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Apple seeds Leopard build 9A410, still plagued by lengthy bug list

appleinsider.com — A list of bugs accompanying the latest pre-release build of Apple Inc.'s Leopard operating system appears to have swelled somewhat since the Cupertino-based company last seeded the software to developers in early March. Of those issues, the most critical appear to affect the system's installation process, Apple's QuickTime digital media software...

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ojames 1 year 179 days ago, made popular 1 year 178 days ago

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caliform, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18It seems nobody has read that Mac OS X is now completely unified, like you installed UNO! Check this out;

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=295934&page=4

4 screenshots of Finder without brushed metal. Thanks, Apple, that'll make up for any delay ;)
- willynilly, on 10/12/2007, -17/+45THAT's what you're excited about? Why not consider the bad news in this picture: We're stuck with the same inexcusably ***** Finder. There's still no "up one directory" button. There's still the inexplicable "gear" thing in the toolbar. And what do you want to bet that the treeview still doesn't create subdirectories in the right place? And that the title bar doesn't show the full path of the current location?
  
  The Finder is a disgrace. Apple critics need look no further to disprove the "elegance" myth.
- buddhistMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -5/+39@ willynilly: "There's still no "up one directory" button. ... And that the title bar doesn't show the full path of the current location?"
  
  Apple-click the name of the window in the title bar, and you'll get the full path in a pop-up menu. You can use this menu to "move up" one or more levels in the directory structure, or alternately, you can use the Apple-up-arrow keyboard shortcut to move to the parent folder.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -16/+12Finder is the worst thing about OSX. The only thing I miss about Windows is the power of Windows Explorer. I'm still praying the 'secret' feature is a completely new Finder, and even though that'd be a crappy secret to brag about, it'd still make my day.
  
  It's a shame Path Finder isn't such a hog, I'd be happy using that if it wasn't.
- anasazi, on 10/12/2007, -20/+15i hope that green button finally actually maximizes rather than just making a window whatever the size OS X thinks it should be.
- xioner, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7...?
  I do not understand your hatred towards the Finder.
  
  The Gear button is somewhat pointless, but is a nice shortcut. You can easily add a button that shows the hierarchy of your current folder and lets you click back to any point (yes, it would be nice if it was in the default set instead of the gear).
  And, forgive me for being rude, but if you can't get the "tree" view to create folders in the right place, then you have some major malfunction. My mother is terrible with computers, but at least when she calls me for tech support she has no problem when I tell her to create a new folder while in the "tree" (actually called "columns") view.
  
  Finder has issues... I for one wish they would make it a bit more snappy and fix the hangup when a remote directory or drive gets disconnected unexpectedly... but there is far too much unnecessary Finder hatred.
- buddhistMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12@ willynilly: "There's still no "up one directory" button. ... And that the title bar doesn't show the full path of the current location?"
  
  If you Apple-click the window's name in the title bar, you'll get a pop-up menu with the full path, which you can use to navigate "up one directory" or more (or use the Apple-up-arrow keyboard shortcut to move to the parent folder). This capability also exists in Safari and Photoshop (Mac version, anyway), among others.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -8/+10xioner: I'm sorry, creating a new folder in finder is retarded however you look at it. Let me explain (follow along to see what I'm talking about).
  
  In tree view, I'd like to create a sub-folder of a directory called 'Pictures'. I select the 'Pictures' directory. Helpfully, there is NO 'add folder' option in the context menu (problem #1). No worries, I'll go to File -> New Folder instead. That creates a folder *at the same level* as the Pictures directory, not as a sub folder even though I had selected Pictures first (problem #2). So after creating the folder, I now have to hunt back through the folder list to find Pictures, and drag it in (problem #3).
  
  I also see it as a problem that there's no 'left hand pane' like in Explorer that allows you to easily navigate elsewhere on your computer (other than the favourites list). But I accept that's possibly an individual demand I have.
  
  If Finder suits you that's great, but generally it is an appalling piece of software for managing your files.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7willynilly: If you right click on the toolbar and go to Customize, you can also add a 'Path' widget. Not that that is any substitute for proper cross-hierarchical browsing of directories, but oh well.
- NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"i hope that green button finally actually maximizes rather than just making a window whatever the size OS X thinks it should be."
  
  The size of a maximized window is up to the app it belongs to. There's no point in making it any bigger than that.
  
  -jcr
- Kelmon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6@tizz66
  
  You what?
  
  Creation of folders is incredibly simple under Finder and a darned sight easier than Windows Explorer. The paradigm goes like this:
  
  1. Open the folder that you wish to create the new sub folder in (i.e. so you can see its contents)
  2. Press Cmd+N to create the new folder and name it
  
  Done. Makes a heck of a lot of sense and is much faster than going through contextual menus for a common action that needs a keyboard shortcut where the lack of one is an unforgivable oversight in Explorer (I'm sure there used to be one in the old Windows 3.1 File Manager).
  
  For creating folders give me the Finder any day of the week. However, a second pane would be useful and I do wish that I could sort the contents so that subfolders are listed before files.
  
  @anasazi
  
  The green button is wonderful as it is and is one of the reasons why I find OS X makes more sense than Windows. If I have a 30" screen, why in the name of Greek buggery would I want an 800*600 web page to fill it when all I want to do is see all that the 800*600 page has to show me? The 30" screen example is extreme but it's applicable to my 17" screen since it runs at 1680*1050. Maximise is a legacy function that is no longer needed - if you need it then look for applications that provide the option for a Full-Screen display.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5kelmon: Yeah, that works fine if you're in icon view, and that's how I create folders normally. Now try doing it in tree/list view. It *doesn't* create the new folder as a sub-folder of the one you selected. You should not have to change your view to do something as simple as creating a new folder.
- bebop717, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's not going to be out until Oct. so what is the big deal?
- halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@willynilly
  
  "We're stuck with the same inexcusably ***** Finder."
  
  Granted. This is why I often use the latest version of Mucommander.
  
  "There's still no "up one directory" button."
  
  This is easy to add, and can be emulated by briefly switching to pane view, which can also be done with a button that can be added to the Finder window.
  
  "There's still the inexplicable "gear" thing in the toolbar."
  
  It's only inexplicable if you're too lazy to try using it. There's a bit of configuration goodness there, as well as solutions to some of your other complaints.
  
  "And what do you want to bet that the treeview still doesn't create subdirectories in the right place?"
  
  Select the folder you want, switch to pane view or single view, and then switch back after creating the subfolder. Or you could just select the folder you want to be the parent before creating the folder.
  
  "And that the title bar doesn't show the full path of the current location?"
  
  Granted, this is annoying but you can easily add a drop down in the finder window that will let you select any of the parent folders for switching to them.
  
  Finder is poor, and most Norton Commander clones do a better job for many functions (How about merging folders when copying a subdirectory, at least as an option???? No, the fact that EVERY other OS offers the option is apparently a reason to Finder to avoid it). Your specific criticisms however can be addressed with five minutes of configuration.
  
  If you're going to criticize an application, please have some rudimentary knowledge of its configuration options before starting your critique.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Perhaps I'm just being dense, but isn't the 'stupid gear button' just another way to access the context menu?
  
  "And what do you want to bet that the treeview still doesn't create subdirectories in the right place?
  Select the folder you want, switch to pane view or single view, and then switch back after creating the subfolder. Or you could just select the folder you want to be the parent before creating the folder."
  
  But you shouldn't HAVE to switch folder view just to create a damn folder. Your second sentence is incorrect, selecting a folder first *doesn't* create a subfolder, it creates a folder at the same level as the folder you selected.
- bbardlbradd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@anasazi
  
  Imagine having safari open on a 30" HD Display.... and then hitting that green button and having it go full screen rather than resizing the window to however big it needs to be.
  
  Not fun.
benradler, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5lol maybe should check this out:
http://digg.com/apple/Mac_OS_X_Leopard_Delayed_to_meet_iPhone_Targets
- iosproject, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5^^ is just a cover for the real reason of delay,
- caketank, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@losproject:
  
  So what's the "real reason" for the delay, then?
  
  I don't understand why this requires a conspiracy theory. The iPhone runs a version of OS X. You need OS X developers to make that happen. If one OS X project needs extra manpower, another OS X project is going to lose some, simple as that.
exquemelin, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6grrr. I'm really bugged that the release is being delayed until October. ;(
- flag564, on 10/12/2007, -19/+28Watch your mouth!
  
  Don't you know it is now a "positive" thing that it is being delayed. That's the talking point.
  
  Also you have to remember to attack Vista in some way. Don't spread anything Negative about Apple!
- cal3b, on 10/12/2007, -20/+5I'm sick of Apple fanbois like you Flag...
- melat0nin, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1@cal3b
  
  I'm pretty sure he was joking you twot.
- macaddct1984, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I think that's the first time I've ever dugg you up, Flag.
- schnuck, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0melat0nin:
  I'm pretty sure he was joking you twot.
  
  you *just* pretty sure?
- shark615, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Whats a twot?
  
  DO you mean *****?
- cal3b, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3@melat0nin
  
  I guess irony is totally lost on you (and everyone else here).
  How anyone with half a brain could think someone calling Flag an Apple fanboi is being serious is rather worrying.
Ray_Justice, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15FTA:

"(Leopard) still carries with it a laundry list of nearly three dozen known issues"

A laundry list? A few dozen issues is nothing for an OS. I'm quite suprised that the number of known bugs is so low. I would have guessed it was still up in the hundreds.
- iainwall, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4well, it is apple...
- ChumpChief, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Thats a few dozen known AND public issues. Not all problems with a software project are necessarily made known to the public (I would even say a vast majority are usually not made public).
- shark615, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2What? If a Windows OS has a couple of bugs it is the end of the world but if OSX has pages of problems it is par for the course?
  
  Strange...
- gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2And yet Apple still plans on taking 6 months to patch them? That doesn't make much sense if there are only a handful of bugs.
mgkwho, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21How is 36 bugs a length list that plagues the seed? In the almost 100 million lines of code, this is nothing compared to the 500 or so Vista shipped with and the 1000 XP came with.

It's in beta. Give Apple a break.

-=|Mgkwho
- mgkwho, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3How critical a bug is doesn't always correlate with the amount of time it takes to fix.
  
  Ever program?
  
  Besides, look at the ones Vista has already shipped with. If the amount of negative articles on digg has been any indication, I thought Vista was past '38' by now :P.
  
  -=|Mgkwho
- mgkwho, on 10/12/2007, -12/+1
  
  .
Daolohua, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1Leopard in 08, perhaps?
- Kelmon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Anything is possible but I would highly doubt it unless the wheels come off the iPhone project, Leopard or something else that Apple has up their sleeve that they're not telling us about. I think it is entirely possible that either Leopard or the iPhone has hit problems which has meant that resources had to be moved in order to get the iPhone to ship on time (something that might still not happen). Once that's done however Apple should, at this stage of the game, be able to come up with a pretty accurate release date so I do have a reasonable amount of faith in the October deadline. Still, October is awfully close to 2008 so does it really make much difference?
sicapitan, on 10/12/2007, -6/+0How many freaking devs do they have, 30?
CarbonEclectic, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6We can reasonably assume that WWDC will be the launch event for the iPhone where there will be a ton of coverage not from just the regular Apple/tech news outlets, but all sorts of media outlets. With all of this press coverage, the stage is set to reveal more of the secret features of Leopard and get OS X some serious exposure to the consumers.
- kirk06, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm sure part of the reason for the delay is also to make sure one product doesn't steal the other's spotlight. I say, let them release iPhone and give it a nice push for a few months...Apple is really banking on that phone. Then, let Leopard come out in the fall and Apple gets some more time to shine.
StartFragment, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4They have all been plagued by a lengthy list of bugs, its just with the last one that they started to release the list of common bugs. This is done so developers won't be reporting duplicates.
JTtheXIII, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10When you stop caring or you lower your expectations, life becomes easier.
People should try it sometimes, especially for trivial things like an OS update for a product thats is already quite good to begin with.
muthafucka, on 10/12/2007, -7/+0STOP TROLLING!
digitallysick, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Finder does need an overhaul, i want tabs, an address/path bar, and maybe some other options
- 0x01, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Finder doesn't need tabs, finder's interface is fine as it is, if OSX is too simple for you, move on. OSX == simplicity. Best feature is spaces, can't wait to use spaces.
- pkulak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2No tabs. Everything is getting tabs now. They are useless:
  
  http://www.pkulak.com/articles/26
- Misaiato, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1desktop manager is a small app that does what Spaces will do. I'll even make the strong insinuation that Apple got the idea from this app. Hey its a great idea - and Apple benefits from ideas implemented from the community at large just as much as any other company.
skinfitz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Delays and now bugs makes me wonder if iPhone is the real reason for the delays, plus I think I will be sticking with Tiger until at least 10.5.1
- caketank, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Most likely, these bugs are the reasons for the delay, and iPhone development is the reason these bugs aren't fixed yet.
Johndude132, on 10/12/2007, -9/+0Mac OS is crap lol

I like their ad campaign tho
central183, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1I'm going to throw monkey poop at all of you. Get down and get to work!
nofrak1, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Endless bugs, delayed systems, frustrated users...

And Apple says microsoft copies _them_
Puttzy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3They are just trying to copy Microsofts business model
- gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Yeah, what a horrible ripoff of the Vista/Longhorn delays. Microsoft gave us years and all Apple can come up with is a few months!?
l2OI3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2[quote from article]
Despite the outstanding issues with Leopard, the growing consensus amongst insiders and industry analysts is that Apple anticipates a release of the software around the time its World Wide Developers Conference rolls around in mid-June.
[quote from www.apple.com/macosx/leopard ]
All these features and more are delivered to you in one universal, fully accessible, 64-bit operating system. Coming October 2007.

Inaccurate much?
- Misaiato, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1People were reporting the WWDC launch date the day before Apple re-neged and said it would be delayed until Oct. Are you holding a journalist up to the standard of Perfection?
WATYF, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Anyone else get a chuckle at the fact that there's a huge "Get Windows Vista" ad right below the Leopard screen shot (on that macrumors.com link above)? :o) Talk about not knowing your audience.
derekknight, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Building more and more sophisticated operating systems that support multiple processors is no cake walk. Just ask Microsoft. I'd much prefer that Apple make this thing solid than rush it out the door.

And, if anyone remembers MacOS Tiger 10.4.0-- it was pretty touch and go for about a month after release.

Take your time, Steve.
- Kelmon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yup, I remember the early releases of Tiger. Panther from Day 1 was bullet-proof for me but I had quite a few kernel panics with Tiger until around 10.4.2. This delay, as weird as it sounds, makes me happy. It should also be noted that the development team for Panther is making Leopard so that also makes me happy.
kickarse, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I'm not a Mac zealot, or even own one, but it seems to me people are bitching about a slight delay in OSX of what maybe a 1year at the most. While Vista took how long to develop and it's still buggy as hell? Get a grip peoples!
coolbru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2While I agree that the finder is certainly not what it should be (or even was in classic), I still find it an improvement on Explorer. There are several very good finder alternatives, some of which have a split folders/contents view like explorer:

http://www.binarynights.com/
http://www.cocoatech.com/
http://www.ragesw.com/products/explorer.html

and the forthcoming http://www.bartelme.at/showroom/archive/filerun_icon

The thing I miss most in the Finder is what the "Click there it is" extension did on classic MacOS, providing a simple bridge between the Finder and application file selectors. An "open finder windows" menu in the file selector would be a good start.
- illt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1have you tried vista explorer? it;'s much better than either.
  having a persistantly visible linkable hierarchy of where you are in your hd is great.
Bratan, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0wait, I thought that OSX was the only operating system in the world that had NO issues or bugs, and 'just worked"? I guess Steve will eat crow when the iphone tanks and Leapord will be pushed to 2008
- DonnieMarco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1bratan: OSX Tiger 10.4.9 'just works'. OSX Leopard 10.5 - a substantial revision of OSX - is still in development and won't be released until October 2007. That is why, as yet, it doesn't quite work properly. Remember this article relates to a pre-release build for developers; it is not a retail version. Developers are clever people who help Apple release software that 'just works'. If you need anymore details, ring me in June on my iPhone.
Zombi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Ah what does it matter. It isn't coming out till October, they have plenty of time to fix it.
Deuterium, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1October release??????? Not a frackin chance from what I see, maybe October 2008 is more reasonable.
m00nmaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Once and for all, we know that Apple's Headquarters are in Cupertino. Please, PLEASE, stop mentioning that in the description.

That is all.
guerrilla_suit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's all iphones fault. Ha.

I'm good with Tiger. It's not like any delay with Leopard is making me jump to using only Windows. I doubt anyone is really surprised that there is a delay. I'm sure there will be more delays.
mrfx2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1plagued by lengthy bug list = software in general
darkten, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The current dev builds of MacOS X 10.5 are by far the worse dev uilds, for the longest stretch of time of any I recall back to 10.0.

10.0 was dog slow, but functional.The 10.5 builds are pretty bad, and have been since WWDC last year. When I say bad, I mean:

"With previous dev builds of the former OS releases, a dev could at least run them as a day-to-day OS (tho not advised) and still get things done."

With 10.5, I have found this to be pretty impossible, and suspect it will continue to be the case until June; the current stuff is more like...a frankenmix.

Methinks the June releases will e when folks can "hunker down" on 10.5 and really get to work, should they choose to do so.
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Apple seeds Leopard build 9A410, still plagued by lengthy bug list

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