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91 Comments
- BrettFromTibet, on 08/28/2008, -14/+61Apple censors everything... they are a one-way, conspiratorial, big money hungry, closed-shop, corporate-ass, proprietary, DRM-lovin' axis of evil...
- nerdherder, on 08/28/2008, -0/+33Dugg for thumbnail.
- FredFredrickson, on 08/28/2008, -7/+22I wouldn't say that, MacParrot. If it weren't for other services, like Amazon, offering DRM-free music for less money, iTunes would still be the same poorly encoded, pricey, DRM-ridden store it was when it started.
- misterrizzn, on 08/28/2008, -4/+17They should be able to, yes, but doesn't this put them in the role of the publisher rather than the distributor? There's a whole lot more legal culpability in being a publisher than a distributor.
- Dumbledorito, on 08/28/2008, -4/+14"Sorry, little guy; there was a buck to be made."
- digichris, on 08/28/2008, -2/+11Pulling apps due to "questionable" content is *****. They need to add in some type of rating system (ex. 13+, 17+, kids, adults only) for their apps instead of pulling them. Then they can put that in the parental controls of the iphone/touch, where they can enable/disable certain apps that they don't want their kids using. I'm pretty pissed they are pulling apps because of adult content. I'm paying alot of money for the phone/plan, and I don't want ***** censorship by people who are assuming the iPhone population is made up of mostly underage kids.
- MacParrot, on 08/28/2008, -1/+10Actually it's more likely an issue with copyright. Even though Apple did not make the app, had nothing to do with distributing copyright material, and did not (exactly) promote the app, as the distributer it puts them in the headlights of the lawyers from Marvel, DC, an Image (as well as others).
iTunes is a different story. Even though it is capable of playing MP3 files and ripping AIFF files off CDs, the agreements put in place between Apple and the various copyright holders did not disallow such activity most likely because they didn't think of it ahead of time. Movie distributers with a little more heads up notice, made sure that iTunes would not be allowed to rip movies (the fact that Steve Jobs owned Pixar and holds like a 40% interest in Disney had NOTHING to do with it....riiiiiiight)
It's a case of covering your ass before you get sued - MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -1/+10last I checked, distributors have the right to not offer content as well. Distributors are just like publishers in the fact that they too are a business.
- maxgoedjen, on 08/28/2008, -1/+9It would actually be pretty nice to see some of the ***** in the App Store denied.
- brundlefly76, on 08/29/2008, -3/+11Let me make this clear to the confused:
On EVERY other computer and major phone platform - Windows, Linux, MacOS, Windows Mobile, and Blackberry/Java, anyone can make any app they want, and distribute any app they want, to anyone. Period.
With the iPhone store, a developer has to pay a developer fee of $100 to Apple, and digitally sign every piece of code they write for the iPhone so Apple knows precisely who wrote it, or they cannot even install it on their OWN iPhone.
If they want to give ANY of their iPhone code to ANY other iPhone owner, they either need to register the other person's device as a development or beta device (limit: 100 users). Basically, this means the ONLY way you can effectively distribute an iPhone app is to distribute it through the app store.
If anyone iPhone developer even speaks to another iPhone developer about iPhone development, they have opened themselves to being sued by Apple under their NDA.
So, in a very real sense, Apple computer knows who wrote every piece of code for the iPhone, knows every single user who has downloaded it, and collects taxes and personally approves each app individually according to an unwritten TOS.
The Apple iPhone store is precisely the worst case of anti-net-neutrality that has ever existed. They control, and tax, all development, and TAX every app, and restrict free speech between developers.
Apple spent a lot of time with AT&T wrangling the 'walled garden gatekeeper' role away from them - but they have instead become the worst case of 'walled garden gatekeeper' in the history of internet development. They just wanted that role for themselves. - mrsteveman1, on 08/29/2008, -0/+7They also removed the comic thing because it MIGHT offend some people.
At the same time they stock plenty of things that would offend those people in the iTunes movie and tv stores.
The censoring is arbitrary and follows no real logic right now. - sarchosis, on 08/28/2008, -0/+7The part about censorship was in the title was just to get you to pay attention to an otherwise pointless article.
- supermanred, on 08/29/2008, -1/+6No, distributors that choose what products they distribute (every store in the world, really...) do not automatically become publishers.
iTunes is no more a "censor" of applications than Best Buy is a "censor" of electronics...
Give me a break, people. Every store owner in the world CHOOSE what to sell in their store. Apple has removed ***** apps (iamrich) and an app that was a copyright infringement... (phonesabre)
Get over it. - inactive, on 08/28/2008, -1/+5if they do stand by this action without finding a workable solution to the problem are they setting themselves up to become an Internet censorship board?
- EntropyFan, on 08/29/2008, -1/+5Indy labels early on asked... no begged to be sold on iTunes without DRM. Apple said ***** you, not a chance.
Who is pushing DRM? And at least with MS, you could license it (until they took a page from Apples book with the Zune).
Steve Jobs shed some Crocodile tears saying 'oh, it isn't me'. Too bad the fan club can't learn to call a spade a spade - MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -1/+5you're wasting your breath, MacParrot. Everybody knows the majority of Digg's user-base hates everything under the sun.
Also, Fred, iTunes Plus (non-DRM music) came out in March 2007. Amazon's non-DRM service came out in September 2007. Amazon Unbox, their video on demand service, did have DRM on the downloads. Care to find another non-DRM based, legal music download service that is not subscription based that was around before iTunes Plus? - benitojuarez, on 08/28/2008, -1/+5do you really need porn on your phone THAT badly? I think you might have a problem.
- clickmyface, on 08/29/2008, -0/+4The iPhone app store is not "the internet." It is an intrAnet. A closed system designed, built, and maintained entirely by Apple on apple hardware and on apple servers.
- MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -0/+4honestly, all Steve has to do is block porn from getting in via Apple provided channels, namely the iTunes Store. Anything you do via your own methods is fair game.
Look at google. Can you find porn on Google Video or on YouTube. Barely. And if you do, chances are it will be removes very quickly. Is that censorship, or is that keeping content off of your site that you don't want on there.
What if you go to a web forum and start posting porn. Are you going to start crying "CENSORSHIP!!!" when the forum moderators remove your posts and ban you? If yes, just go back to 4chan and wank to some anime porn. - utnow, on 08/29/2008, -1/+5This isn't a metaphysical problem folks. They own the store. They didn't want a product on the shelves. They don't need a reason. They removed it. Done.
Why not go down to any random store in your local area and quiz them about the merchandize they choose to sell or not to sell? They don't really need a reason. - VacantThoughts, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4I don't know if anyone of the people above me actually read the article but the only reason the app was taken down was due to a free comic that came with it that probably had copyrights. To me this seems pretty reasonable, as long as the app is allowed back on the store without the comic I don't see a problem.
- CalcProgrammer1, on 08/28/2008, -3/+7.m4a ftl
Unless you have an iPod (which is just as ridiculously overpriced as iTunes and uses just as much proprietary software and DRM), .m4a is pointless. Give me MP3's and I'll be happy. Seriously, there's a reason people pirate the stuff these days. You can get a better selection with better quality files that play on whatever device you have with absolutely no DRM from P2P sites. The brainless idiots at the RIAA can't see past the pile of evidence-lacking lawsuits stacked sky high on their desk to see that, if they were to properly use it, P2P networking file transfer as well as file types are a ton better than the DRM encoded iPod-only low bitrate spam they are trying to sell today. If I could buy DRM-free MP3 tracks at lossless (mathematically CD equivalent) bitrates and burn as many copies as I want and put it on my laptop, iPod, PDA, old MP3 player, XBOX 360, etc, then I'd go for it. Also, they need to come up with a better means for paying for stuff online. You shouldn't have to get an account, download some Windoze/Mac only program, you should be able to just use the Internet through any modern Web browser.
Until then, I really don't get any new music, if I really wanted something I'd just buy the CD, as it has good quality and produces MP3's and can be copied/converted without issue. - judicar, on 08/28/2008, -2/+6I'm missing the part where any of this has anything to do with the Internet.
- ha3er0, on 06/16/2009, -0/+4So, if I were to follow this argument, Apple was wrong to remove, "I am Rich" from it's store?
Listen. there are both sides of the coin, some are good and some are bad aspect in controlling what gets on the app store. Just live with it. If you don't like it, go use andriod, where you will not be limited (maybe) by your choice on apps. - MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -0/+3"Macharborguy, way to cherry pick your devices. But I can tell you my Xbox is running XBMC right now and Microsoft doesn't have anything close to a right to tell me I can't."
I mearly picked the largely known devices. PSP has been patched to prevent homebrew over and over, and the Wii gets patches all the time. Some companies are more relaxed with how they handle things. Apple may have a "killswitch" and the ability to remove apps from iPhones, but I still have the PhoneSaber app. Apple didn't remove it, because they know that would be "bad PR" and they are already getting enough.
As for MS not having the right to tell you what you can do with the XBox, actually they do. They can put out a firmware patch to "attempt" to prevent you from installing it (just like the PSP patches that, for an unlucky number of people, also bricked them). It is then up to the hacker community to deal with figuring out a way around the patch, and the cycle continues with more patches to prevent the hacks. But that is in the hacking area. Apple can do all they can to prevent jailbreaking, but it will still happen. What they DO have solid control over is the AppStore.
Yes, you are right, criticism can help, but it takes a lot more than just the vocal minority to instill change. Look at MobileMe. It wasn't the vocal minority that complained over the service blackouts early on, it was the actual majority of their subscribers. Changes are happening and people are getting free months of service while those changes to put in place. I highly doubt that the majority of iPhone users jailbreak their phones. I doubt that the number is even close to 25% of the iPhone user base, and I am being generous with that %.
And about my comment on HDDVD and Digg "bordering on ridiculous". The whole of the internet is ridiculous, and to be quite honest, HD DVD looked to be the best thing in the world, but after the whole cracking event everything just went down hill from there, and that cannot be denied. The whole Digg thing, while it wasn't THE specific thing that caused the downfall, it certainly aided in it. It was plain to see the huge support for HDDVD from the geek crowd, but since the geek crowd also hates the MPAA, as soon as the crack was found and the MPAA wanted it removed, geeks blew up against them. And I can just bet that in the back halls of Sony corporate, the firestorm of the HDDVD crack that happened online was used as a prime example given to studios for why they should take Bluray over HDDVD.
Exec: You want Bluray over HDDVD.
Studio Guy: Why? HDDVD is cheaper to make.
Exec: But you can't protect your content. Look (shows a blog to the studio guy), the format was cracked. People can rip and pirate it at full quality.
Studio Guy: Yeah, well that won't be many people.
Exec: AH, but look here... (shows the geek news sites with thousands of different usernames posting that they hate the MPAA and the studios and want to rip these movies). See, all of these people don't want to buy the discs, they want them for free. Take bluray and you won't have to worry about that.
People always say that companies are evil, rich, greedy bastards, so the above dramatization is not that big of a stretch. - IndigoMoss, on 08/29/2008, -2/+5I think this comment on the first page sums it up nicely.
"what? Shocking! Apple doesn't like things to be open and user controlled?! :O
If only there were some clues in their past behavior that could have warned us about this.
Oh wait, the clues are every business decision they've ever made. Now it's all so clear.
I mean really, If you wanted an open and democratic platform you shouldn't have bought an iphone. "
Posted by Rajio - MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -0/+3Javaroast: your example is entirely dependent on the product you are requesting.
"Could you carry Jolt Cola please?" sure, thats reasonable
"Could you carry Hustler Magazine please" Not as reasonable
And btw, I am not "sensitive", I just enjoy posting walls of text on digg and trolling around a bit on good topics. Though you will never catch me posting walls of text in threads about religion, scientology or politics. I'll leave that for the professional trolls. - lukas88, on 08/29/2008, -0/+3I think calling it internet censorship is a stretch. Throw that word around too much and it won't mean anything any more. Just take the "offensive" comic out of the program and let people download it on their own if they want. Saying that they got dealt an unfair hand is just crying wolf.
- D0nKeYKoNG64, on 08/28/2008, -17/+20of course apple should be able to censor what applications it can display on its app store.
- MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -0/+3actually SuperMoses, the "MacHarbor" in my username is the name of the hobby shop I run which is located about 15 minutes away from Mackinaw City/Mackinaw Island in Michigan (yes, gasp, i just revealed myself, something most diggers would never think of). Then again you could just do a search for my username and find my store and other web related media projects.
don't be so knee-jerk with your reactions when you see a word that reminds you of something you hate. - redstorm986, on 08/29/2008, -0/+3The internet access on the phone is in no way affected by what apps you can and can't buy.
- MacParrot, on 08/29/2008, -0/+3@phoomp
Possibly. I guess it would depend on whether they were using copyright material. Or whether anyone even notices. Since the iPhone and the app store are the hot thing for the moment, it currently gets a lot more scrutiny than say podcasts with 25 to 100 people downloading it. - MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -0/+3"That said, the idea of denying some apps because they don't happen to like the content of a comic is dumb. No idea why they can't just use the (existing) parental controls on the iphone itself to filter out explicit or whatnot content."
Try running your own business.
I run an anime store and I do NOT carry any hentai videos or items what so ever. If someone asks me if I carry any I refer them to the local porn shop. That is MY CHOICE as the business owner. - mrsteveman1, on 08/29/2008, -0/+3macharborguy: Those are good points. However the core issue here is that Apple has setup a system where they are the only source for applications unless you jailbreak the phone, and Apple shouldn't get to decide what runs on the iPhone in the first place. The malware excuse that has been tossed around is not valid, on the Mac side it has not been necessary to lock the platform to stop malware.
The stability excuse isn't valid either, Apple hasn't kept unstable apps out of the store, nor have they proven competent or quick enough to approve updates to buggy apps. That isn't going to change and isn't a consequence of the huge launch.
There are very few valid reasons for Apple to do what it has done with locking the iPhone with what is, without question, almost as bad as Microsofts Palladium. Preventing piracy is one of them, and censorship is another. Neither of them are acceptable. - MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -0/+2Go to iPhone main screen, go to Safari, load up Google Image Search, remove the mature filter, search or "porn", there you go.
- MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -0/+2"If anyone iPhone developer even speaks to another iPhone developer about iPhone development, they have opened themselves to being sued by Apple under their NDA."
Apple hasn't sued WordPress, and they open-sourced their app weeks ago and was big news on many blogs, so they HAVE to know that WordPress released the code, they just aren't touching it for reasons that only they know. - Spandia, on 08/29/2008, -0/+2How else do you get to it on the bus?
- MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -0/+2you didn't hear about the "LOL Cat" app that had a picture of a dead rotting cat in it. That program searched flickr for images tagged with "lolcat" (BAD IDEA) and one of the images happened to be a dead cat. almost EVERY review for the app is negative because of that one issue.
Now you may be saying "porn and a dead cat aren't the same thing". No their not, porn is FAR WORSE than a dead cat. But in the end, bad press is bad press and no company or individual wants to have bad press, unless you have mental problems and think black is white and then get confused over life when you see a zebra. (zebra reference made possible by The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, another great product of Megadodo Publications.) - MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -0/+2the article has one part that I am confused over...
"the only reason that the Comic Reader application was pulled was because of the free comic that came with it. so in all reality, Infurious Comics could put the application back for sale but without the comic and it should be acceptable. However, this is where we come to the second part of the problem – the distribution of the comics produced by Infurious of which I imagine Murderdrome would be one of many. From what I have gathered, once the Comic Reader is installed, the user would be able to buy more comics from the iTunes store but this would then raise the possibility of the comic being banned from there as well."
So.... comics are being sold on the iTunes Store? When did that start? - MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -1/+3ITS A CONSPIRACY!!!! BREAK OUT THE TINFOIL HATS!!!
- supermanred, on 08/29/2008, -1/+3EVERY STORE CHOOSES ITS PRODUCTS!
GET OVER IT!
:) - SuperMoses, on 08/29/2008, -3/+5It's pretty sad that people create aliases with a brand name in it. You're corporate whores and they don't even pay you. That's pathetic.
~~ GapParrot - StuartGibson, on 06/14/2009, -0/+2Yes, it was to do with the comic included in it, but was NOTHING to do with the copyright, since Murderdrome was specifically written for the comic reader app by PJ Holden who draws for 2000AD (http://www.pauljholden.com/wordpress/) and developed in collaboration with Phil Orr (http://www.bluepilotsoftware.com/).
- spdracr99, on 08/29/2008, -0/+2
I thought a porn app would be a blue app, not a "rouge" one!
"2. He would need to stop the ability to jailbrake the iphone, stopping rouge applications from being installed." - surferjoemaui, on 08/29/2008, -0/+2try pornhub.com (18+ only)
- lrdntwnd, on 08/29/2008, -1/+2Maybe you missed the part where MPEG layer 4 file-types have better encoding and provides better quality than layer 3? Apple happens to use AAC encoded .m4p audio files on the iTunes Store. But, you could create AAC .m4a audio files yourself and not have them DRM'd. I rip all of my CDs into .m4a (not .m4p, the FairPlay DRM protected file-type from the iTunes Store) format because it creates smaller files that have better audio quality than .mp3. MPEG-3 will never have the compression or quality of MPEG-4. That's why a layer 4 was created in the first place.
BTW, an AAC .m4a file at 160kbps is about the same quality as .mp3 at 256kbps. Apple also has the Apple Lossless .m4a format, but the file sizes are too large to make it practical to send them over the Internet for most songs. A 256kbps AAC .m4a (like those you buy as iTunes Plus songs) has the same audio quality as a CD. MPEG-4 is still lossy, but it's not as lossy as MPEG-3 (it has better compression). And besides, CDs aren't great audio quality to begin with. - javaroast, on 08/29/2008, -0/+1Macharborguy, way to cherry pick your devices. But I can tell you my Xbox is running XBMC right now and Microsoft doesn't have anything close to a right to tell me I can't. Apple certainly has the right to sell whatever they please in their app store, however we've seen it in the past and we'll see it again where consumer pressure changes the direction of a company. The whole idea that I have to fall lock step with whatever a particular company is pushing is obnoxious. The consumer can be a powerful source. What the Apple-crowd on digg doesn't seem to understand that criticism can help Apple and I'm sure Apple is happy to hear that they are the ones making the news rather than Nokia or Blackberry.
You comments about HD-DVD's downfall border on ridiculous. The whole digg thing had nothing to with the downfall of HD-DVD no matter how hard you want pull off the analogy. - MacHarborGuy, on 08/29/2008, -1/+2lrdntwnd: I just rip in Apple Lossless (and since I mainly have Apple products I have no problem with it). Main reason: I listen to a lot of electronica, and even at 160kbps AAC the high ends many times sound off, watery, or tinny. Sure the files are bigger, but with the amount of hard drive space we are getting, who really cares. Plus I don't ever want to pull out my collection of CDs ever again, as I can just re-encode the lossless files to a lower bitrate if I ever had the need to do so. To each his own though.
- javaroast, on 08/29/2008, -0/+1"They don't need a reason. They removed it. Done." Ah but it isn't done. Obviously.
Take your average grocery. If I want a product they don't carry my first stop is to talk to the manager of the store. 9 times out of 10 they will start carrying said product.
Apple is a public company, who made a public decision and I'm sure they can handle a little criticism. I don't know why you guys get so sensitive every time something like this comes up. Criticism isn't necessarily bad. I'm sure Apple understands that, maybe you should as well. -
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