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Is serious gaming in Apple's future?

iprong.com — Apple is looking for a games developer and all kinds of speculation has come to the surface...

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  • lordfoul, on 10/12/2007, -30/+8Go Apple.
    • ajb2015, on 10/12/2007, -21/+8My next computer purchase would be a mac. I'm not moving to Vista, but it's sad to think I'll be stuck with XP until games come to Linux or Mac.
    • axel2k, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12They are looking for "a games developer," not a whole drove to create a team.
    • Fentekreel, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I'm just wondering why everybody is on the DX kick what ever happend to opengl? Not to many games support it though still i bet it could hold its own aginst the DX core
    • mglmouser, on 10/12/2007, -9/+5Everyone went for Dx because it had shaders and thus nicer feel for things and better performances than OGL until this one started having shaders. Add to that a good SDK to make things a bit easier and a stupendous market share and it's a no brainer why there are lots of games for Windows/Dx while other platforms (OpenGL only platforms) dont.
    • shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18"Everyone went for Dx because it had shaders and thus nicer feel for things and better performances than OGL until this one started having shaders. Add to that a good SDK to make things a bit easier and a stupendous market share and it's a no brainer why there are lots of games for Windows/Dx while other platforms (OpenGL only platforms) dont."

      thats not what happened, there was never a serious performance difference between the two (openGL was generally seen as faster, and glide was seen as fastest) directX started gaining traction because:

      A. it did more than graphics (input, sound etc)
      B. Microsoft invested millions upon millions into it because they knew they could use it as a tool to keep their monopoly running nicely.

      seriously openGL was born out of a need for a graphics API, directX was created to maintain a monopoly and has more money behind it (nobody working on openGL does it for serious cash) thats the way it is.
    • Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I really don't know why DirectX is used. id software and many other companies (mainly Raven though) have made amazing games with amazing graphics using OpenGL (and I guess SDL etc). Incidentally those games are also cross-platform.
    • sardion2000, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4No, never. Ever. Well if they do open up to all third party hardware vendors and gain a decent marketshare to get at least DirectX... oh wait thats owned by MS isn't it, okay I go back to my original estimation and say it will not happen in the next 5 generations of OS platforms for the PC. By then I expect the PC to be mostly Niche like Vinyl is today and everybody will be locking into a 3 year upgrade cycle while us PC guys will always have our good old trusty PC with Decades worth of abandonware on teh Darknets.
    • brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2OpenGL is a graphics development platform and DirectX is a gaming/multimedia development platform.
      DirectX solves a ton of development problems which are not even a part of the OpenGL charter.
  • WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -22/+12Go for Nintendo! I want iTunes on my Wii!
    • kevin45, on 10/12/2007, -9/+19Stay the ***** away from my precious..
    • Ricky28269, on 10/12/2007, -12/+2@kevin45
      LOL. Same here...
    • adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2(insert wii on itunes joke HERE)
    • shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5"(insert wii on itunes joke HERE)"

      pardon? i'm sorry but regardless of the fact that wii jokes died a long time ago there's no obvious joke in that....
    • KyleMistry, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4iNtendo!
    • dearreid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@shrewduser -- there is if you spell it "wee."
  • mwdcodeninja, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4now if they can just get off their ass and develop drivers for the new gforce 8800gtx all will be right with the world.

    PCGamer just reviewed the Mac Pro with a comparable DX10 compatible custom built pc system and the Mac held it's own but still came in as only second best with it's Radeon 1900. They admit tho that if they ever get support for the DX10 cards, and especially Nvidia's new 8800gtx, then it will be a force to be reckoned with in the gaming market.

    It stands to reason tho that with the dominance of the PC games, Apple will have an up hill battle to say the least to gain recognition as a gaming platform. Their best bet is to make the PC gaming hardware work with the mac... and allow us to boot to windows for some hard core Crisis gaming in full DX10 glory.
    • CanOfMDAmp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Except for that whole part about DirectX being a Windows thing.

      Mac gaming means OpenGL.

      So if you use a Mac to bypass that whole problem..what is the point?
    • jcaino, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5this is an excellent reason to open source drivers....allows cross-platform use
    • shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8the 8800 is not a "directX card" directX is the api, it works with openGL just the same and there are linux drivers for it...

      there's no such thing as a directX card.
    • BlackKnight6, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7He is referring to the 8800GTX being DX10 compliant (SM 4.0, etc). In a way, there ARE cards of certain HIGHEST supported DX level. Goto newegg.com, you can filter video cards by DX level.

      That aside, one of the biggest things that keep gamers away from Macs (other then lack of games and support) is the fact that Mac hardware is not like the PC in which you can upgrade each part easier and cheaper, big on the cheaper part. I have a PC, obviously, and I upgrade parts all the time for my games. I love Windows and have had a Mac before. I just like Windows/PC because of the things that the Mac lacks (mainly the games and cheaper/more modular hardware) and in my eyes the Mac is for simpler people (that is not an insult, I just mean my grandma would get a Mac from me but all my friends I would give them a Windows PC).

      My system runs great and never crashes (unless it is BF2 that causes it, that game will never be fixed it seems). Unfortunately I will probably get buried for saying I like an MS product but hey, I do and I am being honest.
    • mikesbaker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Problem is that many gamers hate Macs.
    • MeatBiProduct, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Why would they hate macs? You can choose from a ton of great games.

      World of Warcraft....
      Warcraft 3....

      Um 1-2-3 ABC? and I think flash games are supported on the internet....

      Have great games and they will come. Of course Apple has to play catchup and then convince a billion dollar industry that their computers which as we know have a small market share, are worth the investment to either a. create new games for or b. port games to.

      Until they have a library and SDK and fully documented system API's for gaming they will never be taken seriously.

      They have turned a blind eye to gamers for years and thats what gamers are doing to them now. No one takes OS X seriously as a gaming platform because even Apple itself doesn't take it seriously.

      What was the last "must have" game for the OS X platform. The simple answer is that there has NEVER been one.
    • mikesbaker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1so you can play war craft and crappy flash based internet games. Can you play BF2 on a mac? There never will be a must have game for the mac because most gamers use PC and have spent major $ on them.
  • Kinser, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28The short answer is no.
    • zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -34/+6Mac should just stick to their current customer who just browse web and check email. That's pretty much they're good for. (Their ads said so, not coming from me)

      They will be only good if you can install a PCI express card in them.. currently Dream on Mac Gamers!

    • cdmarcus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8zdiggler... huh?
    • zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -13/+1Wait.. I'm sorry I found some after a few web searchs, Good one cost as much as decent console system.
    • cdmarcus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8zdiggler, you know NOTHING about Macs. Many people who use Macintoshes are designers who use them to create movies and music (more so than PCs.) In addition, they don't use PowerPC chips any more, so it's not Mac G(whatever) any more.
    • praisethelard, on 06/06/2008, -1/+8zdiggler, if their current customers just browsed the web then their current customers would just buy a $300 eMachines instead of a $1000 Mac.
    • cdmarcus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sorry about above post, the bit about the G(whatever) was supposed to be a response for another comment.
    • WiZZLa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5inbred, that $300 eMachine doesn't look as pretty.
      A Mac Mini might be a better solution.
    • xkidmidnightx, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3Videogames are for virgins and nerds. Most mac users are neither.
    • zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -12/+4All my customers who got macs and got a tons of $$$$$$ only use it for email and web. People with hobbies like building and programing model air crafts, programming and a pilot use PC's. RC guy got a tons of software for his controllers and radios.
    • cdmarcus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Well, zdiggler, your customers are idiots.
    • geoffpado, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8@xkidmidnightx

      Bah. It sounds like you're trying to play up the Mac, but you're wrong.
      I'm a Mac developer.

      Mac user? Check.
      Gamer? Check.
      Nerd? Check-MATE.

      Mac gamer nerd since 1991, and proud of it.
  • lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -9/+16Macs are good for their style and ease of use as well as the undeniable status symbol. People usually buy them for those reasons.

    They will never be good for gaming, not as long as apple has a chokehold on the hardware suppliers. If you have a mac, you can only get memory, CPUs, displays, video cards, etc from a very limited number of manufactorers. PCs have little or no restrictions on who makes their parts so there is competition for manufactorers both in price and performance. Gamers who really know hardware will always choose PCs. For that reason, game makers will always make games mostly for PCs. If Apple had a less oppressive computer parts policy, that might change.

    And gaming for the ipod? I don't think that will ever be described as "serious gaming."
    • MrSunshine, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Games are the reason to sell hardware and therefore dumping the prices. It started with Windows and now the spiral is continuing. Manufacturers have found out that they can make money with it and got their junkies. There's absolutely no need for new hardware every six months other than for games. If you need the latest shading effects just for gaming, it's your fault.
    • Alcorr, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Double post. :/
    • Alcorr, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Agree 100%
    • fangorious, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7"if you have a mac, you can only get memory, CPUs, displays, video cards, etc from a very limited number of manufactorers"

      You can use memory and displays from any manufacturer. There are only 2 CPU manufacturers in the game, and you can run Mac OS on either if you can get around the TPM code. Regardless of that fact, do you also complain about not being able to replace the CoreDuo in your brand new HP/Dell/IBM/Sony/eMachines/etc with an AMD? Just because some system vendors sells machines built around either CPU, doesn't really make the CPU interchangeable between Intel and AMD offerings. Regarding video cards, there are really only two chip makers in the arena for gaming anyway: Ati and nVidia. Both of them supply Mac OS drivers, so you're not really losing choice of manufacturer there either.
    • Fentekreel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4If you think about it though gaming hardware has gone compleately out of control. Do we really need such "advanced" hardware every 3 weeks/months? Look at fear evan on a dual sli the scripting for single player brought many "gameing systems" to their knees. I remember seeing 3d landscapes back in the day in dos....remember that text only prompt thing.... anyways....I still wonder if developers are taking any time to make quality well running code for their games....look at actavision claiming the xbox360 will not be able to play their new master piece COD....i would hope with that much power dedicated to just playing games that they will be able to make something work...that aside...with having the hardware pretty much contolled by apple it would make gaming easier for everyone to be playing on the same page....the graphic cards in the new intels are pretty nice they may not be on the op of the line...but apple makes good effort to make sure everything works better than just good....they make effort to have the hardware actually stable....my personal experience with the apple hardware is very little to do with it malfunctioning with the os and what uses it through it but only when it malfunctions. I'm not saying that never happens just that i have not seen an issue with it.... Though i would say the biggest issue for development would be making a game that works on a multitude of hardware that could or could not be there....i remember that being the issue when "monster3d" was still about and kicking....
      though in the end cross compatible gaming would be ideal ... though games go where the money is... weather it be from the OS developer themselves or actually it comes down to the consumer....the more the merrier at the right price...
    • lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1mrsunshine, it is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. I made my brother a computer a year and half ago and it still runs every game great. I expect it to for a year and half from now too. Maybe not in full quality, if you absolutely need to do that, then your computer has a much shorter shelf life. But still not as bad as you are saying, 1-2 years at the least.

      good point fangorious, but the fact remains that you could never buy a mac part by part like you could a PC. Maybe you could upgrade an existing mac but the initial purchase is all together (like dell or hp). You have no choice about the brands that go in, except for maybe video card.
    • r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"And gaming for the ipod? I don't think that will ever be described as "serious gaming.""

      Who said it was "serious gaming"?

      It's gaming, nonetheless, and as a result would require a GAME developer, would it not?
  • randomvictim, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15Serious gamers update their hardware at least every 6 months. I don't see apple pulling this off.
    • D3koy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Yeah, they only way apple could pull it off is if they became like every other computer manufacturer out there...Once that happens they lose because they'd be too far behind. Not seeing apple doing games anytime soon, at least not regularly..maybe one or two every 3 years...
    • JeffH, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Exactly. If they don't stop locking down their hardware, they have no chance in the gaming industry. Upgrading from a PC users standpoint is buying a new graphics card, installing new RAM, getting a new CPU or MOBO, etc. Upgrading a Mac is throwing your old one on ebay and hoping you can get half what you paid for it to go towards a new one.
    • jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Those of us who are able to afford it also upgrade our machines every year. We may not be pro gamers but we appreciate the boos to our productivity!
  • efexor21, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1i really think apple will continue to focus on the other parts of their business, it won't be gaming that will make the media stock skyrocket this year http://www.trendio.com/word.php?wordid=1371&language=en but ipod phones or something..
  • kevin45, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Apple can't have a game console because you can't release a 'new' version of a game console every 2-3 months a la iPod.
    • MrSunshine, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1Nintendo does that.
    • kevin45, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1With? Handhelds maybe, worst offender being the Game Boy but it was the best selling handheld of all time and still sells to this day. There were two versions of the original NES. The rest of the consoles had one series.
    • r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Apple can't have a game console because you can't release a 'new' version of a game console every 2-3 months a la iPod."

      Last time I checked no console manufacturer releases a new version within that timeframe. Consoles are expected to have a shelf life of around 3 years, which is close to the shelf life of a Mac (read as lass than a Mac).
    • computerdude33, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2There were also two versions of the SNES.
  • treelovinhippie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2If they're planning on developing games, I would think they would be for something like the Wii and nothing else. I just can't see Apple applying their simple design and UI onto a high-end FPS or RPG.
    • kevin45, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Supposing they do, then what? They have an OS platform that developers now barely make a compatible version of their game for. What will make them want to develop for Apple when they have 3 major engrained brands/consoles to cross develop for already?
  • krolls, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9It would be silly to try to sell Macs to gamers, thats like trying to sell Windows to Mac Fan boys
    • Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Huh? I don't see the logical flow from giving Mac users games and giving them windows? One has nothign to do with the other. There are already games that exist on Mac OS
    • Barlo_Mung, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Even though it is fun, Photoshop doesn't count.
    • KyleMistry, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"Even though it is fun, Photoshop doesn't count."

      Hardcore Mac gamers set the filters to difficult mode.

      :D
    • nufoto, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Selling games to Mac users Nah! can't happen....... http://www.apple.com/games ........ http://www.macgamesandmore.com
  • D3koy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I don't care about anything but Valve/Steam

    You get your hands on that and my next computer will be a Mac G(whatever number they're on)
    • TemplarCrosland, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I second that notion
    • zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5yeah, CS alone will get some customers.
    • Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think the PowerPC chips stopped at Mac G5. They use intel chips now...
    • Barlo_Mung, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Anyone else find it ironic that xbox 360 uses PowerPC?
    • BlackKnight6, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4PowerPC is IBM, not a Mac thing. The PS3 and Wii all have IBM CPU's.
  • Miniman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5No.
  • Sundownvf111, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5seriously.... without major developers going Mac, the scenario described is highly unlikely....

    but like randomvictim said...

    "Serious gamers update their hardware at least every 6 months"
  • systemghost, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Uh..... No.
  • nreynolds, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Didn't we all know that this was for the iPod games? Unless this is a new job posting, though it could be for another of the same job.
  • NewChar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Wow, this was one of the worst articles I've read on Digg. It sounds like some high school kid talking about what types of games he likes to play.
  • terasurfer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I stopped reading the article when I hit:

    "Steve Jobs had them make it hard to develop games on the Mac because he wanted it to be taken seriously..."
    • kevin45, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4taken so seriously hes willing to cook the books.
    • Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Why would it be hard to develop games on a Mac? Because Windows hasn't made a Mac version of DirectX?
      OpenGL works the same on Mac, Linux and Windows...
    • Barlo_Mung, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1He made it hard only in the sense that he kept the market share low. It takes a lot of money to make a game for a particular platform. Most people don't see a business case for big name games on the Mac. The upside is they have lots of fun, quirky indie games.
    • grumpyrain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Steve Jobs ** had them ** make it hard." (emphasis mine)
      "He made it hard only in the sense that he kept the market share low."

      Why would he want to keep the market share low? That argument does not make sense. The article simply makes a ridiculous statement, dont bother defending it.

      Like them or not, MS invested big time in DirectX and partnered up with other companies like Ensemble and Bungie to make some amazing games. They also invested in XBOX which makes them synonimous with gaming. MS are a long way ahead here (especially looking at some DX10 stuff), just as Apple are a long way ahead with iPod. If they are going to catch up ground in gaming, it will be through innovation not through amazing graphics. Wii is probably their best hope here, it proves that gaming is not purely about the graphics.
    • BlackKnight6, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2There are several reasons a developer doesn't work on Mac games as nearly as much as PC games. First off it isn't supported by the OS as much as Windows, and by that, I mean DX, which handles much more than just graphics, like sound and input, etc.

      Second is that the gaming market for Mac users is tiny compared to the PC, I doubt there are devs that would want to try to develop that market on their own.

      Another reason is the most game developers are just plain used to/skilled at developing on PCs and the driver support for the different cards is much better. Lots of game devs like to push the envelope when it comes to games and to do so you need the hardware.

      Mac is catching up but it is still more expensive, less support by the OS (lacking an all around tool like DX), VERY limited hardware support (intel and AMD, when it comes to gamers, is split almost 50/50 right now, check the Valve hardware survey, one of the largest surveys on the topic) and low install base among even average gamers. I can't see Macs becoming a good alternative to gaming, as it comes down to performance/money ratio and Macs lose there.
    • r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Because Windows hasn't made a Mac version of DirectX?"

      DirectX is a lot of APIs bundled into one big API which provides a lot of the gaming functionality.

      On the Mac you have OpenGL, CoreAudio, CoreVideo, CoreImage, CoreAnimation and some input-device one that I forget the name of which are similar to DirectX, just separated. You have to do the same amount of crap to get the audo into CoreAudio as you do for DirectSound, about the same amount of work to get stuff into OpenGL or Direct3D, and there is nothing even remotely like CoreImage, CoreVideo or CoreAnimation in DirectX.

      The work is the same you'd just have to do it twice, once the DirectX way and then the Core... way.
  • itseffinkasey, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1They will probably make some gaming counsel... think about it, with Sony out of the picture why wouldn't they?
    • D3koy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Because Microsoft and Nintendo would kick their product off the map within 24 hours...
  • pleaseluggage, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Look at all of the advertising this guy's blog gets. Without a link or evidence that this is something more than a guy to make more games for the iPod, I call shenanigans.

    SHENANIGANS!



    • zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1That's the reason I read the comment because I click on artical, on thing like this.
  • zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1Apple right now are too expensive to upgrade for games.

    Even my PC which I built with parts from New Egg Athlon64 3200+, 2 gig Dual Ch, 6600GT AGP8x etc, used to run game maxxed out now its time to upgrade! becuase I can't the fps on RB6 Vegas and i have to reduce setting just to play other newer games. I can probably stay on top for little longer by getting more ram and better card right now if I choose not to upgrade to PCIexpress. That's means, if game get too advanced for Mac's, Mac Gamer must buy whole new system because as of right now mac is CLOSED!

    I just gotta find somebody to buy this PC so I could go on shopping spree on new egg!
    • MaxPayne3476, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4What the ***** did you just say?
    • r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"That's means, if game get too advanced for Mac's, Mac Gamer must buy whole new system because as of right now mac is CLOSED!"

      Isn't this exactly what you just said you are having to do with your PC now?
  • uncle_jesse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think their "game" is more in the portable market. I imagine this position is for someone to develop games for the ipod and the new ipod phone. I imagine they would love to see people using their ipods similar to a PSP or a DS Lite. I don't think any cell phone manufacturer has successfully done this, nor has any portable game device turned successfully added cell phone/wireless networking support, other than short-distance gaming. Now, don't get me wrong - I think eventually they will get into competing with XBox - they have to if they're trying to get into your living room (the only reason I won't switch to the iTV is because I already has an Xbox that also does the same thing). I just think the way they'll slowly move into that market is with their strength - the iPod, which has a much larger audience right now.
  • zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Let get this platform war going on digg!!
  • flipmeat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The job openings are, imho, purely for iPod games - which, over the next few years, could become a significant size platform for casual gaming. If there is an iPhone, even more so. Note that so far, there are no third party iPod game developers. No open API. This means Apple smells money, and wants the revenue for itself.

    More important, the consumer electronics industry has bungled the launch of HD - completely. Apple made the iPod when it was clear that they could completely outclass every other MP3 player out there. There is now a similar opportunity for HD, home theater, and online movie delivery... anyone who has set up HD at home knows what I'm talking about. Apple can make HD 'just work', and clean up.

  • rtini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Serious gaming is already here for Apple. Using Boot Camp, boot into Windows and do all the "serious" gaming you want. It's what Windows is for!
    • oscar7g, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Wizardry anyone? Anyone?
    • MaxPayne3476, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3My question, with bootcamp, is your MAC basically a PC. Are all the drivers there and can I play pretty much any Windows game. If this is the case, hello brand new Macbook Pro :)
    • Barlo_Mung, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Macs still are not good gaming platforms even with boot camp because of lack of hardware support. To be serious about gaming it's all about having the latest (or as close as you can afford) video card. Do the Intel macs support pci-e? What about SLI?
    • rtini, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"My question, with bootcamp, is your MAC basically a PC. Are all the drivers there and can I play pretty much any Windows game. If this is the case, hello brand new Macbook Pro"

      Yes, the drivers are there, it's exactly like having a Windows laptop. We'll even get 64bit Vista support when Boot Camp is final in Leopard later this year. You can even overclock your ATI graphics in software. The 2.33Ghz Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro with ATI x1600 graphics is as good of a 15" gaming laptop as you can get.
    • rtini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Macs still are not good gaming platforms even with boot camp because of lack of hardware support. To be serious about gaming it's all about having the latest (or as close as you can afford) video card. Do the Intel macs support pci-e? What about SLI?"

      There is no 8800 card out yet for Mac, NVidia is working on it. The best available gaming card for Mac Pros is currently the ATI x1900XT 512MB. The Mac Pro has PCI-e, it supports up to 4 graphics cards for a total of 8 monitors.
  • max4077, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Bring back the Apple ][ as a game console.
    • zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'd remember playing Frogger on it.. I don't think PC even had frogger at that time.
  • cavsct94, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5I for one am exactly the sort of person that a few people here say doesn't exist: a PC gamer who has switched to Mac and now uses a Mac for gaming. I've built my own PCs for years and I'm mighty happy with Mac OS X and with my Mac Pro and X1900. I definitely think there is a market for a top of the line graphics card for a Mac. Stick a 8800 or similar card in and let it do OpenGL in OS X and DirectX 10 in boot camp. Better yet, develop more games for OS X. I was overjoyed when I remembered that my WoW was both Windows and Mac. It runs like a dream in OS X.

    One thing else: the premier AM2 system I built just months ago for gaming for $2500 went for peanuts when I parted it out and sold it. At least Macs hold their value better.
  • Bardak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3the hurdle that mac needs to get over in gaming is direct x. they need to convince deveopers to use open gl so that it is simple for them to make a port to the mac or Linux for that matter.
    • Xilon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yay! Apple makes OpenGL big so I can play games under Linux ^_^ Win - Win - Lose (Windows) situation!
  • LordSkywalker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Of course it is! Didn't you guys hear about Photoshop CS3?
  • vhold, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If Apple manages to capture new top games, my next computer would definitely be a Mac. They are closer then ever now. Their architecture is currently closer to Wintel then it's ever been before.

    For nearly two decades Mac fans have repeated that they aren't interested in gaming or that the games they have are somehow good enough, but I just see it as a self delusion to stave off buyer's remorse. (Yea, that's a overly hyperbolic statement, sorry, but I think it has some truth)

    Honestly though, I just don't see it happening. Microsoft is really far ahead of the technology curve in terms of game development support and their new branding of "Games for Windows" shows they are serious about holding on to this edge. Apple can't compete half assedly and draw in gamers.

    I think the one thing that makes the gamer market so desirable is that they are buying new hardware and software at a rate faster then anyone else. This would be awesome for Apple in particular since they play both sides of that fence. The fact they've just totally dropped the ball on it for years is lamentable.

    Owning a mac but buying windows XP to dual boot and play games really isn't cutting into Microsoft's advantage that much, it just reinforces it really.
  • danakin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Don't bother reading the article, it's fluff and has no real content of interest.
    • f0dder, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2doesn't that apply to 90% of the apple articles showing up on the front page of digg?
  • iMoth, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0i
  • consonance, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5A platform with 5% of the market share is a bad risk for game developers to take when they could easily take the other 95%. Even if Apple supports the high-end hardware gamers use, game developers won't go for it.
    • ziadoz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I don't know why people are digging down this guy, hes entirely right. Game developers aren't in it for the pure love of making games, they're in it to make profit. Theres no profit when your target audience is just a few percent of computer users, and it certainly makes no financial sense to develop 3 different versions of your game for all the different platforms (even though some exceptional developers like Epic Games do this).

      The fact that Apple lock people into their hardware model is a big turn off for gamers too. Hardcore gamers are always changing components of their system. If thats your thing the only sane choice is a PC running Windows XP or Windows Vista. Apple are always hinting in their advertisements that Mac's don't crash, but once they give up on the hardware lock in monopoly they are operating it will be interesting to see if this still holds true.

      Overall I think the fan boys are gonna have to give over when they suggest Mac's are a good gaming platform choice. I think hell will probably freeze over first though.
    • r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Theres no profit when your target audience is just a few percent of computer users"

      Go tell that to Aspyr, although their coding leaves a bit to be desired judging by the speed of Civ4 on my G5 iMac.
  • lysdexia, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Serious gaming - now there's a ***** oxymoron.
  • cliner, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1@itseffinkasey

    Sony out of the picture?! That is the dumbest most preconceived ***** ever. Sony is still very much in the picture, once the hype on the Wii dies out and its innovation gets ordinary this whole Nintendo fad will be coming to an end. PS3 has one hell of a lineup for 2007, think of 360, at launch there was hardly anything worth playing. To be honest I was super pumped to get my hands on a Wii, and yea it was great for the first 60+ hours. Now I would rather play my 360 again, after franchises like MGS, GTA, and Final Fantasy land on the PS3 things are gonna change.
    • quaunaut, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Actually, most of the games that were exclusive to PS3 are XBox 360 now too, just because of the PS3's failures along with publishers not believing there will be enough PS3s in the field. Overall, while Sony isn't out of the picture, the PS3 has fallen quite a bit. The only platform it seems to be above is Sony's own PSP. With the DS kicking the crap out of all of them, 360 stealing most of PS3's "exclusives", and the Wii becoming a hit with the nongamer(which in the end, will net it millions more buyers, much like the NES or SNES over their competitors- good games/innovation, as opposed to graphical prowess), Sony has all but failed.
  • Jumangi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Maybe Jobs can get Carmack to show off his next game engine like he did with DOOM 3 years ago so he can show what a cool gaming platform the Mac is. :)
  • bdub92, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11 word: NO
  • ryanwarnersteel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Damn I thought this was going to be a story on Apple putting better graphics cards in their notebooks so that we could duel-boot windows to play games in their next generation.
    • rtini, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Apple already did that. There is no better graphics option for 1" thick laptops than the ATI x1600. Look into it.
    • Slovenian6474, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A x1600 in a new computer wouldn't satisfy me. A x1600 is a decent card, but i'd rather have something a little more powerful if it were my only system to game on.
    • rtini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"A x1600 is a decent card, but i'd rather have something a little more powerful if it were my only system to game on."

      I hear you... but to get someting much better than an x1600 you need to get a 17" laptop that's much thicker and heavier than anything Apple makes. The NVidia Gefore Go 7950GTX is the best laptop graphics available right now, but it will cost you about $3,500 for a big fat 17" "laptop" with one of them. Forget about battery life, too.

      Why use a laptop at all if it's bulky, hot, loud (fans) and has poor battery life? How often do you play games on a laptop? Why not just play games at home on a console or workstation computer? Laptops are only so good at gaming before they become useless as laptops. Apple is stubborn about not crossing that line; they will only make a pro laptop as good as they can within a 1" thick case, low weight and having good battery life.
    • Slovenian6474, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The next step up from there is directly up to the MacPro starting for $2500 considering Apple's "desktops" are made primarily with laptop parts (with the exception of the MacPro). The $2000 Imac does have an upgrade to a 7600 GT which isn't bad except for the start price of $2000 just to get a $100 video card.
  • Waredgo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Has anyone here played Oblivion on a Mac Pro? Just curious to see what the results were. Would like to get a Mac Prom but it's gotta be able to play wintel games.
    • rtini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The Mac Pro runs Wintel games great, just order it with the ATI x1900XT 512MB card for the extra $250. Better yet, wait a few months and get it with an NVidia 8800 card instead.
  • stockjones, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0A little late to the "game", but its better than nothing. Im not sure how theyll pull off the upgrades aspect that so many PC gamers enjoy. Its like souping up and customizing your car. MAC's are pretty closed of to upgrades, and building your own MAC? Yeah sure when hell freezes over.
  • fatnutz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1This article along with these commentors made me laugh so hard, I nearly pissed my pants.
  • br208, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Disclaimer / Disclosure: I am not a gamer (Frogger on an Apple][ plus is probably the last I played) and some of you would call me a Mac Fanboy (I'm not but...) A few things I would like to understand:

    1. What percent of Windows market share do you attribute to "serious" gamers?
    2. Why game on a PC rather than on a console?



    • thedraft, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21. I'm sure it's small, less than 25%, maybe even less than 10%, but that's still millions and millions of people.
      2. *****, why game on anything? Because the PC has games I want to play, and because the PC is the best platform for certain genres I enjoy.
    • MeatBiProduct, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If you want to see how many PC gamers there are just look at the PC games that sell millions of copies. I think sales speak louder than Apple 2 guestamations. Go to your local retailer (best buy, compusa, etc.) - you should notice the 8 rows of games and the 1 row of PC software.

      Why game on a PC rather than a console:
      1. Control
      2. Graphics / Upgradeable hardware (your hardware is generally your edge over the competition, higher framerate/longer draw distance = easier wins)
      3. Some games are best played on a PC (IE RTS, FPS, MMO etc.)
      4. Communities outside the game.
  • misfit410, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Never going to happen, they charge premium gaming system prices for budget system parts.. I'd hate to see what a gaming system from them would run.. $5000?
  • amzran, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The Playstation unit will falter and Sony will be forced to spin it off and Apple will come along and take it off their hands.
  • fallenone05, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How would you play the games without the comfort of the right click button?
  • SoxFanNH, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1In a word... NO
  • nobogeys217, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1If apple does eventually try to create a console, it would probably have the best graphics, but cost out the ass.

    I do want to see some good new games for OSX though
  • majglow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I got 3 macs and a Wii... I'm happy!

    Although, I don't know what I'll do when Spore comes out :'(
  •  

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