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230 Comments
- redtapemedia, on 10/29/2008, -13/+171Rubbish. Where there's a will there's a way, and Apple didn't have the will. If they wanted firewire on it it'd be there.
- inactive, on 10/29/2008, -17/+130What *****. Look at this:
"you wind up with motherboard that doesn't span the length of the notebook. So, all of the ports have to go on one side"
Yes, because there's no such thing as wire or ribbon cable.
Apple simply fails to exercise common sense in many instances. They still don't have a Delete key on their portable computers, while every other manufacturer manages to include one on even the smallest or cheapest computers. That's right, Apple laptops don't have a real Delete key: They have a Backspace key that's mislabeled "Delete."
And all these people saying "FireWire is a 'professional' interface, so buy the Pro" are full of *****. First of all, FireWire is the only interface offered on DV cameras since their introduction in 1995. The few DV cameras that have USB use them only for still pictures.
Another glaring problem with the "buy the MacBook Pro" excuse is that the Pro is not equivalent: There's no 13-inch Pro. People in the field (shooting a documentary, perhaps) want a small, durable computer. Great job giving them no way to ingest DV or HDV video, Apple. Want to do some live sound production? Again, no dice on the nice small computer. All the best audio interfaces use FireWire.
The last thing Apple fans need is to make excuses on Apple's behalf for this blunder. Any company needs to be taken to task when it screws up profoundly; otherwise, it has no incentive to improve. Apple gets a lot of slack on stupid moves, but sometimes you have to show some backbone, people. - timusca, on 10/29/2008, -5/+57I would MUCH rather have one USB port and include firewire... I rarely need more than one at a time, and if I did, we have $1 extremely portable hubs for that.
- KSUdesigner, on 10/29/2008, -5/+40No if they really wanted firewire they would've altered the design. They are the ones that designed the damn thing, it's not like they were stuck with that exact setup.
- brisbin33, on 10/29/2008, -1/+26ok:
"you wind up with [a] motherboard that doesn't span the length of the notebook. So, all of the ports have to go on one side"
my [original] macbook has all the ports on one side, including firewire and 2 usbs... not a good justification. furthermore, as mentioned in the comments:
"..Did the K-Lock really have to be on the same side?"
i call ***** - ryanonfire, on 10/29/2008, -7/+30a.k.a. Form over function.
- Urkel, on 10/29/2008, -1/+23What a load of *****. Saying "Apple didn't want Firewire in this model" is annoying, but acceptable. But to say "Apple COULDN'T put Firewire" is pure BS.
This isn't some 10" netbook with limited space and an ultra tiny body. This is a fullsize notebook that shares the exact same dimension as every firewire enabled 13" notebook out there (including last gens Macbook). All these people making excuses for them are silly because the ONLY reason Apple didn't put firewire is because they didn't want to. - brisbin33, on 10/29/2008, -5/+26i like my mac (original macbook w/ firewire), and i agree that the lack of firewire is total *****, it's simple cripple-the-base-to-make-you-buy-more corporate philosophy, completely.
not to be a smart ass; but because i think it needs to be said:
Fn+Backspace = Delete
it's called delete because it deletes things. character behind or Fn+ for character ahead. no different than cmd+arrow for home/end page up/down etc. balancing form fit and function isn't always easy, they don't always get it right, but i like the keyboard. - srg13, on 10/29/2008, -3/+23There's no such thing as far as I'm aware of - they work in completely different ways, and are not compatible in any way with each other... While you probably could emulate a firewire port with UBS, it would be very slow, and you'd have to give it another source of power to be able to supply enough for most devices...
- popzero, on 10/29/2008, -4/+22Odd. I have an urge to reply to you with a "giggity."
- Urkel, on 10/29/2008, -4/+20I own a new Macbook and like it fine. But what gets me is how easily people eat up these garbage excuses:
"Solid Aluminum Body makes it more durable and lighter"
- First off, when was the last time you snapped a notebook in half? Magsafe was a solution to a problem, but a solid aluminum frame is more aesthetics than a feature. And what's with this "lighter" frame that results in a slightly heavier MBP?
"Glass LED will make colors pop"
- That's true. But unfortunately colors are popping on both sides of the screen. People need to realize "glassy" is not the same as last gens "glossy". In some apps I can see my reflection in full HD color. It's not a problem for me, but ugly people don't need that kind of torture.
"Look at how small mini-DisplayPort is"
- Yeah, I'm looking. It looks to be the exact same size as mini-DVI. You know, the port that fits the 4 proprietary dongles I had to buy. And now I have to buy more dongles AND you raised the price $10?
"Blu-Ray is a bag of hurt"
- Every other notebook maker can use blu-ray. The OS supports blu-ray. But they can't put it in because of licensing? Money is the reason why a $2500 computer CAN'T have a certain feature?
"Firewire simply didn't fit on the Macbook"
- A notebook that is the exact same dimensions as the previous gen which had Firewire, somehow can't fit it this time?
Look, we all like our Apple products but we have to realize we don't work for them. So rather than making excuses then why not just accept the one true fact about Apple. If an Apple product doesn't do something then it is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS because THEY don't want it to. Nothing more. - Elranzer, on 10/29/2008, -0/+16Why the MacBook couldn't have FireWire: Because there's so little difference between the MacBook and MacBook Pro that video professionals were just buying the MacBook instead because it was "good enough."
- Ommatidia, on 10/29/2008, -1/+17*****.
A few extra pins on the mobo, a firewire jack anywhere on the case, and a wire connecting the two is all that is needed. Rainer Brockerhoff is an idiot.
Apple didn't leave firewire off the cheaper MacBooks because they _had_ to. - black27696, on 10/29/2008, -2/+18Make the thing a centimeter longer and BAM! There's your firewire port. Good Lord what a load of crap.
- skidooer, on 10/29/2008, -2/+17They did find a way. It's called the Macbook Pro. The will came from the added cost for you to purchase to machine.
- iseth, on 10/29/2008, -0/+15Heck, I'm complaining that there are only two USB. Most new laptops have 4 or more. And that seems a little weird that they couldn't add a couple ports on the other side regardless of the motherboard not stretching across the whole body. There are ways. Small daughterboards would likely work just fine. PC manufacturers do it all the time to put ports on the front of PCs. Why couldn't similar principles be applied here?
- Dalhectar, on 10/29/2008, -3/+15For $1,300, I damn well better be able to eat my cake.
- sLydE, on 10/29/2008, -1/+11Oh, man, I had a boss that called it "UBS". Needless to say, even though he was a manager of IT, nobody took him too seriously.
- CalcProgrammer1, on 10/29/2008, -12/+22Wow, people are still on about the Firewire...Honestly, other than DV cameras, who uses it? I had FireWire on 3 PC's now and never once inserted a FireWire device into a computer. In fact, I don't have ANY FireWire devices. I'd rather have more USB ports than waste space with FW ports that I won't use, because, face it, nothing uses FW except for specialty devices. If you're a professional video or audio producer, maybe you should be mad, but 99.9% of us aren't pro media producers. Thus 99.9% of us don't need FireWire.
- rolf, on 10/29/2008, -3/+12I made an argument earlier in the thread to get rid of cd/dvd mostly because of the humongous amount of space it hogs.
But... the ethernet port is essential. Many hotel rooms only offer internet through ethernet, not wireless. Besides, it's WAY faster for file transfer.
So no. - duk0r, on 10/29/2008, -3/+11By looking at those pictures, I see ports that are spaced apart a little too much. Bring them in closer and make room for a firewire port. It can be done. They just didn't try hard enough.
- avianeddy, on 02/17/2009, -2/+10So after practically inventing Firewire
and constantly pushing for its implementation,
they decide they're not gonna use it anymore–
IN THEIR OWN PRODUCTS?!
Bad apple! - honesttussey, on 10/29/2008, -4/+11says who. At what point does a MacBook not be able to handle daisy chained hard drives? It blows my mind why people consider this a 'pro' feature. Keep drinking the apple kool aid
-apple user of 20 years. - logic6, on 10/29/2008, -1/+8Do me a favor, get a clown suit, make a balloon giraffe, and THEN come back to me and make that statement.
- tomarocco, on 10/29/2008, -3/+10Firewire is the Betamax of serial bus interfaces.
- rolf, on 10/29/2008, -2/+9I'm probably in the rare group that thinks the dvd drive should go...
I'll make my case here: the CD is from 1985 and the DVD is from 1996 (commercial introduction). The last time I bought packaged software is 1999. Since then, downloaded software (legally) or it was pre-installed.
Sometimes, I have to install software by disc, or rip a movie or music from one. But for those 5-6 times a year, an external player is more than adequate. I do not want to lug one around constantly just for that.
Moreover, as we head into a transition of Blu-ray, an internal drive will become obsolete and most likely non-upgradeable, an external one easily replaceable.
DVD has 4.7GB capacity, double that multi-layer. 4GB USB sticks are now under $20 ($40 8GB) at Walmart and under $10 ($15 8 GB) at pricewatch. Within a few years, they'll be the medium of cheap transfer - I could even see software "packaged" that way. Nearly dollar store items at that capacity. A usb stick is a heck of a lot more manageable than a stack of DVDs-CD, nicer too to put the data on.
Last but not least: think about the cost of real estate in the notebook case: of all the components besides the motherboard - the DVD drive is definetly the largest YET the cheapest, least necessary, and most easily used as an external component with the least hassle. Does it necessarily make sense keep it?
I like the Macbook Air, but for this reason alone. It has done away with ethernet and too few USB ports that I think is stupid (wired ethernet vs wireless speeds - no match).
The next Macbook should be radical, do away with DVD entirely, add enough ports to make people happy, offer a cheap external drive if desired at a discount to make that affordable.
But that may just be me. - bbardlbradd, on 10/29/2008, -4/+11Simple solution: Don't buy a mac.
Seriously, if you're complaining because the consumer based macs don't have firewire, you have to be making profit off of that firewire port right? You're a photographer, you're a photo editor, you're a musician, you're a computer tech... just take the money that you make from having firewire now, and spend an extra $500 for a pro model. They are worth the money, and if you're income is made by macs with firewire, you have more reason to have a pro model than a baseline model... or just go get a Dell. - mrsteveman1, on 10/29/2008, -1/+7BAM!
Emeril you want to take it from here? - SadMartigan, on 11/25/2008, -1/+7Assuming it was simply a choice between "No firewire!?" vs. "Just one USB port!?"
the current bitching is justified.
Apple just took another step towards "we like money more than customer satisfaction, and if you don't like it, buy the Pro model." - BossKey, on 10/29/2008, -0/+6>By looking at those pictures, I see ports that are spaced apart a little too much. Bring them in closer and make room for a firewire port. It can be done.
When I read comments like that I always wonder what the real meetings were like. I imagine someone asking for just that, then I imagine an engineer talking about the spacing required to prevent some effect like crosstalk, and another engineer talking about how there needs to be a certain amount of metal there for structural integrity, etc.
In other words, having been in those types of meetings I am willing to be open to the idea that solutions which are "obvious" to the uninvolved man on the street were probably examined and thrown out for one practical reason or another months ago.
In addition, now that I've read the actual article, it sounds like duk0r did not. Invisible compromises of the type I'm talking about are all in there. Like why certain port positions cause less havoc inside the case than others.
I'm not holding Apple blameless here. Apple doesn't put anywhere near as many ports in their laptops as PC makers can. I think one reason is Apple's obsession with thinness. If they didn't have to be so thin, there might be a lot more tolerances loosened up for components to move around a bit more and make room for more ports. - itsontheway, on 10/29/2008, -1/+7I am sorry. This is BS. I have worked as a video editor in Hollywood for 10 years. I have also worked on various non-hollywood productions as an editor.
Firewire IS the standard. This is pure PS. Apple just wants you to fork more money over for the pro.
I am not about to sell my top of the line red camera because it has a firewire port and not a USB port just so its works with my portable macbook.
The reason people are pissed, particularly those who use macs for creative stuff like video, music, and production is because Firewire is the standard and all their equipment has it, not USB. Sure USB 3.0 may overtake everything one day, but I doubt it. And dont give me the crap about -- "well, your a professional so you should by the pro". Typical fanboyism. Those in the production field all use or at least prefer macs or some high powered unix editing stuff that is big budget. Sure USB 3.0 may come out one day, but explain to me why I should just get rid of 25 grand RED camera that shoots just like feature film because it only has firewire?
This is a money grab. In case Apple hasnt forgot, production people make up a big chunk of their market. - skidooer, on 10/29/2008, -7/+13Fn. + Delete acts like a PC delete button. Is there really a need for a separate button when space is a concern?
- vertmem, on 10/29/2008, -0/+6using firewire nearly every day to connect a external harddiskrecorder(sounddevices)
- mstrebe, on 10/29/2008, -3/+9Apple has been using the Backspace and Delete terms the way they are now on their keyboards since 1977, before Windows or the PC existed. I see no reason why Apple users should have to change the way they've always referred to that functionality just because you used a PC before you used a Mac.
I don't know if you've noticed, but the 10-key pad on your computer is laid out THE OPPOSITE WAY from the 10-key pad on your telephone--purely so that AT&T could avoid the 10-key patent! Oh my god, everything isn't always the same! Oh No! - inactive, on 10/29/2008, -7/+12Then the design sucks. Somehow they managed to shoehorn FireWire into the previous generation of MacBooks, which are plenty small.
Coming up with an erroneous design and then failing to revise it properly just makes the company look bad. Apple does this, though: Look at the Apple mice. Making the entire mouse shell into a button turned out to be a major design mistake because there was no way to pick the mouse up for continuous scrolling while keeping the button pressed. Instead of admitting that the design wasn't going to work, Apple implemented a ***** workaround by putting those two idiotic plastic tabs on each side of the mouse that you're supposed to squeeze and lift the mouse with. That's the legendary Apple "elegance"? That's amateur hour!
Then there are UI blunders like the forced "correction" of typing on the iPhone. Apps have been doing word suggestion intuitively and unobtrusively for what, 15 years at least? Yet Apple can't get it right, choosing instead to do the opposite of what has proven to be the best way through the years. - deadbaby, on 10/29/2008, -1/+6You have to understand FireWire has been around on the Mac for a very long time and is used at a higher rate by Mac users than PC users. All my Mac's have FW so I bought 2.5" FW drives since they can be powered off one port. I bought a FW audio input for my home studio because FW has much better latency due to less CPU overhead. I have an FW port so one day I hooked up my Motorola cable box to it and found out it works great for basic TV tuner functionality.
I'm not going to whine about it. I'm just not going to buy a MacBook ever again. Everyone has the choice to vote with their dollars. OSX86 works great these days. You don't really NEED an Apple Mac if you do your research. - VitriolAndAngst, on 10/29/2008, -0/+5#1 Reason. They want you to have a reason to get the MacBook pro.
Firewire is probably going away, because USB 3 will be everywhere and be "fast enough" not as fast as FireWire 1600 --- but fast enough for HD video. USB is a peripheral standard and is not nearly as good for hard drives and video throughput as firewire -- which is isochronous (guaranteed datarate at any given time) and doesn't need the CPU. But the world is full of crappy compromises and USB is one of them. Most people won't notice the difference.
It cost them money to add firewire, and they have to put controllers on there. But if they did it in the past -- why is it MORE difficult now? It isn't. Marketing BS. Its about money, and creating a difference with the Pro Version.
However, the AV jockies and people who liked being able to access their laptop like another hard drive -- yeah, we notice. - McHoffa, on 10/29/2008, -0/+5Yet my old 12-inch powerbook g4 had 2 USB2.0 ports AND a firewire, as well as the larger miniDVI and an ethernet port... Leaving out firewire is not because they had to because of space limitations, it is because they just wanted to. I don't have too much problem with it myself, as I rarely ever used the firewire anyway, but saying they left it out because of space is dumb...
- billbugger, on 10/29/2008, -0/+5You're right USB and UBS are both burning on the fire wire. Those banks are gonna go down!
(well maybe not thanks to us.) - nesagwa, on 10/29/2008, -1/+6Shift + Backspace does the same thing. I use it all the time at work.
- Grazfather, on 10/29/2008, -0/+5They want people to pay for the pro
- podwich, on 10/29/2008, -0/+4Refrag: willynilly said that Firewire was the only interface offered on DV camcorders. He's correct (and they're still made, both DV and HDV). You brought up a different type- the hard drive camcorder. They are not the same.
- CalcProgrammer1, on 10/29/2008, -0/+4Your Packard Bell must've been top quality, my Hewlett Packard only had an ISA 14.4k and serial ports and the Compaq (Win98) after that had a PCI 56k and USB, didn't get FireWire until my next comp (also HP) that had a FireWire PCI card.
- inactive, on 10/29/2008, -0/+4Personally I think having all the connectors on one side is a stroke of brilliance - I wouldn't call it a sacrifice at all.
We have several brands of laptop at work here and any time we're setting them up for a presentation it's the usual old "now where is the X plug again?".
Keep 'em all together. Finally. - vertigo32, on 10/29/2008, -1/+5Apple could easily have included firewire if they wanted. I can see a half dozen ways to fit it into the case without removing the second USB port, not even counting the fact that Apple designed the computer in the first place and could lay it out however they wanted.
Quite simply, Apple wanted to push people to the Pro. Instead of making a negligible change in design, they force a large portion of their customer base to buy a significantly more expensive machine. - SadMartigan, on 11/25/2008, -1/+5*****.
- FeartheKnighted, on 10/29/2008, -6/+10Which is why I hate apple.
- kurtwinter, on 10/29/2008, -0/+4Because adding a daughterboard and a ribbon cable would have been too much trouble.
- skidooer, on 10/29/2008, -1/+5@offrdbandit - I can't think of any instance where I have used the delete key on a standard keyboard, let alone needed it while using my laptop. I respect that some people need the key, but they can always buy non-Apple hardware. That fact does not make Apple hardware a poor choice for everyone.
- tacochampion, on 10/29/2008, -7/+11This sycophantic justification of the FLEECING OF AMERICA is sickening.
"We couldn't have fire-wire because we couldn't engineer it to fit in this case without taking something else out!!"
THEN MAYBE YOUR OH-SO BRILLIANT DESIGN IS FLAWED
"Ok, yeah, fine, we just couldn't figure it out... but shut up about it, we are apple, we know what we're doing"
***** hilarious how you fanboys flock to defend a multi-billion dollar corporation.
"It's not their fault, NOBODY could make it fit, it's IMPOSSIBLE" -
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