primary platform for a few years now, but when it comes to handling stuff like this I havent read much good about them. - Synchro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I have owned a lot of laptops (both mac and PC) over the years and every single one that I ever had on my lap and when it touched bare skin was uncomfortably hot. Simply put when it touches bare skin it is going to be unpleasent. my old 550 Mhz Compaq Laptop i had from work and my PB12" both had this. So I am not shocked that this happened to this lady. she shoulda noticed it was getting hot.
- drw2583, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12You've got to be kidding me.
That is no "burn". I've had second and third degree burns on most of my forearm before. Spare us the overdramatic "poor me" act.
It almost seems like you did this on purpose just to get attention...come to think of it, you just got BURNED by me! - mikeazorin, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Oh, but it's not a LAPtop, it's a MacBook!
- musicbear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2There has been a long on going problem with notebooks of many makes becoming excessively hot with use and it will continue to be true the more notebooks are being designed to replace one's desktop. This is a well known issue and simply, Apple should take the lead on this by having the warning be at the front of all their documentation and presentations on the proper use of their notebook. I don't think it is necessary to have it as part of their advertising or as part of the sales pitches, but it should certainly be clear, distinct and up front in the documentation that comes with the computer - more so than it is now at any rate.
They also have every reasonable expectation on their part that someone spending that much money on a computer would actually read the documentation that comes with it. They should also offer to make adjustments on obvious design issues on this bleeding edge technology at their own expense. They should also use the experience to consider designing notebooks in the future that reduce this issue so that one could use the notebook in a way that is not unreasonable - in one's lap in a transport of some sort.
Apple is also missing a marketing opportunity by not making an "iDesk" or similar. Something that does sit in your lap that shields you from the heat of the computer and give you places for the typical office bits and pieces you may normally use with your computer. I'm not sure why Apple hides from this. The positivity of meeting such a "challenge" head on would definitely make for customer service victory rather than ignoring it and leaving consumers to flounder due to no fault of their own - at least when it comes to the physical manufacturing of the notebook.
The G3 iBook I had was also hot enough to the touch that it was uncomfortable to use on my lap with out some sort of lapdesk or pad inbetween. The G4 I have now is no different. This has been an issue for years and should be something that any consumer doing their research before purchasing something this expensive should reasonably discover. I'm also surprised that no one has complained of the notebook ruining the finish of a piece of furniture from it's heat on the bottom.
- rusty_g, on 10/12/2007, -10/+51this is funny.....
"And you're the reason we have mattress tags that are 8-inches long and are illegal to remove (by penalty of law)
And warning labels on HOT COFFEE cups.
And "Don't stick your hand in a running blender" stickers.
And "Don't put your car in drive while unattended" in the owner's manual."
- A A P L- radu79, on 10/12/2007, -9/+18That guy didn't sue Apple, now did he?
I think it is perfectly resonable to complain about such an experience. My laptop (eMachines 6805) has a CPU rated at 60W I believe, and it's just warm underneath. Buying a portable computer that you can't use in your lap kind of defies the idea of buying a portable computer in the first place, because most of the people buy laptops so they can use them anywhere, not just wherever a desk is available. - whoatemydigg, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9Well some people arent tech savvy and there are laptops out there that dont get hot enough to burn you when you set it on your lap. If I handed you a calculator and it bit your finger off Ill say, "what you didnt know, those types of calculators bite peoples fingers off" and blame you for your ignorance.
- osbjmg, on 10/12/2007, -10/+25"Don't put a laptop in your lap"
- i64X, on 10/12/2007, -9/+19That's why Apple calls them "notebooks"
- andron, on 10/12/2007, -12/+10Its common sense a cup of coffee will burn you, put a laptop?
its called a LAP TOP, you put it on your lap.
Surely its Apple's fault if it gets too hot.
There's even that TV advert for a laptop (the one about racing cars) where I guy has one on his lap, I bet they don't overheat. (I forget what make it was)
I suppose you couldn't sue them if it was in the manual.
I guess this is why they don't call them laptops anymore as that would be a violation of the Trade Descriptions Act. - joel8x, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Manufacturers have stopped calling notebooks laptops for a very long time. You might see an uninformed retailer advertise one as a laptop, but I challenge you to find any Toshiba, Dell, Sony, Apple, HP, etc marketing material from the manufacturer that calls it a laptop. No one does because it is a liability to suggest that it is meant to rest on your lap.
- 4answer2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"And you're the reason we have mattress tags that are 8-inches long and are illegal to remove (by penalty of law)"
Those tags also have "except by purchaser" on the end of that oft quoted statement. - bipolarray, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1You are soooooo right Sir !
- hypercrypt, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5 "Its common sense a cup of coffee will burn you, put a laptop?
its called a LAP TOP, you put it on your lap.
Surely its Apple's fault if it gets too hot."
They are Notebooks not Laptops. - BehnoodMarvazi, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4The fact that you shouldn't use it on your lap defeats the whole purpose of laptops.
- dr00, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i agree.
those first comments are just priceless. and most of the people probably didn't even look at the picture before responding.
"OMGz IT"S A BERN"
"OMG RLY1? THAT SUXS"
- radu79, on 10/12/2007, -9/+18That guy didn't sue Apple, now did he?
- galisus, on 10/12/2007, -31/+5His wife certainly has a nice leg.
- kalphegor, on 10/12/2007, -18/+5yeah, and the other one is burned
- SwiftJ, on 10/12/2007, -6/+33The best part of this digg isn't the original forum post itself, but the awesome forum responses below it. My favorite : "Apparantley Im one of the few educated people around here that actually READ a user guide." Wheeee!
- zaid, on 10/12/2007, -11/+12I did not know (and this is a fact) that apple had so many "defenders of the faith", so to speak. I'm surprised as well to find that a LAPtop computer is not supposed to be put on your LAP...one dude's even debating that the MacbookPro isn't a laptop at all, its a notebook...so apparently (i'm using his logic here), you should hold it sideways. Why are people defending a company they have no stake in? What, do they own apple stock and apple stock only? Diversify, dammit!
- joel8x, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Zaid, once again, there is no company that refers to their portable as a Laptop. Go look for yourself, only misinformed retailers and consumers call them that.
- timmclargehuge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1So, does that mean by calling them "notebooks" that they come spiral bound? Is your "notebook" college or regular rule?
Changing the name doesn't change their basic function. I mean you sure don't buy that argument when it comes to spyware/adware, so why do you buy it when its Apple?
- estvir, on 10/12/2007, -23/+23thing is, a laptop shouldn't be hot enough to burn you like that.
when will apple admit it's mistakes ?- vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I took a look at: http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/
And did a search for the word "lap". Well... To be fair Apple doesn't mention the word lap on any of the notebook pages so maybe they don't consider them laptops ;) - phlyngpngn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I have a stove. It gets hot enough to burn me. Surely GE should be held accountable for this.
Honestly, some things just get hot. Unless it burns my house down, it's not their fault. I dont know about you, but I was always taught not to touch surfaces that may burn me. And a huge tipoff would be when my notebook computer gets warm. It's pretty obvious to me that when it gets hot, I should take it out of my lap to avoid burning. I've had several notebooks, and they've all gotten hot enough to burn me. Really people, it's common sense.
- vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I took a look at: http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/
- popularme, on 10/12/2007, -32/+12way to prove the point that mac users are idiots!
- tdowling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Way to prove the point that you're an idiot.
- RyeBrye, on 10/12/2007, -9/+28Those marks are supposed to be burns? Maybe they are - but since this retard didn't read his camera manual either he doesn't know how to use the "MACRO" button - so we'll just have to live with that blotchy shot.
From the photo - it could very well be hives or poison oak... or some kind of strange hickey...
Oh - and for the record... it's not Apple telling the retard to RTFM - it's the users on the forum. - avktm, on 10/12/2007, -10/+14
Laptops are not for laps -- certainly not in this age of processors that have the speed these do. Honestly people, do you expect dual 2.16 GHz processors to work at high capacity for hours and not generate a considerable amount of heat. The top of my case is pretty cool, but the bottom size is not, nor would I expect it to be. These computers should be called compact desktops not laptops -- then maybe people wouldn't put them on their laps -- especially when wearing shorts or a miniskirt ;)
-creative55- Brewno, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13They don't "sell it as a laptop" they sell it as a notebook.
- nic777, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11But they don't call it laptops. "Laptops" are those small machines first made in the late 80s which you could actually use in your lap.
Nobody sells them as laptops, its all notebooks - i.e. portable computers you can carry around.
EDIT: Brewno beat me to it - Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6Perhaps if apple put a sensible amount of thermal paste on, and brought some quality heatpipes not the cheap-arse ones they have, maybe it wouldn't burn someone.
I always knew that Apple computers scarred you mentally and made your IQ steadily drop, but physical scarring? Wow. - Nik420, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I have a Dell 2.46 GHz notebook, and I wouldn't dare put that on my bare legs. I can tolerate it for a while if I have jeans on, but it does get very hot. Laptops are no longer for laps, unfortunately.
- Teaboy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21That's why they're calling them notebooks (and not laptops) nowadays
- thinkdifferent, on 10/12/2007, -11/+7Actually Apple has referred to them as "Portables" for years.
- mcbesq, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5Wow, Think Different thinks so differently that he has adopted a corporate slogan as his handle so he can identify with the advertising better. That's real different thinking there. Way to obey.
"Think Different."
"Yes, we will all think different." - crythias, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2why isn't it think differently?
- klang, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4the keyword in "Think Different" is ... Think...
- crythias, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Think is a verb, which is modified by an adverb.
You don't move quiet. You move quietly.
- EGOvoruhk, on 10/12/2007, -10/+12"AppleCare Suggests 'RTFM'"...And rightfully so
I wouldn't put any type of advanced electronic on my body for an extended period of time, it just doesn't seem like a bright idea. If by chance I ever did do it, I would take it off if it started to burn. Seriously, why do it if it's annoying you?- crythias, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1some people have doctors put advanced electronics inside their bodies. Oh noes!
- checker, on 10/12/2007, -11/+10These laptops were designed for Alaska (may be Antarctica for penguins), don't you know?
- rcomegys, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Yeah, anyway you look at it, she shouldn't have put a hot laptop on her lap. This just shows that she wasn't thinking, and to complain to apple about it, and EXPECT THEM to do something about it, that's just stupidity. I agree with AVKTM in that, you can't expect a computer to be pretty & metal, and actually fast, without generating heat. I wouldn't put my laptop on my lap and let it sit there while watching a movie... Use a pad to keep it cool if you want to do that.
- RpgActioN, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5It's "woman's."
- mntpng, on 10/12/2007, -8/+8The lawyer that sued McDonald's for that spilt hot coffee incident is probably calling this lady right about now.
- mcbesq, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21McDonald's was sued because their coffee was served in excess of 190F, an unreasonably hot tempterature.
- mcbesq, on 10/12/2007, -18/+5Damn. I keep forgetting where I am. On Digg, truth is modded down and stupidity is modded up.
Coz me in Bizarro world, me comment in Bizarro voice in future. - fjolle, on 10/12/2007, -10/+6Coffee is best served at 200 F, else it gets bitter..
- KevyKev, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I'm a manager for a well known restaurant. We are required to serve coffee at a minimum of 185 F.
- Tyrekicker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I always like my coffee extra hot. I figure, if a coffee is given to me too hot, I can always wait a few minutes for it to cool down.
If it is too COLD on the other hand, I can't exactly wait a few minutes for it to heat up! - Strahd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Everybody has to bring that McDonald's case up whenever a "lawsuit gone awry" article comes up. McDonald's spent a fortune demonizing that woman (her name is Stella Liebeck). The truth is that she initially only asked for McD's to pay her MEDICAL expenses, and McD's had numerous chances to settle the case for her emergency room costs. But when they refused she took them to court and won $2.9 million (which is 2 days of coffee sales for McD's, not a huge amount of money to them). McD's gambled that the cost of litigation would be lower than paying a settlement and they lost.
But don't believe me, read the facts of the case yourself.
http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=785 - philtr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"If it is too COLD on the other hand, I can't exactly wait a few minutes for it to heat up!"
Just set it on your MacBook Pro. - MrSpontaneous, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Actually, it WAS McDonalds fault. In the hot coffee case, the coffee was so hot that it melted the glue on the seam that held the cup together. (McD decided to scrimp on coffee cup design)
If you're served coffee in a cup and it falls apart spilling its contents, who's fault is it? - deusx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That lady had to have reconstructive surgery on her groin and pelvis, if I recall. What's that tell you about the temperature of the coffee spilled? I doubt it was suitable for consumption in the intended orifice, let alone those located there.
- boredzo, on 10/12/2007, -17/+4I see no evidence that any of the users suggesting RTFM are Apple employees. Reported as inaccurate.
- nmap, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9the applecare guy told him on the phone (read the post again?)
- garyploski, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Except the original poster said:
I call Applecare this morning, they facilitate a repair by sending me a box... and John (the Specialist) actually said "In the manual, it says that the device shouldn't be placed on your lap."
While not a direct statement telling the OP to RTM it definitely smells like a bit-ol-hint from the Apple Tech.
- yensed, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Too me, that doesn't look like a Burn. If you slap the same spot on your leg over and over, you will get the same mark she did. I don't see why she didn't move it if its "Burning" her. I call BS on this story. But something does need to be done about the heat those things give off. I wonder how hot the mac-book gets.
- scratt, on 10/12/2007, -16/+3Darwin Award Candidate...
- CrocHunter, on 10/12/2007, -12/+6One problem: She's still alive.
- kalphegor, on 10/12/2007, -14/+2Fake, it isn't that hot to burn a human skin and a burn skin doesn't look like that!
- mcbesq, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Human skin will burn at 140F
- Jarda, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4That's Apple's premium!
- mcbesq, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11This is why Apple warns against using their notebook computers in one's lap. And why they don't call them laptop computers.
- fatchuck, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"This is why Apple warns against using their notebook computers in one's lap. And why they don't call them laptop computers."
Actually, they don't call them a laptop, a portable, or a notebook according to their web site, so any of those descriptions are valid. As far as warning people, I've never seen a pre-sale warning in their Apple stores or online that the laptop shouldn't be used on one's lap. Referring to the user manual after one's paid $1100-2500 for a laptop is disingenious at best.
- fatchuck, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"This is why Apple warns against using their notebook computers in one's lap. And why they don't call them laptop computers."
- dw2005, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4+digg for the headline
- StatusQuoRules, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5It is still running too hot even if it says in the manual it will get hot after extended periods
Mine doesn't now but was burning hot before a repair - this guys needs a repair to fix the heat problem - rr525356, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5This reminds me of the scene in austin powers where the guy is slowly run over by a steam roller, except a macbook takes much, much longer to heat up. Mine has ironed the crease of of my slacks, but never left visible burns.
- klang, on 10/12/2007, -8/+22Nobody takes responsibility for being a ***** moron anymore..
- mcbesq, on 10/12/2007, -10/+10From a legal standpoint, Apple, as a manufacturer, needs to take "foreseeable misuse" into account. Saying "don't put this computer in your lap for extended periods of time" is not enough. That a user would put the computer in their lap for an extended period of time is foreseeable. If the "overheat issue" becomes a problem, Apple would be wise to consider a recall.
- Kazaki, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3While expecting someone to put the MBP on their lap is reasonable, why expect them to keep it there while it sears their skin?
I'm starting to have flash backs to a certain Carlos Mencia standup about our education system.
- gypsyjoe, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6I do not think it is reasonable to manufacture a laptop/portable that gets hot enough to cause physical injury under any circumstances whatsoever.
Apple have knowingly compromised the safety of this product in favor of it's appearance.- guytoronto, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Heat is a byproduct of a fast computer. By your logic:
It's unreasonable that car engines get hot enough to burn people having sex on the hood after a drag race. - Kazaki, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1...Who the hell has sex on the hood of their car after a drag race?
On the other hand, using a portable computer on your lap has yet to be deemed illegal.
- guytoronto, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Heat is a byproduct of a fast computer. By your logic:
- kubedawg, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9ahaha stupid people with their silly laptops... This is why we should remove all warning labels from harmful chemicals and let people go at it.
but putting the blame on the company when it clearly states to not place it on a lap, THEN! saying how it loses functionality by not being able to use it on your lap? Who uses a lap top on their lap? I mean cmon!?
* end sarcasm here *
The company is not at fault because they don't ever refer to their devices as "laptops", but rather, notebooks.
quoting klang:
"Nobody takes responsibility for being a ***** moron anymore.."
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Who knows, his wife was probably on her period or something and demanded he call in and complain about it.- klang, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I totally agree by why stop at chemicals?
remove the warning stickers from everything..
... I hadn't noticed the laptop/notebook distinction.. well spotted - REBELinBLUE, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I'm sorry, but a few lines of text in a manual warning the user just is not enough. A lot of people don't read manuals and of those that do I'm sure a fair few just skim through. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that Apple should realise this like most other companies, who make sure health and safety warnings are clearly visible on the box or on the internal packaging before you can get the machine out. But clearly the uncluttered and "cool" image of Apple is more important than ensuring that every single customer is safe.
Apple should have realised that to most people, this would appear as if it were a laptop and so would use it as a laptop.
I do however agree that if she could feel it getting hot, that she was moronic to leave it on her lap. - Settra, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4>quoting klang:
>"Nobody takes responsibility for being a ***** moron anymore.."
so true..so true.. - fatchuck, on 10/12/2007, -7/+0"This is why Apple warns against using their notebook computers in one's lap. And why they don't call them laptop computers."
Really? Please point to the web page on Apple.com where they call it a laptop, notebook, or portable. Links please. - tdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1well a simple google search...http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-29,GGLG:en&q=site%3Awww%2Eapple%2Ecom+notebook
obtained this as the first result
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html
- klang, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I totally agree by why stop at chemicals?
- Snowdaddy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4lol I agree completely Klang......if you burn your leg using a laptop why are you going to call apple care? The sad thing is I'm sure some other idiot did the same thing and probably tried to sue so that's why its now in the manual. Common sense.......
- GreatBunzinni, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8People call applecare to complain about defective or poorly engineered products. If a laptop runs so hot that it burns the user's lap then it fulfills both motives.
- lasmith, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I worked with 5 different notebook/laptop/portable computer models in the last 3 years and guess what, the bottoms on ALL of them get hot. I ended up getting cooling pads for users who don't have docking stations. Fans point to the bottom of the machine! No one with a brain INSISTS you use a laptop on their laps. Common sense people. And for you people that are holding on to "its called a laptop, it goes in your lap" Words can eventually expire with the changing times. You can look up prehistoric defintions for words in the O.E.D.
- Tuscanspeed, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5You know, my HT P4 3.2Ghz LAPTOP doesn't get hot enough to even warm the plastic on the casing. If those shots from Apple's build guide for these things are correct. They're using far too much thermal paste and causing overheating problems.
But like any company, let's go ahead and sue your consumers and blame mistakes on the stupidity of people in general. It's a great way to build PR. The responses from other forum users is priceless though. To think people actually believe that a portable computer of any kind should ever reach any kind of temp that could cause a burn is ridiculous.
If I was to get a Mac like this, i'd have to seriously question it's build. I have not come in contact with another laptop that ever got near a temp hot enough to actually burn you. Warm to the touch, yes. Sure, that's believeable.
But hot enough to burn...no way.- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7But to me, that picture looks like it was 'warm to the touch'. That looks like my leg does after using my Powerbook for a while (she was watching a DVD, so it's fair to assume it was an hour and half). That isn't a burn, that's a heat rash.
- choy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Emphasis on *PLASTIC* for your HP laptop. Plastic is not a good conductor of heat. No surprise your laptop isn't hot. Go try it out on an aluminium laptop, it will get hot too, unless it has three fans and sounds like a hoover. My friends ASUS aluminium laptop gets hot too. I didn't see him cry bloody murder.
Please people think a little. Metal conducts heat, gets hot. Hot not good for lap. It doesn't matter what brand you choose, the computer maker can't reinvent physics and conductivity.
GEEZ! - Tuscanspeed, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Uh huh..not HP. Also, I can pop off the plastic and set my hand on othe copper heatsink for the CPU and guess what? IT'S NOT HOT. Just warm to the touch. Like all well built PC's should be. However, I will admit it does sound like a hoover when the fans come on :p And as a side note, this HP I have sitting next to me that's been running a hard drive surface test for the last 2 hours isn't hot enough to even warm your pants.
Yes, that photo does look more heat rash than burn. But i've worked on these. Not all of them are getting that hot, and there have been people that have re-greased them and they don't get near as hot as before the procedure. Just from what i've read, seen, and experienced working on these things, i'm sorry, going to have to call foul on Apple for crappy workmanship.
- Jarda, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4If this person is a moron for using their laptop in their leg then the only conclusion I can make is that Apple portables suck as real lap-tops.
Either way, it doesn't look good for Apple. - lotusleaf, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3How is this news?
Maybe if the laptop had made someone cluck and lay an egg or something ... - jcmead, on 10/12/2007, -11/+15Oh My the apple fan boys are out to protect their baby (sorry favorite company) .
yea go ahead bury me!! - anonymoustache, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8It doesn't matter that the MBP is a particularly hot notebook, any notebook with any amount of heat kept on human legs while operating will eventually heat up so much it can burn, the heat builds up because it can't go anywhere. Anyone can figure that out, without reading a manual. Perhaps once a MBP burns a small animal or baby to death people will realise it's just stupid to put a notebook (or anything electrical that gets warm) on any part of your body, or any surface that'll contain the heat.
- iSlayer, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7Agree with you lasmith, the word laptop was thrown out and replaced by notebook instead. It wasnt apple's fault that it got hot, it was clearly put in the manual, its been reported online as to how hot they can get. Clearly the guy must have been living under a rock to let his wife use it on her lap. Serves him right.
- tdyer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2the word laptop has been dead for a decade. i remember when i got my first notebook. hint it was a 486 and shipped with DOS 6.0
- mcbesq, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3OK, here's a hypothetical NOT involving computers:
You're painting your house. You take a screwdriver and pry the lid off the can. In the process, the shaft of the screwdriver breaks and hurts you. There is a warning on the screwdriver that says "Do not use this screwdriver to pry off paint can lids."
Can you sue the manufacturer of the screwdriver? If so, why? If not, why not?- lasmith, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3You shouldn't be ALLOWED to sue the manufacturer if you ignored the warning label and did it anyways. But I have a feeling that legally somehow it would be the manufacturer's fault.
- klang, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2If you don't know what a screwdriver is supposed to be used for, leave it alone and seek professional help (for using the screwdriver)
- mcbesq, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Here's the answer to the hypo:
The screwdriver manufacturer can be sued successfully.
It is the products-liability concept of "foreseeable misuse." Sometimes, a warning is insufficient to divest a manufacturer of liability for injuries arising out of the use of its product where the misuse is foreseeable.
Screwdrivers are well known to be used to pry things, such as paint can lids and doors. It is misuse, but it is also foreseeable. The manufacturer is required to supply the sufficient tensile strength to anticipate that misuse.
A laptop, at this point, may not be intended for prolonged use in one's lap. That may consitute "misuse." However, it is foreseeable. A manufacturer, in addition to warnings, should take steps to protect against that misuse. That might entail making the computer slightly thicker to accomodate insulation or even sacrificing aesthetic design to put insulation on the exterior. - shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1mcbesq-
that's just silly, you know as well as I that the screwdriver case would get laughed out of court.
plus I'd hardly call that lady's splotchy skin an injury. Sounds more like the complain'y self-important type of American idiot (yes I live there). They probably just got their mbp cause it was trendy. - klang, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Like a bartender is liable when he sells you a drink and let you drive, it's his fault when you have an accident.
The guy that sold you the screwdriver should be liable! He should have noticed that you were a moron, that were likely to hurt himself....
there is something wrong with that picture, but I can't put my finger on it .. - mcbesq, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No, the screwdriver case doesn't get laughed out of court. It is used as the classic example in every torts class in every law school. It stands for the principle that where a company knows about a misuse of their product and is in the position to prevent that misuse, the company must guard against that misuse.
Here is another example from an actual case:
A stove manufacturer puts a warning on its stove telling users not to use the oven door to rest items. It knows that it is common practice for people to rest roasts of up to 30 pounds on the door. If you've ever cooked a big turkey or made homemade corned beef, you'll understand. Can the stove manufacturer exonerate itself with the warning alone or should it make a door that will withstand excesses of the 30 pounds? The answer is that the warning alone will not exonerate the manufacturer. The manufacturer needs to protect against that common misuse.
A warning cuts both ways. It puts some burden on the consumer to heed the warning but it also acknowledges that the manufacturer is aware of this potential problem. If Apple has a warning not to use its computer in one's lap for prolonged time, it should also take some precautions from the likelihood that someone will use the computer in his/her lap for a prolonged period of time.
Klang, depending on your State, a bartender is liable for selling alcoholic beverages to visibly intoxicated patrons. It's commonly referred to as "Dram Shop" liability. It arises out of statute and holds the bar vicariously liable for damages caused by the intoxicated patron. In NY, you can find it under Alcohol and Beverage Control Law 123. The classic case arises out of drunken fights.
In NJ, a 7 year-old was awarded $96 m. (mostly punitive) where the company with a beer concession sold 18 beers to a patron at a football game and the driver then crashed into the childs car. She was 3 years old at the time of the accident. She is quadriplegic and requires a venitlator and 2 nurses to stay alive. She will likely not live past 50. Let me put it this way, at trial, the judge cried.
- jcpiercy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5How about the IPad , its a Apple shaped piece of insulated rubber
Three sizes Small , Medium and Holy ***** lose some wait you Fat ass , get off the internet
JP- zaid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5if apple knows this is a problem, why not add this insulated rubber to the bottom of the machine in the first place? I thought apple was all about "design meets functionality"...their overheating problem seems a clear case of "design OVER functionality"...and yes, I do believe that not making sure a laptop you sell can be safely used on your customer's LAP is a clear oversight, if not blatant idiocy.
- splendidbob, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4I dislike macs and all of apples products as much as the next man, style over substance and all that, but in this case
1)I, and everybody I know is able to detect heat by means of touch. In fact, I don't even need to touch something to tell if its hot, sometimes I can detect the heat of an object by being merely close to it.
2)Its stated in the manual, If you cant read, why would you need a laptop (using computers relies on the principle of understanding words)
3)Computer components give off heat. They need cooling. As computer components get more powerful they give off more heat, therefore they need more cooling. Laptops (sorry notebooks;)) are particularly problematic because of the enclosed space and lack of airflow. There are 3 possible choices when buying a laptop:
a)cool, powerful, noisy
b)cool, feeble, quiet
c)hot, powerful, quiet
Take your pick.- digger-D, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I will add one more to your list:
hot, feeble, quiet
I have an HP notebook that gets so hot that I had to buy a cooling pad for using it on my lap, which is 90% of the time. But it's a Celeron chip with low performance, so I wouldn't of guessed that an under-performing processor could generate so much heat. The cooling pad works great and it's so thin that I can take it with me anywhere. Actually, I need the cooling pad even if I'm using my notebook on a table because it gets so hot that even simple applications take a hit in performance.
My biggest mistake was getting a Celeron processor. It is such a dog! Never again will I make that mistake. My next notebook will be an Apple with plenty of performance. I just accept the fact that I will have to use a cooling pad as long as I want to use a notebook on my lap.
- digger-D, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I will add one more to your list:
- rafifyalda, on 11/04/2008, -5/+6Really, give the guy a bit of a break. If the heat is such a widespread issue (which I believe it is), Apple should be doing their best to highlight the fact it shouldn't be used on your lap. That's if Apple actually cared what its customers thought, which I've come to the conclusion that, they really don't..
I think it's time Apple puts the following additions to the MBP specsheet:
- Cooks eggs 4x faster*.
- Plays a non-stop musical chime**.
- Captures the animal spirit with life like animal sounds!***.
* 4x faster than a pan.
** Also known as whine.
*** Also known as mooing.
Starting at $2000 RRP!
I reapplied the thermal paste, and I must say I must've done something wrong, because I still get the same temperatures. I wish there was an app I could control the fans with to see if they're actually doing anything.
Doesn't Apple realise that its PAYING customers are having to resort to all sorts of measures just to get their attention? What does Apple do? Turn their backs and open a 24 store so they can make more $$$$ and Jobs can buy some more turtlenecks. - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5That, to me, doesn't look like a burn. It looks like a heat rash. It looks the same as my leg does after I've been using my laptop for an hour and a half (length of a DVD). It's prickly heat, it is NOT a burn.
This is what a real burn looks like: http://www.cmyoung.com/images/6-16-03-1.jpg - notice the colour of the skin. The blistering. The fairly even covering. Compare that to the thing the poster posted and it's easy to see the difference.- rafifyalda, on 11/04/2008, -2/+3Don't forget there are degrees of burns.. not that I know how to classify them.. the one you posted looks rather serious. If that hit Digg, maybe Apple will finally pull their heads in.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Yeah, there's different degrees of burn, but they all have the same features... a burn is a burn.
OK, for comparison, here's a photo of a heat rash: http://vonhof.typepad.com/photos/the_best_of_bad_feet/saodull_arfeettop_sharon.jpg - Now notice the similarities with the posted photo. It's uneven and blotchy, almost like a nettle rash - and that's a bad heat rash! A heat rash irritates the pores and very outer skin. A burn cooks your flesh.
I just can't believe people are associating the posted photo with 'burn'. It's nonsensical. Has no-one ever seen a burn before? - choy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Crap photo, but not a serious burn. Superficial, will heal with no significant mark. At *worst* 1st degree (confined to epidermis, least serious degree burn).
So no need for anyone else to trump this up anymore as a serious injury ok? I'm a surgical trainee, I see these things as part of my practice. - rickpable, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Well, the picture did pretty much cement the fact that it's indeed a heat rash...but good God, you couldn't find one without those nasty ass toe nails?
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1rofl sorry, it's the first one that showed what I wanted to show :D My apologies!
- dpower, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11I'm surprised at the lengths the Apple apologists are going to defend a poor position. I'm an Industrial Designer, it's just not acceptable that a surface on a product like this can cause harm. Not by a longshot. You have to think of the entire lifetime of the product, environmental considerations and probable usage. What if someone buys it second hand? What if the manual gets lost? What if a child picks it up incorrectly? What if it damages the delicate veneer on your nice antique table? Perhaps you've loaned it to a friend. They have sacrificed safety for aesthetic quality. A disclaimer in the manual doesn't excuse plain bad design. It is unrealistic to expect everyone who comes into contact with this product has read the manual. Writing this on my laptop. On my lap.
- rafifyalda, on 11/04/2008, -4/+5I would no way let a child anywhere near this MBP. It would easily cause severe burns. My question to these Apple defenders is, what if you use your MBP according to the manual, but you have sensitive skin? What are you to do? Use gloves when you want to use it?
Us frustrated MBP owners aren't doing this because we have nothing better to do. We're doing it because we're being IGNORED and it's wrong. In a batch of 50 MBP's on a production line, if 20 don't get hot enough to burn, but 30 do, how is that "within spec"? Is within spec some sort of blanket statement? "Oh, you know, it's close enough, nobody will care!"
I'm still waiting for the day that the front page of Digg has a story with 'Apple' in it, yet this time it's not about some damn new store, it's about Apple ADMITTING THERE'S A PROBLEM and offerring ACCEPTABLE SOLUTIONS.
'Apple admits faults with MBP and offers to repair' - something along those lines.
Here's to hoping.. I doubt it though, Apple's doing their best to cover up any problems in order to keep MacBook sales coming through. - zaid, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7So apple has fanboys. Its no secret (though I only now realize how big of a force they are). But that doesn't mean Apple can cower behind its fans and expect them to rationalize and apologize for Apple's mistakes.
This kind of an blatant fanboyism can only be fought against with another, hopefully more potent fanboyism. When Kevin Rose burns his leg while doing an episode of Diggnation, this issue will finally be BIG NEWS... - threemagic, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1When you go into a restaurant and they set down your plate and tell you, "Hey, watch out..it's hot" do you put it on your lap then tell the restaurant that it's UNACCEPTABLE that they gave you a hot plate (which in reality is not really the way a plate is supposed to be).
No you don't.. - shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1so exactly how does being an industrial designer qualify you as an engineer, much less a consumer safety advocate? I'm a graphic designer but I usually confine my "expert" comments to things like UI, iconography etc.
Bottom line. the early MBPs run too hot... if this wasn't Apple it would be a non-story. It's the risk you take being early adopter. STFU and take it in, get the heat paste redone. I'm sorry but this guy's wife is an airhead.
So remember those of you who bitch about so many Apple stories-- they get all the negative ones too. - dpower, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Some Industrial Designers concentrate on pure style, others are more familiar with Engineering, Materials and Processes. What qualifies me? Well my course included electronics and EMP (Engineering Materials and Processes) modules for four years. Maybe that qualifies me. Or maybe the fact that I've been working in Industry for the past six years.
Either way it doesn't take an expert to tell you that if a consumer electronics device gets hot someone is going to hurt themsleves. There are many mehods they could have used to dissipate the heat. They chose not to bother.
- rafifyalda, on 11/04/2008, -4/+5I would no way let a child anywhere near this MBP. It would easily cause severe burns. My question to these Apple defenders is, what if you use your MBP according to the manual, but you have sensitive skin? What are you to do? Use gloves when you want to use it?
- Brewno, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6That doesn't look like a burn
If it was a burn, to incur such a burn would require long exposure to the notebook, if his wife is in such pain, why didn't she move it?
EDIT: I do however think apple needs to fix heat problems. - HPSauce, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Ugh, some people. It's a damn dual core processor, running at 1.8GHz upwards. It's the latest and greatest, and it's going to run hot. Not going to call the involved person stupid, but if I was careless enough to let the gradual heat of a laptop burn my lap, I'd keep schtum about it, as it's without a doubt the user's fault. As a future addition, maybe Apple can introduce an automatic clock-throttling utility to lower speeds and thus heat to aid the simpletons.
Obviously the person involved thinks that what goes on inside a machine is magic and fairy dust.
And with all the neg modding, it looks like someone can't handle the flak - which happens to be the truth.- dpower, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5People shouldn't have to know about the internal workings of a product just to use the damn thing. Most just don't care. Isn't it just great that you know this? Bet it makes you feel real good about yourself. Well done HP. Well done.
- HPSauce, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Thanks. But another simpleton? OK then, I'll make it easy for you -
IT DOES THINGS FAST. IT GETS HOT.
Let's just hope common sense prevails, eh? - mcbesq, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2HP:
How does your car work? Please give us a detailed description of all the inner workings, from the injectors all the way through the drivetrain and the electrical system.
We're waiting. - HPSauce, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3This is a bit worrying - you two truly believe that the user is not to blame? Most people don't know how the tech in their items work - but at the risk of sounding condescending (which I can't really avoid here), I'll repeat it:
IT DOES THINGS FAST. IT GETS HOT. Wii? - dpower, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2You are missing the point HP. Not everyone knows that processors get hot, and it unreasonable to assume they do. I'm an Industrial Designer HP. I have learned all about which components get hot and how to shield people from them so they don't have to worry about it. Even if we take your words literally, "It does things fast it gets hot". It has no moving parts and people cannot physically see that it is doing anything fast. It's not intuitively hot. My fan moves fast, it keeps me cool. I can touch my PC which is just as 'fast'. It's hot because it's got a lot of power running through it, not because "it does things fast". A hundred times a day you are shielded from nasty things without ever knowing it.
- brickbat, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Burn or not....the argument that it's in the manual so it's her fault is *****. You only get the manual after you buy it. Before she bought it, she had a reasonable expectation not to get burned by her computer. If the manual said....DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TOUCH THIS COMPUTER WITH YOUR FOOT OR IT WILL GO NUCLEAR AND KILL EVERYTHING WITHIN A RADIUS OF 3 MILES. Would that be ok? Of Course Not. Why? Because there is a reasonable eexpectation that consumer products will not go nuclear.
- noGoodNamesLeft, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Unless it's a nuclear bomb, of course.
- NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Oh, for heaven't sake. What next? Will someone sue Apple if they repeately slam their MacBook closed on their fingers and get arthritis?
I use my 17" PB on my lap all the time, and I know enough to move it around if it gets uncomfortable. - thexder, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1The boiling frog story states that a frog can be boiled alive if the water is heated slowly enough—it is said that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will never jump out.
- choy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4re: the boiling frog tale (ie if you heat water slowly the frog won't jump out and will be cooked) is an URBAN LEGEND.
Info here :www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.htm
Geez some people are gullible. You don't need a medical degree to know it's bull.
For people who want to believe the boiling frog thing: shut yourself in a cold room and turn a small fan heater on. Do you not notice when it's getting too hot, or do you still believe you have to "superheat" to know when it's hot.? - thexder, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Funny that's where my quote is from
- choy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4re: the boiling frog tale (ie if you heat water slowly the frog won't jump out and will be cooked) is an URBAN LEGEND.
- gamabunta, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2"It is absolutely your fault if you don't read the manual, especially when the manual not to do something EXACTLY what you did. It's kind of funny how life wors sometimes, when people say something is going to happen, and it does, you get mad?"
That guy is an idiot.
Guess that's why Apple started calling them "portables", you can take everything with you, including the immense heat. - choy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Sorry, I side with the posters on the forum that say the onus is on the wife.
The picture of the leg is crap, but in my opinion (I am a doctor) at *worst* that is a minor 1st degree burn.
Secondly, it is *very* clear in the manual that Macbook pros should *not* be placed on one's lap for a prolonged period. In this case it is clear that this was done.
Thirdly, whilst there are many people that are eager to blame apple, this could happen with *any* laptop. It's ALUMINIUM for heaven's sake. It's METAL. It conducts HEAT. I don't leave my hand on the hotplate until it burns, and I don't complain it's the manufacturer's fault if I get burned. Commonsense - hot metal = take it off my lap or put something between me and it.
I think we've all forgotten about the incident about 4 years ago where a guy burnt his testicles on a laptop. Let me refresh everyone's memory:
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1297406/posts
No one bitched or sued the manufacturer of the laptop here.
Why is everyone so keen to point the finger at apple for this?
ps that news article will also remind people that it's actually *unhealthy* to use your notebook on your lap for etended periods of time, especially males. So another reason not to do it.- dpower, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"It's Aluminium... it conducts heat"
So Don't use Aluminium! If Apple knew it got this hot they could have taken measures to make it safer. They deliberately chose not to. It was a bad decision. If something gets hot, people are going to get hurt. As an Industrial Designer, we learn all about how people use products and how to design things to keep people safe. This product is unfit for purpose. They haven't changed it a) because it would have sacrificed their pretty design (to make more money) b) because it would cost a lot of money to remedy. Anyone who believes otherwise is just fooling themselves. - fatchuck, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"Secondly, it is *very* clear in the manual that Macbook pros should *not* be placed on one's lap for a prolonged period. In this case it is clear that this was done."
Truth in advertising. Is the manual available before a $1100-$2500 sale is made? Nope. Is there *any* Apple Store or web site documentation that their laptops must not be used for a "prolonged period" on the lap at the risk of a "minor 1st degree burn?" Nope.
"Thirdly, whilst there are many people that are eager to blame apple, this could happen with *any* laptop."
Funny, it doesn't happen with my 12" Dell 710M, and it has even less space for heat management than an MBP. Of course, in all fairness, I've never used the 710M on my lap for more than 3 hours straight.
"Commonsense - hot metal = take it off my lap or put something between me and it."
'Cuz God forbid you should expect a professional corporation's product engineers to create a product that doesn't burn you with "prolonged exposure" when you're paying $2000-$2800 for it.
"No one bitched or sued the manufacturer of the laptop here"
The story in this digg reflected that the customer contacted Apple Support by phone and was told, among other things, to read the manual to remedy a problem that was not disclosed before the sale took place.. That is acceptable if coupled with prior in-store warnings about this product, but completely unacceptable if you're not warned before laying out the cash for it. - CyberTroll, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Fat Chuck
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBookPro_17inch_UserGuide.pdf
Yes as a matter of fact the manual is available.
So now only is she stupid for not taking a hot piece of metal off her lap but she was too dumb to research a $2000+ laptop, but I guess like you she was unable to find it in the MANUALS link on apples site(in the support section if you hadn't figured that out).
BTW the macbook manual is available now as well, my guess is that it says it shouldnt be used on your lap. - fatchuck, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0"Yes as a matter of fact the manual is available."
And as a matter of fact, you're missing the point. If MBPs shouldn't be used on one's lap without a heatpad, then Apple should be cluing the buyer in *before* the sale takes place - not after, especially given the sheer number of new users they will be attracting from the Windows world and desktop worlds. The idea that anyone should have to pre-emptively search for a user manual before making a purchase is ludicrous. I can just see it now - "Son, I want to buy a new laptop/blender/electronics product." "OK Mom, first go find the user manual and then we'll talk." F-ing brilliant.
- dpower, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"It's Aluminium... it conducts heat"
- lagnut, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6God forbid if you place your LAPtop on your LAP
isn't that why they where invented in the first place?- klang, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2no, they were invented to be portable.. furthermore, Apple has no laptops .. they have several MacBooks ..
IBM has ThinkPads .. I wonder if people do that, before they put a multiple GHz computer on their legs .. think, I mean. - The_Decryptor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"It's a laptop, it's doesn't matter that Apple don't sell them as laptop's, i said it is"
Apple don't market it as a laptop, and even say don't put it on your lap for extended periods of time, but some people are just stupid (and some people like to redefine product descriptions to make their arguments sound good "that's not a car, it's a death-trap" < see how good their argument sounds now?) - dpower, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0It is a laptop. MacBook is not a word in the English dictionary. MacBook is a marketing phrase. If Apple renamed elephants you'd follow them into the abyss. Go read No Logo by Naoimi Klein.
From Websters Dictionary:
Main Entry: laptop
Function: noun
: a portable microcomputer having its main components (as processor, keyboard, and display screen) integrated into a single unit capable of battery-powered operation - EmberX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It's actually a Notebook, when they started putting faster processors that got hotter inside portable machines they switched it from laptop to notebook in order to suggest that it should not be placed on the lap.
- CyberTroll, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Every company changed it from laptop to notebook years ago. Just because you are to stupid to notice this, despite there not being a laptop for sale for years now, does not change the fact.
- klang, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2no, they were invented to be portable.. furthermore, Apple has no laptops .. they have several MacBooks ..
- HPSauce, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Looks like whoever even points out that the user is in the wrong gets neg modded.
How mature! - deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3It's stupid to blame the burn on Apple.
It's stupid to say that you shouldn't use a laptop on your lap.
But, it's not like this problem is unique to Apple. -
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