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- newbill123, on 08/04/2008, -1/+2110K == An annual financial report. It takes two forms, one to the shareholders (which is usually just glossy puffery) and one filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. (A 10-Q is filed on a Quarterly basis).
The SEC Form 10-K is much more rigid and demanding about the content. Not disclosing known risks or filing misleading numbers can get you in deep trouble.
Why did two such dissimilar reports evolve to have the same name? My guess is so the company can point to it's glossy 10-K puffery unless someone demands the US SEC Form 10-K specifically.
From the looks of this, it looks like this is talking about the risks Microsoft is describing on that official form. - superkendall, on 08/04/2008, -2/+20Microsoft can easily kill themselves with this move too - do you understand how much revenue Microsoft sees from the Apple division? For office it's around a QUARTER of the revenue. Can you imagine the shareholders being happy at dropping that?
Furthermore the iPhone has no Office, so dropping office support for the Mac does nothing to stop the flow of iPhones. - estacado, on 08/04/2008, -1/+1510K?
- aristotle0dude, on 08/03/2008, -2/+16I assume that is 1 percent of all cellphones sold and not just Smart phones.
- streak, on 08/03/2008, -1/+15The 10K clearly warns of Apple, not just the iPhone!
- PhillyMJS, on 08/04/2008, -1/+14You forget that all Macs are now Intel based and can run Windows in a virtual machine. Anyone who really needed Office could run the Windows version in a VM, if the Mac version was killed. I use Outlook 2003 on my Mac, because the Mac version of Office's Exchange connectivity blows.
Microsoft would never do it, though, because it would be hard for the DoJ to ignore such a blatantly anticompetitive move, and because Microsoft makes a boatload of money from Mac Office. - DelMonte, on 08/04/2008, -0/+13I wonder which fruit has been sold more...
Apples or oranges? - superkendall, on 08/04/2008, -1/+12I hate to repeat myself, but it's not about the degree of control - yes Apple controls the apps that are allowed in the store. But it's a very loose degree of control and in most cases really does not effect many developers or users. And while you say they "can" disable features with the push of a button, the reality is they have not - and it's not like other companies do not have the exact same capabilities. Instead with a "push of a button" Apple seems to be ADDING capabilities, not removing them. The platform may not start out with all the abilities people want but Apple is at least moving in the right direction by adding to, not subtracting from, the platform that is OS X Touch.
- DelMonte, on 08/04/2008, -3/+14Oh no!
Apple are controlling themselves! Call the DOJ! They dictate what applications and features come with their own computers, they prevent themselves from shipping Macs with other non-Apple OSes. I heard that they give themselves a penalty of $200 for each Mac they sell without OS X...
Apple must be angry that they can't chose what to bundle with Macs and which OS is sold with it, because Apple forces them to sell Macs with OS X and the iLife suite! - Dumbledorito, on 08/04/2008, -4/+14This should, in theory, give some Apple fans fits:
Microsoft, long decried as being monopolistic and controlling to the point of being likened to an Orwellian dictator, has apparently started worrying about Apple products. They worry, it seems, because not only does Apple control the software, as Microsoft does, but the hardware as well, one-upping them in the Iron Fist department. - ExRe, on 08/04/2008, -2/+11Ok, we found a line that says "A competing vertically-integrated model, in which a single firm controls both the software and hardware elements of a product, has been successful with certain consumer products such as personal computers, mobile phones and digital music players" in Microsoft's 10k...
How can we stretch that into an article saying something about Microsoft being scared to death about Apple? - PrometheusBorn, on 08/04/2008, -1/+10I find downloading apps through the App Store a vast improvement to the way I download apps on my computer.
So.... please, Apple. Control away.
Just try to rachet up the quality control, though... some of these Apps blow and slow down my iPhone. :( - DiggRage, on 08/04/2008, -0/+8How would Microsoft have prevented Apple from writing an application that runs on Windows?
- dmazzoni, on 08/04/2008, -0/+8That would have been true as recently as three years ago. Today it wouldn't make any difference at all.
In the short term it wouldn't matter at all, because Office for Mac wouldn't suddenly cease to function. Everybody who already has it would be unaffected, and people who really really need it would pirate it at first.
The potential for hundreds of millions in revenue would definitely be enough for several potential competitors to step up and fill the void. OpenOffice and iWork might not be good enough now, but that's because there's no motivation. Imagine if there were millions of Mac users forced to either choose an office suite or give up their Mac...I'm sure we'd see the bugs and limitations worked out of existing Mac office suites pretty fast!
Also, iWork is totally fantastic. For 95% of what most people ever use Microsoft Office for, iWork is actually much better once you learn how to use it. No question, though, that the transition period is hard. - Me1000, on 08/04/2008, -1/+9Only a very very small portion of OS X users require Office. Most people would be perfectly fine just using iWork or an open source alternative.
- DelMonte, on 08/04/2008, -0/+7MS was forbidden from bundling software with Windows way before the IE debacle, as they could impose to PC manufacturers any piece of software they wanted because they owned 90%+ of PC OS market. PC OEMs simply couldn't refuse as MS threatened them with penalties or simply terminating their DOS/Windows license, and considering that almost everyone was using DOS/Windows, there was no viable alternative for them.
OEMs that wanted to make deals with other software companies to bundle competing software were encountering many difficulties coming from MS, such as the difficulty to remove the bundled software (such as IE) and the threats. All of this was proven in court.
MS didn't get sued by the DOJ for the bundling itself, but rather for the fact that they were using their monopoly on PC OSes to impose software to OTHER companies. That was the illegal part.
Apple doesn't force other companies to bundle software, they are "forcing" themselves to do it, and there's nothing illegal or wrong about it. Apple can chose to bundle anything they want with their own computers, just like video-game console manufacturers do. - superkendall, on 08/04/2008, -2/+9Why would it give anyone fits?
It's never been about the degree of control that Microsoft has had, it's always been about the ways in which they used that control and power. - Zaeboes, on 08/04/2008, -1/+8You almost had a point, but I seriously doubt any console has outsold the various generations of ipods.
- stirlo, on 08/04/2008, -0/+7any console stats are dubious, there's so much misinformation and trolling out there! good luck finding an accurate count :-)
- JonLatane, on 08/04/2008, -3/+9iWork, crap in comparison? Apparently you've never used Office (2004 or 2008, take your pick) or iWork before. The only thing Office does better is - you guessed it - compatibility with Office documents. And hell, sometimes iWork does it better for Word 97 documents.
But yeah - MS could never kill Office for Mac. First off, as the poster above stated, it makes too much money. Second off, they have contracts with Apple. If they killed it and didn't offer Apple some decent API to make an in-house version, they would be using their office software monopoly in an anticompetitive fashion - a bit of a legal no-no. - FredFredrickson, on 08/04/2008, -2/+7Why would you wonder that? That's like wondering if more iPod's than Ferrari's have been sold, and then claiming the iPod is the better product because it has indeed sold more. Stupid.
- BrendanSheehan, on 08/04/2008, -0/+5Exactly, where's the monopoly when customers are free to buy other branded stuff. If you're tied to Apple, you do it by choice. Most folks don't choose to be tied to Windows, that's just what you had to buy (were pretty much told to) before (besides Linux, which the average Joe never header of).
- superkendall, on 08/04/2008, -1/+6Correct since they passed the 1% figure sometime in the first three months of sales last year...
- PrometheusBorn, on 08/04/2008, -0/+4By the time Macs create enough of a dent in MS to really hurt them (at which point they might consider stopping the cash flow they're getting from Office for Mac), I think there's a good chance MS Office will have some more serious competitors in the online realm.
- JQP123, on 08/04/2008, -0/+4If I remember correctly, Ballmer's quote was also made in context with the initial price of the iPhone. Apple slashed the price very shortly thereafter.
- superkendall, on 08/04/2008, -5/+9Balmer's stated 2-3% limit was of the SMARTPHONE market, not the ENTIRE market. Apple surpassed 2-3% of the SMARTPHONE market some time ago.
Just another confused Apple Hater I suppose. - natenovs, on 08/04/2008, -0/+4they also said they were concerned about "geo-political conditions, natural disaster, cyber-attack or other catastrophic events disrupting Microsoft's business" in their Q4 profit reports. pretty standard press here...
- cowsgoquack101, on 08/04/2008, -4/+8Well, the playstation 1 & 2 have sold more than 200 million units worldwide, and the ps2 continues to sell like crazy. So, yeah games consoles have outsold all what, six generations of iPods?
- superkendall, on 08/04/2008, -0/+4Possibly. No one ever said some of the features they add are new in any way. But again it's still an expansion of the platform.
And if you want to transfer files, some of the third party apps like File Magnet will probably let you transfer them over WiFi. Why would you use Bluetooth when you can use WiFi, or email documents? You seem to fall into the same category of Phone Cavemen, who want things like MMS that are totally unnecessary in a world of modern communication mechanisms like email. - jamesdew, on 08/04/2008, -1/+4No, that doesn't make any sense. MS was forbidden from bundling IE with Windows because they were deemed to be using their dominance in the OS market to improve their position in another market (the browser market) which isn't fair.
Apple however are trying to trap their customers into a multi-layered business model where you pay at every stage.
e.g. I have an iPod, apple put their itunes prices up, perhaps i could move to another downloading service (no)
I have an iPhone, apple applications have become expensive/crap I wish to purchase my software else where (no)
I like OSX but I feel that iMacs are overpriced can I use their OS and get my own hardware (no)
I need a new CD drive as mine broke can I just buy any CD drive and put it in my computer (no)
This is the opposite of the ideals of a free market economy and competition. Apple are only trying hard now to build their customer base, what happens if they get a large market share?
And before you point it out I know you can do lots of these things with 3rd party tools, but you are not supposed to be able to and your average joe won't be able to either. - kelly, on 08/04/2008, -1/+4Again, they mention Apple specifically. It's not like there is confusion there about who they are talking about.
- mrBitch, on 08/04/2008, -0/+3RE: "MS didn't get sued by the DOJ for the bundling itself, but rather for the fact that they were using their monopoly on PC OSes to impose software to OTHER companies. That was the illegal part."
This is the part that confuses so many who ask why it's Ok for Apple to bundle software - because Apple is not in the same relationship as MS is with their (past) strong-arm tactics with the manufacturers of PC hardware. - Buckwyld, on 08/04/2008, -5/+8I think Apple should be treated the same way MS is treated in the world of antitrust. No matter how large or small the market share.
- PrometheusBorn, on 08/04/2008, -2/+5Good point. I haven't seen any MS stores around lately promoting 3rd party apps.
- ThirdPrize, on 08/04/2008, -0/+3M$ moves into the hardware market only supporting new software and a very limited number of hardware platforms. Experience becomes more Mac like and all the other hardware firms move to Linux.
- Macintoshreader, on 08/04/2008, -3/+6The iPod has been sold a lot more than the XBOX 360.
iPod sales: 140 million
XBOX 360 sales: 19 million - jamesdew, on 08/04/2008, -1/+4If you add up Gameboy, GBA and DS sales that comes to 276 million, (source wikipedia of course.)
- superkendall, on 08/04/2008, -1/+3I'm guessing the number of Touch devices (iPhone or iPpod Touch) will exceed the number of 360's sold later this year.
More interesting by far would be the number sold crossing over DS or PSP sales, but I think that will take longer (though probably next year). - MvTCracker, on 08/04/2008, -3/+5if you said that 3 years ago before the Intel mac ipod iphone and vmware I would agree with you
and the perception by some that apple is "easier" is not always true but draws in new users anyway taking away more market share from Microsoft and the software/hardware partners it works with...they support ms and ms supports them - Noctem, on 08/04/2008, -2/+4This is standard fare for a 10K statement. Companies state reasonable risks in 10K forms. They've included statements about Linux in previous 10K forms.
Nothing to see here, folks, move along. - PhillyMJS, on 08/04/2008, -3/+5Well, because they usually dismiss or just flat out refuse to acknowledge Apple, and now they have publicly identified Apple as a threat to them that may affect their financial performance. That's news.
- DelMonte, on 08/04/2008, -1/+3Well I was replying to his comment, not yours. Are you replying to me?
- Zaeboes, on 08/04/2008, -3/+5Really? Thanks, I'm actually impressed. I knew the ps2 was still going strong, but I figured ipod would be over 200 million by now.
Edit, there are over 150 million ipods sold worldwide[see wikipedia, ipod] So yeah, it's pretty close. - bradleyland, on 08/04/2008, -0/+2Strawman.
No one said MS was "scared to death" of Apple. The title and description of the article use the word "warns", meaning they're making the SEC aware of the risk associated with selling software only. - mrBitch, on 08/04/2008, -1/+3NOTE: "baby" in the above context refers to what Microsoft executives called Apple's Quicktime for Win95.
- MacParrot, on 08/04/2008, -0/+2@Kanidia
CrossOver takes care of that pesky needing Windows to run Windows programs problem at least for some programs (Office being one of them, Valve games as well) - jo21, on 08/04/2008, -2/+4actually it was 0.6% worldwide
before iphone 3g, iphone 3g sale are report yet and won't be til the end of q3.
so its imposible to know its market share now.
by the way almost every company outsold the iphone over all worldwide.
even the LG with just one phone the viewty. - ZachSka87, on 08/04/2008, -0/+2Okay, but if you're going to use every generation of iPod, you might as well use every generation of xbox, too
- anokun7, on 08/04/2008, -4/+5apparently, you have not heard of OOo. Let me help you: http://www.openoffice.org/
- tnoy, on 08/04/2008, -2/+3The T61 I got was about 1/2 the price of the equivalent Macbook Pro.
Cheaper on the high-end? Apple hasn't been competitive there for over a year, -
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