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Copyright Board of Canada gives thumbs-up to "iPod tax"

arstechnica.com — The Copyright Board of Canada released its decision today on whether iPods and other digital music players can be subject to a levy meant to compensate musicians for their efforts. It gave the go-ahead for Canada's government to create the levy, but also made some worrying comments about cell phones and computers potentially falling under

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  • liRising, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2FTA: "Whether the levy will actually be implemented remains to be seen, but worried Canadians should plan their media player purchases soon if they want to avoid paying extra"

    Good idea! Put me down for a mp3, a mobile and maybe a laptop too...
    • bmnow, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13The Board apparently ruled that the levy could conceivably be applied to cellphones and personal computers too.

      It's 2004 all over again...
    • ToadLeg, on 10/11/2007, -0/+23They should tax TVs to compensate news programs that could be received on them, tax anything metal to compensate metalworkers, tax food to compensate farmers, tax glass to compensate glassmakers, tax microchips to compensate chip manufacturers. Everything that is made or could be made should be taxed to compensate people or potential people for making it.
    • eplawless, on 10/11/2007, -9/+2I don't mind. I pay a tax on my mp3 player, I download as many mp3s as I want, legally. I go to concerts, buy CDs directly from or just give money to the artists I want to support. Dramatic savings overall.
    • rebrad, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13There is nothing like a government that assumes that all of it's citizens are criminals or just another excuse to legally confiscate your money. Either way they know you'll just roll over with your arse in the air.
    • hiphoc, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Ok, who wants to bet that the money wont go o the artists? This is what governments do best. Tax you for one thing, then use the money for another, remember social security? By the way, what percentage out of every dollar will get to the artists? We all know the gov't is soooo effecient at redistributing wealth right!!! Taxes are just a control mechanism. A founding father said the power to tax is the power to kill. Keep these ***** out of your pocket.
    • nogami, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Doesn't bother me one bit. I live by the border, I'll just buy my stuff in the US and deprive Canadian retailers of ANY profits.
  • norman619, on 10/11/2007, -1/+122They have the tax on blank media and now this. Since the artists are now being compensated for their music is it now ok for us to download music?
    • RogerStrong, on 10/11/2007, -4/+35- Uploading is illegal.
      - Downloading is a grey area, and will probably be made illegal.
      - Trading music with friends and family is legal - this is spelled out in Canadian copyright law. In return the artists get the blank media tax. This only applies to music, not say, video.

      This is another reason why music DRM should be fought in Canada, and breaking any music DRM for personal copying should legal. I'm forced to pay for the right to copy music - whether I choose to or not. Every time I back up my photos or source code or documents - several times a week - I pay a tax to the musicians. If they legalize copying in return, fine. But if they add a DRM scheme that's illegal to bypass, well, the law is wrong and should be ignored.
      • thechick3n, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9Wrong, and Wrong

        http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5182641.html

        Uploading is legal, and so is Downloading.
        "In a far-ranging decision, the court further found that both downloading music and putting it in a shared folder available to other people online appeared to be legal in Canada."
        • PedleZelnip, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8> Uploading is legal, and so is Downloading

          In Canada, for the record.
      • ycomp, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0someone please explain as I have never understood this. If uploading is illegal, but downloading is legal, wouldn't the act of downloading be illegal with today's technology since whoever is downloading is also uploading parts of it? e.g. bittorrent or emule?

        p.s. I read the other comments about uploading being legal also, I just want to understand this because it puzzles me.
    • KibibyteBrain, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12I've made software before. Can I just assume people are stealing it and get money from a tax on all new computers?
      • johnas, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1No, the private copy levy in Canada only applies to music. Private copying of software in Canada isn't legal.
        • DiamondIce, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Actually, if memory serves, the wording the judge used in the 2004 case makes it apply to ANY copyrighted material, even software.
    • LethalAmbition, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5... And that, my friend, is how silly this tax is.
    • sporb, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1time for allofmp3 to move to canada. if you burn it or put it on your ipod it's gotta be legal, the levy is there saying so.
      • DiamondIce, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2It wouldn't work for allofmp3.com. The law only applies to personal use.
    • Guspaz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4They HAD a tax on iPods. You used to have to pay $40 per iPod for the copying levy. The courts shot it down saying that the copyright board didn't have the authority.

      Essentially, the copyright board now seems to be saying "Nuh UH! We do SO have the authority!"
  • 007ami, on 10/11/2007, -20/+1Musicians need to be supported. I work with a Grammy nominated musician who has taken up an office job because there in no money to be made in music and he couldn't support his family. We are not talking about a Karaoke star here, this is a man that has been recognized for his talent. I am willing to pay a little tax to help ensure that great musicians continue to produce music, that I will continue to enjoy. Having said that, who knows what the Canadian government will really do with the funds. I don't trust them to put the money in the right places over the long run.
    • abid786, on 10/11/2007, -1/+22Instead of taxing blank media, which may or may not be used for pirating music, it is probably better to come up with better distribution methods for music, getting rid of greedy coorporations such as the RIAA.
    • MercedRocks, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13Yah, and Im sure musicians will see all of this money.

      Here's an idea, make good music and sell it at a fair price DRM-free.........its not rocket science.

      Sorry but, maybe, just maybe, your buddies music just plain sucked. :)
      • RogerStrong, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5The point of DRM is to maintain the monopoly of the big distributors.

        The internet allows people to legally distribute their music without the big distributors. So, they keep trying not only to impose DRM schemes and make breaking them illegal, but to have the law *REQUIRE* DRM schemes on players. That is, ban the sale of players that play non-DRM media.

        That way the musicians are forced to pay for distribution, via legal and license fees on the DRM scheme required for consumers to play their music.
    • iwatts, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17So your co-worker the musician is not enjoying commercial success and much airplay? How the heck do you think the CPCC determines which artist gets what of the media and iPod tax? They base it off CD sales, digital music sales and air-play. The cheque for $2.19 from the CPCC will get the musician a large dbl dbl from Tim's, not freedom from office drudgery.

      The notion that anyone who purchases media or an iPod is by default, a thief, is asinine and insulting.
    • RogerStrong, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12>> Musicians need to be supported.

      If I have to pay him every time I back up my source code, photos or documents onto blank media, I should get something in return. If I have to pay him when I buy flash memory for my Pocket PC or camera, I should get something in return. What Canadia law gives consumers like me is the right to private copying among friends and family, but NOT public performance or broadcast rights.

      If this still doesn't seem reasonable, consider this: The blank media tax in return for legalized private copying scheme was created and pushed into law by the musicians and thier representitives, NOT the consumers.
    • Tearlock, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12Sounds like your friend is a good musician but a crappy businessman. Instead of trying to leech off of the consumer and use them as a scapegoat for his lack of financial success, perhaps your friend should be exploring the new effective ways the Internet is making even unsigned artist financially independent. We're in an era where a garage/rock band can screw around on some treadmills with a consumer grade camcorder and experience overnight success. Tell your friend to learn to market himself, it's getting cheaper and easier.
    • lordmetroid, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Yes, musician needs supported... He can be supported by providing me with something I want to pay for or giving me the price I am willing to pay. Not coerse me to pay his living!!! ***** communists!
    • subxero37, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Grammy nominated? Wait, who is this person?

      (OK, this should appear as a reply to 007ami's comment. Half the time I comment anymore, it's either *never submitted* or it *ends up in the wrong place.* Even then, the new comment system kills my paragraphs! It shoves everything on one line. Hopefully this reply woooorks. Sorry for the rant.)
    • TheRealToma, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5We real musicians play to entertain and bring joy to others. We real musicians have office jobs and hate them too. We dont have a greedy aspiration for a million dollars, just to know that people appreciate what we write, and inspires them in their own lives. Tell your buddy to suck it up and rethink what he stands for.
  • thenativeraver, on 10/11/2007, -13/+5I say tax the iPod and get a Zen.
    • pr5owner, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1screw the zen, get a Meizu M6, 8GB for $150 and it plays Xvid
  • StalfoS, on 10/11/2007, -1/+113Sweet! I can now download all the music I want from P2P networks because I paid a levy on my iPod!!
    • ExaltedDragon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0I guarantee you most of that levy will never leave Canadian coffers.
      • kushiel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0...and? Canadian music publishing companies pay licensing fees to release foreign artists' music in Canada, so money will still get to the artists via the publisher.
    • georgetds, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1It is still against the law to steal music, regardless of the levy. The problem is that now there are two laws that seem to contradict each other, and one sooner or later is going to have to go. The levy is a joke that is costing Canadians money and still does not stop those of us from taking music from being criminals. If we are going to adjust our copyright laws to make the music and video industry happy, why don't we match it closer to the US and at least make it so Canadians can get videos off of iTunes?
      • yabos, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3It's already been ruled that you can download music without consequence in Canada, even before this levy. The only thing that is illegal is distributing it to other people like bittorrent uploading to other people.
        • georgetds, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Yeah, I just followed a link regarding this. I wonder how I missed this when it came out? Oh well. Interesting. Although it still seems to imply that if I actually distribute music it is illegal, and if I seek it out I might be breaking the law too. I have to read more now.
  • MercedRocks, on 10/11/2007, -14/+9Yah, and Im sure musicians will see all of this money.
    I wonder how many Canadian will now got to the US to now buy their iPods "iTax-free."

    This is something the stupid US does, not Canadians.
  • bullsfan03, on 10/11/2007, -8/+7F*ck that im getting a Zune now... /sarcasm
    • Ricapar, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Too bad the Zune isn't available in Canada.
      • zodieman, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Yeah, then it would REALLY not sell.
    • pr5owner, on 10/11/2007, -2/+0do you go to bestbuy for all your electronic needs? lol if so you are a sad individual, go online and see whats out there. (PAST THE US/CAN BORDERS)
  • fentanyl, on 10/11/2007, -18/+30***** the conservatives. They are going down at the next elections.
    • phoomp, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15This isn't the Conservatives (yet). Right now, it is the Copyright Board of Canada. They're probably the exact same people who pushed this through when the Liberals were in power.

      No matter. I'll gladly pre-pay 10-20% the price of an iPod for legalized sharing "unauthorized copyrighted material".
      • cyberwarriorx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I don't see how this can be confused to begin with. This isn't a government mandated change. This is done by a board that was setup years before the conservatives were even elected. I'd also like to point out the levies on cd's and mp3 players were originally enacted during the liberals reign throughout the 90's.
    • maxtangent, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Because the Liberals have proven so fair and just?? It is the same false left/right paradigm as exists in the U.S.
    • jefffm, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4you seem a bit confused. conservatives CUT taxes (generally).
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism#Fiscal_conservatism
      • RogerStrong, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1In theory.

        In the past few decades in Canada and the US, it's been the Conservatives/Republicans who have run up the massive deficits, and the Liberals/Democrats who have been more fiscally conservative.

        Harper seems to breaking this trend, but Bush was running up all-time record deficits even *before* 9/11 and the Iraq war.
    • aristotle0dude, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2Wow. Did you even finish high school? I suppose you never bothered to actually watch the news and you base your opinions on the propaganda of your equally clueless pinko friend eh? The federal Liberal party stole millions of dollars of tax payer money and funnelled it into the pockets of their friends.

      Now look at what the Conservatives have been able to accomplish even with a minority government. The economy is booming and the majority of Canadians have had their faith in the system restored.

      This copyright board was setup during the liberal government regime and it is run by the CRIA.
    • fentanyl, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Apology for the term conservative. Neocon would be more accurate. Just look at the bill they want to introduce. They want to give the power to the corporations, just like the DMCA did in the US.
      http://excesscopyright.blogspot.com/2007/04/cria-and-cmec-train-wreck.html
  • jcm267, on 10/11/2007, -1/+53exactly how will this be distributed to the artists fairly?
    • DCUK, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Well 98% will go to the major labels and 95% of that will be given to maddona of course!

      The remaining 2% will go on "admin" fees
    • restlessdesign, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13not one cent of it. i imagine they're just going to be used to keep the courts open to hear all the ridiculous cases brought against your average joe.
    • davidjunit, on 10/11/2007, -9/+4It won't! It'll go to pay for your heath care whether you use it or not. YAY! Socialized health care!
    • ExaltedDragon, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0They will impose another special 'Artist Admin Distribution Tax' which will pass because its not an IPOD tax, its a tax on the IPOD tax :)
    • smacksaw, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Actually, almost all of it. There's something called CanCon rules and the money goes towards supporting the development of Canadian content. There are lots of grants and monies available for Canadian artists. It's much easier to break through in Canada than the US because of the backing a serious artist can get.
  • djaoki, on 10/11/2007, -2/+18Are these the first steps towards socialized...music???

    How is it decided WHICH artists receive compensation. Suppose I am on an independent label and have music available for retail sale, but a majority of it is acquired on P2P networks. How would it be determined the amount or even eligibility for compensation.

    Quite a bit of gray area if you ask me...
    • AdionC, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I suppose that sales to downloads ratio is assumed to be more or less the same for all music.

      Furthermore, as far as I know the compensation you pay is only for copying music that you legally own to your device, not to copy illegaly obtained music.
    • smacksaw, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2It mainly goes to struggling artists. You ask the CRTC for support.
    • RogerStrong, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1>> socialized...music???

      No, that's the US system. They're the ones who are, more and more, dictating to citizens where and how they can listen to music. Dictating that new TVs, receivers and DVD players MUST support DRM. Stuff like that.

      Some aspects of the US are the most socialist on earth. The state department for example telling its citizens what countries they may not visit, or sell products to. New laws that require *Americans* to have a passport to cross the border. Or the post office, which will take companies to court for "undermining the postal system" if they use FedEx and UPS too often. Or the largest crown (government) corporations on earth.
  • DavidGX, on 10/11/2007, -2/+54So everyone who buys an mp3 player is ASSUMED to steal music and charged for it? What kind of ***** is that?
    • Amnesia10, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Since something like 97% of music on iPods is from CD collections which we have already paid for, Canadians are effectively being asked to pay twice for the right to listen to their music. Heck on that basic Hollywood is entitled to a share of all TV's DVD players and video players sold in Canada as well
      • steal_apps01, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1Yeah, right, you know you "stole" most of the music on your portable music device, besides it's not like the tax will be another 50$ it'll be like 50 cents more. Us Canadians already have a portable media tax (Blank CD's...) and it's like 20 cents on the total price of a 100 pack of CD-R's, for example.
        • maxtangent, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2So another tax is needed?
        • DavidGX, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Making assumptions like that is really stupid. Don't assume to "know" ANYTHING about anyone here.
  • romsel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6similar tax is coming to switzerand too
    http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/social_affairs/detail/Judges_confirm_tax_on_digital_music_players.html?siteSect=201&sid=8013457&cKey=1184174694000
  • akatherder, on 10/11/2007, -4/+47Not to start a gun control debate, but this is like putting a murder tax on guns. They just assume you are going to do something illegal?
    • Organisciak, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0At the same time, its a tax that tries to balance out the fact that the most common use of the device is illegal. Even if you're not doing it, most others are... it's like you're bribing them to let the device keep selling. :) I mean, if I country really wanted to curb illegal downloading, they'd ban storage over 10GB of storage.
  • wheeze, on 10/11/2007, -0/+19Music has the right to freedom ;-)
  • moolcool, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1its not so bad. this means they will be easier on p2p.
  • lacronicus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9How does one apply for this "compensation"? if its enough to get back money lost from piracy, it has to be considerable. can I just go up and say im an artist whose music is stolen and get a ton of cash?
    • PjsPjs, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1yeah and bring a wheel barrow.
    • ExaltedDragon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0They apply for compensation by being an elected official of the Canadian Govt.
    • piradians, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2When such a levy was first introduced a few years back they kept all the money in a bank account that no one touched. Once those in power realized that the money wasn't going anywhere, they decided to return in back to the manufacturers they received it from, who in turn returned it to their customers. Apple had a section on their Canadian site for the refunds from the iPod levy.

      I have no idea why the idea has been reintroduced, except that perhaps someone figured out how to legally access the money and are pushing this through (again) knowing they will make a buck without doing any real work.
      • HHP2K, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Wait, they actually had done this before? And now they're doing it again? Wtf..
      • Argo1, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0If remember correctly when mp3 players were first released the tax was put on it immediately (A tax which applies to all blank media) with out discussion, somebody pointed this out, so they removed the tax until further discussion, now it seems like they have added the tax again. Personally as long as this http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5182641.html stays true I'm happy.
  • mastercheif, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6How can this be legal? I really don't think it would hold up in a supreme court (or whatever Canada has). I shouldn't have to pay an extra tax on my product just because some people download music illegally. Why should I have to pay the labels and artists extra money even tough I buy CDs? You shouldn't be taxed for a crime you may commit.
    • c2mfj, on 10/11/2007, -5/+4This is called socialism. Welcome to it.
    • Sabin, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2Welcome to Canada where anything is OK as long as you append the word tax to it. This is basically a theft tax. Hopefully next they implement a political assassination tax so someone can take a shot at Mr. Harper and get away with it.
      • DarkDakota, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3I've got 500 in cash for that to happen, . . . . . i'm waaaaaiting . .. . .
  • YuriSakazaki, on 10/11/2007, -0/+20I'm a musician, where do I apply for my cut?
    • backin5minutes, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3exactly what i was thinking
      • TheRealMisterd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The only way you are going to get a "cut" is with a sharp object.
  • davidjunit, on 10/11/2007, -1/+19Ironically I think this news deserves a depressing song from Boards of Canada.
    • Roger, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14I almost dugg this story until I realized it wasn't about BoC.
  • joot2112, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5This doesn't make any sense. If the tax is meant to compensate musicians whose copyrights have been ignored, how is the government going to distribute this tax money to musicians? Are all musicians somehow going to get a piece of it? What about non-Canadian musicians? This seems totally unfeasible.
    • DoShurikn, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1It's easy they gonna give it to Major labels who will distribute it fairly to the artist!

      /sarcasm
    • PjsPjs, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1That is the point. It is unfeasible. So you have to become a member of some bureaucracy to qualify, fill out paper work, disclose all of your personal information and in general be a cooperative little socialist.
  • TheRealToma, on 10/11/2007, -0/+211. Become musician
    2. Dont buy ipod
    3. ????
    4. Profit.
  • grubworth, on 10/11/2007, -6/+4ORRRRAANNGGEEEE
    • imdeanlabouty, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1This guy is cooler than everyone else who dugg/commented on this story, and he's getting dugg down. Shame.
  • BBCmafia, on 10/11/2007, -6/+3Idiots, so just drive over to the U$A get your pod or whatever stick it in your pocket and go home. Message to Canadian goverment, UP YOURS.
    • maxtangent, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Then the (a)tax will be applied at the border.
      • Sabin, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Get rid of the box and receipt. You've now owned this ipod for months as far as the customs officer is concerned. With our dollar almost at par it makes a lot of sense to buy electronics in the states anyways.
      • nogami, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Actually, it won't. It's a levy, not a tax.

        Canada customs doesn't collect levies, I heard so directly from one of their officers when I brought some recordable media back.
    • pr5owner, on 10/11/2007, -4/+0WTF would you buy a locked down ipod? how much ***** do you have to go through just to put a song on it?

      itunes, itunes requires certian OS, upgrade os and pay through your nose, propriatary cables, no ability to customize, no EQ, NOTHING! (your 7 preset "eq" distortion settings dont count as a REAL EQ)
  • BBCmafia, on 10/11/2007, -8/+11Idiot just said "This is called socialism" NO stupid this is called capitalism. This is for the corporations.
    • cgreentx, on 10/11/2007, -5/+3Capitalism = Free Market. A program that collects taxes to pay artists for the public good would definitely be Socialism.
      • DavidGX, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7I don't think it's either. It just sounds like "*****" to me.
      • DarkDakota, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2If it truly is for the artist, then how do they get it?
        Answer the question, or it's just a blind tax!
      • ExaltedDragon, on 10/11/2007, -2/+0This is not 'for the public good' that a tag line of these socialist blowhards. This is a tax so that Canadian elected officials can buy there way to the top of Ferrari's waiting list while some small fun in life just got EVEN MORE expensive for the average Canadian.
  • dodgyd55, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3oh, i thought they ment the band, was thinking when did they get so much power?
  • Argus2m, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9Here is the legalese to how the Musicians get paid, this can all be found here http://cpcc.ca/english/about.htm


    Eligibility of Payment
    The Copyright Act identifies the general types of copyright holder on whose behalf private copying royalties are collected and are eligible for payment. Songwriters, music publishers, recording artists and record companies – those with rights in the music copied – are all eligible. While songwriters and music publishers are eligible regardless of nationality, only Canadian recording artists and record companies may receive payments under current law.

    Payments to Copyright holders
    Responsibility for distributing private copying royalties rests with CPCC, the body that also collects the royalties. This is a role assigned to CPCC by the Copyright Board. The Copyright Board also designates the proportion of total royalties that forms the basis of distributions amongst each of the three basic groups eligible to receive payments: songwriters and publishers, recording artists, and record companies. Like the assignment of responsibility for distribution, these allocations are set down in the private copying tariffs .* From there, CPCC must divide the funds amongst individual copyright holders. Conservatively, one song will trigger as many as 12 payments. Although it has taken similar but bigger organizations in other countries far longer to effect their first distributions, CPCC began making payments early in 2003. In January, CPCC carried out the first of a series of payments being made from the over $28 million in private copying royalties available for distribution from 2000 and 2001. 2003 will also see payment from the additional $26 million available from 2002. CPCC has devised a process that will permit these funds to be distributed fairly amongst tens of thousands of copyright holders. A non-profit corporation run by copyright holders, CPCC withholds only those funds necessary to defray its costs of administration.
    • joot2112, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Thanks for the info. However, I don't trust that "has devised a process that will permit these funds to be distributed fairly". There is no way to distinguish artists who "should be" making money. How would you tell the difference between artists who suck and aren't selling music vs. artists who are great but having copyrights infringed? Probably they base it on sales, in which case they are taxing Average Joe and giving the money to the richest.
    • smacksaw, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1That's only part of it. I've yet to see the numbers on how much revenue is generated, but they pay out an awful lot to support artists who are starting out as well.
    • HHP2K, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Well look at that, only Canadian recording artists and record companies may receive payments.

      And how much of a percentage of music is Canadian.. ?
      • HumanRecall, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Considering Canadian Music artist top the Rock , Pop charts more and more the last 10 yrs and basically everyband out of the 80's and 90's were Canadian much like the comedieans and movie stars....give me a break buddy use you ***** head most stras eithe rit by music , movie or viedo are Canadian just moved to the U.S. A!!!!
    • HHP2K, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Well look at that, only Canadian recording artists and record companies may receive payments.

      And how much of a percentage of music is Canadian.. ?
  • BBCmafia, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16How can people be calling this socialism. This is just the opposite this is corporate welfare
    • PjsPjs, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1yeah that is socialism.
      • Nossie, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1sounds more like communism to me. socialism is what Russia wanted... communism is what they ended up with.
  • beercosoftware, on 10/11/2007, -4/+5Our sales tax here is already 15%. I have been to Ottawa and met some of the ministers. The Canadian govt is probably on par with Mexico as far as corruption is concerned. It's disgusting.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsorship_scandal

    If you have enough money, you can pay the good people of Canada to allow anything it would seem.
    Consider why Conrad Black was not tried here even though his crimes were committed in Toronto.
    • Zippo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Thank goodness that kind of thing never happens in the US.
      • ExaltedDragon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0In the US these things happen, the difference is that scandals come to light more often than not and more people are brought to justice. If the US was a deeply corrupt as Mexico, for example, we would not be the country we are today.
  • DeFex, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6thats great now you buy an mp3 player to listen to non mainstream music because you can not hear it anywhere else (due to radio payola etc), they will pay money to mainstream artists.

    I guess i will just buy it on ebay :)
  • CraigNobbs, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Here's my two cents: As previous court ruling have made P2P file sharing legal in Canada (you can download, but not upload) because of the current levy on blank media (CD, DVD, mini disc, etc), I would imagine that with precedence already set, that should someone be caught with "illegal" music on their "media playing device" that they can legitimately claim that they already compensated the artist via the levy that they paid for when they purchased the device.

    There was an article posted from a news site quite some time back when the ruling was made that had a high ranking employee of CRIA (Canadian version of RIAA) stating that if this was going to be the case that they were going to seriously consider putting their weight behind having the levy removed.

    I have to say that I'm not pleased about the levy in general, as hard drive prices seem to be plummeting, however, I do suppose that if this allows me to download all the music I could possibly want, then perhaps I could see fit to live with it. As long as they don't use one of their original ideas about the levy amount (which would effectively double the cost of any ipod), I suppose adding $20 to a 500GB hard drive is worth 10,000+ songs. =)
  • beercosoftware, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2Buying it on eBay or through another means is probably a good idea.
    The musicians will not see a dime of this that is for sure.

    QST/GST amounts to a 15% sales tax. Our gas here is $5-6 per gallon, and now this.
    They should just get rid of the maple leaf and put the hammer and sickle between the red bars and get it over with.
    I have no idea what they're waiting for personally.

    Read the PDF of the decision and have a good laugh. :(
    • TheRealMisterd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1They should keep the same flag but put a big stamp that says SOLD
  • Morky, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3If this goes into law, Canadians should be allowed to legally download music off the internet for free because the labels are already being compensated by the device tax.
    • waterwheel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Dude, Canadians CAN already download music off the internet for free - for the very reason of this ipod like tax on blank media. We can't upload it legally, but we can download and burn for free, legally.
  • colinnowra, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5Americans from what i've been reading are too self involved. Take care of yourself and only yourself. What is so wrong with everyone paying a tax so that all people can benefit? Say with health care, If i cannot afford to get an operation, what would happen? I'd rather be paying taxes so that in case i ever need an operation i won't have to pay from my pocket. Even if i never have to go visit a hospital i'll be glad to pay the tax so that another person who does need the operation can get it with no worries.

    I'll gladly pay the levy so i or others can share music with no worries of the music industry taking us to court.
    • beercosoftware, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3"I'll gladly pay the levy so i or others can share music with no worries of the music industry taking us to court."

      The 2 are not related, and that's the problem. This tax does not effect litigation in any way. Our ISPs are not giving the info to the RIAA here in Canada, that's what's stopping them. Sheeshhh..
      Holy crap. Canadians have to stop smoking so much dope.

      Please tell me you're not that ignorant???

      PLEASE!
    • clickmyface, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1From where I sit, I don't know a single American who doesnt want a national healthcare system. Your assumption that we are self centered in this regard is foolish. Our politicians are, and thats tough to beat. If you havent noticed our president and our congress are sitting around 20% approval ratings.

      The tax you are defending right now only serves to bring musicians and record companies more money. Are you telling me everyone in your country is OK, and now you support taxes that make rich, greedy people richer? Absurd.
  • crazyboy1121, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3101 Ways the goverment can make money. Number 47...
  • DoShurikn, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Maybe it would be time to get that pirate party rolling in canada to prevent stupidity like that

    http://www.pp-international.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=20
  • HHP2K, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Sent an e-mail to secretariat@cb-cda.gc.ca, though I know it won't go anywhere.

    Hello, my name is Jesse. I am a Canadian Citizen who has recently read about your organization's plan to induce an "iPod" tax on Canadian citizens.

    This tax would allow the Canadian government to raise the price on digital audio players (mp3 players) simply because they are used to play music. The government spins this as a means to compensate "artists" who are - by assumption - being "deprived" of the royalties they deserve when people "steal" music from online P2P sharing programs.

    How can we count the ways in which this tax is by and large a bad and wrong idea?

    - The idea of artists losing money in royalties over "stolen" music has proven itself to be false numerous times.

    - The tax is all-encompassing and vague. How does the government know I'm using it as an audio player? How can they assume where I'm getting my music from and whether I paid for it or not?

    - The people who you are taking this money from have no idea exactly how these "artists" are being compensated with this money. If you can tax me for simply having an audio player, how will you find out what artists I had on the player so that they could be paid accordingly? If you were truly doing this "for the artists", then different approaches would have been considered which concentrate deeper on funding individual artists based on heavier research and customer feedback.

    Overall, this tax is a sad attempt by the Copyright board to make itself seem like it actually cares about the money that artists are (in actuality NOT) losing when people share music through file sharing programs. It underlines a common theme of lawmakers being undereducated to the inner workings of the internet and networking, and not caring enough about what they enact laws over to actually research the subject and take a more reasonable and smarter approach. The tax is much too vague to ever be effective, and the methods of paying out royalties to artists via a tax on anything that can hold audio is the wrong approach. What it shows is that the music industry is getting desperate to have money funded into it, and now must come up with other ways of sapping money out of the general public, even if the means are unfair and nonsensical.

    Look at the RIAA - Their primary source of income right now is through launching lawsuits against everyone under the sun.

    Overall, this is not something I expected out of Canada. I've already read the reports, and I know this will fall on deaf ears. But just know this: enacting this tax would generate a lot of resistance with the consumers and would not make this board look very good at all.

    That is all.
    • megashaun, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1The sad thing is although you've raised excellent points, they've been doing this for years already with CD-Rs and cassette tapes. They're going to be doing this for everything that's capable of storing/recording music for a long time.
  • rigogibson850, on 10/11/2007, -2/+0Oh those silly Canadians, what are they thinkin' eh? Next will come the poopin' tax for buying toilet paper, as the plumbers deserve to get paid, and then the grease monkey tax for buying a car cause the mechanics deserve to get paid.... good move Canadians, set a good example for our government to follow. (some where in Washington DC, George W. Bush is taking notes)
  • beercosoftware, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1HHP2K,

    If you want to take it a step further, buy a music player on ebay. Do not pay the tax, let them know you didn't and will never pay the tax on it, and have them fine you for it.
    Then use a public funded attorney, assuming you're earning a modest income, and take it all the way to the supreme court and get it ruled illegal.

    I don't qualify for a public attorney, otherwise it would be a nice project to take on.

    http://www.legalaid.on.ca/en/getting/
    • HHP2K, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I would do it if I had the money and more know-how, but you know what they say about college students. :P
  • karinneandressa, on 10/11/2007, -3/+0I not yet bought my Ipod, but I want to buy soon. I wait that until there it has low one in the prices and he does not have plus no error.

    Karinne
    http://www.blogando.info/
  • maxtangent, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Well, since carbon dioxide has been ruled a cause of global warming and we all exhale it, I am waiting for the tax on breathing too.
  • pimpdown, on 10/11/2007, -5/+2Socialism is for Pussies. Straight up! Maybe we will cross paths when they come here for I-Pods and we go there for health care.
    The reason it is socialism is because it is government oppression for the " greater good".
  • flickr, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Ars, Ars, Ars... Canadians cannot be taxed on Zunes as Zunes aren't for sale in Canada.
    • HHP2K, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2what? Yes they are.
      • aristotle0dude, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Where? I cannot find them on either the Bestbuy.ca or futureshop.ca sites. They are not officially available in Canada. Not that I would buy one anyway.
        • encrypter, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0They sell them at the Tigerdirect stores here in the GTA.
          • aristotle0dude, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Well since they are not available in any brick and mortar stores in Canada either off or online, they are not officially available in Canada. I'm sure you can order from the US and purchase it grey market but don't expect and warrant coverage if it should break.
    • PjsPjs, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1There is lot of stuff not available for sale in Canada.
      Just check out the Canadian iTunes store.
  • chicoer2001, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Downloading in Canada is legal. A tax is far better than a legal bill with the CRIA. In California there's a tax on TVs for the disposal of the packaging.
    • teesix, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0We pay an environmental levy on electronics as well.
    • HHP2K, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1It's not legal, but the ISPs aren't doing anything about it (and aren't responding to the RIAA). Downloading is legal, but uploading is not, because that's the "sharing" part.
  • ShyGuy91284, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Ok... Let's do a Movie Tax, TV Tax, Game Tax, and Productivity Software Tax for computers also since they can be used to pirate all those (sarcasm). Am I forgetting anything?
  • schoate09, on 10/11/2007, -5/+1God bless America.
  • AlanJV, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Las time I checked, the artist was compensated when the consumer pays for the digital file. The artist had nothing to do with the creation of the iPod (or digital device), and therefore, doesn't deserve to make any money from it.
  • prestige, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Am I the only Canadian who is not bothered by this in the least? It's a small price to pay for the freedom to be a music pirate whore.
    • HHP2K, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I don't know where you all are getting this, but as someone else mentioned above, this tax will not affect litigation in the least. They're simply doing one thing to reimburse the artists (or so they say). This isn't the prosecution part of "fighting" illegal downloads.
  • DestroyFascism, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Next time you buy an iPod don't forget to pay the Gambino's on the way out, you know, Protection!
  • PjsPjs, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Well there are two problems.
    This will be an embedded tax, on top of which you will have to pay sales tax.
    The more diverse the taxes levied the harder it becomes to discuss lowering taxes.
  • blacklilyninja, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2the only problem with this tax is no one is sure if the levy is properly distributed to the artists. Plus the money it costs to maintain the infrastructure around the tax usually ends up costing more than they collect. i.e. the people running the program get paid more than the artists. I don't mind them doing this at all. But who and how do we determine who gets their hand in the bucket? HOW does it get distributed?
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