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121 Comments
- garrettmurray, on 10/12/2007, -3/+77(I wrote this post, I am the developer in question.)
@fishbert: If you notice, in the post, I wrote that it is my fault for writing that loophole in. My complaint was the way in which Mr. Ball acted in the situation, which I feel was very unprofessional.
I agree with you--the upside is that I retain rights to xPad, and the further upside is that I made it freeware and will release the source.
I'd also like to clarify that I wasn't screwed out of the full amount, but $4,140 USD instead. He made the first two payments. - garrettmurray, on 10/12/2007, -2/+68Whoa... that was even more unprofessional. That's NOT what we decided. Here are the contents of our messages:
Brian Ball: Do you think that's an honest assessment of what happened?
Garrett Murray: as i just wrote in a comment on digg, i think it's interesting that your method of dealing with this is to call me a liar.
Garrett Murray: my post is 100% accurate, and you know it.
Garrett Murray: and, if you want, i can post the contract, the emails, the instant messages as well.
Brian Ball: I didn't call you a liar did I
Garrett Murray: you wrote: "If the truth were as juicy as how you're positioning this"
Brian Ball: Garrett, the only thing you need to know is this.
Garrett Murray: which means that i've lied or misrepresented the things that occurred
Garrett Murray: which i did not
Brian Ball: When we were negotiating the deal..
Brian Ball: I didn't see the loophole as you being fair if I couldn't pay.
Garrett Murray: i am not a stupid person. i would not write ***** and pass it as fact. i have nothing to gain from all this. i'm not selling anything, i'm not asking for anything.
Brian Ball: I saw that as integral to the deal in itself.
Brian Ball: that is, I saw it as, if I can't make this deal work, then I have a way out.
Garrett Murray: people have asked me what happened and told me i should write about it, so i have. xpad customers have complained about things and i have to set that straight. i did right by them for 3 years and then i messed up by letting this whole thing happen
Brian Ball: My intention was never to sell it at retail and market it that way.
5:35 PM
Brian Ball: It was contingent on making it something I could bundle with other developer's apps.
Brian Ball: From there, it would be like a free add-on.
Garrett Murray: i put that clause in in the last (or second to last) version of the contract, and i didn't do it for your benefit. i'm sorry the way you took it was that it was a simple out for you if things didn't go well
Garrett Murray: as i wrote in the post, that was my mistake.
Brian Ball: And, I figured that since i was on a payment plan, I had some breathing room to make it happen.
Garrett Murray: and you didn't bring it up during negotiations because i think you saw your out and let it pass quietly. which is fine. the cards fell where they did.
Brian Ball: I certainly couldn't have done the deal if I had to pay $5,000
Brian Ball: cash for the app
Garrett Murray: well, that's called being underhanded, brian
Brian Ball: I could have had a new app coded for that.
Brian Ball: no it's not
Garrett Murray: yeah--you wish. good luck finding the developer who builds an app for 5k and gives it to you.
Brian Ball: I think you made some assumptions that just weren't accurate
Garrett Murray: when you find them, tell them apple is hiring suckers as well
Brian Ball: why are you bitter about this?
Garrett Murray: look, i have the right to represent the situation accurately and explain to my loyal customers what i did that might have caused them issues
Garrett Murray: i did that
Garrett Murray: and i did it factually.
Brian Ball: I didn't see you mention the money you got up front
Garrett Murray: without libel and without blowing things out of proportion
Brian Ball: wasn't it like $900 or something
Garrett Murray: i DID mention it, actually
Garrett Murray: PERHAPS YOU SHOULD READ THE POST FIRST
Brian Ball: I don't see it on Digg
Brian Ball: also, on your post, you said I only made 1 payment
Brian Ball: that's not accurate
Garrett Murray: i didn't post that digg hit, i didn't excerpt it
Garrett Murray: someone else did
Garrett Murray: yes, it is accurate
Garrett Murray: you made the initial down payment
Garrett Murray: of 920
Brian Ball: the way I see it, you made a lot more on xPad through this deal than you would have without it.
Garrett Murray: and then 1 more payment
Brian Ball: no, I made at least 2 payments
Garrett Murray: and that's what the post says
Brian Ball: after the initial
Garrett Murray: no, you didn't.
Garrett Murray: you defaulted on october 10, after making the september payment (the first payment)
Brian Ball: and, I wasn't "selling" xpad during that time of getting stuff back to you.
Brian Ball: Sales were zero
Garrett Murray: i don't appreciate you alleging that i'm lying when you don't even remember what happened and haven't even read the post.
Garrett Murray: doesn't matter--people who had xpad and wanted to buy it hit YOUR site
5:40 PM
Brian Ball: Did you digg this?
Garrett Murray: NO
Garrett Murray: i have not dugg it. i made comments on an existing digg item that someone posted.
Garrett Murray: to be honest, i wasn't even prepared for the amount of feedback it's been sending
Garrett Murray: it crashed my server, all that stuff
Brian Ball: well, the title Brian Ball of macZOT screws developer out of $5,520.. is that accurate?
Garrett Murray: no, it isn't. and i WROTE THAT IN MY FIRST COMMENT
Garrett Murray: brian, i'm sorry, but if you're not even going to read things and then get angry about them, i can't waste this time
Brian Ball: Garrett, I'm not really angry at all.
Garrett Murray: see my first comment: http://digg.com/apple/Brian_Ball_of_macZOT_screws_developer_out_of_5_520#c4567766
Brian Ball: I don't feel like I did anything wrong in this.
Garrett Murray: that's fine. i'm not asking for anything from you.
Brian Ball: I wanted to make it work.
Brian Ball: It didn't.
Brian Ball: That's really all there is to it.
Garrett Murray: again: i had customers for 3 years, i made a decision that affected them, i apologized for it and told everyone what happened.
Brian Ball: great.
Brian Ball: they deserve that
Brian Ball: if I can learn something from this, I'd be pleased.
Brian Ball: if we were to do it over again, how could you see us working it out so that it was a win-win for both of us.. assuming I still couldn't invest the $460 / month on something that wasn't selling.
5:45 PM
Garrett Murray: brian, i wouldn't have sold it to you if you were more honest with me. saying you couldn't invest the monthly amount means you were never planning on paying it. which means signing that contract was pointless and you intended to default on it
Garrett Murray: i don't appreciate that kind of tactic
Brian Ball: no no
Brian Ball: I didn't go into the deal with the intention of defaulting
Brian Ball: Garrett
Brian Ball: look at your numbers prior to our deal
Brian Ball: those numbers certainly didn't justify the price we agreed on.
Garrett Murray: i gave you those numbers BEFORE you signed
Brian Ball: the fact that we both signed means we agreed. I get that.
Garrett Murray: do you understand who insane you sound to say that they didn't justify the price we agreed on??
Brian Ball: But don't you?
Garrett Murray: you LOOKED AT THEM and THEN sign A CONTRACT
Garrett Murray: i don't get what's confusing
Brian Ball: yes, and so did you.
Brian Ball: In fact, you wrote the contract.
Garrett Murray: if someone said to you, this car has only three wheels, and then you bought it, and then you took it back and said i'm not paying for this, it only has three wheels, people would laugh in your face
Brian Ball: or at least you sent it.
Garrett Murray: you knew what you were buying
Brian Ball: yes, and if someone said.. "but if you can't make the payment, I want the car back."
Brian Ball: actually, "If you don't make the payment, I want the car back."
Brian Ball: you presented the contract.
Brian Ball: that clause made it doable in my mind.
Brian Ball: I can't assume what you meant by it.
Brian Ball: it's just English
Garrett Murray: yes, yes, i get it. i understand that i shouldn't have given you the out. i appreciate the mistake i made. i wrote in the post that it was my fault for doing that.
Garrett Murray: but i also wrote that you acted extremely unprofessionally. you weren't upfront about your intentions, you ignored my requests and invoices, you didn't pay after 10 days into a month, etc
Garrett Murray: you acted unprofessionally and i didn't appreciate it.
5:50 PM
Brian Ball: well, if there was anything unprofessional about it, I was simply dealing with a situation that could have gone either way.
Garrett Murray: and i take offense that you think i should be happy with the 1300 because it's more than xpad was selling. that's not an argument--i wasn't actively selling xpad anyway so there's no comparison to be made.
Brian Ball: if you weren't actively selling xPad, then why wouldn't the money you made be welcome?
Brian Ball: We sold it on macZOT and you made $225, then a down of $920, and then a payment of $460
Brian Ball: $1625
Brian Ball: so you're right, only one $460 payment
Garrett Murray: i know i'm right. i confirmed details before i posted, i'm not a jerk
Brian Ball: I guess I am then.
Garrett Murray: the point of this is that you're saying "any money is good money"
Garrett Murray: which isn't the case
Garrett Murray: i wasn't look for just some amount of money
Garrett Murray: i worked my ass off on that app, and i didn't want to just sell it for whatever i got and then hope for the best
Brian Ball: I think the bottom line for me is that I had good intentions.
Garrett Murray: i made a mistake selling it to you, and i take the blame for that
Garrett Murray: and i made a mistake making it easy for you to default
Brian Ball: right, and equally, I made a mistake buying it.
Garrett Murray: and i take the blame for that too
Garrett Murray: but you made the mistake of buying something your couldn't afford and saying you could, and for acting unprofessional about it as well
Brian Ball: so two guys make a mistake, on a smallish scale. Isn't that something that happens daily?
5:55 PM
Brian Ball: it wasn't something I could afford.. it was more like the ship went in a different direction and xPad didn't make sense anymore.
Brian Ball: once i got clear on that, that's when we decided to give it back.
Brian Ball: prior to that, I was really trying to find a way to make it work.. during that time of decision is what you experienced as delay. My apologies.
Brian Ball: "He does indeed still have all the source materials, including the app itself, the code generation app, the website originals and the user list."
6:00 PM
Brian Ball: what does that mean I still have them?
Garrett Murray: apology accepted.
Garrett Murray: well, you do. there's nothing that can be done about that.
Brian Ball: technically, I probably do.
Brian Ball: backed up or whatever
Brian Ball: you don't think I'm going to try building a text editor from it though, do you?
Garrett Murray: i clarified that in a comment a few moments ago
Garrett Murray: refresh
Garrett Murray: i have to run. i wish this whole thing hadn't turned out this way. i wish you success in the future and hold no grudges (honestly). i just had to write that stuff because i felt it was necessary.
6:05 PM
Brian Ball: okay.. fair enough. I don't hold any grudges either. Love that we get to learn about life in such an interestingly "read dugg" way. - williamw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+41I too have been deceived by Brian Ball. A few months back I was attempting to get some part time work with something mac related, mainly support or something along those lines. I was put in contact with Brian, I thought macZOT was cool and thought he would be a good option, he also works with AppZapper. I started chatting with him, asking if he needed any help with any of his current projects. He wasn't totally clear if they had any work for me or not. Brian got me to a couple sample tests (writing list of the top apple bloggers, how would I improve macZOT, etc) after those he told me as a final test I was to take the top 100 "suggest-a-zots" apps, go to easch one of the sites and get the name of the developer, a contact email (not on most apps sites, only support emails). For about 70% of the emails I had to spend a couple minutes digging through sites, contact forms,and domain registar info. To do the whole list took about 5/6 hours of slow annoying work, and I was under the impression that I would be getting some work after all this.
I finally finish and send it off to him. The first thing he does is scrutinize me for not using PageMaker (Some gross app for offices). After that he didn't say anything else, so I aked him whether he had a place for me now that I'd done some work for him. This is where he pissed me off, he said "I was under the impression that I was coaching you" he then unloaded some pyramid scheme crap (Step 1: Visualize the objective blah....).
I seriously advise people to never work with Brian. - garrettmurray, on 10/12/2007, -1/+39If you'll notice, lisaPT, I DIDN'T CREATE THIS DIGG POST. So I didn't create the title, or the excerpt. I don't appreciate you yelling at me and calling me a jerk when you're not even sure what you're responding to. Good day to you as well.
You'll also notice, if you read this comment trail, that I CORRECTED the headline in a comment. My first comment, actually. Please read before you post. Thanks. - zforrester, on 10/12/2007, -0/+35dude, thanks for making it freeware, that's totally awesome
- garrettmurray, on 10/12/2007, -1/+34@ideabrian: I find it interesting that you're alleging this isn't true. I wrote facts only and I have emails, contracts and instant message logs to back it up. I don't appreciate a statement that makes it sound like I've sensationalized. My post was succinct and to the point and was completely accurate. I haven't "positioned" anything and you know that.
- garrettmurray, on 10/12/2007, -1/+34@TugsMcgroin (which, by the way, is one of the best usernames I've ever heard): It's not worth it and it's not really about the money in the long run. $5k isn't a ton of money and it stinks that this all happened, but this is more about making people aware and moving forward.
I'm glad people still want to use xPad, and I was happy to make it freeware. I hope that releasing the source will get some people interested in adding to it--I still think it's a great app but it's in need of an update and I think the community can do good things with it. - UGM2099, on 10/12/2007, -4/+35Beware the wrath of Digg. This could get ugly.
- nezson, on 10/12/2007, -5/+34This *should* get ugly.
- virtualball, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30Dude, what's your problem? He was scred out of 4000-some dollars and all you can say is "typical mac fanatic?" This has nothing to do with Apple/Mac besides it is a program.
Typical Mac Hater - Frabjous, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26Ugh. I feel slimy just reading that. How does any decent person justify that sort of behavior?
I've bought things from MacZOT before, but that's not happening again. - gaoshan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25MacZot's reputation has already been tarnished by this. I know I won't deal with them again.
- phong, on 10/12/2007, -0/+23I just wanted to get this out.
I personally do not know Garrett. However, over the years, I have read snippets of his blog.
Earlier, when I said that he was a good guy . . . he is, seriously.
I know that he is a very strong advocate/supporter for the National Multiple Sclerosis Society. Through giving out Gmail accounts back in the day, and with his apps, he was able to get people to donate and raise hundreds and hundreds of dollars (perhaps well over a thousand) for the National MS Society, helping fund research in order to help people who has MS.
So get xPad or SimpleLog (his web app) and donate. Click on his ads also.
Unfortunately, I have a copy of AppZapper on my Mac and everytime I go to the about box, I see Brian Ball's name.
I have no right to judge or call Brian a jerk. But from what I have seen (literally, especially the IM messages), the way that Brian carried himself is very sad. I know that there were talks about the legitimacy of MacZot in respects to supporting software developers. I don't know about that anymore.
I'd say . . . Brian should write a $4,140 check to the National MS Society, and refund people their money back when it was sold under the ownership of MacZot.
I hope it all works out. - fishbert, on 10/12/2007, -15/+37No, it shouldn't.
"If the buyer fails to make a payment after 90 days, this contract shall be void and terminated at which point all rights and license will revert back to the seller. At such a time, the buyer will no longer have rights to publish or use any of the materials covered in this contract. No refund will be made to the buyer."
The developer may feel he was screwed, and I do sympathize... but this so-called "loophole" is stated in simple, clear English (no legal translator required). I chalk it up to naivety regarding contracted work. The up-side of this story is that the developer retains the rights to xPad. - zforrester, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22IT"S IN THE APPLE SECTION
- digrob, on 10/12/2007, -6/+24Brian Ball, you are scum. It's pretty pathetic you have to have your cronies digg this down so everyone can't see what kind of loser you are. This is part of the problem with Digg.
- TechPedia, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19@ideabrian
Brian, if that's really you, I don't think you are doing yourself a service by arguing this in the public forum.
Your argument that this is like buying something at Target and returning it is invalid. You bought the source code to his software (which you probably still have) and can develop similiar apps or apps with similar features. You sold the product during the purchase time (which he couldn't, legally) and you likely caused Garrett undue financial hardship during the 90 days...90 days in which you sold how many copies of xPad?
You were, in the moral sense, COMPLETELY in the wrong. Perhaps legally you have the upperhand, but as a member of the Mac community, you are not in a very noble position.
I think that you should offer refunds to everyone who purchased xPad from MacZot during this time period. - Shaft0rz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16@ideabrian: Fair enough, in a sense. If you couldn't afford the payments though, why did you sign the contract?
- BWhaler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16Well, any dude that needs to pay 5 grand in monthly installments isn't too solvent or is going into the deal looking for a back door. Seller should have been smarter. Sorry Garrett.
With that said, a scumbag move is a scumbag move, and in my opinion Brian Bell is a scumbag. Trying to hide behind a contract and play semantics is for those with no honor. And the Bush Administration. And apparently, Brian Bell.
Brian: You will learn that you should never, ever ***** with the Mac Community.
We are too loyal to the small developers since there was many years when these little developers were all we had. Times have changed and everyone loves us know that we are cool again and because we have a higher disposable income, but we remember where we came from. And ***** these developers is a guaranteed way to lose your business. (See the MacTable story for a preview of your destiny.)
I have purchased from MacZot in the past. But will never do so again, nor from any company that employs Brian Bell. - Quix, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17"BUT, the action of macZOT may be more detrimental that they realize."
Agreed. This is the worst $5k MacZOT ever saved. Yes, they followed the contract. Yes, they did it in a slimy way. Sounds like something Microsoft would do.
MacZOT is officially off my "links to check every day" list.
Mess with the good vibes of the Mac community at your peril. - Glenn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16I'm very disappointed in Mr.Ball. I worked with him for a number of months when he was getting MacZOT going, and this story will really make me think twice about supporting MacZOT in the future.
- garrettmurray, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16I do, and I appreciate the sentiment. But this isn't about the money. In fact, I want to say this:
Any money that comes in via those ads starting today will go to The National MS Society. I will donate 100% of all ad revenue. So I agree with you--click those ads... I'll send all the money to someone who really needs it. - Toccoa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Ugh. At least I can delete MacZot from my daily RSS viewing.
- dssstrkl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I've used MacZOT in the past, but never again. There is a difference in following the leter of a contract and following the spirit. Deciding two months in that he wasn't making enough money and not informing you is a slimey way to conduct business. This is why people are pissed at Novell and I hope that MacZOT does under because of this. I know how much work indie devs put into their work, and having ***** like this happen does not help the community one bit.
- Oculus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17Yeah, I agree with Fishbert. Unfortunately, as Garrett states in the article, it was his fault for trying to be "fair" when he wrote that clause into the contract. While Brian handled it in a crappy way, he was in his right to do what he did. Sucks from a business standpoint, but it happens. Sorry Garrett, glad you got the rights back though.
- garrettmurray, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12He does indeed still have all the source materials, including the app itself, the code generation app, the website originals and the user list.
- phong, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I was such a fan of xPad that I purchased a license a couple years ago. I know that there are many other fans of xPad out there as well. Then I found out it was sold to MacZot which made somewhat disappointed inside, something just didn't feel right.
Garrett is a cool guy and it is unfortunate that he had to deal with so much crap.
That is extremely unprofessional on Brian Ball's part and I wonder how many other developers he has screwed.
I registered on MacZot but never purchased anything . . . I might not ever will. This definately gives me a negative view on MacZot.
Get xPad. Garrett is a great guy for making it freeware. He deserves a lot more. - rufous, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12@LisaPT, I've never seen a more obvious sock puppet account.
- dssstrkl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12typical *****. If you don't like mac stories, why troll the Apple section?
- spdorsey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I've never liked MacZot much. They were very rude to me via email when I requested that they accept payment through means other than PayPal.
- Sturmur, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13http://www.duggmirror.com
- garrettmurray, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I want to know the same thing. For some reason, it disappeared suddenly from the front page of Digg. Can someone explain to me why that happened?
- Scatropolis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10you have to reply to your original comment. It's just a chain off each head comment.
- garrettmurray, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I want to clarify: There's nothing that can be done about the fact that he has them. I'm not saying that as in "he won't give them back," but just confirming that these are digital assets, so aside from deleting them there's nothing that can be done. I'm not worried about Mr. Ball releasing some other version of xPad (I would hope he wouldn't do this).
- DPowers08, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Brian Ball probably got a ton of friends to bury it.
- DJSdotcom, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12The ugliest part about this is the ridiculous contract, where if somebody doesn't want to pay it's no big deal, contract is null and void. As someone who does client work for a living, the most important part of the entire project/deal/negotiation is the contract. Putting together a legal document worth many thousands of dollars without having a lawyer go over it first is just a recipe for disaster, and this developer learned that first hand. If it took a few thousand dollars lost for Garrett Murray to learn how to properly deal with contracts, then I guess it's money well spent.
- garrettmurray, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@MajorMauser: When I speak of customers, I speak of people who paid the $9.99 over the three-year period when xPad was shareware. They are people who paid and supported the app, and I had a responsibility to tell them what happened. I stopped actively developing xPad a long while back. I had continual intention to pick it back up, but it never happened to due to other work, life, etc. When I saw the opportunity to sell the app to someone who wanted to continue it, I was thrilled.
It might be hard to believe, but I really love xPad and there are a lot of other people who do as well. This wasn't all about money (obviously--$5k isn't much for the 9+ months of work I put into version 1.0), it was about keeping xPad alive even if it wasn't me doing the work. A lot of people used the app and I thought it should be updated, but I didn't have time and Brian Ball came to me expressing interest in buying it so I thought that would be great.
I was very clear in all aspects of what Brian Ball was getting. I gave him sales figures, told him trends, estimated how much time he'd need to spend on further development before making money back, all of that. I was very clear. We had many conversations over the period of many days, and the end result was that Mr. Ball decided to buy it. I don't appreciate the argument that I was trying to "unload" junk on Mr. Ball. I wasn't unloading anything. I was very clear with him.
So, then, why am I giving it away for free now? This goes back to what I was saying before: I love xPad and I want it to continue. The only realistic way to do this at this point, since I have no time to develop it, is to make it free and open source it and let the community make it better. I've said over and over that this is not about the money. The post that started all of this was written to warn people about unprofessional behavior, apologize to xPad users, and to announce the change to freeware.
I hope that helps you understand the situation better. - katanna, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Legally, he was right.
Morally, he was wrong.
Matthew - macsamurai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Brian had posted his response to all this on macZOT and I did a follow-up post with some of his comments before he removed his post on macZOT. Not sure why he deleted his own post but I suspect he wasn't quite prepared for the ensuing backlash from his own macZOT community. My follow up remains here: http://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/04/brian-ball-responds-to-xpad-developers-claims/
- webranding, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Well I sent you I think $9.99 for xPad over a year ago and I'd do it again. It is the one application I can say is running on my machine 24/7. It is just so nice to work in a clean, slick, and simple product. I don't need mail merge, charts, all that junk. I just want a place to write. So thanks for creating a product that I recommend more then anyother to every mac user I run into.
- williamw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Correction : It was FileMaker
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Why don't you go troll elsewhere?
- paulsmerdon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7This situation is a clear example of how, in certain circumstances, lawyers can actually be useful.
- virtualball, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Eh, they said the same about Gizmodo and the wrath of digg, look how that turned out...
- Sturmur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7What happened to this story, it's gone from the frontpage?
- virtualball, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Thanks for making it freeware! It sucks to know that you try to be nice and sell your app to an orginization and get screwed for trying to be fair. That really sucks for you and thanks for the source! Now people could make it better then ever.
Oh and there is such a thing as the 'reply' button :) - zackkitzmiller, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6At least xPad is freeware Under GPL now.
- ezweave, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6From your post, it sounded like it was only broken up into monthly payments to make the purchase easier to swallow.
I do agree that the contract should have been worded better, however treating other developers with respect is crucial to your business. I hope this costs them business, just because the contract allows it doesn't make it ethical.
As to the delay? That is purely exploitive. Even if "other issues" were more pressing, they could of at least contacted you (it was easy enough). The actions of Mr Ball paint him as being lazy and manipulative. He should run for office. - plastree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Mr. Ball,
This story makes you and your company look bad, period. No amount of semantic shuffling can repair the damage, in fact it worsens your image further. It seems too late to apologize now, but continuing to justify your position will only worsen your reputation. If you had simply apologized up front and worked out a deal with Mr. Murray, he might never have written the post to begin with. It could have been so easy... - somerandomnerd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Nothing dugg.
Nothing submitted.
One single comment.
I'd say that ticks all the boxes. -
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