What is Digg?156 Comments
- tkatchev, on 10/12/2007, -5/+95"had all there support from someone that spoke proper English"
hu hu hu hu i think my brain just shut down from the irony overload. - thenativeraver, on 10/12/2007, -26/+96+lame
Just because of your screen name. - gronne, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23You mean Apple's just like every other money-hungry corporation? I'm shocked. But they make shiny things. Certainly that makes them somehow better right? No? I am just beside myself.
- bnoble, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Next time link DIRECTLY to the story, as mentioned above.
okay this is lame'd because of this and your ***** douchebag username. - drarau9, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19Yea agree I think we all need to learn English first and then blame others...
- felchdonkey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14I think he was saying that it is likely that your American ancestors emigrated from somewhere like Germany.
For the record, here's the CIA World Factbook entry on language in India:
English enjoys associate status but is the most important language for national, political, and commercial communication; Hindi is the national language and primary tongue of 30% of the people; there are 14 other official languages: Bengali, Telugu, Marathi, Tamil, Urdu, Gujarati, Malayalam, Kannada, Oriya, Punjabi, Assamese, Kashmiri, Sindhi, and Sanskrit; Hindustani is a popular variant of Hindi/Urdu spoken widely throughout northern India but is not an official language - Pplus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15So let me get this straight, we should round-up a jobless people in the US and Canada and put them in a call center to do tech-support? The other option being employing foreigners that can actually understand the problems? I will take a techie from India with a bit of an accent over an American that speaks perfect English but has no technical ability whatsoever...
Companies like to make money, Apple is no different. Do you think they were losing money by not outsourcing up to this point and taking it on the chin to support America? The change over obviously is a smart money saving move at this point. - drarau9, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16We should not blame the people from other countries, instead we should probably blame the companies outsourcing because its not the other countries fault that they have cheaper wages...
- rprins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9"But why oh why would you outsource when there are millions of jobless people in the US and Canada?"
US Worker: ~$12-17/hr
India Worker: ~$5-8/hr USD
Those are just estimates (poor ones at that), but the point I am trying to make is that every us company that ships overseas is doing it to save money. Yes, there are plenty of talented people to do the work here in the US or Canada, but they cost too much, demand too much, etc... it's just cheaper for these large companies to offshore it. This is common in consulting with IDC (India Development Centers) and for many other jobs as well. It is something that, in terms of economics, makes the most sense for these companies.
Also, if you watch Lou Dobbs on CNN, he rails on outsourcing just about daily. - Grayfox777, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Because it's cheaper. They don't have to pay them as much.
- VulnoX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Apple already makes the iPod's and whatever else in China, what makes you think they cared about the American worker at all in the first place?
- Godric, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"But why oh why would you outsource when there are millions of jobless people in the US and Canada?"
This assumes that those millions of jobless want to work, are physically capable of working, and have the knowledge to field tech support calls. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Then what are you going to do when, say, the sound stops working on your laptop and you need to get it checked out and sent back to be repaired or replaced? Oh, you're just going to take your powerbook apart and start ***** with it? Brilliant.
- GabeDiaz, on 11/27/2008, -1/+7The US does not have a national language. And unfortunately although we take English class from 1st grade many do not know how to speak properly etc.
I have spoken with several techs from India and they have been kind and very helpful, not to mention spoke very proper. Yea it sucks when business do all their customer support off seas and you cannot even speak to anyone in the same state let alone the same country but thats how companies can cut costs.
Only thing I hate is the phone connection on occassions and how many techs are soft spoken. - CalgaryTechGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Corporate Greed = Investor Greed
At the end of the day, companies would not be outsourcing to cheaper regions to improve profit margins if the investors didn't demand higher profits thus pushing the stock price higher. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yes, because there is absolutely nobody in America that would be willing to work after 5pm.
- Dominatus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"I don't know what you're talking about... In Canada the Jobless rate is something like 4%. Not exactly a lot of people out of work.... Maybe just in the US."
Canadian Unemployment Rate: 7%
US Unemployment Rate: 5.5%
source:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=canada+unemployment+rate
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=us+unemployment+rate&spell=1 - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11I resent what this guy said about speaking proper english. You know, I'm just a regular white American dude. But I DO know that in India, English is the de facto national language, used in combination with regional second languages. They speak wonderful English. I work with several Indians and they speak better English than I do.
- HuRyde, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1443762,curpg-1.cms
direct link. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"most of US citizens come from Germany historically"
Wow. I don't even know how to respond to that one. - jdelamater, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I am an Apple fanatic if you will. I do, however, want this to hit the front page. I am disappointed that Apple would outsource, even though it is the only option from a business stand point. I only protest because the people I have spoken to at Apple are "cool", and I can just BS with them about new products and ask questions about things. I find that outsourced IT people generally are very knowledgable, but sometimes lack the "American" style of personal skills. This, of course, stems from the fact that most people are comfortable enough to BS in a language that is not native to them.
PS: "KevinRoseIsGod" is the LAMEST username EVER. wow...
I ALSO want this to make the front page so people can bag on his/her username when the newest Diggnation is released. - apollo13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4all american companies make thier nuts & bolts in china, taiwan for cheap prices and sell it after branding it in USA for higher prices. Don't you think there is a loss of millions of american job? cut the crap...
- soundboy64, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5from the other side of the table, with India's booming tech industry and the fact that their time zones are exactlly 12 hours opposite ours, this may simply mean that AppleCare will now be 24/7 and that after 9pm ish your call will just go to the indian service centers.
- nigeltufnel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4(This was intended as a reply to "I already hear an Indian accent when I call Apple" -- maybe I need digg tech support?)
There are lots of Indian techies (devs, testers, support, even management) working in the US now, getting paid what an American-born employee would be paid, because there simply aren't enough properly educated Americans to do the work.
Businesses are asking the gov't to allow more HB-1 visas for this reason.
So stay in school. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I do have a problem with corporations shipping off jobs overseas. It is CORPORATE GREED. Nothing else.
- tehJR, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Dominatus
6.4% Canada (Feb 06)
4.8% USA (Feb 06)
THOSE are current, your's were from 2004.
Also, that little &spell=1 shows me you can't spell. - Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5US worker $12-17/hr ?? What are you smoking? Pass it over here. Call center workers in the US make around $6-9/hr.
As an aside, I think it's really funny how they give the Indian call center workers "English" names and teach them to speak in "American" accents. It's like comedy tech support! - ovidius, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I'm so upset I think I'm going to sell my Mac and buy a Dell! At least THEY care about the American worker!
- mstar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"someone that spoke proper English"... my experience is that they do speak proper English - better than most people I've met across the States, UK and Canada... Whatever the gripes of outsourcing and all this "keep American jobs American" rhetoric, most of these complaints are heavily condesending and border-line racist (not all - but most!)
- Godric, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Who do you think assembled your iPod? The Taiwanese and Chinese. What about Apple Computers? Do you honestly think there is a single Apple Computer factory inside the USA?
No offense, but welcome to the modern economy. Even with all this outsourcing, you are supporting American jobs. GOOD American jobs like high level design, engineering, marketing and creative work. Those are the jobs we would rather have, not answering phone calls or assembling electronics. - stlcadet11, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6You do know they put the edit comment and the spell check on the topics so that you can see if you spelled/typed wrong. It helps you to not look like a dumbass. Use it once and a while.
- felchdonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"You do know they put the edit comment and the spell check on the topics so that you can see if you spelled/typed wrong. It helps you to not look like a dumbass. Use it once and a while."
I love comment irony. I believe you meant to say "once in a while."
People who live in glass houses should not call people "dumbass."
(In the continuing irony dept: I meant to put this in the thread beneath this one. You can edit, but you can't delete...) - joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"I just thought I'd let you know that I'll be building my own Mactel boxes going forward."
Of course, those Mactel boxes you will be building will likely be 99% foreign parts, but, whatever... - drarau9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Which says Made in China.
- celtboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3yeup. this is me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_isolationism
- drarau9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2India is the world largest Democratic Country. We Americans like Democracy, hence we like India.
- 4answer2, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6The article fails to mention the call centers in Elk Grove and Austin and the occasional contract with outsourced phone techs in Canada and the USA.
I wonder how this move to India will affect the Apple employees in Elk Grove and Austin? - meaniketd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2India has a lot of out sourced jobs. there is problem of language but the labour there is cheap. it takes time for people to talk the right english,everyone can understand . english grammatically could be much better in india but spoken english depends on the area where you come from. there are different accents in US it self . out sourceing is not just one way people fail to see the trade that happens. comerse builds . there are companies in india that have bases here in US (coke).
- judgeFire, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Apple has had tech support centers in Cork, Ireland for quite a long time, servicing European customers.
Here's a typical job description: http://www.jobs.ie/ApplyForJob.aspx?Id=237485
Isn't India an English speaking nation, too? I seem to get funny accents whether it's Ireland, India or the US, so that's a moot point. Grasp of technical language and knowing their stuff is the only quality issue, really.
J - nesstheking1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Whenever I called apple an indian(from india) woman or man spoke, i assumed that they were already overseas
- JDOG, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3That does suck. Called Applecare yesterday about something and was delighted to deal with a naturalized American citizen who understood everything I said and it went both ways.
Dammit. - Godric, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Average people can benefit from globalization. Any smart Apple fan boy who spent as much on Apple stock as he did on Apple Computers could have made a nice wad of cash in the second reign of Jobs. By putting their enthusiasm into stock, not just consumer goods, they could have cashed in on the renaissance.
Indians get a good deal out of these jobs but we get a hell of a good deal too. They get tens of millions of dollars worth of tech support center contracts that create good jobs for lots of Indians. We get a multibillion dollar company that creates high-quality jobs and generates big returns for anyone in the world who holds stock. Now, who would you rather be in this situation.
This is win-win. But if you don't know about the modern economy, you better start learning about it and getting the right skills. - takt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3They have training centers in India for the locals to pick up Southwestern American accents. Basically a little touch of Cowboys and Belles. Their progress has been astounding.
More info from my source, which will hopefully stop ignorant comments like the story poster.
SRC: http://www.cbc.ca/nb/features/india-calling/ - leadx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I don't know what you're talking about... In Canada the Jobless rate is something like 4%. Not exactly a lot of people out of work.... Maybe just in the US.
- Godric, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4As an American, I couldn't care less about outsourcing of tech support. All my dealings with Dell's Indian tech support have been very good. Quite comparable to Dell's service waaay back in the mid 90s when they were doing it all in the states.
Indians have the language skills, the expertise, the infrastructure (thanks to our Internet) and the will to work. If they want those jobs, they can have them.
We get the benefits of lowered costs of consumer goods and more profitable companies (which anyone can benefit from by buying stock). And the competition is good for us... it keeps us on our toes and forces us to innovate the future's new jobs.
No kid says "I want to be a tech support phone operator when I grow up." They say they want to design things like iPods and Macs, or make the movies, apps and music than play on them. And if we play our cards right they can have those good jobs and we'll all be richer for it. - jmholloway, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2disappointment. :( that is all.
- joeee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yay money!
- codyman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Actually in India THEY speak proper english... we just speak american here :-)
- giant.robot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Whew, I'm glad it's okay to be racist against Indians. I thought for a while the only group of people I could safely have irrational fears of were Arabs. I was getting worried.
I think a good portion of people responding to this post need a reality check. The article itself is *****. Apple has call centers in and out of the US. As of right now Apple only contracts with a third party call center in India. If anything in this article is even true it's that Apple is opening their own call center in India. The article makes no mention of any of their other call centers.
India also happens to be 12 hours ahead of the US. It is expensive to run a call center overnight in the US because of the way labor laws are structured in most areas. A call made at midnight from to a center costs almost twice as much as a call made at noon. Putting a call center in a different timezone means not having to pay some folks swing and graveyard bonuses. There's also the small issue of 40% of Apple customers being outside of the US. A good portion of these are in Europe and Asia, quite a few timezones ahead of the US.
If anything it looks like Apple wants to switch from a 12 hour support window to a 24 hour one. You know to help out with the gajillion iPod owners and the growing number of Mac owners that can't make it into their retail stores or work while AppleCare is open for business (9a-9p EST). Way to make a mountain out of a molehill Diggers. - noeljohnhoward, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Those guys in India speak better than most of the people here in the US
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