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218 Comments
- MrFurious2k, on 08/18/2008, -5/+84Apple has a serious vulnerability in how it manages DRM, iPod peripherals, and the requirement of iTunes.
For example, I have a Pioneer AVIC-D3 Navigation system in my truck. I bought the iPod cable for it because I had movies on my 80GB iPod classic I could play for my kids. This made carrying DVDs a thing of the past. I would rip a disc, move it to my iPod, and play it back in my truck. Fast forward about 3 months. I bought a iPod touch because my wife was increasingly using my iPod, and I enjoyed the slimmer, more functional application of the device. Soon afterward, I discovered my iPod touch would not work on the iPod cable from Pioneer. Apparently apple had integrated some sort of chip in the cable (for video), and upped the price about $50 for the Apple brand cable. Apple claimed it was because of the higher resolution the Touch could provide, but sites on the Internet told stories of starting the movie with a "certified" cable and then switching it mid-stream to the old cable without any ill effects. From a consumer perspective, Apple has now made all of the peripherals useless that dock a Touch or iPhone. Further, iTunes has lots of documented problems when using it to transfer music.
The real strength of Apple was all the aftermarket equipment and ubiquity of their interface. If they sack that ubiquity in the name of higher profits for themselves, it could ruin their dominance. Further, it does nothing but engender dissatisfaction from someone like myself. - socivitus, on 08/18/2008, -17/+70Dell is supposed to put a dent in Apple's digital music dominance without creating more iPod knockoffs or developing an iTunes clone? I can smell failure from here.
- Residents, on 08/18/2008, -1/+32No matter what side you're on, you like Apple or Dell. Competition is always good for us consumers. Rock on.
- Meursault, on 08/18/2008, -19/+47Michael Dell said in the late 1990s that Apple should close its doors and return money to its shareholders.
Now Apple's valuation is 3x that of Dell's. ***** owned. - inactive, on 08/18/2008, -12/+40um ipods were a knock off of CREATIVE LABS and other MP3 players.
Why the ***** is it, that whenever another mp3 player is made, its an Apple knockoff?
Guess what? iPod IS the ORIGINAL KNOCKOFF! - k4rm4, on 08/18/2008, -16/+42Not going to lie, iTunes was nice at first, but now it's just a pain in the ass.
If Dell can put up a quality product that works and updates and is supported like the iPod
without all the new jazz Apple has now that is supposed to make everything integrated so
Jobs can achieve his New World-Apple Order where everything revolves around Apple products
I would buy it. - MacParrot, on 08/18/2008, -0/+22@Boofster
Actually he's right. Starting with the 6th gen iPod video and above, there is a certification chip required for all accessories to play video to a device other than the iPod itself.
I had a 1st gen nano that I was pretty happy with, but wanted portable video as well so I bought an iPod 80GB Classic. I wanted to share those videos with the family and play them on our TV, so I also bought an Apple iPod/AV kit that included the cable, dock, and remote control. Hooked it all up and got only audio. I did some quick research and discovered that the AV kit was only good for the 4th gen iPod Photo and 5th gen iPod Video. Even the sales people at the Apple store I went to were unaware of this problem until I returned the AV kit.
I ended up buying just the composite cable (which was cheaper) that didn't include the dock or remote. I would have to buy those now individually at a higher price than the AV kit. Apple no longer sells an all-in-one iPod solution for your TV and be careful buying a third-party device for this as most of them have not been upgraded (and probably won't be since it requires a higher licensing cost).
My guess is that Apple did this to "encourage" AppleTV sales. Frankly this is BS and I expected better from Apple or at least that they would provide some better training for their employees so that they would prevent sales like mine that would just have to be returned.
While I'm certainly an OS X proponent, this is why I haven't bought an iPhone, AppleTV, or iPod Touch. Until Apple gets some of these products right, I won't buy them. - wastern, on 08/18/2008, -1/+18We all saw how well Play For Sure worked out. This seems like that all over again
- kipmartin, on 08/18/2008, -9/+24i could smell failure after reading "Dell".
- inactive, on 08/18/2008, -4/+16Let's see: They failed with the Dell DJ and Ditty, and failed miserably.
Now that the market is saturated, and more mature, they are going to come in and "compete" again, via software services? That is some strong kool-aid he is passing out to the Dell execs... - awhiteflame, on 08/18/2008, -5/+17But back then, *most* of us were using CDs. Harddrive-based solutions were not the overwhelming majority as they are now.
Just because there are iPod knock-offs doesn't mean iPod was the -first-, it just means that it's trying to be the iPod. - browe07, on 08/18/2008, -5/+16I could smell failure after reading "Dell vs. Apple"
- bjornski, on 08/18/2008, -1/+12True, silly name.
It must be a lot easier to just stick an "i" in front of everything. - EtherGnat, on 08/18/2008, -0/+11Oh my god, the product name starts with the same letter as another product that sells reasonably well (it's the #2 best selling HD based MP3 player on Amazon). Everybody panic!
- mlavergn, on 08/18/2008, -1/+11Original:
"Apple wants to lock you in," says Robert Enderle, a consultant who has been briefed by Dell. "Dell wants to lock you in to choice."
Yeah, let me fix that for you there:
Editted:
"Apple wants to lock you in," says Robert Enderle, a consultant who has been briefed by Dell. "Dell wants to lock you in to MICROSOFT."
Now that that's fixed, I'll take Apple's open source / standards based OS X / AAC / MP4 lock in over the closed source / proprietary Windows / WMA / WMV lock in every time, but thanks for asking! - EtherGnat, on 08/18/2008, -3/+12Apple was a total ***** mess when Michael Dell said that. It was only the unexpected return of Jobs that righted the ship, or else I'm sure Dell's evaluation would have been correct.
- Meursault, on 08/18/2008, -2/+11Your point is rather a stretch. Migrating to a new OS kernel, as Microsoft did when it shifted from 95/98/Me to Win2K, is not quite the same as shuttering your business.
- MacParrot, on 08/18/2008, -4/+13They didn't have a choice before???
- Balanced, on 08/18/2008, -3/+12Yes, Dell made said statement when Mac OS X was already well under development if not nearing release...
- inactive, on 08/18/2008, -1/+10What do you do if you're a moron, but not a complete moron? See? This is where I get stuck. I need people like you to explain, in rational terms, what morons, partial morons, and complete morons do in each situation. Thank you in advance.
- ibeetle, on 08/18/2008, -1/+10He wants a board standard? Like Plays For Sure?
How about this for a standard... no DRM. Works for eMusic and Amazon. Why not Dell? Even Apple is dipping its toes into the DRM free music pool.
Oh wait, Dell can't control no DRM and certainly cannot make any money on that. - BossKey, on 08/18/2008, -0/+9They're public companies. Their shareholders demand a certain annual growth rate. If you feel that your company can't achieve that growth rate through your core line of business, then you may decide to develop new lines of revenue. Some companies interpret that to mean they should start competing in more market segments.
This thinking worked for Apple with the iPod and iPhone. Music players and mobile phones were not anywhere near Apple's core line of business, but they successfully turned the iPod and iPhone into fast growth sources and the stock showed it. Not everything they try does that, but that's normal. Microsoft throws money at multiple directions other than Windows and Office to find new areas where growth can happen, and again, some of it works out, some doesn't. - serpicolugnut, on 08/18/2008, -0/+9Uh, yeah, Apple does dominate the personal music player market. They are the #1 music retailer - digital download or physical CDs, and they sell over 70% of the digital music players in the market.
If that doesn't qualify as dominating, I don't know what does. - serif69, on 08/18/2008, -0/+7Apple is just itching to go DRM-free on its music and movies. They know where the future is, but the content providers are the ones putting restrictions on them, trying to "level out the playing field" in a power play to bring up Amazon and eMusic. If Dell wants to keep DRM in place, I'm sure all the content providers will be only too happy to oblige, while continuing their agreements with Amazon and eMusic, and loosening their stranglehold n DRM with Apple. They'll drive Dell right into the also-ran category.
- patm1987, on 08/18/2008, -1/+8iTunes in my mind has two major flaws (and I'm not going to rant about DRM here).
The first is one of the major benefits I see in digital distribution is having automatic off-site backup. For example, in Steam if I buy a game I can delete it entirely and re-download it later at no additional charge. With iTunes you get 1 free "oops I lost my data" redownload of all your songs and after that you're stuck rebuying everything in the event of data-loss.
Secondly, iTunes is dog-slow on both my computers. They are mid-high range machines that manage to perform well otherwise (as in I can play Crysis on my desktop and don't have to wait very long for any common tasks on either).
That being said, I do buy music online. Usually from http://amiestreet.com/ or http://www.amazon.com/ because they let me redownload any music I buy an indefinate number of times, don't require a special playback program (iTunes/iPod), and lack any DRM. Also, for music playback I enjoy media monkey on windows and amarok on linux. - newbill123, on 08/18/2008, -1/+8Does Peter Burrows also write for the tabloids? The article ends with the line:
"[Bucher] says he has tremendous admiration for the Apple CEO. 'I guarantee it's not about revenge,' Bucher says."
If the author has a direct, on-the-record quote from the principal challenger that this is about business, why use the sensationalist "Why It May Be Personal" title? - AzureRise, on 08/18/2008, -2/+9What he's saying it's ***** that any music player developed is automatically marked as an iPod knockoff.
- Zerophnx, on 08/19/2008, -0/+6RTFA -
"He won't challenge Apple head on, with iPod knockoffs or a Dell version of the iTunes music store. " - MacParrot, on 08/19/2008, -0/+6Jabby
The original Mac OS died when System 7 was released. The Classic Mac OS died when OS X was released. The original Mac died when they stopped making the Mac Classic. The 68xxx Macs died when AIM was formed and the PowerPC was used. THAT died except for mostly embeded systems when Apple switched to Intel.
Apple continuously reinvents itself. Most other computer companies just roll until some product line doesn't sell as much anymore, but they squeeze until the last second. I know you want Apple to die and it just seems to eat you up inside that they constantly seem to just get better. Whatta bummer eh? - nothugo, on 08/18/2008, -6/+12Hmmm... how is this going to work... let me think. Ooh ooh! I got it! Dell pre-installs it on every PC it ships out and the Average Joe Dell buyer doesn't know better than to use it because "it came with my Dell computer so it must be the best thing to use because it says Dell, right?"
- fugazied, on 08/18/2008, -0/+6Ok name one that has specs, applications, and aesthetics of the ipod touch. Ready? GO!
- colincornaby, on 08/18/2008, -5/+11What is it with these companies that feel the need to compete in every marketplace? Dell is a profitable company right now, but for some reason they're investing in music where they already got their ass handed to them once before? Stick to what you're good at Dell...
- LocalDocal, on 08/18/2008, -1/+7"I realize this may seem ignorant to some, but I truly believe that if you don't like iTunes, you may as well shove your fingers in your butt."
What is ignorant? You mean how you don't like that some people prefer other methods of buying online music other than iTunes? And that your only response to such a concept is to say an infantile insult?
If that's the case, then yes, I do agree. You are extremely ignorant. Or possibly just an idiot. One of those. - EtherGnat, on 08/18/2008, -0/+5It sounds a lot like what Microsoft tried with PlaysForSure before they dropped that tactic for the Zune. Personally I was sad to see it go (the concept; not the implementation) and I hope Dell can make it work.
Unlike some people here (judging by the comments) I prefer to have a choice of music stores and media players. - inactive, on 08/18/2008, -3/+8Apple is locked down and buy buy buy hardware from me !!!!
Google is anything but! - SugarCoatedSalt, on 08/18/2008, -2/+7their strategy sounds good, but they better, no...they have to invest in an outstanding marketing team.
that's the problem with these companies, they expect to beat apple with their next "ipod killer" without a great marketing team, how else are you suppose to get the idea across? - KMartSheriff, on 08/18/2008, -1/+6They might have done this to encourage AppleTV sales, but I'm sure the studios were also behind this as well. Either way, it's still ***** up.
- nitrojunky24, on 08/18/2008, -0/+5multiple companies in the same market working together? usually fails 2at most but 3,4,5,6,7? maybe more usually fails because everyone thinks what a minute if dell can due it why don't we make our own open format transfer thing? thereby you have mass confusion and major fail!
- digitalpencil, on 08/18/2008, -1/+6Because it isn't the product that defines its market position, it's the success of that product.
'who dun it first' is kind of irrelevant because it has no bearing on market status and when you're talking about a 'knock-off' in a purely business sense, you're talking about knocking a product off it's pedestal.. becoming the next big player..
In precisely the same way that portable cassette players were universally referred to as 'walkmen' the ipod is the most successful dap of its generation, it's become so ubiquitous the term 'ipod' is generally used in place of 'mp3 player'.
For Dell to attempt to overtake a product that pervasive is a huge task and for them to even consider attempting this without trying to offer a more innovative service and contendor for iTMS is ridiculous.. even if they do succeed in consolidating 3rd parties against Apple, they can't begin to hope to crush them without outdoing their current service! - MrFurious2k, on 08/18/2008, -1/+6The video works? My audio still works, but my video is gone. Someone at the Apple store intimated that there was a hardware change in the iPod Touch that was responsible for the video cable issue. If it's not too much bother, would you post your software and hardware version?
- MisterKen, on 08/18/2008, -2/+7"Customers want access to content from a broad variety of sources—how, when, and where they choose," says CEO Michael Dell."
Yes, that is called iTunes and we're doing fine with that. Thanks for calling and please take me off your list.
(click) - kipmartin, on 08/18/2008, -1/+6except for doubling its catalog, starting the App Store, renting movies, creating an entire hardware line. building the first true convergence between phones and digital music players, and oh yeah--selling more songs, players, and movies than all competitors combined.
but yeah, they are stagnant. even their stock is bogged down to a paltry 25% growth every year.
now the Zune, well THERES a music player. do they still make those things? - inactive, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4after 5 years of heavy drinking
- knuckles, on 08/19/2008, -0/+4I'm on both sides. I buy Apple hardware, but I'll be damned if I buy their monitors. All my LCD screens are Dells.
- theOster, on 08/18/2008, -1/+5i always get irritated with the "stick to what you're good at" rhetoric. if everyone did that the world would collapse. go out on a limb and try something different. you just might stumble on a great niche.
- slinky317, on 08/19/2008, -0/+4Dell wants to lock you into Microsoft?
Dell offers both Windows and Ubuntu based machines. Microsoft also lets you put Windows on Apple-based machines.
Why can't I go out and buy (legit) OSX and install it on my PC? - Charlotte_Web, on 08/19/2008, -0/+4Microsoft has already tried and failed with the coalition strategy. Of course, Microsoft's way was to lock down the DRM even more than Apple.
- phoomp, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4No. He's saying that Apple might loose some of it's fans based on a new trend of Apple profit-taking decisions that led to rendering older video cable obsolete and a 40% increase in the price of a proprietary replacement video cable.
What's more, 3rd party video cables that recently came on the market are rendered useless through seemingly protectionistic code in the latest firmware. - rimantas, on 08/19/2008, -0/+4mmm, good product by the committee, we have plenty of those
- ExRe, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4That's like saying Microsoft doesn't dominate the PC market.
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