digg

Join DiggAbout

The Digg Crew wants to hear your thoughts!
Please take our short survey about Digg and potential feature ideas.

Full text of Microsoft exec's "I'd buy a Mac" e-mail

tuaw.com — Remember that incident where a Microsoft Executive said that if he didn't work for Microsoft that he'd personally buy a Mac? Today's Seattle Pi has uncovered the full text of that e-mail. You can download a copy of the PDF.

show profanity settings
expand all
  • soupy1406, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13I would like to see the video Jim refers to in the document
  • Alfdog, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3Isn't this guy calling it quits now that Vista is finished? Sounds like some good farewell advice.
    • Philoushka, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18Not a farewell. It was from 2004, and lit a fire under Microsoft's ass. Thus, they scrapped lots from Longhorn. The result is Vista in its current form.
  • Maku, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6Not surprising.
  • popularme, on 10/12/2007, -26/+4please stop posting fake news and articles on digg.

    digg has become more and more like fox news, very fair and balance. :/
  • RobM, on 10/12/2007, -10/+20I wonder what "LH" is that referenced near the end.
    • astrosmash, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24Longhorn
    • maymats, on 10/12/2007, -11/+0long horn
    • BigT4187, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1My guess is "LongHorn" .........
    • astrosmash, on 10/12/2007, -12/+2LoNgHoRn
    • ZeroNeo, on 10/12/2007, -15/+6@RobM

      You are probably new here, for people to get it you MUST write "/sarcasm" at the end.
    • mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7He was saying that Longhorn is inefficient and hogs system resources.
    • ogmandino, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11why did people digg RobM's question down? Then the same people digg up the answer. It was a valid question.
    • tomi, on 10/12/2007, -12/+1ogmandino - If you know anything about Vista, or read digg properly like you should, you should know that Longhorn was Vista's codename that everyone loved better than the name 'Vista', and LH = Longhorn.
    • dmsteg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Tomi... dude... a little harsh don't you think?
      Most users of Digg don't come for the acronym lessons, we come for tech stories and some sense of community.
      Your comment my friend defeats the latter of the two.
    • thekronz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Was THAT MANY answers nessacary?

      By the way, Microsoft is really getting their asses handed to them.
  • KyotoWolf, on 10/12/2007, -18/+8Apple Fanboys Rejoice!
    • Ambicar, on 10/12/2007, -22/+9Sure, rejoice! I'd rejoice and buy a Mac too if they backdated $20 Million in Stock Options for me, faked a non-existant Board Meeting for me, fired the people who wrote up the paperwork to get all that done, restated earnings to cover for it then hired the "Inventor of the Internet" to say, "It's all good." BTW - Why isn't the iPhone 3G?

      Also, you may like a Mac and all, but don't complain about the cost of MS stuff when a Mac sets you back much more than a comparable Windows Box (including Hardware) and the 2G iPhone costs $500. For a phone that can only download from a "Proprietary DRM Laced Media Source".

      Can you say hypocrites?

      Digg me down now, but Jobs is gonna be looking for a Job
    • alex189a, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2So much anger over something that has no impact on your life. Has someone already coined the term hateboy yet?
    • Ambicar, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1Wrong - it has a BIG impact on my life. I am an Apple Shareholder. The Backdating, resultant firings that have already occured and will occur and the SEC investigation will quite likely have a negative impact on my investment. I for one am upset that the Board of Directors of this company would intentionally engage in Securities fraud. Even Mr. Gore acknowledged that the CEO was "knowledgeable" of the backdating Before it occured. This AM several major Market Reporting outlets were indicating that the downturn in Apple Stock price could be 14% - 20% as a result. THAT sir - has an effect on me.
    • KyotoWolf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Ambicar has bad vibes

    • Ambicar, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4And what's the Big deal over an email anyway? Heck Apple spent time and money creating a product that was designed specifically to allow Windows to Boot on a Mac. That says a bunch more than an email. And as a competitor you would be silly NOT to keep an eye on what your competition is doing. Just try competeting in any industry at all with your eyes closed as to what the other guys are doing and see how long you would stay in business.

      No bad vibes tho. I sold my stock today before the rampant orgasm over the iPhone gives way to more reasonable common sense.
    • shm1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@ambicar

      AAPL is at an alltime high *after* the iphone announcement. Why don't you cash out if you're not convinced in AAPL and Jobs?
    • pero69, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Ambicar
      "Wrong - it has a BIG impact on my life. I am an Apple Shareholder. The Backdating, resultant firings that have already occured and will occur and the SEC investigation will quite likely have a negative impact on my investment."

      I say the stock prices that have tripled in 2 years is a pretty good impact...

      "Heck Apple spent time and money creating a product that was designed specifically to allow Windows to Boot on a Mac."
      Did they? Or did they just repackage the hacked version that had cropped up online a few days before Apple came out with it? :)
  • MikeTRose, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26Oh, it's so much worse than we thought... he didn't just hate Longhorn, he hated the Microsoft Way!
    • mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Well.. to be fair it seemed like he was saying that he didn't believe their current route was the "Microsoft way". I think he wanted to redefine what it meant to produce a MS product. It sounds like they were getting lazy.
  • astrosmash, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17I agree with him.
  • Sethwm2, on 10/12/2007, -16/+7Dude this guy sounds really cool. I would like to see him work with Steve Jobs. I think that this guy is working for the wrong company. Microsoft could never be a nice as Apple. There is just something about Microsoft that just makes me think, Old, Bloated, Slow, Unsecured, Money pig, Resource hog, wanna be Apple. Microsoft wants to be as cool as Apple. As seen in the creation of the Zune. Micro$oft is like a person bringing there whole desktop setup to a coffee shop with wires and all, nerdy, geeky bloated, and then Apple next to them is a simple, refined, fast, and far from normal. Mac people have a Mac for a reason there is something encoded in a Mac users brain. Mac users are... People know what I am talking about, Microsoft tries to hard. Apple just makes things look easy and they make things easy to do in the process. I am going to get bashed down as a Apple fan boy, and I am but. I do not bash Windows anymore I can't because as long as people are happy with what they have that is all I want to know
    • kevxross, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I feel stupider having read that. Were you attempting to make a point with all that?
    • Rikkochet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4He was helping me find out if I'll still be able to edit this comment if I block him before my edit timer is up...
  • wowbagger, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18I love it.
    Longhorn is a pig. Nice, even MS execs know this.
  • astrosmash, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15This is why Vista looks and acts so much like OS X, and why the Zune is a copy of the iPod/iTunes ecosystem.
    • mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Haha, good point. I guess Allchin's message had a big impact.
  • drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5It would be nice if people linked the original article. Instead we get blog spam that once again talks about the article that actually has the new information...

    Some pigs never learn
  • macfanboi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3He said he WOULD buy a Mac. Sounds like his heart was still with Microsoft and he was trying to Gates and Ballmer to wake up.
    • pero69, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2or he already HAD purchased one, but was still interested in his job at the moment. hehe :)
  • sigmaman2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+28Kudos to Allchin for being honest, and expressing himself.

    Kudos to Apple, for creating a line of products that garner praise even from their competitors

    And...

    Kudos to Microsoft for building a corporate atmosphere where this kind of open, frank, honest self-exploration is allowed to be voiced.
    • rjcarr, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Is it? He says he would buy a mac if ... If they were so open he could buy whatever he wanted. Frankly, I don't see the problem now, you can have a "mac" but not have a scrap of OSX on it. And remember Ballmer not letting his kids have ipods? Please, open and frank are not two words to describe microsoft.
  • soxos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8In case you don't know, this isn't text from some random Microsoftie. This email is (allegedly) from Jim Allchin, the successor to Bill Gates. I've thought Allchin was too outspoken to get to hold the reins, but it looks like he will start taking over in the coming years. However, I think he's blinded to the fact that Microsoft has bloated itself. There is too much bureaucracy inside MS that needs to be eradicated if they hope to compete with the smaller competitors. Inertia will prevent MS from changing its course any time soon.
    • zybch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Alchin the successor to gates??
      Have you been smoking something containing nail varnish?
      Alchin has repeatedly stated that he will leave after vista ships!!
  • firemillen2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7This is a good lesson on why you should never use email to discuss confidential material/opinions. It's funny to see "don't forward" text on the top of the email and then have it leaked to the entire world.

    imagine this moron walking around the redmond campus.

    "Hey Jim, So I heard you're a big Apple fan."
    "Well, I was just ranting."
    "Well thanks for keeping moral high on the team, *****."
  • IphtashuFitz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Here's to hoping that Ray Ozzie can do some good.
  • fastfood15, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Even though i dislike almost any microsoft product, this deeply saddens me. There is nothing like two companies in battle trying to innovate better and faster than the other. This sort of competetition benefits that whose most important, the consumer!

    So its sad to see one company totally dominating the innovation and creativity battle. I can't believe I'm saying this, but i wish Microsoft didn't suck so bad.
    • trylleklovn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3At least they apparently know this now.
      I hope that they open their eyes and realizes that you can't win the market just by forcing people to continue using their software.

      Although Apple isn't really a threat to all the current Computer owners (besides the cases where people go completely anti MS in frustration), GNU/Linux gains more market share. Either way Microsoft needs to spend more money on research teams rather than "just" software developers.. We (Consumers) don't want apologies and weird explanations, we just want a product that works, and works well. The consumer should be the most important part!
    • rubberpants, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"you can't win the market just by forcing people to continue using their software."

      All evidence is to the contrary. It's sad really.
    • Stirk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"you can't win the market just by forcing people to continue using their software."

      In backup of rubberpants's statement, I have two words:

      Microsoft Office
  • DickBreath, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4That Microsoft Exec was Jim Allchin. Everyone keeps focusing on the Mac remark he made. Everyone forgets about what he testified, under oath during the US vs. Microsoft antitrust trial.
    (here's hoping digg doesn't screw up links...)

    http://www.ttgnet.com/daynotes/2002/2002-21.html
    or tiny url: y98szk
    >

    http://www.krombie.net/news/2002/05/21/1663.php
    or tiny url: y2omap
    >
    • DickBreath, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7See below where I included quotes from what Jim Allchin said, but Digg screwed it up.

      First one...
      ....but the key issue here is that Microsoft appears to be admitting in sworn testimony that Windows itself is inherently insecure and cannot be fixed.....

      Second one...
      A senior Microsoft Corp. executive told a federal court last week that sharing information with competitors could damage national security and even threaten the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan. He later acknowledged that some Microsoft code was so flawed it could not be safely disclosed.
      ....
      Certainly, the fact that Windows has had and is likely to continue to have gaping security holes comes as no surprise to anyone, but the key issue here is that Microsoft appears to be admitting in sworn testimony that Windows itself is inherently insecure and cannot be fixed.
    • DickBreath, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I suppose, one more reply to my own post.

      Jim Allchin, this is the guy who is in charge of Vista development.

      If Windows source code it not only cannot be opened, but even "sharing information with competitors could damage national security and even threaten the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan."

      Maybe he didn't want to open the source because it infringes the rights of someone else's Eye Pee (intellectual property).

      Contrast with open source, where the openness enhances the security.
    • Markie1006, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Didn't he say that (under oath) just before they gave the Windows source code to the Chinese government?
  • deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Somehow I thought the added context would get him off the hook here but it actually makes it even worse. The "LH is a pig" quote is especially good. I use Vista RTM on my HTPC and even with 1GB ram, dual core 2.4ghz, it's slow. On top of that UAC makes my life a freaking nightmare. EVERYTHING takes half a dozen clicks now. I'm too worried about security problems to disable it though.
    • potterboy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2What are you talking about? Are you sure your running RTM, becuase I am runningRC1 (i know, need to upgrade) and it is REALLY Fast on my Amd 64 with 1 gig of ram and my x300. I have now upgraded to 2 gig and its even faster.
  • DickBreath, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Okay, Digg screwed up my previous post (above about Jim Allchin). Here are the quotes from those links...

    First one...
    ....but the key issue here is that Microsoft appears to be admitting in sworn testimony that Windows itself is inherently insecure and cannot be fixed.....

    Second one...
    A senior Microsoft Corp. executive told a federal court last week that sharing information with competitors could damage national security and even threaten the U.S. war effort in Afghanistan. He later acknowledged that some Microsoft code was so flawed it could not be safely disclosed.
    ....
    Certainly, the fact that Windows has had and is likely to continue to have gaping security holes comes as no surprise to anyone, but the key issue here is that Microsoft appears to be admitting in sworn testimony that Windows itself is inherently insecure and cannot be fixed.
  • CSFiend, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Isn't there a saying about never type anything you wouldn't want the entire world to see?

    Case in point...
  • jtherrien, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1You know, Jim Allchin responded to this email after it became public a LONG TIME AGO. The e-mail was sent in 2003, if I remember correctly, and because of the e-mail many parts of Longhorn was scrapped, forming the Vista we see today.
  • ozziek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3What so you can't live Mac and Microsoft? What is this fanboy ***** of people having to align themselves with one or the other? I use Windows and MS apps at work but have a Mac at home. I use a Macbook Pro with Parallels to get the best of both worlds - Mac hardware with Mac OSX for surfing and iTunes and Graphics and Movies and Windows XP for running Outlook etc.

    We can't have both?
  • derat, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3His name is Jim AllChin - Mwahahahahahaha, 2 funny
  • xkrwlng, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2whats a Mac?
  • Diggnified, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1 Anyone can create this PDF document. This is a fake.
  • kevinarth, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1If true, this is pretty cool. I checked out the video in the comments above. Awesome video.

    (It's this one if you're not sure what I'm talking about)
    http://a772.g.akamai.net/5/772/51/c41c2cb1737f38/1a1a1aaa2198c627970773d80669d84574a8d80d3cb12453c02589f25382e353c32f94c32c980167cc2b5d8dbdf1/iLife04_480.mov
  • lartones, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1what's so interesting about this anyways? has it never been heard of before that a person from company likes another companies product better? b-o-r-i-n-g
  • Darph.Bobo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5You know Gates has got to own a Mac anyhow.
    If not, it would be laughable irony that the richest man in the world can't own the best computer in the world.
    • VeganG, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2The best computer in the world is the one that you can build yourself to suit your personal needs, not what a company thinks you need and decides to charge.
    • BakedGoods, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@vegan

      Specific hardware is irrelevant to my personal needs, therefore a computer I can build myself isn't the best computer in the world now is it?
    • zues, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If he owns the best computer in the world it would actually be a macbookpro running linux (ubuntu most likely)
    • johnnn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@zues

      Yes! because GNOME/X11 is much better than Mac OS X !... or wait a minute...

      However: Linux vs Darwin... you might have something.
  • thekronz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Maybe someday people will argue this much over one of my emails.

    *sigh*
  • maninblac1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Honostly, i'd like to ask, how on earth is Jim Allchin qualified to evaluate any of the products his company produces. Even Bill Gates himself can not wrap his head around where the operating system he designed has gone.

    Honostly, you really think that 1 man can grasp the intracasies of a program designed by thousands of engineers. Windows is designed in sections, each of those sections has many many people who are responsible for its individual developement.

    I feel that he's talking more about the environment that windows is designed in, rather than windows itself. The structure of developement for windows is not conducive to bug testing. A single significant decision or optomization in the File Filter scheme for example requires nearly all teams to test their current designs against the change, to ensure that the change did not break their code (and if it did, then fix it) (and then ensure their fixed code didn't break others code) see how a single change can create a calamity?

    "LH is a pig", to develope, and because of that, it lost touch with its users, and with its developers.
    • ElectricSoup, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"... the operating system he [Bill Gates] designed ..."

      ROTFL. Sure he did.
  • Darph.Bobo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4 by VeganG 3 hours ago
    - 1 digg
    The best computer in the world is the one that you can build yourself to suit your personal needs, not what a company thinks you need and decides to charge.
    ==================================
    After you get that best computer in the world built, be sure to let us know when you release your first OS. I'm sure it'll be far superior to OS X.

    Until then I'll keep using the the best computer in the world, not what some moron thinks he can do better.
  • SoxFanNH, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1LMAO you people just find anything don't you....
  • rousehouse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It was Allchin who convinced Gates and Ballmer to start Longhorn over. Allchin was also the Microsoft exec who *led* the Windows Vista team. If this note is authentic, it was probably part of the case he made to make Windows Vista the operating system it is today, even though the product is very late to market.

    From a Wall Street Journal article in 2005:

    "Windows is broken and Microsoft has admitted it. In an unprecedented attempt to explain its Longhorn problems and how it abandoned its traditional way of working, the normally secretive software giant has given unparalleled access to The Wall Street Journal, even revealing how Vice President Jim Allchin, personally broke the bad news to Bill Gates.

    "Allchin is co-head of the Platform Products and Services Division. 'It's not going to work,' he told Gates in the chairman's office, the paper reports. '[Longhorn] is so complex its writers will never be able to make it run properly.' The reason: Microsoft engineers were building it just as they had always built software. Thousands of programmers each produced their own piece of computer code, to be stitched together into one sprawling program. But Longhorn/Vista was too complex: Microsoft needed to begin again, Allchin told Gates. Allchin's warning recognised a growing threat from Google, Apple Computer, makers of Linux and corporate buyers - the latter horrified about security problems. Allchin and a small team demanded a revolution in how Microsoft works."
  •  

    Login or register to add a comment

    Create a new account or login to join in the conversation on Digg. You'll also be able to Digg stories to help promote things you like.


© Digg Inc. 2008 — Content posted by Digg users is dedicated to the public domain.
DIGG, DIGG IT, DUGG, DIGG THIS, Digg graphics, logos, designs, page headers, button icons, scripts, and other service names are the trademarks of Digg Inc.