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- prisoner24601, on 10/11/2007, -8/+27@e2superman
"Great and when you don't have cell phone reception your applications are basically uninstalled and all data is unavailable. Yay."
It's absurd that Steve Jobs is actually trying to sell people on the idea that HTML/AJAX is somehow going to be an adequate solution for smartphone apps. The notion that any network is anywhere close to being reliable enough is just laughable, If "streaming" is such a great idea, why not ditch local mp3 storage and just stream audio from some iTunes account (of course I'm being sarcastic here people.) But the principle here is the same. No one wants to be 100% dependent on the network for any "Function X" that they are really going to rely on.
But above all, the thing that bothers me is the stunning insult that Apple thinks we don't know the only reason they are pushing this model is because Cingular is desperate to keep Skype of handsets (and other similar tariff-bypassing paradigms.) Steve Jobs must really think we are all complete idiots to not see through this. The nonsense that this is a "security" issue or somehow a "more elegant design" is just insulting. Cingular is protecting their pricing model and ensuring you use more minutes and more data, and that you can't shift traffic to WiFi and VoIP.
Apple. Think different.
iPhone. Think different, but just don't ask me to think too hard. I'm "dumber" than any "smartphone" on the market. - kevinmotel, on 10/11/2007, -2/+20digg interface: http://davidcann.com/iphone/
shopping list: http://onetrip.org/ - frankietears, on 10/11/2007, -3/+21Could there be some sort of Web AIM or GTalk equivalent in these web apps to make up for the lack of iChat?
Stupid question? - Alegoo92, on 10/11/2007, -7/+22It's really lame without a SDK. I actually only write web apps, but platform apps are much nicer/quicker/stabler. Apple really stuck it to their own developers this time.
- supermanred, on 10/11/2007, -5/+18Try an ipod for a week and compare it to your current portable mp3 player, and you will understand why people are hyped about owning an iphone. Or, try OS X for a few weeks as compared to windows, and you will understand. I cant wait to have an iphone in my pocket.
- ElbridgeGerry, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13@frankietears
There's always Meebo until that. - Sagags, on 10/11/2007, -3/+14and for those planing on really using it on the iphone go here in your iPhone browser
http://davidcann.com/digg/
the other url will point you to the page with the virtual iPhone, and you wont need that when you have the real thing - meatmcguffin, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12http://davidcann.com/digg/
If only Digg looked like this. In fact, it's really tempting to start using this instead of digg.com :) - robmclay, on 10/11/2007, -3/+13iPhone stories are my antidrug.
- ericmoritz, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10wow, the shopping list actually works on my blackjack with opera
- gann, on 10/11/2007, -4/+12Exactly. If you don't have an SDK, just say so. Don't make it sounds like you don't need one.
Don't get me wrong, I am a web app developer. I am happy to know that iPhone has Safari with full javascript/dom support, and I have no doubt there'll interesting (fancy?) web apps dedicated to iPhone. But web app and local native app are so different that the former simply cannot replace the latter. - Wailord, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9@fkr3
Because they're specifically tailored to the iPhone. There may be more web apps, but if it was developed _for_ the iPhone, then it'll be called an iPhone app. - cybermort, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8@frankietears
yes is is possible... http://www.meebo.com/ - affanjam, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9The Gtalk was already done by Google
Fluid so it should fit the iPhone browser
http://talkgadget.google.com/talkgadget/popout - ahirreddy, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8It still doesn't make up for the fact that the iPhone is still very much a closed platform. While this is still awesome in it's own way, an SDK would be much better, allowing developers more flexibility in their applications.
- deanjrobinson, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6I quite like the digg app.
I've been working on my own iPhone "app", its an interface for Twitter.
You can check out a proof of concept here:
http://dev.deanjrobinson.com/iphone/twitter.html - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+8It looks pretty good too!
- MikeOSX, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9A little creativity goes a long way.
- emerrill, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7Well, or, you know... cell service...
- timusca, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7Very cool... the new verison of Digg for iPhone looks easy to use and very functional. I can't wait to see what else comes down the pipeline!
- prisoner24601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4@noahhoward
"Great and when you don't have cell phone reception your applications are basically uninstalled and all data is unavailable. Yay."
You know that for certain?
You aren't seriously suggesting that a VoIP app like Skype is going to work in an HTML/AJAX implementation are you? The "you don't know for sure until you see the released product" mindset is all well and good in general, but let's be realistic here. There's a reason why Skype isn't an ActiveX control or a JavaScript that runs in your Internet Explorer, Safari or Mozilla browser on your desktop. Because it either won't work at all, or would (at best) be a really awful way to try to implement such an app.
The chorus of voices chanting "the emperor has no clothes" will not be silenced by "hopefully it will all work out OK somehow anyway and I really believe there's some way to get everything to work, but we just haven't seen it yet but Steve Jobs knows what he's doing to stop whining that the unit is sealed."
Without an SDK, this unit is crippled.
The SDK has been held back because Cingular is terrified their pricing model will be undermined.
It's that simple, and Apple's arguments that the lack of an SDK is somehow for our own good is insulting. - e2superman, on 10/11/2007, -10/+14Great and when you don't have cell phone reception your applications are basically uninstalled and all data is unavailable. Yay.
(examples: a lot of offices do not have good reception, some places at home, some highways, etc... you know where). - Sagags, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4@RRuser
nobody likes blog spam - PiGuy, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Then they could make the screen a few inches bigger, let it actually run 3rd party programs, and release an SDK for it.. and voila.. it's a laptop!
- heptahedron, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5I wonder when someone will make a hardware keyboard for the iPhone. It could even contain an extended battery (to help counterbalance the iPhone) for extended operations.
- acorp, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3This iPhone "API" thing is such a "the emperor has no clothes" situation. Basically THERE IS NO API... Jobs just sent the developers to create webapps! What a bad solution for what the developers were asking for.
- Onetrack, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3I'd like to see how facebook / mobile facebook looks on it
- adolfojp, on 10/11/2007, -6/+9@supermanred (#7176766)
"A full SDK would mean more security holes. Apple will pick and choose which full blown apps run on the iPhone."
You win the Apologetic Apple Fanboy of the Year award!
I wonder if you think the same about Mac or Windows SDKs. - noahhoward, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Yes... just like in the Keynote. Multi-touch is still a mouse essentially.
- meatmcguffin, on 10/11/2007, -5/+7"Nicer"
Not sure about that one. The digg app looks exactly like a native app and even, i assume, behaves in the same way as well. By looking at the app itself, I don't think many people would doubt the developer if he said he coded it on some secret iPhone SDK.
"Quicker"
Agreed. On the flip side, developing a web app is quicker to develop by quite a margin.
"Stabler"
Doubt it. I've seen poorly written apps crash smartphones and these apps simply can't interfere with the phone enough to fsck it up. The worse case scenario is that Safari crashes. Platform apps do feel a lot more solid and 'trustworthy' though and it's a pain there's no SDK. - noahhoward, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2"You aren't seriously suggesting that a VoIP app like Skype is going to work in an HTML/AJAX implementation are you? "
No, obviously not, but not every app you could concievably use needs to connect to the internet. When was the last time you needed to be connected to the internet to use Word for example?
"I think we can safely infer that that's how it's going to work-- he said that the apps will be hosted on Internet servers" He said you can distribute them using internet servers didn't he? All I'm saying is see how it works before you write it off. - mrchin, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I don't see why you can't have a Web app that resides on the phone. I can currently load a web page in Safari from a file on my desktop. Either a flash file, picture or full html page with links, and code. So why doesn't anyone realize that you may be able to download such a web app from a publisher to a driectory on your iPhone's memory and then access it. Via something such as local: or file://
- peterinjapan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Question for anyone who could answer, why can't an app be written locally, e.g. to be stored on the phone and executed from within the phone? I'd love to see a "local" version of Google Docs, in fact I'd rather it be local and saved on my phone than on their servers, but whatever.
A bigger issue is what's up with Flash. - buzzert, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2It seems enthusiastic people are overlooking the fact that developers won't be able to take advantage of some of the best things of the iphone. Such as multi-touch, the accelerometer, etc.
Oh man, think of multi-touch. Think of the games! Say it isn't so! - theid0, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2https://www.gizmocall.com
Allows voice calls through a web browser, but it requires Flash. Close anyway...
I predict we will get Flash support in a software update to the iPhone before Leopard ships. - blackjack75, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2In my country the cheapest rate for data (EDGE, GPRS, UMTS) is about 2 dollars per megabyte...Either they change this or no one will be able to afford those web apps constantly polling the server.
- honestpen, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2No flash?! Is Adobe going to release an iPhone flash solution?
- p0intblank, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Very simple, yet very useful! I think developers can make some pretty useful apps using Web 2.0. The naysayers needs to think outside the box.
- understudy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1
I love Apple, but I won't buy an iPhone as long as it requires AT&T to be the carrier. As we've all learned, AT&T has ZERO RESPECT for the privacy of its (and others') users. I would encourage a boycott of the iPhone for this "singular" reason.
An email to Apple about this would be a good thing too.
_ - stockjones, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Time will be the judge on this one. But no SDK means once again the poolshare of apps available to something on an Apple product is limited. Hasn't anyone at Apple learned anything from past history?
- vsLAN, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1One bad thing I have found with http://davidcann.com/digg/ is there is no back, once you click on a category you cant use the browsers back button to go back... leads me to believe it probably wont work with the iPhone's Safari either.
And there should be a Front Page/ All section like on Digg itself. - zsears, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Well you won't be buying one for a long, long time then. I don't think an email will do any good either I mean they do have a deal with AT&T.
- topside, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3How long untill AJAX apps work on every other phone in the world and make the iPhone nothing special? I'd love to know if Opera Mobile can run javascript.
I can already pull this up on my SLVR using OperaMini. Provided javascript, etc doesn't work - but it may very well Opera Mobile, the higher end mobile browser for smartphones. Apple would completely dominate with the iPhone if they allow custom platform apps. With web apps, every phone can run iPhone apps! *If* Opera Mobile can't do javascript, as soon as it does, the iPhone will have nothing to differentiate itself other than sleek looks. - Blandyman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1If I could indeed use web apps, why would it still be a paperweight? It can still do something... right?
Maybe I'm looking too far into this...
or maybe he's using insults that were old 4 months ago... - EtherGnat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1No, we're going to be stuck with hardware keyboards because they're better than touchscreen keyboards. Touch typing is nearly impossible on a touchscreen because your fingers tend to drift with no tactile feedback. Maybe someday they'll invent something better, but that hasn't happened yet.
- thomas040, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1What about skype.... ? Would that be possible via web2.0?
- EtherGnat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@diggitizer
AJAX is a weak development platform compared to something like .net compact framework (and whatever Palm and Symbian use). Don't insult us by trying to compare the two. Furthermore, have you ever tried to use a touchscreen keyboard? They're pretty unsatisfying to use, regardless of the size of the keyboard. I can type 40wpm on my thumb board, plus I can operate my phone without looking at the screen. - EtherGnat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1"Cingular is desperate to keep Skype of handsets"
Skype already works on a number of Cingular handsets. I've been running Skype on my phone for nearly two years. - pixelate, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@ noahhoward, I think we can safely infer that that's how it's going to work-- he said that the apps will be hosted on Internet servers, "if upgrades or changes are made, just make the change on your server".
It definitely sounds like you will have to be on the network to use the Web applications, no matter what. It's a complete cop-out, any way you look at it. And for a device like the iPhone it's a shame... there would have been some amazing apps. - zdiggler, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Looks like XB360 Blades.
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