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Boot Camp or Enemy Action? What The Beta Means.

osx86project.org — While Apple's "Boot Camp" may be a shot across the bow of Microsoft, Steve Ballmer won't be throwing any chairs over this one. Yet. The OSx86 Project has some good analysis of what the news means for us all.

Who dugg this? Made popular Apr 5, 2006

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  • Chaucer, on 10/12/2007, -4/+33I bet the people in Redmond are just trying to get beta copies of Vista to boot on regular PCs at this point!
  • yuannewplant, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Repeat...
    Apple - Cha Ching!
    Microsoft - Cha Ching!
    Users - happier!?! (depends on individual).
    (now if the mini finally comes down in price circa 4-5 hundo then they will have a slamdunk - only because i still think that price is the main concern for buyers) Discuss.
  • replica, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17Joe User is NOT going to buy a Mac for $1000 and a copy of WindowsXP for $200 when they could just buy a $500 Dell.
  • michnaugh1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft has known about this for sometime. Apple and MS are pitted as enemies locked in an epic dual. In reality, they're not. They're companies trying to make a buck. I would not be the least bit surprised if some MS people worked on this with Apple people. I think the big question is what does this do to Vista? Does it make Vista less relevant? Will Vista dual boot on a Mac? I would have to think Cupertino has some people trying to get beta copies of Vista going on a MacBook Pro.
  • Dietrich, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14Mac hardware is the balls now that it's intel based. This + Windows is really the best of all worlds.
  • crosswick, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Don%u2019t you just love apostrophes :-P
  • Ciantic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Yes it will, in fact even my little bro who barely understands nothing about hardware and geek society. Knows that Apple is more secure and "graphics kicks ass" and now even with the gaming ability. He said that his next computer is Macintosh. So it seems to convince even the ones that doesn't know about hardware (gaming geek). And it did convince me, even to register, and to reply just this post.

    Why it convinced me? Simply the fact that I can run the OS X and Windows with same machine, not perhaps the need but only the fact that it is possible. Next computer I buy is most certainly Macintosh with Intel inside.

    We should not forget that Apple coders still has more control over the hardware and meanwhile Windows geeks doesn't have "any" control on it. That alone makes Apple geeks to create better code for days to come I think.
  • wonderbud, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10it definetly will.
  • agjimenez, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11I know I will.
  • brettshow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9No one is going to buy a mac just to boot windows only, that is what DELL is for.
  • mxpxpx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11yes, it will
  • Kitsune818, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13locked in an epic dual... what? overhead cam? pipes? cores?

    Now, "Duel Booting" would be kick ass. Start the computer, and may the best OS win!!
  • ezkiel, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13How is Apple not the Winner? They just gave me the final reason to sell my PC to buy an iMac now.

    It's been so long without my PB (sold it in anticipation of intel Macs)

    Now I can enjoy the sweetness of the OS X interface and still game.
  • captaindan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"Bood" is my new favorite word.
  • Retrograde, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8I suppose the question is, will this news convince anyone here to buy a Mac that wouldn't have before?
  • brettshow, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9For all you MAC haters, this isn't just giving into MS, Apple is one of the few companies that actually listens to their users and customers. It's like VP Schiller said, we have alot of request that users want to boot XP. So apple made their users happy. You haters don't get it. This isn't going to make OS X go away and less important. Apple will release 10.5 probably later this year, while XP which is at least 6 years old, is still the freshness OS MS has to offer. I think it is very clear, once users start to use the mac, they will be hooked, its called the HALO effect, and once Vista shows its face by Jan, 10.5 will have already been released in the wild, and prove the point that it's far more advanced than anything MS has to offer. I think you are going to see alot of happy customers buying new macs, and loading XP just because they have to run certain APPS.

    News Flash EVERYONE!!! The average consumer HATES WINDOWS, this is just another reason to abandon it, and also still have it around if they need it. Easy transition.
  • jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6haha http://projectosx86.org seems to have suffered the digg effect

    Apple today launched a shot across Microsoft%u2019s bow with Boot Camp, the beta version of its solution to let Mac users boot Windows on their Macintels.

    While at first I thought I could see Steve Ballmer throwing a chair across the room at the news, I realized that with Apple%u2019s semi-cozy relationship with Microsoft, this news isn%u2019t likely to be a surprise to any of the major players. (There have been rumors in the past of a tacit OS agreement between the two companies) As Apple continues to regain market share against PCs, I doubt they want to risk an all-out war with Windows.

    But why should there be a conflict anyway? Microsoft ships more units of XP and, at some unforeseen date, Vista. Apple picks up new customers who would love to move a Mac but can%u2019t leave Windows behind for various reasons. It seems like a win-win situation for all.

    Apple%u2019s move also answers those who continue to ask why anyone would want Windows on their Mac. Why? Because it%u2019s possible. Because, for the corporate environment, it makes business sense. And because now it%u2019s simple.

    But there are larger implications for the announcement of Boot Camp. The largest is that it marks Apple%u2019s first true strategic use of the switch to Intel. EFI was a smart move and the speed benefits are obviously nice, but the ability to dual boot Windows (and - likely - use it within OS X in Leopard via virtualization) is probably the trump card Apple was waiting to use.

    If they can get PC users to buy a Mac to use both operating systems, they%u2019re betting that eventually those %u201Cswitchers%u201D will rely solely on OS X. But even if they don%u2019t, another Mac has been sold.

    Should Microsoft be concerned? Maybe. But in the mean time, I have the feeling it%u2019ll be a lot more acceptable to be toting a MacBook Pro around Redmond.
  • CrzyMke, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8I think people are thinking on too grand a scale. Apple doesn't want to be the Everyman personal computer. It is a sort of luxury product for those who like their aesthetic. The problem is that Apple loses out on a lot of people who don't want to give up on their precious specific windows-specific software. I don't think they want (at least not immediately) a majority share of the computer market - they are a niche brand that wants to overcome the hurdle that many users have to trying it out.

    I think they should've gone the way of the rumors and gotten virtualization software instead of booting software. That way they could stick it a little harder to MS by not requiring people to buy WinXP, and still allowing people their proprietary software they need from time to time.

    Lots of you poo poo about Dvorak being on the money and Apple giving up on OS X. The reality is that most of us Apple users want nothing to do with Windows. Truth be told its a necessary evil and can't be completely avoided - but i don't choose apple for its hardware.
  • Oobitsa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Hey DrWho, I'd love to argue this one with you, but I'm busy using my MacBook Pro to download drivers for my mate who's Dell hard drive just crapped out on him. We've got a few hour's worth of rebuilding to do! ;)
  • stokestack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"XP is going the way of the buffalo"

    What planet do you live on? A large fraction of the computing world still hasn't upgraded from Windows 2000. XP will be around a long time, especially since no one cares about the OS anymore. The only things that matter to computer users today: Can I get on the Web, and can I play my music?

    Ninety-nine percent of the people won't give a rat's ass when Vista comes out. The only reason it'll make inroads is that it'll be preinstalled on new computers.
  • jcdickerson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Yup. I will now replace my aging Pentium 2.2 used for games and development with a Intel tower whever it is released. The old computer will be cannibalized for parts and the remainder given to charity. The XP OEM disc will be the last Microsoft OS I will EVER purchase.
  • conigs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"How can you say the average computer user hates Window? It's loaded on 90% of all computers out there ... and pirated like almost no other software. That's a lot of love for the OS that the 'average' guy hates."

    I forgot where I heard this, it might have even been on digg. The quote is something to the effect of:
    "People use PCs for the applications, not Windows. People use Macs because of OS X."
    To me, that makes sense. I hear a lot of people talk about why they like Macs and it's often the OS they're referring to. People talk about why they use PCs and it's often applications they like (and need to use). So it may not be that they hate windows, but that they just don't have any particular affection for it.
  • --alex--, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4^geekee
    Have you used OSX?
    It *is* better than windows- just saying that they'll boot xp more often is crap.
    The actual quality of the systems is better as well, as they really do make standard PC machines look tame.

    And when I say OSX is better I have used windows, linux and osx there really is no comparison- although linux does come close sometimes it never has the finish that osx has.
  • bluehouse, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5This is just another hardware vendor MS can sell Windows to. This is great news for them I think
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@Dr. Who
    I agree with you until you said "Dell, all they need to do is start selling one of the 2000 linux distros, Apple = dead."

    This is contra to your statement about the fanboys. Do you think they want a Dell box? Hell no. It's not Linux they want, it's OS X.
  • Oobitsa, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6timmclargehuge

    So, sometime (who knows when) next YEAR, DirectX10 will come out with Vista, which we know won't run through Boot Camp? That's a bit of a stretch, sport.
  • sourcemonkey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5This is an extremely significant development. Anyone who is unable to see the implications of this for Apple/Microsoft needs to think re-think his/her position.
  • mdweaver7485, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5It does nothing for convincing, what it does is ease the adoption of Mac. As a PC user I see the Mac Operating System as the convincing factor its basically Linux with easier use, office, dreamweaver and photoshop support. It has the whole not Windows and easier than Linux going for it. Hardware wise the Mac line provides a better media experience through front row and its remote as well as better syncing between portable devices. The only thing missing is a TV tuner. As a consumer its the better product for my needs
  • traviswalters, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I believe this will benefit Apple most in the consumer realm. Simply because of OS X's ease of use and the iLife apps. I have my iMac on the same desk as my PC, which I keep just for PC only games. I can now get rid of that PC. I agree this won't benefit business immediately just from lost productivity of rebooting all day. On a consumer level though, people can say, "Well I can buy this very small computer that looks nice, and has this cool new OS, but keep my old one just in case". I bet eventually they find less and less reason to use Windows.
  • eltoozero, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4You betcha, I know three people personally who were hoping this would happen, and who just asked me this morning if this was legit so they could "go for it" with my blessing.
  • Chaucer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Check out the article. It's a shot because it'll add to the numbers of Mac users who, eventually, will become more relient on Apple than Microsoft.

    It won't happen overnight but I think the author is right - while MS will sell more copies of XP in the short term, it'll lose power in the long term.
  • brettshow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I think your right, they don't realize there is a whole other world of OS stuff out there, I mean look at firefox, I talked with someone today that has never heard of it, TONS AND TONS of people still use IE for everything.
  • manano, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I wonder if apple is going to be providing drivers for it's iSight built in Camera for Windows? I wouldn't mind being able to install one of those on my Windows box....
  • pierre, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5No he wasnt....not at all. He said apple wold ditch osx and use only windows. This is not even close to that.
  • webpoet73, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5A Mac running windows is not a Mac... it's a fancy PC.
  • jschrab, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Just because one CAN have Windows on a Mac now doesn't mean that every Mac owner WILL have Windows on their Mac; a developer cannot make such an assumption/demand on their potential user base and have Windows only. It would be a marketing mistake to close off a potential market.

    In a way, nothing has changed. Apple hasn't created a problem. Microsoft hasn't acquired a problem. PC makers now have more competition - THAT'S the outcome of Boot Camp.

    There is "The Halo Effect" possibility but that remains to be seen. I'm sure it WILL happen; some Windows users will have a taste of Mac OS X, like it and move away from Windows as a primary OS. Whether or not that becomes a substantial percentage of users is what we are all watching for.

    Boot Camp is a Trojan Horse.
  • caper88, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I know I will. The kids have been asking for Windows for quite some time, to play games. I also have a $500 dollar Dell in my office, and the noise pollution is terrible. So, after the kids, I will get a mini, so I don't have to deal with the noise.
  • --alex--, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2it may be a trojan horse.
    But who are the citizens of Troy?
    Apple or Microsoft?
  • inkswamp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3> It *is* better than windows

    The only people I know making the claim that you can do anything on Windows that you can do on a Mac are, invariably, those who have never used Macs (at least enough to know what they're talking about... and no, clicking the mouse a few times at Best Buy isn't "using Macs.") I've used Windows and Macs extensively and professionally and ever since 2002 or so, Apple has pulled way ahead of Windows and hasn't stopped moving ahead of them since. I don't want to sound like a zealot, but it never ceases to amaze me how insistent people are in having opinions about things they obviously don't use.
  • tarouszars, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have to strongly disagree with Dr. Who. As I want to use OS X. I've met many people who wanted to give it a try, but couldn't because they had an app or 2 that they HAD to use, and it was Windows only. I also know people who switched to Windows from OS X. None of them did it because they didn't like OS X, but because they wanted to game, or needed to use 1 or 2 windows only programs. If any of them could have bought a computer that could do both they would have.

    I'm stoked about this for work. We publish OS X and Windows software. I could double my hardware replacement cycle if I only had to buy 1 new machine instead of 2.

    I see this as a huge benefit to apple.
  • mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Games man, it's all about the games...
  • blackjack75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Or the latest XP virus wipes out OSX partition ... I really wish there would be a lock upon boot to completely hide the OSX partition from Windows.
  • cerisaac, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The case for the switch goes to the fact that, for regular users, OS X is much better. It is easier to use, once learned, and offers a better experience nearly across the board. Games are truly the only thing lacking on the platform. An "out of the box" experience comparing just OS X with XP on oranges to oranges hardware will always go to OS X. XP is simply older technology with less features.
  • fox, on 04/11/2009, -1/+3This is just a step toward the virtualiztion in Leopard. Once they get that going, I think then it will start to hurt the Windows market share enough for them to feel it.

    I think Apple will eventually win or at least get half of the market like this. As people get used to it, they will like the design (iMac - small, all in one) and the OS (Looks good and simplicity) and become less dependent on Windows. They are already hooked on the design and simplicity with the iPod, will be easier for them to switch that to a computer.
  • brettshow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Im afraid that OS X will go away, it is the BEST OS on the planet, but yet everyone wants to boot Windows, and their stock is going up, OH JEEZ!
  • Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Apple and MS are indeed enemies, but as Sun-Tzu wrote, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

    Microsoft has every reason to cooperate with Apple because it gives them power over Apple. What would have happened to Apple when they were struggling to make a comeback in the late 90's if MS had stopped selling Office for Mac? It would have been the death of the Mac. Too bad for MS that they were defending themselves from an anti-trust lawsuit at the time, so they needed Apple to stay afloat.
  • GoodBrain, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I've wanted a Mac for home to play with. I've wanted a laptop too, but want to be able to run windows on it. I haven't been able to justify either purchase individually though. It's a lot easier to think about if I can combine the two. Now I can.

    So yeah, It's easy for me to see why this might sell a Mac that wouldn't otherwise sell.

    Once the towers come out, I bet this will be a big selling point for people who'd like a mac, but also love to game. Now they can have a mac, but also run all the PC only games they want.
  • geekfreak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3one machine that can run all major oses, so if you are, for example, a web dev, you now have a box that can be used to test all kinds of os/browser configs. this is very useful, more useful perhaps would be a good virtualization engine that allows VM's of XP/Vista/Linux to run on the intel macs.

    also, as macs are very good at booting from firewire drives, it is quite possible to have a config where you just plug in an external drive and boot to whatever config you want, again this is very useful for QA etc.

    if the choice is between a 'cheap' PC that runs xp/linux or a more expensive apple that runs osx/xp/linux, i can see many people choosing the latter.

  • conigs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Boot camp is primarily an install assistant. It will add a partition to your hard drive (without reformatting it) and burn a CD with mac specific drivers to install into windows. I'm not so sure it adjusts anything in the EFI (no BIOS on a Mac) as you have to hold down option to be able to choose the boot partition (and have thus already gone beyond the EFI load).
  • inkswamp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A colleague of mine is already looking into it, asking me questions and whatnot. Before today, he's never shown an interest in Macs. Weird how one thing like this can make such a difference in people's perceptions.
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