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- chriskeyes, on 11/12/2007, -40/+311So what makes me mad about comparisons of this nature is that we all know that the DOJ simply will not allow Microsoft to be competitive in many of these areas. IF Microsoft decided to bundle their best mail, calendar, app or if they took the time to develop and integrate an industry leading DVD making program, or if they decided to do this in any of the areas in which separate executables are necessary, there would be an immediate outcry from somebody about monopolies. I think that the OPERATING SYSTEMS, themselves, should be compared. A lot of this stuff doesn't really count as part of the operating system.
- MikeCerm, on 11/03/2007, -12/+224Yikes. They should have just titled this article, "Flamebait for Fanboys: Help Engadget Increase Page Views and Ad Revenue".
- sammykeyes, on 10/31/2007, -12/+126Activation:
Leopard : No
Vista : Yes
I think Leopard doesn't need an activation because you have to have a Mac to (legally) use it. Apple should already pretty much know if you're allowed to put that on your computer. It's a lock-in system, but the whole set-up is already controlled by Apple. Microsoft doesn't have that ability with varying PC makers out there. - quikboy, on 10/31/2007, -13/+104Is it really fair to have the iLife apps when comparing? Technically Leopard comes with iLife only when you buy a new computer with it, right?
iPhoto, iMovie, and iDVD are not included with Leopard ($79 iLife package). - MikeCerm, on 10/31/2007, -17/+97Seriously. Like how is a DVD player application part of an OS, and how sad is it that it accounts for 10 of Leopards 300 new features? http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html#dvdp ...
If you haven't read that whole list, you definitely should. It's completely laughable. I'm not saying that Leopard doesn't have new features, but claiming 300+ actually detracts from the 25 that are actually meaningful. - trippytree, on 10/29/2007, -5/+84Are you telling me #129 Empty Trash Button, "Empty the Trash from the Trash itself with the Empty Trash button." is not a real feature.
How dare you!? How dare you!? - quikboy, on 11/12/2007, -10/+88Being that Spotlight searches shared files and supports Boolean logic, we had to give this one to Apple
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Um, both parts of this line is incorrect.
Vista's search has always done shared files, network shares, etc. It is one of the nice features of Vista's search in that it can query over a network and not have to enumerate the files in the search, instead it lets the hosting computer return the indexed results.
Vista's Search not only has Boolean, but it also has advanced search constructs and nested search capabilities, including the use of pre-exiting search folders.
Here is a link to a more indepth guide to the syntax of the Vista Search abilities showing Boolean operations as well as other search features not even offered by Spotlight.
http://search.msn.com/docs/toolbar.aspx?t=MSNTbar_ ... - rootnik, on 10/29/2007, -5/+68Remote desktop (host).
They give Apple credit for VNC? I was using that with windows98... - memoid, on 10/29/2007, -1/+56This is the ***** comparison of anything I have ever seen.
- sammykeyes, on 11/07/2007, -14/+68Not counting the very subjective stuff like parental controls, and since you are talking about "out of the box." between incorrect info and including iLife in with leopard's features The score is closer to:
Leopard=40 Vista=48
Reasons, HD-Disk Playback. Leopard has no way to play HD-DVD or BluRay movies at all. Vista does.
Access: You forgot the voice control with Vista which works extremely well (dispite the beta video) and puts Vista's accessibility controls in a different class.
Vista's Search does, as has been pointed out, do what you claim it doesn't/
Time Machine isn't any better than Previous Versions and previous versions do not require a seperate drive or backup location to work.
You may like opera better than Safari or IE7, but IE7 is better than Safari.
RSS is in both the browser and accessible via the sidebar.
DVD authoring is only better if you buy iLife and it's not a part of the Leopard feature set. If you don't include office 2007 apps, you don't include iLife Apps.
Photo's: Same as above.
Video Editing: Same as above.
Blue Tooth support. Incorrect. It has already been pointed out. - ariez84, on 11/07/2007, -9/+58So they gave WMP11 vs. Quicktime a tie? A TIE?!?!?
WMP11 Trumps Quicktime. - inactive, on 11/07/2007, -43/+90I use both Leopard and Vista now and I have to say that Leopard is definitely looking like a half assed product from Apple. When Vista came out everyone criticised it for being unstable and insignificant, but I've found that many of the features (especially Windows Media Center) are quite nice.
Leopard's interface is a place where it really falls down. I don't know what they've done but it looks pretty shoddy now, as if they've waved a messy stick over it. There are also far too many programs that refuse to start or hang or even crash the entire system.
Contrast this with Vista where Microsoft has clearly put a lot of effort into making things as unified as possible without harming product development. All icons look like they're from the same land and menu and title bars are pretty to look at. Leopard's "traffic light" buttons need to go down on the saturation about 10 notches. Vista has also never ever crashed on me whereas Mac OS X (Tiger and Leopard) do it probably about once a week to me.
I like both, I prefer actually working in Mac OS X thanks to Expose mainly but Leopard really hasn't added anything worthwhile whatsoever. They can keep their stupid Time Machine and their horrifically flawed Stacks. I sort of regret buying this now, I haven't gained anything from the purchase. - dechah, on 11/07/2007, -7/+52iPhoto 08 and iMovie 08 do not come with Leopard, so it is unfair to rate Vista's movie maker and photo gallery apps capabilities lower than OS X. You get iLife 08 either as a separate software suite purchase, or with the purchase of a new Mac, not with a mere purchase of Leopard.
- Ramble, on 11/07/2007, -8/+50Vista search has been searching shared files and has supported boolean logic since November last year. Why do you think Leopard includes them?
- kris33, on 10/29/2007, -15/+53Something tells me that Bartboy919 has not tried Spotlight in Leopard..
- nubnub, on 11/07/2007, -26/+6298% of that crap. I could care less and secondly thats all right out of the box. There are plenty of apps for windows that would beat Apple.
- dolphumous, on 11/03/2007, -13/+47UT3
CoD4
Crysis
I'll stick with windows for the time being. - quikboy, on 11/07/2007, -8/+41I agree. I don't want to start a flame-war over media playing but...
I find WMP 11 to be the best out there right now. Why? Well, because:
1. Tons of online stores to choose from (iTunes has only iTunes store)
2. Support for tons of devices
3. Good codec support (and if you want more, Microsoft has an official developers site: http://wmplugins.com/ )
4. Easiest UI ever - in iTunes there's a ton of buttons and menus to choose from, but WMP 11's layout is much more cleaner and to the point to use
5. Watch DVD's - my favorite, or I use Media Center
6. Lots of skins and visualizations
7. Minimize to the Windows taskbar, and your can view a video in a very small screen that floats above the taskbar, while you can surf the web. All the controls and things works in the minimized level very well. Great for multi-tasking
8. Advanced audio controls - if you have it, take a look at "Show Playing" tab > Enhancements > Show enhancements. Now that's pretty cool!
9. Customizing formats/bitrates better
I could go on and on. But I definitely agree: WMP 11 is the best one out there right now. If they would just tweak it to enhance a few things some more... - lukasmack, on 10/29/2007, -5/+35It's a biased article its always its close but we will giveit to apple, also it doesnt give windows media player 11 over quicktime player.
- stoanhart, on 10/29/2007, -3/+33That's ok, I dugg it up for you :)
- inactive, on 10/29/2007, -7/+37their os makes it mandatory that you get all your hardware from apple, they forgot that one vista wins
- thecosmicpope, on 10/30/2007, -7/+35You just can't compare operating systems with a points system like this. It isn't fair, doesn't address the main issues and isn't thorough enough to be of any use. All this article will do is serve as flame-bait for an argument rather than anything constructive.
- jakem1, on 10/29/2007, -2/+30Well then Engadget should just add another row to their table like "Can be installed on any computer" or "Not limited to Apple hardware", etc.
- cpcouvillion, on 10/29/2007, -1/+27But, you can install Leopard on a Mac that predates iLife.
I don't think iLife should have been in there and I think they should have picked one version of Vista and stuck to it. When you start comparing things like Home Server and Apple TV you've stretched way beyond the OS. - chriskeyes, on 10/29/2007, -9/+34This chart is obviously biased toward Mac OS X... It's pretty plain to see that whoever came up with it is an OS X user and hasn't fully researched Vista.
I'm not saying that Vista is a wonderful OS, it sure has a fair share of problems right now, but this chart doesn't fairly represent what Vista can do.
One example is the Backup feature... Leopard has Time Machine, but it requires a separate hard drive partition for it to work. If you're running a notebook computer, that means you have to give up at least half of your hard drive if you want a full backup. Or use an external drive. And nobody wants to carry around an external drive so their data protection is always active.
Vista has the Restore Previous Version feature, which DOESN'T require a second partition/drive, and it is available with a right-click on any file. It only makes alternate copies of your files when they are overwritten or deleted, so it uses less drive space. Very easy. And it is fully automatic. No extra space wasted.
In my mind Vista's approach is much better... Less drive space used, no second partition required. Granted, it isn't a full backup, but Vista can do that too with the same limitations of Time Machine. Time Machine may be a good idea in principle, but its implementation sure is lacking. Apple could have easily made it work on the same partition, only using a minimum of disk space, but they didn't. Considering how most Mac users own iMacs or notebooks which don't have room for second drives, requiring a second partition is a pretty imposing limitation. The Previous Version feature in Vista is much more useful in real world settings. Should be a point for Vista and not against it.
Backwards compatibility should also be included. Vista can certainly run apps back to at least Windows 95. Leopard dropped Classic support, and because Apple likes to change at least some of their system APIs from one 10.x to the next, there are going to be backwards compatibility issues to deal with; an app written for pre-Tiger OS X will probably not run well on Leopard. Even Apple's own apps break and require updates with each OS X release.
The other thing that is unfair is that iLife is included as part of the comparison. iLife is a separate $79 product and it is not included with Leopard. It may be included with new Macs, but it isn't part of OS X. Since I bought my Mac last summer, it has iLife '06, but I didn't get iLife '08 with my Leopard upgrade. If I had chosen to format the hard drive and start fresh I wouldn't have iLife at all.
Just three examples that immediately come to mind... If I were to take the time I could certainly cite more. - Kanidia, on 10/29/2007, -3/+28Dugg you for digging him for digging him.
- grumpyrain, on 11/03/2007, -0/+24No, it doesn't use activation. It uses a dongle called a Mac.
- wheresaldo, on 11/07/2007, -9/+32This is so wrong in so many levels...it's clear Apple fanboy wrote this. Vista features are in red for NO reason.
- ariez84, on 10/28/2007, -4/+25Finally someone who is making some sense.
- biocandy, on 11/07/2007, -9/+30What? iChat wins over Messenger because of more protocols! What if all your friends use Messenger? I think Microsoft should have that one. That's actually a good application that removed ICQ from the scene back in the days.
- 35263526, on 11/07/2007, -6/+27Some of those comparisons are... well, dubious, at best. DX10 as an advantage over OpenGL (and, for some reason, Core Animation in a gaming context)? If they just said that Vista could play games and Leopard couldn't (don't kill me, fanboys, I know there are some Mac games but I still wouldn't run OS X on my gaming rig), then fine, but that didn't make much sense. Plus, some of the hardware stuff is silly; it's hardly reasonable to blame the operating system itself for Apple not manufacturing any tablet machines (given that the software is there and does work for third-party MacBook modifications) or auxilliary displays. I don't really want to take sides in this one given that I don't have any Leopard-capable Macs and my PCs all run XP or Linux, but this is a bit of a shoddy article.
- inactive, on 10/29/2007, -2/+21personally i get pissed off when i think i'm going see see at least an honest attempt at a comparision between two operating systems (i'm thinking of jumping ship from xp) only to find useless and obviously padded flamebait like this article was.
i expected better from engadget :( - inactive, on 10/29/2007, -6/+25i buried this on purpose
comparisons of random features picked out of the air is meaningless; i might be able to find 10 things on this list that i would actually take into consideration, while i listing at least 10 others that should've been included - chriskeyes, on 10/28/2007, -2/+21That's exactly what I've always said.
It's about time people realize that Microsoft products aren't always bad. - inactive, on 10/29/2007, -1/+19Except with the Vista solution, you don't pay $1.99 per episode. I think that is a clear winner.
- jakem1, on 10/28/2007, -4/+21Additionally, Vista does support boolean operators amongst hundreds of other constructs despite what Ryan Block says.
- SouthsideIrish, on 10/30/2007, -6/+23I wonder how Spotlight on Leopard could be any faster? You type a letter and it gives you your choices immediately. It could not be any faster.
- jayfehr, on 10/29/2007, -11/+27The difference here is the ability to replace the app. The DOJ complaint was that MS was tying the apps to the OS so they couldn't be removed. This occurred with both Media Player and Internet Explorer. Therefore 3rd party's couldn't write competing apps. This is where the monopoly came into effect.
Apple on the other hand designs very productive software and includes it with the OS. The difference here however, is that they allow you to remove their product and use a competitors.
The complaint wasn't bundled apps (that was the talking point) it was unfair business practices. - Ramble, on 11/07/2007, -1/+17They were seperate editions however, Vista has an updated Media Center as a feature in it's standard home OS.
- inactive, on 10/28/2007, -0/+16I agree completely. What kind of ***** comparison would give Windows a win in one category saying it's more powerful, then giving it a loss in another category because it's slightly harder to use (while still mentioning it's more powerful).
It contradicts itself. - jakem1, on 11/07/2007, -2/+18WMP11 also has watched folders which are sadly lacking in iTunes.
- ghostfish, on 10/29/2007, -22/+37Stop posting major blog links to digg, I can check them myself.
- monospaced, on 10/29/2007, -9/+24Totally. At first I thought it was fair, then realized it's full of extra Leopard comparisons instead of actual operating systems alone, and even as a Mac fan I'm disgusted. Then I realized it did the same with Vista. And to say the Mac doesn't have a "presentation" mode isn't fair. It's ideal for it, in fact. Most of the time 3rd party apps can make up the difference. But, take out a few of these features, and the Mac still kinda wins.
- daizaru, on 10/28/2007, -1/+16As much as I would like to see Leopard as the leader of the pack... I have to agree.
- qbyte, on 10/28/2007, -1/+16No kidding! I've been using ultravnc (http://www.uvnc.com) with a proggie called VNCScan (http://www.vncscan.com) on our LAN for about 5 years, now. It's just one of those standard open source apps that Apple is rebranding.
- Naga10, on 10/29/2007, -8/+23I buried this by accident. =(
- halfgook, on 11/07/2007, -1/+1550 cent vs an african country?
- Ramble, on 11/07/2007, -4/+18WMP 11 has amazing library support, codecs are the best since they're just directshow filters.
- diggSJaustin, on 11/07/2007, -0/+14Pff, too new school. Why, I remember when Run DMC took on Ethiopia. Now THAT was an epic battle.
- totorototoro, on 10/29/2007, -3/+16I think his avatar and Digg history pretty much shows that :p
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