What is Digg?268 Comments
- splinecl, on 10/12/2007, -35/+149"what's the point having 1920x1200 when Windows only does 64x64 icons?"
Haha, are you kidding me! Who gives a ***** about icons :) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -44/+96Listen, Macgeeks. No matter how you fudge the numbers and obfuscate the math, PCs are still less expensive than Macs. That says nothing of quality, mind you, but Macs are more expensive than PCs, especially when you consider component replacement.
Get over it. - dukrous, on 10/12/2007, -7/+53It's not about the games...it's about the hardware. Comparing a ATI mobility X1600 to an Nvidia 7900 GS is comparing two different beasts. One is a handy all-purpose card, the other is a tuned up game-focused card.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+49"You pay for superior quality in the physical parts of the computer"
You're ***** us all right?
I'm not going to do a rundown of the vast number of physical defects your beloved macs have, just go to www.macdefects.com if you're unfamiliar.
Face it, the only difference hardware wise between a mac and a PC is a bit of extra shininess and a TC chip that locks OSX to the mac. Thats literally it!
The motherboards (this 'logic board' thing is utter crap) are by asus (I think), chips by intel, graphics by ATI etc etc etc. Its just a heavily locked down PC! - dukrous, on 10/12/2007, -31/+70You keep your MBP. I have an M170 and have been very happy with it. It's my only computer, and does everything I need, including high-end gaming.
When Apple comes out with a gaming laptop, then I'll consider it a good comparison. Until then, MBPs should be compared to the Dell Latitude series. - dBLiSS, on 10/12/2007, -13/+53I'm a bit confused on the fanboyism with apples (or pcs for that matter). But, and Correct me if I am wrong, isn't an Apple just a "PC" in a pretty box running a proprietary BSD distro?
Is there something I'm missing in this whole MAC v. PC war? - rderveloy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+35Why are they comparing the XPS to the Macbook Pro? In terms of hardware and design, the Macbook Pro is much more simular to the Latitude series. Specifically, the D820.
Dell Latitude D820*:
+Win Xp Pro
+2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
+2GB Ram
+120 GB Hard Drive
+15" widescreen display
+256MB NVIDIA Video Card
+DVD&CD Burner Combo Drive
+Dual Band A/G Wireless Card
+3 Year extended warranty with accidental damage coverage, gold tech support, and next day onsite repairs.
Total Cost: $2,725
Apple MacBook Pro*:
+Mac OSX
+2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
+2GB Ram
+120 GB Hard Drive
+DVD/CD burner combo drive.
+15 Inch widescreen display
+256MB ATI Video Card
+G wireless card
+3 year extended warranty
Total Cost: $2,848
It's $2,725 vs $2,848. That's pretty damn close.
* As far as I can tell the dell doesn't offer a dual layer dvd writer drive and I couldn't tell weather or not a modem was already built in. The Apple offers backlit keyboad and built-in camera. The dell offers a built-in fingerprint scanner. As for the warranty service, dell's 3 year business standard plan seems to beat Apple's protection plan. According to Apple's description, Apple only offers onsite repairs on their desktop machines and it doesn't automatically cover everything in that order. Specifically, the Apple plan only covers one display if you register it with the warranty. It doesn't specify weather or not that includes the laptop screen. (I have heard from IT friends that it doesn't, someone please confirm.)
Bottom line: You can configure both dell and apple to be nearly identical for a nearly identical price. However, dell offers the most flexibility when it comes to configuring your system. At face value, Dell seems to offer the better warranty since it offers both next business day onsite repairs and accidental damage coverage. Apple, per usual, offers much more restrictive configuration options, but it makes an attempt to make up for it by offering a built-in camera and dual-layer dvd burner standard.
But you wouldn't know that from the article or from digg. - IQ70, on 10/12/2007, -9/+39Lets see Mac fanatics beat this.
DIMENSION C521
AMD Athlon™ 64 3200+
512MB Single Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz - 1DIMM
80GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
16X DVD-ROM Drive
17 inch E177FP Analog Flat Panel
NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE Integrated Graphics GPU
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
19" LCD monitor.
$429. w free shipping
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/odg/q4wk5_email_jump2?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&acd=1680511305&ACD=qIpmRXVEdyr4Akm8tSDi&AID=0038386869 - jamble, on 10/12/2007, -14/+44"The cost of antivirus?"
Come off it, all you have to do is install an antivirus app when you get your machine and leave it alone from then on. I'm not clear on why mac users constantly think anyone who owns a pc simply spends all their waking hours manually combatting virus attacks.
Could someone explain that one to me please?
As for the article .. buried as it's dead boring. - FabianN, on 10/12/2007, -11/+39@ yyan
"4 gb of ram costs about 3k"
Are you ***** kidding me?
No way does it cost 3k
More like $400-$500
Anything over $600 is a complete rip-off - Septimus, on 10/12/2007, -8/+31(what's the point having 1920x1200 when Windows only does 64x64 icons?)
XP has icons up to 128px. You just need to know what to enable.
But yeah, still pointless as an argument. They are meant for completely different things and well all know Dell's aren't value for money at the high end anyway. - etx313, on 10/12/2007, -11/+33It's not that it _CAN'T_ run OSX, it's just that Apple won't let it.
- emomakesmecry, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22I'm really not either a Mac or PC guy. I have my killer desktop that I built myself which runs XP/Ubuntu that I use for everything...and then I have my Macbook for class and when I'm on the road. I absolutely love both and I understand the arguments for both Mac and PC...but here's the thing...
Who cares? It's your computer. if you're happy with it then awesome. why try to force your computer preferences on other people? if they really enjoy their PC, then let them. if they cream their pants at the thought of a mac pro, that's fine. let them. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -28/+49Guys look, also, nothing beats dell's warranty and XPS support.
They've been nothing but helpful and expedient, and always have given me the benefit of the doubt.
I spilled water on my keyboard,
within five days i got a complete replacement with a boost from the yonah 2.0ghz to 2.1gz and also went from 2gb of ram to 4gb of ram. This is all for paying a little extra on the warrantee (4 gb of ram costs about 3k) - rompom7, on 10/12/2007, -7/+27No of course they don't get a dime... Until you buy MS Office for your Mac.
Anyway, I hate it when people compare Macs with Dells. Apple and Dell are totally different companies with totally different goals and markets... Stop comparing. Dell will win 50% of the time, and Apple will win the other 50%. - scutter, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21I've seen a number of these "price comparisons", and I have to say that they are really misleading. If you are at all a savvy shopper, you know that Dell frequently offers coupons that heavily discount their list prices. For example, I bought a server a number of years ago for around $500 whose list price was a couple of thousand. I bought my wife's laptop for $800. I think the un-discounted price on that was around $1500. Macs on the other hand, are almost never discounted, and absolutely are never discounted more than a relatively small amount.
So yes, if you're an idiot who likes to spend full list price, the price of a Mac compares very favorably with a Dell. If you are looking for getting the most hardware for the buck, the Dell still wins handily.
That said, I think the Mac offers some compelling benefits which you might find worth the extra money.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p134/Scutter_photos/Apple-Fanboy-Alert-small.jpg
Alert Level: HIGH - davidleeroth, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23In all seriousness, who the hell spends 3000 bucks on a Dell?
- ear1grey, on 10/12/2007, -7/+25PC's win over Mac's (always) in terms of cost because of competition. Having Apple move to the same Intel based components will narrow this gap because they are buying from the same competitive component markets, but they are still a niche player who charge more so that they can afford to develop and differentiate their product.
If you think you're buying something different (or better) by buying Apple, then that's exactly the reason why they are able to charge slightly more for approximately the same components assembled slightly differently with proprietary software installed.
Compare Apple with a GNU/Linux laptop and the price comparison becomes more mismatched because there's no OS + Bundled Software price to fudge. The rapid development of Linux UI's is going to squeeze Apple's desktop niche (and force their prices down further), so their continued focus on profitable markets such as gadgets is understandable.
Whether you love, hate, or are indifferent to Apple is irrelevant. The price is just a factor of market forces, it's dropping, and Apple are becoming more like PC's in hardware, and more like Linux in software every day - Apple can't stop this, they have to embrace it to keep in the market. - imjustsayin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19Scoff all you want at this config. The reality is that it will do everything that the vast majority of average users will need it for.
- paulmdx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20"And why WOULD Apple want to compete against that?"
Because lots of people buy computers in that price bracket. - readerr0, on 10/12/2007, -19/+36@ dukrous
First they need to make games that arn't already 3 years old for OS X :). The only popular game thats compatable with OS X that i can think of is WoW - lazydrumhead, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17"uh...uh...
BUT IS IT SHINY?!" - Kypt, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18"The cost of antivirus?"
Avast is free isn't it? - IQ70, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17If Microsoft would include all the cool softwares they make and buy every application company under the sun and include that in Vista SP1, Mac fanatics will be the first to invoke the "M$ is a monopoly" caveat.
XP had WMP and Microsoft had to pay the EU 450 million dollars. Think! - jhub908, on 10/12/2007, -22/+36@yyan
my experience with dell support on my inspiron
Me: My screen is broke, the colors flicker when i move the laptop lid
Them: (probably not understanding) Do the self diagnostic test
Me: It passed of course, because it's a broken connection not a failing card
Them: It passed it's not broke.
Me: I paid for in home support send someone to fix it I KNOW it's broke.
Them: It's not broke goodbye.
F!@# YOU DELL - IQ70, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21@badtz: Does Steve Jobs generate spawns of morons that spew venom every where they go?
This configuration of computer is the one that everyone wants and buys.
This configuration is the reason that XP running PCs make 95% of the market! - DarkSkillz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15@ Kypt
Yes, Nod32, Avast, and AVG free are all free and better then the ones that cost money. - IQ70, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19$399 with 17" lcd and $429 with 19" lcd display
digg wudnt let me edit it. - dnight, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15Why is it that Apple stories always make the front page and the only Microsoft story that makes the front page is one that demeans Microsoft? It's sad to say, but digg is no longer a free market of internet news. It's controlled by a very small portion of Apple fans because 90% of the world that actually uses a PC isn't participating on Digg.
- dbr_onix, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Sure, if you configure a $3000 Dell laptop to the same specs as a Macbook Pro, the Dell is more expensive. But, what if I don't want a $3000 laptop? You can buy reasonably powered (For non-gaming) PC laptops for a lot less than that.
Apple is generally in the higher price range, as stated in the article - sure, there's the cheaper Macbook, but even still, it's pretty expensive - Quickly looking at the Dell site, there's a cheap laptop for £350, a faster one for £450, and a gaming one for £850. Compared to the Macbook, all bar the gaming Dell are cheaper (And it's higher spec'd)
- Ben - mrgreen4242, on 10/12/2007, -15/+25"I'm a bit confused on the fanboyism with apples (or pcs for that matter). But, and Correct me if I am wrong, isn't an Apple just a "PC" in a pretty box running a proprietary BSD distro?"
It's a pretty box running a proprietary BSD distro with lots of 3rd part commercial software support, very custom tailored hardware support (which lends to very stable reliable systems), and the most advanced windows server+GUI design in the world.
Other than that, you've got it down. - Murdats, on 10/12/2007, -10/+19lol at paying for antivirus, the only people I see do that are those who know little enough to maybe get themselves infected
im on my third year without antivirus and have no viruses, how do I know this? because I actually had to install one a while back for 20min cause I thought I may have (turned out to be a broken firefox plugin)
how much did it cost me? nothing, there are tons of free antivirus out there, hell some of the best ones are free
how to make a secure windows
install windows, install firewall, (and dont let idiots run givemefreemoney.exe on your computer)
and the reason that mac zealots beleive that windows users are constantly removing virus's, spending 20 hours a day trying to get things to work and are completley incapable of doing any media editing?
because apple told them, you just have to go to the apple page to see these messages, saying things like 13,923 viruses in the wild and citing all other uncited and cleverly (and carefully worded) implied attacks - IQ70, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12The site is biased.
Apple posts need 30 diggs to end up on front page. Microsoft posts need 100 diggs.
A recent post showed that 70% users on Digg were using XP as compared to 9% of OSX.
A new trend has also emerged where Apple and Google stocks are dugg to the front page the same day they hit highs only to fall by 5-10% in the next 2 days. - 1021, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I've been using OpenOffice for a long time but since my recent attempt at running Office 2007, I've been hooked. It's so much more productive than anything in the market right now.
Anyone know how to run it in Wine? - IQ70, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10@badtz:
Samsung Sansa has 5% share compared to the iPod. Which one plays music better? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11what a misleading article. it only discusses high-end where everything is expensive.
go to mid end and low end and see the "cheapness" of macs. - itisme, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I don't care about the price, I want to see an accurate breakdown of where and by whom these 2 units are manufactured.
My guess is that the majority of the components come from common suppliers and that the majority of cost to the consumer is pure profit based on brand and the respective/effective monopolies of the companies.
-
What we want to see is increased competition, slower and less wasteful replace/upgrade cycles, less spyware/drm/lockins and a break up of the big tech oligopoly of the 90s!
-
P.S. Bring back commodore and my amiga :-) - tupuli, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13So now the Apple-zealots would have us believe that Macs:
(1) have better build quality and better software/OS
(2) are cheaper
And then mysteriously BETTER + CHEAPER = 5% market share.
You're right Apple zealots, Macs are superior in all ways and cheaper than run-of-the-mill PCs. That lack of marketshare points to a vast PC conspiracy whose story will one day be told by an indie flick (starring Jeff Goldblum) distributed via iTunes.
Apple zealots, do you realize that your rabid fanboyism actually turns people AWAY from purchasing Macs? PC users get tired of hearing that they are "ignorant", "uncreative", and probably live in red states.
Buying a Mac doesn't:
(1) bestow great insight upon the buyer
(2) demonstrate intellectual independence
(3) help one achieve computing nirvana
it's just a ***** computer! - noamsml, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9"The cost of antivirus?"
My linux PC needs an antivirus less than your mac does.
"a Mac is the state of the art in microprocessor based systems, plain and simple."
I hate to break this to you, but not only does Santa Claus not exist, but macs and PC's use the microprocessors and generally the same components. The only real hardware difference is that macs don't use BIOS. - workingnonstop, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17Nobody who knows anything about Dell ever pays retail Dell prices for their computer. Dell ALWAYS (always) has sales and coupons going on that take a SIGNIFICANT chunk out of the listed purchase price. Apple prices are pretty much etched in stone.
- flipmeat, on 10/12/2007, -40/+48And, let us not forget of the Macbook Pro, as we bask in the glow of the RDF,
Included remote control (Hate Front Row? That's cool, it works with lots of apps.)
Glowy illuminated keyboard goodness
Expresscard slot
Killer software bundle unmatched by Vista, try though they might
Speaking of those guys, buy an MBP, and they don't get a freaking dime.
Shiny!
Go on, add me to your block list, see if I care. Pthbhpthbh!! - dacheetah, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9US$3000 is too much to spend on a laptop.
I spent ~US$630 (+US$80 or so for an gig of ram) on my compaq (which is now owned by HP) roughly a year ago, and it'll do pretty much everything I want it to do. And the things it won't do won't get done on a US$3000 mac either. The only thing this mahcine can't handle is the most recent generation of games, and when it comes to games, macs are next to useless anyway, the only games I've seen that are worth playing on a mac, work better in Ubuntu anyway.
I'm yet to see ANYTHING worth doing, that can be done on a mac and not on a cheaper PC.
That said, Macs are getting cheaper, and their hardware is getting more similar to the PC, and their software is getting more like *nix, so they are improving, but they got some ways to go yet... - dukrous, on 10/12/2007, -13/+20Halo 3 vs....oh wait
- Niten, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9The thing I'm more worried about is that at least two people seem to think it perfectly appropriate that an analogy could be drawn between operating system or computer manufacturer preferences, and religious evangelism.
You're right, emomakesmecry: Just find a system that works for you, and use it. - Koray, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Badtz, you are subscribing to the "Mac costs more than PC" school of thought, if you are making that analogy. His point, was that if cost was lower AND quality was higher, wouldn't apple have more than 5% market share.
If BMWs cost less than Hondas, you better believe they would have much more than 5%.
I don't care. I use a PC and a MBP. And I would much rather have a Honda than a BMW. ***** the maintenance charges on THAT *****. - pero69, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"I had no idea that Dell had 94% of the PC market."
I think they were just referring to the frequent dell vs. apple pricepoint debates. - pero69, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"IQ70: what are you using 98? xp doesn't bsod anymore. not for me."
I have to agree with this one... Unless the processor's getting too hot or there's a bad stick of ram maybe? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10This is about Macs vs. Dells, not Macs vs. PCs. Read the damn title.
- szembek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7IQ70: what are you using 98? xp doesn't bsod anymore. not for me.
- h0dg3s, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Why do all the mac fanboys assume that all pc users use Dells? Then if you say you custom built it, they ask if you custom wrote the OS too. Some people just have their head too far up their ass to pay attention to reality.
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