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82 Comments
- spworm, on 11/10/2009, -10/+23Summary: no.
Move along. - jp2535, on 11/10/2009, -6/+19No and why would we want a closed off company like apple controlling the top in the first place.
- inactive, on 11/10/2009, -7/+18Apple computers: Overpriced PC's with a shiny apple sticker.
- mrsurfboard, on 11/10/2009, -1/+10I don't know about that. The people in those laptop hunters ads came across as pretty stupid.
- michaelpinto, on 11/10/2009, -1/+8Once upon a time at the dawn of the PC era one might have asked if Microsoft could be as valuable as Apple. Although I honestly think that in terms of real value that Google is the company to beat.
- cocopuffz, on 11/10/2009, -1/+7Since you really can't run OSX on anything other than apple hardware (Legally), the answer is no. If all you wanna do is edit some movies, make music, and whatever else Mac people do (I know many program on the platform.. I'm just being an ass..) then Apple is the perfect platform. If you want to build custom apps and entire platforms of your own on the choice of your own hardware the PC (Win, Linux, BeOs, etc etc..) is the way to go.
Can you imagine a large company basing it's entire future on a closed system like that of Apple? Thousands of laptops, servers and devices in a company that have to remain compliant to whatever Apple decides? Apple goes "We don't want to support powerPc anymore. sorry. We don't want to support AMD cpus'... sorry. Oh.. We hate intel now. In the next update, we'll only support the CPU's of that company we bought a few months ago. Don't worry. We'll be expecting your order of our new, overpriced hardware any minute now. We'll make sure you get it to you ASAP. " etc etc...
I think it would be fine if Apple share grew more in the corporate environment. They make great products. I just wouldn't trust them enough with important things unless they open up. Windows is nice & predictable. Linux is open and is what you make of it.
Just look at the recent update of OSX that kills support for the Atom processor. They are MAD! MAD with power! bwhahah... <--lil dramatic .. lol - kreatre2007, on 11/10/2009, -2/+8That has nothing to do with it. In fact, Apple struck a deal with HP in 2004 for HP to rebrand and sell the iPod. The idea was that HP had a lot more "revenue channels". The venture was a failure. No one wanted an HP iPod. HP is not associated with innovation, and coolness. Apple is. It seems to me that Apple has enough outlets right now. They're on the web. They have brick and mortar stores. They have a lot of distribution and sales partners. They're definitely set to overtake Microsoft. Microsoft's own success is what is beginning to way them down. Large businesses will still stick with XP for as long as possible. That can't be a good thing for Microsoft.
- blapierre, on 11/10/2009, -1/+7Wow, they "already" beat a company that was founded 22 years after them? Great job Apple!
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 11/10/2009, -4/+8Microsoft isn't exactly the biggest proponent of open standards and software, but they're still a hell of a lot better than Apple.
At least if you have phone with Windows Mobile no one tries to tell you what software you can and can't run.
At least you can run Windows on whatever piece of hardware you want. - mobilebond, on 11/10/2009, -8/+12No it can't! Not enough diversification of revenue channels.
- JohnnySoftware, on 11/10/2009, -0/+4Re: "they are still making 10x the $"
Not even close to it. Revenue last quarter was $13B (AAPL) and $46B (MSFT) so that is about three-and-a-half times more, not 10x more.
Microsoft's profits and revenue have been in a downward trend for quite some time this year while Apple's have been rising.
Plus, Apple is introducing "something" next year. Given their track record on new products and services throughout this decade that could make them a lot more money, although no one can say until it is out and selling - whatever it is.
Look at how much cash each company has $23.5B and $33.5B. About $11B difference between the two companies (so MSFT _appears_ to have 1.4x as much as APPL). But, Apple has zero debt and Microsoft has $6B in debt. If you subtract Microsoft's dept from is cash then the difference between the two firms is more like only $4B, making MSFT only 1.1x "richer" than AAPL.
So they companies have pretty close to as much money as one another right now.
Considering Microsoft's products are in dire need of overhauls to get them under control and Apple's are not, Microsoft seems to be in the worser position. Yes, they make more revenue but for heaven's sake look at the size of the two companies' payroll. Microsoft has 90 thousand employees. Apple has nine-tenths fewer employees than Microsoft. The revenue-per-head at AAPL is staggeringly higher than it is at MSFT.
Microsoft products require more daily TLC than Apple's do too. Apple's products are not swamped with malware. Microsoft's platforms require armies of people (quite possibly literally) to detect, analyze, write block/find/removal algorithms/signatures for - and then test, distribute, acquire, and update - constantly. Seems to be fighting a losing battle, too. Viruses just spread easier each year on Windows. Aside from whether that is bad or not, it makes the product more expensive for customers now and that is probably going to cost Microsoft on its balance sheet a little down the road.
It looks like the two companies are not that far apart financially, where it counts. In terms of value of the product they ship you have to look at: (a) what it does that you need it to do for you, and (b) what you don't want it to do to you. - mkriss5681, on 11/10/2009, -0/+4Microsoft killed IBM because IBM lacked the vision that software sales could kill hardware. IBM never imagined a software company would dominate, when they were on top.
Google threatens Microsoft for the same reason. Microsoft was late getting into the internet game in the late nineties. Microsoft didn't see the internet as a replacement for software. Google has really filled that void. Even now, what major presences do Microsoft have online. Hotmail? MSN? It took them up to this year to make a good search engine. It took up to IE7 do finally get a decent Microsoft browser.
In the long run, Microsoft will be fine, but they really missed the boat on the internet. The next chapter is how well Google does with the cell OS. - blapierre, on 11/10/2009, -0/+3I think they were talking about market capitalization.
Current cap of IBM is: 165.51B
Current cap of MSFT is: 257.41B
Microsoft has overtaken IBM.
Although over the last 10 years, MSFT stock is down about 40% while IBM stock is up about 40%. - JohnnySoftware, on 11/10/2009, -0/+3Except there is no Apple sticker on Macs and you can buy a whole OS X enterprise server for your company for only $999 and plug it in. Software and computer system included. Unlimited number of users.
Microsoft Windows server: all you get are CDs. Toss them to the kid with the MSE training you paid for to whom you pay $70K/year salary. Then, pray that everything turns out okay - and run. If it does not turn out okay, expect to pay $41,000 per data theft incident, according to this year's statistics.
Both servers are based on the same serveer & protocol standards. Their commodities. One of them is very overpriced to begin with and requires very expensive life support/environment to bring up and keep alive. - mkriss5681, on 11/10/2009, -2/+5Microsoft might be closed source as well but talk to a software developer and ask them what platform is the easiest for writing code. Windows and the Visual Studio suite is king. Apple doesn't even come close.
- cocopuffz, on 11/10/2009, -1/+4That's only in the consumer market though. What about all the ATM's, Point of sales units, Diagnostic devices, Mission Critical security hardware in companies all over the world that can't run OSX because of the lack of hardware compatibility.
Apple = well dressed employee
Windows = Boss/Owner
Linux = Basement admin guy that gets no love, but hold the company hostage with the Admin password lol. - bhny, on 11/10/2009, -0/+2They are talking about market cap, not market share. Apple was bigger than MS back in the 80's and 90's without a huge market share. It will probably happen again.
- Elranzer, on 11/10/2009, -2/+4Apple's market consists of a SMALL piece of the consumer market. Microsoft has the remaining larger share of the consumer market, and OWNS the entire business/enterprise market (as well as the healthcare market and majority of education market, which use to be a big market for Apple).
So in short: no. - smartassCanuck, on 11/10/2009, -0/+2Has the PC????
Mouse, monitor, keyboard... no real innovation on the PC front either... - NSResponder, on 11/10/2009, -0/+2"Dude doesn't know what he's talking about."
Care to point out some mistake I've made? MSFT's own financial reports show that they're pissing billions of dollars of their shareholders' money away on failures like the Xbox and the Zune.
"signing your posts... we don't do that here."
We?
I sign my posts. Go cope.
-jcr - jj101, on 11/10/2009, -0/+2I have no buyers remorse - I have a black macbook that I've used for three years now. At a cost of £1k thats under £350/year for something I use it everyday. Less than a pound a day. Its nothing. On top of that I have never had a hardware/software issue with it and have not yet got a reason to upgrade.
I'm sure there are some great PCs out there and I'm equally sure you pay for them too. Yes you can build one yourself for cheaper but I can't be bothered with that - the time is worth more than the cost saving. Frankly I'd pay more anyway just for the OS, although I hear Windows 7 is pretty good too. - yunus, on 11/10/2009, -1/+3The article should be can Google top Microsoft. Apple is already maxing out, they will reach a growth plateau soon if they don't come up with some ground breaking products. Google on the other hand is just starting to break into the cell phone market and could dominate it in a few years.
- TexMexRex, on 11/10/2009, -0/+2Apple maybe topping out, but don't count MS out, they continue to suck like there is no tomorrow. They portray their own customers as retards in their adds. The PC guy in Apple adds is a genius compared to the people MS has in theirs.
- gtluke, on 11/10/2009, -4/+6You need to be valuable to business. Right now apple is only valuable to kids.
- Elranzer, on 11/10/2009, -2/+4Dude, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. You don't even know the difference between open standards vs open-source.
In short: open source ≠ open source
Windows: Can be installed on any compatible platform
Mac OS: Only on Apple's walled garden hardware
Windows Mobile: Any app downloaded or purchased from anywhere can be used
iPhone OS: Apps must be approved by and purchased from Apple
Microsoft: Open standards
Apple: Closed walled garden
Apple only uses open source software to save them some effort because they don't have the resources and coding talent that Microsoft has. They're not holy bastions of open standards. - smack1700, on 11/10/2009, -4/+6Every time I see an Apple commercial with that douchebag with his hands in his pockets being all smug I want to punch him in the face.
That is all. - SpeedSteamBoat, on 11/10/2009, -0/+2@JohnnySoftware:
You're actually advocating corporate control of consumer hardware?
Disgusting.
You can be secure without a corporate nanny. I and millions of other PC users do it every day.
I think it's ironic that you point to a backdoor in jailbreak as evidence of Apple doing the right thing, since Apples draconian policies are the only reason jailbreak ever existed to begin with. If they're so afraid that jailbreaking software will make people vulnerable to malware then why not just let people run the software they want on their phones to begin with?
Windows Mobile is Windows, so you've really said nothing. Yeah, Windows has its vulnerabilities. That's not news.
You seem to believe two things:
1) A company "vetting" software will protect from malware (it won't).
2) A company "vetting" software is the only way to be secure (it's not)
I'm perfectly capable of choosing which software to run and what not to run all by myself. I don't need Steve Jobs or Bill Gates to give me a nod based their own corporate policy.
Honestly, the most ridiculous part of your whole argument is that you honestly seem to believe the restrictions placed on the iPhone have anything to do with a sincere concern for security from Apple. It has virtually nothing to do with it. It's all about control. Apple rejects applications all the time for various corporate interest reasons, namely when they provide functionality which Apple would like to monopolize or just keep out of the hands of their customers. VOIP software and some emulators are good examples.
Apple isn't looking out for you. They are looking out for their bottom line. - BrBybee, on 11/10/2009, -0/+2@ kreatre2007:
You sound like a little ***** kid whining. "at least my dad can do this. at least my dad can do that...blah blah blah"
Quit trying to justify your buyers remorse. - NSResponder, on 11/10/2009, -0/+2"unbelievably complex, convoluted file format"
You know, the really sad thing is that their original format (RTF) is pretty well designed, and easily backwards compatible (just ignore the tags you don't implement). Apparently, someone at MS decided that interoperability was a bad thing.
-jcr - luvboobs, on 11/10/2009, -0/+2Those are yearly (for IBM) and quarterly (for MS) numbers man! And most valuable is a relative terms anyways. And in terms of total valuation of the company by investors Microsoft is way ahead (http://www.google.com/finance?catid=us-66529330&am ... Cap).
- luvboobs, on 11/10/2009, -1/+3Of course THEY say that they have great products in the pipeline doh. Apple only talks in superlatives, didnt you know?
- blapierre, on 11/10/2009, -1/+2What's that saying? "There's a sucker born every minute"?
- wilhoitm, on 11/10/2009, -1/+2MSFT is in trouble. Even with the success of Windows 7 the Web changes everything, software now is mostly free. It is all about the browser! APPL and GOOG are fierce competitors and there is a lack of imagination at MSFT, Ballmer is not Bill Gates!
- Elranzer, on 11/10/2009, -0/+1Amount of employees is still a factor of profit. Way ahead of you.
- BrBybee, on 11/10/2009, -1/+2Prime example of a fanboy. look at the rest of his comments. (Kreatre2007)
- wilhoitm, on 11/10/2009, -0/+1I think sadly Microsoft is at a plateau. Name a new product area that Microsoft has gone into in the last 5 years besides Bing. Name one!
- JohnnySoftware, on 11/10/2009, -0/+1Apple is hardly locked in a life or death struggle with Google.
Apple's Safari web browser sends searches to Google conveniently for users who want to do that. Both companies benefit. Apple took an open source web browser application and created a reusable open source engine that runs on Macs, Windows, and consumer electronics.
WebKit from Apple is the heart of the web browser inside: Safari browser, iPhone cell phone, Google Chrome browser, Google Android phones, and Nokia cell phones.
Apple and Google get along. - jj101, on 11/10/2009, -1/+2Define overpriced. People buy them right - just look at the sales figures. Pricing is function of demand. Should they price them cheaper and if so, why?
Mercedes cars: Overpriced Fords with a shiny Mercedes Logo? - burbankmarc, on 11/10/2009, -0/+1My mistake, I posted this real fast this morning before work, I meant to multiply it out.
- TexMexRex, on 11/10/2009, -0/+1MS latest round of adds portray "everyman" bashing Vista. My favorite is the small girl in the reasturant with a giant 17 inch grey laptop. It has stickers on it to make it cute! She explains that she is no longer afraid her compouter will crash with "all kinds of stuff going on" She seems to have no idea why all that stuff is going on, and then wonders: I asked MS to fix something and they did!, Maybe i should ask them to pay my rent!
- JohnnySoftware, on 11/10/2009, -0/+1One reason MS-Windows has so much malware is a lack of investment and careful attention to details by Microsoft. The fact they are taking profits from MS Windows and MS Words sales and plowing them into trying to wrangle ad revenue from Google shows how they are not going to be destroyed by Google's competition.
They're being destroyed by themselves. Google is just letting them do it. ;-)
Microsoft is just unhappy because they are using non-Microsoft products and being wildly successful.
Microsoft has been digging around in the dirt for 5 years without much to show for its search investment.
If Google had put up a web-wide ad service and search engine that frequently exposed you to malware, people would not be much interested in it. If Google had taken a simple, widely used web browser and added to it lots of ways to get infected by malware, people would not be much interested.
Microsoft does not have problems because of Google. Microsoft has problems because of Microsoft. Microsoft needs to take over Microsoft. - cocopuffz, on 11/17/2009, -0/+1Spoke too soon i guess? They did end up killing the atom. My point wasn't about them killing the atom so much as them killing hardware support randomly, out of the blue. That's not a platform a company can build their infrastructure on, let alone build products on.
Personally I think they're plenty happy at 10-15%. They seem to be doing fine. - Elranzer, on 11/10/2009, -0/+1Apple is a "luxury" brand the same way that Banana Republic is (hint: it's not... you idiots are just buying overpriced Gap clothing).
- JohnnySoftware, on 11/10/2009, -1/+2HP is not really a consumer electronics company. They started out in electronics test equipment and medical equipment.
They branched out into calculators back in the 1970s. From there, it was natural to start making computers, which they did. Everyone knows that the first Apple computer, Apple's first product - the Apple II - was invented at HP by a lone engineer, Steve Jobs, who was working in their calculator division.
Ironically, and portentously, HP declined his probably passionate pleas to produce and promote it as an HP product. However, his request fell on deaf ears as not an "HP" kind of product. So as a consolation, Steve Wozniak was given a signed waiver which authorized him to do anything with the Apple that he wanted.
Wozniak joined forces with his boyhood friend Steve Jobs and created the Apple company, which was named by Jobs. Jobs went on to lead the creation of Macintosh, iPod, iPhone, iTunes, the iTunes music store, and take Pixar from a company that made 30-second commercial spots to a full length feature film studio that he sold to Disney for $7 or $8 billion dollars - and whose board of directors he now sits on.
HP went on to create a lot of computer printers and make IBM PC clones - both of which are just commodities. Hardly unique, iconic consumer electronic products. - kmcgrady90, on 11/14/2009, -0/+1Most of the comments seem to assume Apple needs more market share than MS to be the most valuable tech company. The article is about how, in a few years, they may have a higher market cap.
- Elranzer, on 11/10/2009, -0/+1Learn the difference between revenue and profits.
- TexMexRex, on 11/10/2009, -0/+1Totally agree. It's the software that makes a difference. The bottom line, their OSX does not suck Donkey Balls like Windows. Unfortunately you have to buy their hardware.
- yunus, on 11/10/2009, -0/+1Microsoft may be at a plateau. But they are sitting at a really high plateau, I am suggesting that Apple will not continue its growth as the market gets saturated with its products. It will continue to be profitable but not grow as much.
- smartassCanuck, on 11/10/2009, -0/+1Of course then they'd have to provide drivers for every imaginable piece of hardware that someone could use the software with, which would drive up costs and start giving the impression that OSX is, in-fact kinda flaky (like installing windows on a custom built PC, it'll work sometimes, and others you'll have to troubleshoot problems for months.)
I like how people use the fact that both companies (MS and Apple) have different business models as being better or worse.. The fact is they're simply different. Some people love the way you can buy a mac, turn it on and just use it. While others prefer how you can run endless software on a Windows machine, and don't mind setting it up and installing everything they'd want to use.
In the end it's just an OPINION, I've always enjoyed how people look at this as a religious debate in that if you don't believe the same thing they do you're OBVIOUSLY wrong. -
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