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99 Comments
- MattL920, on 10/12/2007, -9/+94Don't be silly, nobody who uses linux has sects
- MikeSD34, on 10/12/2007, -3/+61Actually if anything, people will use Safari or Camino at the end of the day because they have native OSX interfaces, where as Firefox doesn't. The only real reason to use Firefox over Camino is the extensions, and some of us don't care much about those.
- rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24Currently I use Firefox at work and Safari at home.
Safari wins hands down.
The main thing I miss on Firefox is the keyboard navigation between tabs. They've got most of the other keyboard shortcuts I need (Ctrl-N for new window, Ctrl-T for new tab, Ctrl-W to close the current tab).
Safari's Cmd-Shift-] and Cmd-Shift-[ for the win.
(nb: used to be left and right arrow instead of [ and ] in earlier versions of OSX/Safari)
One of the nice things about OS X compared to windows is that if they give you a menu command, but don't specify shortcut keys you can go and make them yourself. - Kickboy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18As long as people are moving to a browser other than IE, I don't think it matters what they use!
- NoOneButMe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15I find Firefox - Bon Echo 2 at least - to be surprisingly slow on my Computer. Better to use Camino then Firefox - runs loads better.
- themurph2099, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Camino runs much faster on my Mac mini.
- Koopa, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I just like that the Safari RSS reader shows me the number of new stories on each bookmark i have on my toolbar. If Firefox could do this, I'd switch in a second.
- littlebiker, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16Just in case if you didn't know a recent poll shows that Safari is still the number one choice for many, http://www.tezaa.com/view/Best_browser_for_Mac - Like IE as it's shipped with the OS, it gives safari a better chance.
- noliberalbull, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I'm sorry, but I don't know how anybody can use firefox as their standard browser on OSX. It is no doubt the best brower in windows, but on OSX, it is not even close. I use safari for its RSS, but once camino incoporates a better reader, I may be switching. But I think anybody who uses Firefox on OSX is just still beholden to their previous windows years, cause if you have used a Safari or Camino for any amount of time, firefox use is literally painful on OSX. I'm really not trying to bash firefox, I've been using it on windows since it was called phoenix, but you couldn't pay me to make it my default in OSX. The few sites that dont support it (and I do mean few) are generally completely non-essesntial. I've been with 3 banks in the past 3 years, they all worked with it just fine.
- Angostura, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Christ-on-a-pogo-stick. Wasn't it apparent to you that the article was talking about the battle for browser share on Mac OS X?
Sheesh - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -16/+26"Doesn't change the fact it stinks of KDE :P
EWWWW!"
You're kidding me. There's even sects within the Linux cult?
Just when I thought I was going to try putting Linux on my home machine tonight. Get a life, guys. - bmson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Safari has passed the ACID2 test and was the first browser to do so.
http://webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html#top
Safari is a level 3 browser with Firefox and Opera. IE7 is level 2 og -IE6 is level 1 - strcmp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I as well as many other technically inclined Mac users prefer Safari not because it is preinstalled but because it is the best browser on OS X.
- defectDS, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11I never felt right with firefox.. or with any other borwser for that matter. I've tried, but I get homesick. It just feels very out-of-this-world. Plus Firefox and Camino don't have the RSS feature I like in Safari, where it shows a number of how my new unread feeds there are right next to the bookmark folder of my feeds in the bookmark bar. I couldn't live without it.
- broken, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9http://www.duggmirror.com/apple/Breathe_new_life_into_OS_X_Safari/
- l0ne, on 10/12/2007, -9/+16No. There's just the KDE people, and then everyone else.
Except for the Enlightenment guys. They're just strange.
:) - kolywater, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8firefox for mac is ghetto due to its interface (even if you update the widgets). camino is significantly better choice if you choose to not use safari.
i like camino because pages often render better in camino, and back/forward is much faster on my powerbook. yes, opera is the fastest but its interface is AWFUL. even less osx-like than firefox. i really wish they would fix up the opera interface. while safari is correct according to standards, camino is a little better at handling website errors.
oh and for RSS, safari is a DOG if you let it keep any history. i much prefer the excellent and free RSS reader Vienna.
http://www.opencommunity.co.uk/vienna2.html - motang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6As long as it's standards compliant (which it is) then it's all cool. One of the main reason I don't like IE is because it's not standards compliant and it's not as much customizable as Firefox is, or even Safari from this article.
- mcg321, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"its perfect always all over."
"but nothing is entirely perfect"
Nice.
Anyway, I use Camino on my Macbook - lightning fast. - bloo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Firefox's Sage plugin does this much better than Safari's Live Bookmarks. That being said, I still use Safari, but NetNewsWire for my default RSS agg.
http://sage.mozdev.org/
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/17557 - jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Yeah even the G4 optimized builds don't stand up to Camino on my G4 Powerbook. Still on the new Intel Macs Firefox is loads faster.
- purpleaspi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8For Safari extensions, I think this website is cool:
http://www.pimpmysafari.com - altjeringa, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Firefox is slow as Dirt. Safari leaks memory and has really crappy javascript support ( thought vastyly superior CSS support ). What we need is a RAIB ( Redundant Array of Independent Browsers ). One browser multiple rendering engines. Frankly I don't care what browser I use ( and I randomly move between 3 or 4 ) as long as it doesn't stink of Microsoft.
- shai969, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Umm....I don't think you know what perfect means.
- Salvo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Camino runs much better than Safari on most machines, however Camino doesn't support RSS feeds natively yet. Ever since I updated to Tiger, I've been using Safari's RSS feeds.
If I'm in a Hurry and Safari is Beachballing due to RSS feeds, I'll use Camino to visit a specific page, but I usually use Safari exclusively. - bpapa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I've been in Mac land for a little bit and here's my experiences -
Safari was what I started wiith, but after a bit I started to miss the Firefox features. :( So I switched.
I used Firefox on Mac for a little bit. But I missed the RSS stuff. And, with all my extensions, it ran like crap. Then I realized more and more that I didn't really need most of these extensions any more. They were duplicated with Dashboard widgets.
So then I started with Camino, and I haven't looked back. I still use Firefox, but only for development purposes (web developer toolbar, javascript debugging). The RSS stuff from Safari has been replaced by another reader (Feed). I also use Safari sometimes if something doesn't seem to work in Camino. But Camino is my first choice. - Overlord, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Not a bad article for a list of Safari addons that people can use.
I don't see why so many people care that much about what browser is better. I think the important thing is people use what works the best for them. There are always some reasons not to use certain browsers for compatiblity reasons perhaps, but that war is close to being over.
Personally on OS X I use Shiira -- http://hmdt-web.net/shiira/en -- it is completely free and adds pretty much all the features mentioned in this article plus it's faster than Safari. It does the job of browsing fine for me. I don't consider it "the best" browser, but there is no such thing as "the best" browser. - jmob, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9seems like a silly argument. Which ever browser gets shipped with a computer is the one the majority of people will use.
- brainache, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Huh, that holds, unless the browser they are switching to is in fact Internet Explorer with a different face. Cue CrazyBrowser et al.
- Undefined, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I agree. I love firefox and I use it as a secondary browser for testing my sites and projects that I'm working on. but on osx the firefox gui is just way to clunky and akward, and I don't think the speed advantages of firefox is true on osx, windows maybe, but not osx. But as a web developer, I gotta say that safari's css support is far superior to anything else out there. When working with css safari always does exactly what I want it to do. firefox is pretty good, but it still takes a little bit of tweaking to get it to look exactly how I want. Firefox's javascript support is really good though. And IE is the bain of my existence. I think the world (or at least the internet) would be a better place is IE did not exist. As long as thats the direction we are moving in, I think its a good thing.
- millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11"Firefox hasn't won the the browser war yet"
Yeah, against Internet Explorer. There's not much of a challenge coming from Safari. Being exclusive to Mac OS isn't going to help against a "war" against a browser available on every platform.
MSIE"s trump card is the user install base of Windows. If only 10% of computers ran Windows, then MSIE's usage wouldn't be much of an issue. - starmanjones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5>so, here's the deal ;) Safari looks nice (cocoa interface),
>but at the end of the day, people are just going to use
>Firefox
i always wonder who says things like this. everybody has firefox because of the extensions. they are awesome and powerful... and kick ass. but firefox on a mac just feels clunky. it feels like a windows application. its just irritating to use day in and day out. so really i dont know any mac users that have abandoned safari or the others that use webkit. shiira is a great browser. feels and acts like safari with features no other browser has. safari isn't threaten at all. i couldn't use firefox as my only browser.
and in the same general thought... i got irritated at mail.app because it can be a CPU hog. so i decided i'd switch to thunderbird. i spent a month working with it trying to get it to feel comfortable. i use the interface extensions and got it looking like mail.app and finally i gave up. mail.app just works better. does what you want. feels like a mac app. so made myself an imap account sent all my mail to it... and brought back mail.app. i can't tell you what relief is was. its just works. and the latest incarnation doesn't seem to be as big a CPU hog.
anywy. - gengisPhat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9@rickcarson Ctrl-Tab or Ctrl-Shift-Tab to hard for you to use in Firefox to shift between tabs?
(Sub Cmd for Ctrl on Mac I think) - iNoles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Firefox are working to Cocoa Widget some time in the future.. I'm not Firefox Developer. There are some progress over in Josh Aas's Blog.
- d4rkn1ght, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I use all; they all have their weakness and strengths.
Firefox is a little slower than the other browsers, but it still a hell of a lot better than IE.
In the end I think all the other Mac browsers, Safari, Camino, iCab, etc, are great. I like more the fact that we now have more choices than we had in previous years. Remember the days of Netscape and IE only choices.
The fact that I can browse modern sites in my oldest Mac, is something that we can do with the many great browsers we have today.
http://upitfree.com/v2/show.php/1090_yahooicab.png.html - adodaro, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7For everyone who wants the firefox feel in OS X but need the support for plug-ins, why not try Flock? http://www.flock.com
It's based on the Mozilla engine plus there is a way to convert all of your extensions from firefox over to Flock! Even though it's beta I'm using it right now and haven't touched firefox/safari in a few months. And it has native support for Web 2.0 stuff like blogging, flickr, RSS feeds and del.icio.us built right into the browser. Just a thought. - dille, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Camino is certainly looking good, but it's not quite there yet. As far as I know you can't even drag tabs around and having no session saving is big NO NO for me. Otherwise Camino looks good, works well and is fast.
I just don't get it, session saving is one of the most requested feature for just about any browser out there and still only a few actually have it? It's one of the key features of Opera (at least for me). You can get session saving for Firefox via extensions, but unfortunately with Safari you need digg up cash (Saft).
As far as I know Camino doesn't have anything else except a couple of amazingly slow session-scripts that do not even work correctly :(. Camino + Adblocking + Session saving would be Perfect. For now I go with the FireFox. Sure it's not the prettiest / fastest browser around for OSX but add couple must have extensions and it is one damn good browser, like Macs, It just works.
Opera 9 OSX version is god awfully buggy so till the 9.1 bug-fix version comes out Opera is no go too... - coolbru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Have you tried reporting Safari bugs? http://webkit.opendarwin.org/ Whenever I've reported one, they've been all over it like a rash in no time. The nightly builds are really pretty good in general, lots of new toys like SVG and CSS3 stuff (rounded corners - yay!). They've recently added a Venkman-style JS debugger called Drosera.
In general I find Safari far more pleasant to use than Firefox on OS X: it's way faster, and its rendering is generally better looking, but FF does have some fantastic developer tools that I use a lot too. - Sp1k3d, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4That's true, Linux and Mac OS X will get native widgets in the default builds of Firefox 3.0, and in the Cairo branch of 2.0 builds.
- skoles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Only thing that's keeping me from using Safari is the useless bookmark sidebar.
I want it so I can have it constantly open on the side and browse at the same time like in Firefox. Right now Safari uses dropdown bookmarks and using the sidebar only causes you to lose it once you click a link. - strcmp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Look around on the internet (google, webkit.opendarwin.org etc...) and you'll find that the WebCore rendering engine is slowly but surely being ported to Windows and Linux. Dave Hyatt (lead Safari dev) commented somewhere that he wanted to start releasing nightly builds of WebCore for Windows soon, so keep an eye out.
- Undefined, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Safari integrates really nicely with automator actions also. I have all kinda of automator actions setup using safari, and I can't really duplicate them for firefox.
- generic109, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3bpapa,
Yes, I use the three browsers the same way. Firefox has replaced IE as the browser to which to go if all else fails. Camino has the best interface, but doesn't work with many websites: Gmail, for instance. I generally use the browsers in that order: Camino, Safari, Firefox. - prockcore, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"But as a web developer, I gotta say that safari's css support is far superior to anything else out there."
Please! Safari didn't even support border-collapse or overflow: auto until Tiger. list-style-position: inside doesn't work right either.
Safari still has a bug where if you have a textarea with less than 5 rows, the scrollbar doesn't appear.
Not to mention the utter lack of being able to style form elements in Safari. - generic109, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I think that Firefox for the Mac is a great thing: if it weren't for Firefox, the discontinuation of IE might actually mean something. I hope one day that OpenOffice serves the same function for Mac users, and the threat of pulling Office becomes meaningless.
- NikZ, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@nogami: It may interest you to know that Safari has been consistently the majority choice by Mac users (by far) pretty much since it's introduction. Rob Griffin from MaxOSXHints runs a "browser wars" poll every year, and while they may be "just more web polls", you'll see that the relatively tech-savvy MaxOSXHints reader base do indeed favor Safari over all other browsers. The latest poll (browser wars 6) shows Safari more than doubles FireFox in popularity.
Browser Wars 4:
http://www.macosxhints.com/polls/index.php?qid=browser4&aid=-1
Browser Wars 5:
http://www.macosxhints.com/polls/index.php?qid=browser5&aid=-1
Browser Wars 6:
http://www.macosxhints.com/polls/index.php?qid=browser6&aid=-1 - glafira, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I only use Safari because it binds into OS X so nicely, via not only the Interface but also functionality.
- superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4What sites are you using? My bank was the last thing that didn't really work OK with Safari and they fixed that long ago. The eBay postal integration now works as it should, I haven't come across a site in a year or so I actually had to load Firefox to view instead of Safari.
In the real world the need to accomodate Firefox has led I think to better standards, and thus better Safari, support. - NikZ, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I have to do online banking with about 4 different banks, over twice as many accounts. I use Safari 100% of the time for it all, and it hasn't failed me yet.
But then, I could just be lucky.
Oh, I also live in the real world, and I'm a 'hardcore mac-dude'. - valkraider, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What are you talking about Camino doesn't work with GMail? I use it all day every day with three GMail accounts. Works just fine.... In fact, I use it mainly for GMail because Safari doesn't work as well with GMail.
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