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- deadbaby, on 12/28/2008, -4/+124Engadget should really stick to writing stories about unboxing cell phones because they don't do a very good job on articles that require technical detail. Engadget, let me do your job for you:
System Preferences on OSX is an application that can use plugins so developers can centralize the configuration of their service into one standard UI front end that also includes the core system (first party) configuration utilities. All of the first party plugins will be 64-bit by the time Snow Leopard ships. The third party plugins will need to be re-compiled for 64-bit or the user will have to restart System Preferences in pure 32-bit mode.
Apple had a choice, break all third party plugins or give the end user the choice to wait 10 seconds and have System Preferences restart in 32-bit mode. Obviously they made the right choice. Mac developers are quick about updating -- in fact already several popular System Preferences plugins are 64-bit/Snow Leopard ready and it hasn't even been released yet. (including no public beta)
In the case of any normal application that is 32-bit only the end user won't see any difference. This specific feature only applies to applications that would need to host 32-bit third party plugins. The only other OSX apps I can think might need to use this feature would be Automator and QuickTime -- although I believe the Perian guys already have a 64-bit build out so that takes care of the #1 reason you'd want to run a QuickTime plugin. - trodemaster, on 12/28/2008, -1/+38Yes snow leopard will run both 64bit and 32bit apps. If a 64bit app attempts to load a 32bit plugin it can restart the app in 32bit mode to load the plugin. Expect this annoyance to motivate people to update their plugins to 64bit eventually.
- ileftfark, on 12/29/2008, -2/+26I know, right? I heard soon, you'll be able to type messages over an interconnected network and have other people all over the world see your messages! LOL! The future is here!
- chkdg8, on 12/29/2008, -1/+23Wow. Spoken like a true geek. Respect.
- mrsteveman1, on 12/29/2008, -1/+20Why? He added........like 20 lines of useful information to the thread, you have yet to add even one.
- daeken, on 12/29/2008, -2/+16Uh, no. All Macs made in the last year (and a half?) are 64-bit. The Core 2 Duo processor in macbooks, imacs, etc is a 64-bit processor. Leopard is a 64-bit OS, but most of the userland components are still 32-bit, which is what Snow Leopard is rectifying.
- piginawig, on 12/28/2008, -7/+20Netzwerk. Thats pretty awsome.
- brundlefly76, on 12/29/2008, -1/+13I like the way you copied and pasted it on Engadget comments in the third person.
- fbogner, on 12/28/2008, -7/+18come on.... this screenshot is quite old! and he is only missing the 32bit version of the panel
- bigsteve, on 12/29/2008, -0/+9While they don't do "public" betas, as in, they don't release their product for public scrutiny, they do release their beta OS products to their developers. The devs are under no real NDA to not discuss what they're working on with the world at large. I'm sure when he said "public beta" it was just a misnomer, and given everything else he brought to the thread, to jump on him for something silly like that is kinda dick.
- inactive, on 12/29/2008, -1/+9Or you could just go to Apple.com and skip all the conspiracy nonsense: http://www.apple.com/macosx/snowleopard/
- emt1451, on 12/29/2008, -1/+7I just refuse to use what you consider to be a "computer"
- bigsteve, on 12/29/2008, -1/+7Yet another dip who doesn't know how to turn off Apple stories in preferences...... Next!
- brundlefly76, on 12/29/2008, -0/+5stealthspc - how is that Itanium treating you anyway?
- Elranzer, on 12/29/2008, -0/+5On PowerPC G5 it was. The first Intel builds were 32-bit, since the first Intel CPUs they used (Yonah) were 32-bit only.
- robdazomba, on 12/29/2008, -2/+6Back when the mouse and GUI were still a new thing and only on the Mac, PC users used to bitch endlessly, claiming Macs were for people who can't use computers. Turns out it was just jealously and Apple was so far ahead of the curve many of these "real computer" users couldn't see where things were going. But it's nice to see confirmation that Apple is far ahead of Microsoft once again.
- kreatre2007, on 12/29/2008, -0/+4It's likely that this is just something that is part of the developer release software. Apple wouldn't make setting a system preference this complicated. Starting with the Core 2 Duo machines, all Macs are 64 bit. So, in the long run it makes sense to eventually phase out software support for 32 bit machines. Snow Leopard is not meant to add loads of new functionality. It's only to optimize the OS and phase out PowerPC support. Unlike other PC manufacturers, Apple is not joined at the hip with Microsoft and can therefore remove legacy support from their OS. I guess my only disappointment is that Apple made such big deal about the G5 processors being 64 bit yet, Snow Leopard won't support them. Therefore, it is quite understandable that anyone with a Mac G5 would be a little annoyed by this change. By the time that Snow Leopard ships, the newest G5s will be nearly 3 years old. Time for an upgrade!
- bigsteve, on 12/29/2008, -3/+7Most serious devs will have their app 100% compliant before 10.6.0 even drops. Then come the vast minority that won't get their act together until 10.6.4, if at all. :)
- 3Den, on 12/29/2008, -0/+3Apple needs to be careful - one long touted selling point of Macs is that they have a longer useful life.
I bought one of the last round of Powerbooks.. and I'm still using it now. Given battery life, wear and tear, and barring freak accidents, its good for at least another year.
IF they move TOO fast, cutting support, and removing features.. they'll have problems. - compgeek, on 12/29/2008, -3/+6Not a bad choice on Apple's part at all. This way they don't break any old 32 bit apps. Very very wise choice imo
- groo68, on 12/29/2008, -2/+5wasnt osx always 64 bit?
- inactive, on 12/29/2008, -0/+2Thats why most who use 64 bit apps use MS OSes in 64 bit.
- robdazomba, on 12/30/2008, -1/+3Apple was ahead in terms of UI. And all the things you cited as example of things where MS was ahead of them didn't come until later so I'm not sure what your point is. I didn't say Apple has *ALWAYS* been ahead of MS. In fact, I was a bit of a Windows fanboy myself in the mid-90s (but no more.) I'm just humored that I hear all these frightened Windows fans falling back on that old "Macs are for people who don't know how to use real computers" argument just like the early days of the GUI. Does that mean Apple is way ahead of MS again? Sounds like it.
- titlesaysitall, on 12/30/2008, -1/+3"That OSX has service packs that you pay for every year or so"
Service packs? They're full fledged Operating System updates and an Operating System in itself.
So you're saying that I am saving money because Microsoft couldn't get their ***** together for a period of time. I love idiocy. - Mutiny32, on 12/30/2008, -0/+2More like 2001. XP came in 64-bit.
- kreatre2007, on 12/29/2008, -0/+2I don't agree. Over half of Apple's sales are to new users. All of those new users are buying Intel machines. Since the last round of Mac G5s will be nearly 3 years old when Snow Leopard ships, this should not be too much of a problem. Reliability of the hardware is a great selling point but, it is not the only selling point. I'm an Apple certified tech and I marvel over Apple's engineering know how every time I open up a Mac to repair or upgrade it. Again, it still comes back to Apple's statements regarding Snow Leopard... It's initially meant to optimize the OS and remove legacy components. In the end, we fall on that old phrase: You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. There will be some pissed off customers but, Apple needs to move forward if they are to continue the growth that they have experienced over the last 5-6 years. I tend to upgrade at least every 2 years so, this won't affect me. However, it's understandable that people who have not moved up to an Intel Mac will feel left out in the cold. In the end, how long can you reasonably expect Apple to keep supporting an old Mac? I have an 18 year old Mac Classic that I have just for nostalgic value. It still works too! My iPhone has a thousand times the processing power and over 400 times the storage capacity :)
- Rudegar, on 12/29/2008, -0/+2long words für den Sieg! :P
- philz, on 12/29/2008, -1/+3Actually German usually sucks as a language for user interfaces.
Why? Those are always designed for English and therefore the spacings are made accordingly. German words are almost always longer.
For example:
File -> Datei -- well, ok 1 character more.
Edit -> Bearbeiten
View -> Ansicht
See where we're heading? Skype is a good example for this, you need to make the window much wider just so you don't have to rows of menu items. - Sparky9292, on 12/29/2008, -4/+6Vista Basic (full edition) = $199.99 + 64 bit ~ $15.00S&H = $214.99 + tax. Ultimate? ~$300
Mac OS X Leopard Home Basic, 32-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Home Basic, 64-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Home Premium, 32-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Home Premium, 64-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Business, 32-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Business, 64-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Ultimate, 32-bit: $129.99 + tax
Mac OS X Leopard Ultimate, 64-bit: $129.99 + tax
The best part? You can buy all 8 versions on the exact same disc for... $129.99!
I'm just going to assume that the Ultimate version of Snow Leopard will be $129.99 + tax for 64-bit, while Windows 7 Ultimate will be around $400 at release and they'll probably still charge a shipping fee and make you wait 10 days for the 64-bit version. - inactive, on 12/29/2008, -3/+4Dear Apple, welcome to 2007.
- mylestaylor, on 12/30/2008, -1/+2I don't get where this whole "OS X updates are service packs" idea came from. Compare OS X 10.2 to 10.4 and you'll see enough differences to show you that it's they aren't service packs, where you're saying that in 5 updates you're basically just getting service packs.
- darkism, on 12/29/2008, -0/+1Like everyone at 37signals, then?
http://www.apple.com/education/profiles/37signals/ - Kamujin, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1Forgive me, but all I remember of Leopard was Bootcamp coming out of Beta and Time Machine which just "me too"s windows shadow copy.
This is a service pack. - Elranzer, on 12/29/2008, -3/+4It's nice to see Apple catching up.
Microsoft has had 32-bit/64-bit hybrid environments since Windows 2000 Server LE and the Itanium builds of Windows XP. - mrBitch, on 12/30/2008, -0/+1RE: "Reliability of the hardware is a great selling point but, it is not the only selling point. I'm an Apple certified tech and I marvel over Apple's engineering know how every time I open up a Mac to repair or upgrade it.
Again, it still comes back to Apple's statements regarding Snow Leopard... It's initially meant to optimize the OS and remove legacy components. In the end, we fall on that old phrase: You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. There will be some pissed off customers but, Apple needs to move forward if they are to continue the growth that they have experienced over the last 5-6 years."
All good points. - aerofoo, on 12/29/2008, -2/+3deadbaby - you make several good points, but you don't explicitly mention that it is an official OS X System Preference pane (Network) that is triggering the warning. Apple probably just hasn't completed porting the Network pane to 64 bit yet, but as you mention, it certainly will be converted by the time Snow Leopard is released.
- mrBitch, on 12/30/2008, -0/+1@jabber RE: "most who use 64 bit apps use MS OSes in 64 bit."
OSX running on the PowerPC G5 was a full 64 bit OS that WORKED (those that tried XP-64 were very quick to go back to using the 32 bit version of XP).
Apple had to create a 32 bit build of OSX when they moved to the (then) 32 bit intel chips.
As Elranzer already said :
"The first Intel builds were 32-bit, since the first Intel CPUs they used (Yonah) were 32-bit only." - techdever, on 12/30/2008, -0/+1you did say 'it's nice to see confirmation that Apple is far ahead of Microsoft once again.' . I simply pointed out that it is simply not true. And with regards to the UI, I urge you to get an 8core mac pro and run 2-4 vmware virtual machines in OSX. Now install vista 64 in bootcamp and do the same thing. On OSX, the whole freakin' UI locks up: the dock, the menubar, even rightclicking doesn't work (sometimes even the mouse cursor locks up) while loading the VMs. On Vista, everything works ok... I can close other windows, use the taskbar, etc.
The way the UI looks isn't really an advantage... I can always put an osx leopard theme in windows. But i can never put a different theme on OSX. The UI in OSX is un-skinable. Sure for a year everything is very nice because it looks the same. But after that it gets pretty ***** boring.
As I previously mentioned, i love apple hardware but hate OSX - Kamujin, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1Don't feel bad. Your not the only one. Most Mac fans I know had no clue their kernel was still 32bit before I told them.
Apple is well known for deeply skewing the truth in its marketing. - Kamujin, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1Except for the giant "64 BIT" on the Leopard web site and the carefully chosen words designed to confuse the average person.
- fbogner, on 12/29/2008, -0/+164bit version :D
- Kamujin, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1Except most people buy Windows with a new computer for $50-$100.
But yeah, keep pretending that your right if it feels good. - defectDS, on 12/29/2008, -3/+4lol. The funny thing is that that page no longer applies. In fact, it's quite the exact opposite now.
*flips on the dozens of "I'm a PC" ads and billboards* - mercurysquad, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1You're probably using really badly designed applications (Skype is a classic example). The #1 priority in ANY kind of i18n scenario is that the UI elements should be dynamically spaced, or if it has to be static, a UI expert carefully rearranges the widgets etc. to conform to each language. It's like the ABCs of internationalization, and development tools (e.g. Visual Studio .NET or Xcode) have specialized tools to help i18n experts rearrange (or formulate a strategy for dynamically rearranging at runtime) the UI components of an application to accomodate different interface languages.
- Macintoshreader, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1All versions of OS X since 10.3 Panther have had 64-bit support. Just not a 64-bit kernel, and that's what's gonna be different in Snow Leopard.
- mercurysquad, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1There is no skew in marketing, anyone who cares whether their kernel runs in 64bit mode or not will probably know that xnu in Leopard is 32bit – it's a widely known fact and very well documented by Apple themselves.
- solid12345, on 12/29/2008, -7/+7Meanwhile i'm enjoying my 64-bit Adobe CS4 on Windows already.
- lupinglade, on 12/29/2008, -4/+4OLD
- inactive, on 12/29/2008, -3/+3You forget -
That OSX has service packs that you pay for every year or so
So those using XP pro payed about 250 ?
And those that bought OSX in 2002 ( to keep updated) payed $600 by now.
So if you buy the upgrade version of Vista and have your XP CD it will cost you - 180 bucks.
With stand alone full Vista $250.
You're still at least 100 ahead if your an MS user. -
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