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Apple says iPhone will Sell because People feel Free Phones are Worthless

bloomberg.com — "A lot of people pay zero for the cell phone. Guess why? That's what it's worth,'' Apple Chief Operating Officer Timothy Cook said yesterday.

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  • TheDude77, on 10/12/2007, -39/+14Wtf? Has he been talking to Jack Tretton?
    • nixonrichard, on 10/12/2007, -18/+238I agree, those free cell phones ARE worthless. All they can do is make calls, store contacts, and play cheap little games. You can't even play music on them, surf the Internet, or edit your thesis. What good is a phone if you can't install an "order pizza" widget on it? The worst part about them is they last forever. You could be stuck with one for 5 years before you drop it in water and get the opportunity to buy a new phone. Nice expensive phones like iPhone, on the other hand, give you the opportunity to buy the latest version (or color) when you sit down and the screen cracks because it was tilted funny in your front pocket.
    • negativefx, on 10/12/2007, -6/+61nokia 6030 is $30 from cingular.... indestructible, great reception, and NO CONTRACT. that's the go phone price.

      already regretting a $400 phone that drops calls left and right.
    • aliengoods, on 10/12/2007, -7/+63I had a $50 cell phone. It had a crappy LCD backlit display, had a choice of 5 ringtones, and played 2 crappy games. The battery lasted for 3 days unless you were talking all of the time, it charged to full capacity in an hour, it was very small and lightweight, and the reception was crystal clear. The only reason I had to get rid of it was because it stopped reading my SIM card.

      I miss my worthless phone.
    • jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -16/+16I have a razr v3t and I love it.... the iPhone doesn't offer any compelling reason for me to change when its price point is $500 and my razr was $100 (both prices are low end with a 2 year contract).
    • gxcdesign, on 10/12/2007, -20/+3Free phones = build quality and what it lacks...


      I hate flip phones anyway
    • drathosX3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17In the UK most phones are free on contract and they're all relatively good phones.
    • daedalus1982, on 10/12/2007, -9/+6yet in the face of all our common sense...we know they're right. And people will continue to buy the more expensive option regardless of the fact that this piece of eye candy will spend more time in your pocket than being used.
    • SnuKs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Most people just want to make a simple phone call on a phone. Some want to take pics, listen to music, surf the web, AIM, directions, ect.. on their phone. It's all about preference.

      At the end of the day though Free > $600
    • ipodsweatshop, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11A good phone costs about $100 after a rebate (money swallowed by the provider to make the phones cheaper, this is why you have to stay for 2 years). That's about the sweet spot for getting good enough parts in the phone to get better reception than the free phones. At that price they do exactly the same stuff as the free phones, they just do it better. $500 is absurd for a non-smartphone. Apple is gouging people and going to lose big. Also the 2008 3G version assures that any not-rich people are just going to wait it out.

      iPhone Rev A = Newton 2.0
    • nickj6282, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Ha. I used to get whatever freebie Nokia the cell phone company was pushing at the time, but last year I decided to spend a bit and spent $150 (with contract) on a Motorola SLVR. Damn thing has broken more times that I can count. I've replaced it twice with insurance and no less than ten under warranty. Whenever I have to wait for a replacement, I stick my SIM card into one of my old freebie Nokias (which still work just dandy) and I'm golden. Seriously, one of those Nokias is like 4 or 5 years old now and still works like new. It doesn't look like much anymore, but it works fantastic.

      That sweet SLVR with it's MP3 ringtones, iTunes, and Yahoo Messenger is great, but if I can't make a call then all that other ***** is worthless.
    • ryanissuper, on 10/12/2007, -2/+36Who the ***** uses cell phones anyway. I have an aboriginal bolo whip for communication and a ball-in-a-cup for entertainment.
    • rheaume, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Apple's effort to cut an extravagant, useless features from its forthcoming phone doesn't quite mesh with its stated iphone sales strategy; namely, Apple CEO Steve Jobs hope that "consumers [will] think to themselves, 'I will work more hours to buy one'."
    • bpapa, on 10/12/2007, -19/+7Good thing that Apple's initial goal is 1% and not 100%.

      I'm buying one regardless of price point. I know Apple makes awesome products and not only is this is a cool internet device but it's the best iPod ever. I'm sure enough people agree with me to hit that 1%.
    • j37hr0, on 10/12/2007, -9/+10@bpapa There are enough people like you. I wouldn't buy one, but I'm happy with my Nokia 6265. I don't need a new iPod either. The iPhone seems like a gimmick to me. Like Sony's EyeToy and the Wiimote. Gimmicky/=Innovative.
    • GnKnight1, on 10/12/2007, -16/+9Non-smartphone? Gimmick?

      Have you people actually watched the demo during the Macworld keynote? At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I have to say that the iPhone is DEFINITELY different than anything on the market today. And to call it a non-smartphone is ludicrous.
    • ChumpChief, on 10/12/2007, -12/+44You know, I try really hard to like Apple, or at least feel neutral about them, but this is ridiculous.

      To me, they're implying two things here that are really insulting/stuck up.

      1. "Although we have ZERO experience in the cell phone market, we know better how to make cell phones than anyone else. All existing phones are garbage because they are not the iPhone."
      --While they may come out with the best phone the world has ever seen, it would be much more prudent of them to at least wait until it's released before talking trash about other phones. If they aren't received as well as Apple hopes, this stance will start to look pretty stupid. This is not an easy market to enter and getting off the ground will take a lot of work on their part.

      2. "Consumers are just begging to spend a huge sum of money on our products. In fact, a high price tag is a privilege."
      --A high cost to consumers is a positive thing for Apple, not for the consumer. While it's a common fallacy that higher price = higher quality, $600 is high enough that consumers will research the phone before breaking the bank. Common sense indicates that the consumer will go for the cheapest phone that meets their needs.

      So please Apple, just make a great product and release it for the appropriate price, whatever that may be. Trash talking won't convince people to buy your phone, quality will.
    • Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -24/+7 by ChumpChief 1 minute ago

      You know, I try really hard to like Apple, or at least feel neutral about them, but this is ridiculous.

      To me, they're implying two things here that are really insulting/stuck up.

      1. "Although we have ZERO experience in the cell phone market, we know better how to make cell phones than anyone else. All existing phones are garbage because they are not the iPhone."

      2. "Consumers are just begging to spend a huge sum of money on our products. In fact, a high price tag is a privilege."

      ------------
      Classic spin Chump, Misquote and then blast them based on your misquotes.

      You're a ***** tool.
    • rheaume, on 10/12/2007, -12/+4Wow, digg's comments had a heart attack for a second there, digg this down please
    • ChumpChief, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Keyword: "implying"

      I never said they were quotes, I said that was the message I took from them. If you disagree that my points are valid, please feel free to post your own opinions.
    • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2The high cost is a benefit for the consumer IF you get value in return. I personally have used cheap cell phones for a long time, and universallly they do rather suck. They wear out too quickly, have poor audio, and are not easy to work with generally to do much more than the basics.

      What I have always wanted was a Palm based phone that worked well, Palm because I liked the earlier UI direction much more than Window Mobile. The Treo was also too kludgey for me and the Palm OS advancements pretty much froze.

      Fast forward to 2007 and fianly we have what looks to me like the thought evolution of Palm applied to a phone interface. It's not that I WANT to pay a lot for a phone. It's that I don't MIND paying more to get more, and until now what I've "gotten" through cheap and even expensive phone and smart phone options I've tried has been annoying. People will happily pay money to not be annoyed.
    • danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3I saw nothing in there about them saying all other cell phones are worthless. They said the free cell phones are worthless but mentioned nothing about other phones that people pay for. It seems to me that you chose to be offended.

      That being said I don't see myself spending $500 on a iPhone. Currently I have a Nokia that I payed $30 for. I upgraded from the free phones just to get bluetooth to sync via iSync. My current iPod is less then a year old and I don't plan on replacing it any time soon. It would be nice to not carry around two devices, but not $500 nice. By the time though that I need to replace my current iPod an iPhone will likely run in the $300 range with 16GB+ of flash storage then I might bite. I would prefer to have the choice of a shorter contract and not have my phone subsidized though. With or without me though there will be plenty of people with $500 to spend on this thing.
    • johnpaul191, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Apple does not expect the iPhone to capture the phone market like the iPod has for music players. they said that at the launch. there are a lot of people that use a smart-phone and having one that works seamlessly with OS X makes the price almost irrelevant. if the competition can not sync, or can not reliably sync, with OS X, it's almost worthless. that puts the iPhone (potentially) in a class of its own. the Treo running Palm OS is the only current option, but i know soooo many people that say it's 50/50 if they can sync. some say they never can and they lose calendar events and contacts from address book, and i know people have said they never have a problem and the phone syncs flawlessly. you lose your meetings and contacts a few times and that $400 iPhone doesn't seem so unreasonable (considering the price of the Treo).

      i have a regular clamshell and i can say i have had incredibly inconsistent luck with iSync (it's a supported Moto phone). i have had random contacts completely deleted from phone and computer, as well as scheduled events (meetings, doctor appointments bla bla bla). i gave up on regular syncs because i spent so much time patching lost data. i would be totally interested in an Apple OS phone, but have no need for the first gen iPhone.
    • JerodSlay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8So we're reduced to deciding between free cell phones and $600 cell phones? That argument doesn't make sense. Yeah free cell phones are crap. That's why I buy a $200 cell phone.

      Free cell phones are crap, and $600 cell phones are too much. Any cell phone makers want to take the middle ground. I can hear it now.

      "we think our phone will sell because free cell phones are crap, and $600 cell phones are too much." There's the winner
    • dissident, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4seems like just another overpriced product purchased by snobs who want to think they actually have something superior, when a similar product can be found of more rugged durability for half the price. They're trendy products, nothing more.
    • pinsomniac, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Worthless? Let's see: I can get a Samsung A900M with a $30/mo voice and *unlimited* data plan. The phone has a large screen, does e-mail (via GMail/Sprint e-mail) and web (via Opera), streams media (via Orb), watch TV (MobiTV), get directions (Google Maps/TeleNav), play countless games, and more.

      Cost of the phone? At most, $29.99 with the same two-year contract required with the iPhone.

      This phone has all the functionality (and more, since it supports EVDO and third-party apps) that the iPhone has. In fact, the only differences are in interface and voicemail.

      I don't think the few differences between the two justify the $470 difference (or sacrificing fifteen months of service at $30/mo). I get the sense most will believe the same.
    • poxonyou, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Definitely not buying one. It's nice to have a good camera, phone, and mp3 player all in one device, but not if it's gigantic and expensive...hence the reason I never bothered buying any other smartphone.
    • gr8one, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4People will spend over $500 a year on pizza, so I don't buy it that the iPhone is too expensive. Simply put, it does thing that no other phone can or will do in the near future, and it does it in a way that is the best thing since sliced bread. Why not invest in a phone that will make you instantly the coolest kid on the block, rather than wasting it incrementally on food that's making you fat and uncool.

      /sarcasm
    • thirdoptical, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@ pinsomniac:
      "Worthless? Let's see: I can get a Samsung A900M with a $30/mo voice and *unlimited* data plan. The phone has a large screen, does e-mail (via GMail/Sprint e-mail) and web (via Opera), streams media (via Orb), watch TV (MobiTV), get directions (Google Maps/TeleNav), play countless games, and more."

      I'm calling BS. i have sprint, and had the A900M (which i just ditched and upgraded to the M610) 30/month with unlimited EVDO is a fantasy, the a900's "large screen" is only large compared to the crap free phones (it's certainly not 160dpi like the iPhone), it's email support is mediocre at best, web "via opera" is a third party add on, streaming media / tv is a joke for speed and quality, getting direction is a MONTHLY COST, the games are lame, and whatever "more" you're talking about probably sucks as much as the rest of this list.

      "Cost of the phone? At most, $29.99 with the same two-year contract required with the iPhone."

      BS again. it's $229 with contract, so even with the $150 you MIGHT qualify for if you're not a sprint user, it's still $79.

      "This phone has all the functionality (and more, since it supports EVDO and third-party apps) that the iPhone has. In fact, the only differences are in interface and voicemail."

      You're an idiot if you believe this. does the 4gb - 8gb capacity not matter? your a900m doesn't even have expandable memory, so you're stuck with a worthless 60mb of onboard memory. How about WiFi? that doesn't exist? this list of stuff you conveniently forgot, or are just to dim to know, goes on and on.

      "I don't think the few differences between the two justify the $470 difference (or sacrificing fifteen months of service at $30/mo). I get the sense most will believe the same."

      i get the sense that even if the iPhone were $45 and made of diamonds you'd find some idiotic reason not to buy it.

      Now, the fact that it isn't available for Sprint (and likely wont be for years) ...now THAT is a legitimate complaint (that you didn't really make) but i would have agreed with you, had you said it.
    • pinsomniac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ thirdoptical

      ...what? Have you never heard of SERO? Go to http://www.sprint.com/sero and see for yourself. This is a now-public plan (I believe the current public e-mail access address is savings@sprintemi.com) that costs $29.99/mo for 500 anytime minutes, unlimited EVDO, and more. (I actually pay $25/mo, but that's a different story.) Still a fantasy to you?

      E-mail support is mediocre? If you cared so much about e-mail, you can pick up a Q with QWERTY for $99. I personally use it just to look at my inbox, so it works well for me. I see nothing wrong with counting Opera Mini as it's a FREE third-party app, as is Google Maps. (Yes, TeleNav GPS has a monthly fee, but AFAIK the iPhone doesn't even offer GPS, so...). The games might not be that great, but they're plentiful (and considering I'm a Tetris junkie, it's good enough for me.)

      If you believe Orb is a joke for speed and quality, either you're a stickler for quality or you've never tried it. It works just fine on-the-go -- I personally use it to watch Daily Show episodes when I'm away from my computer. I'm actually considering getting finding a smartphone with video out (or a PDA with bluetooth and video out) to use it to stream movies to my TV.

      This brings me to my next point: No, 4-8GB and WiFi does *not* matter to me. Why? I've beat out DSL with my EVDO connection speed. I can stream anything I damn well please to my phone. I can connect anywhere with more than acceptable speed. I can't imagine why a phone would need 4-8GB to begin with.

      $229 for the phone? Go back to the website I linked you to. Try $200 less than the price. I've seen local Sprint stores and kiosks give the phone away. If you paid that much, you're getting ripped off. At $45, I would have said the iPhone is an amazing value and would have supported it wholeheartedly, although I wouldn't have bought one for myself. (I dislike the iPhone's lack of tactile feedback.)

      What people like you don't understand is that you don't need your phone to be a swiss army knife. Trust me -- I mean no disrespect towards the iPhone. I followed the SE P800/900 diligently. I wanted the Moto MPX and Treo 600. But you know what? These phones were far too clunky. They did a lot, but they were very impractical. The Samsung interface, applications, and plan stuck a perfect balance of practicality and functionality.

      I think Apple solves this issue elegantly, but has priced their phone well above where it should be. This is a consumer phone priced for enterprise, and by doing this they're risking losing the business of both groups. I have yet to hear of any corporations taking the phone as a serious alternative to the Blackberry, nor have I heard of anyone actually wanting to switch to AT&T just for the iPhone.

      I've referred five people to Sprint in the past month for the very reasons I mention above. Still in disbelief?
    • Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1 by ChumpChief 21 hours ago

      Keyword: "implying"

      "I never said they were quotes, I said that was the message I took from them. If you disagree that my points are valid, please feel free to post your own opinions."

      Your opinion is your opinion, that doesn't make it valid. And using quotation marks inappropriately IS MISQUOTING.


  • threepio, on 10/12/2007, -35/+8How many non-techies do you know that love their phone? I can only speak from my own personal experience but my father hates his, the wife hates hers, my mother won't use one and I've personally had the urge to toss my own phone out the window of a highrise on more than one occasion.

    I'm not saying that I'm part and parcel in for an iPhone at this point but he does have a point - most free phones are crap. Sure they've got cameras and address books and internet access and yada yada yada - they're horrible at making calls. For me, the killer app on the iPhone is the phone itself. If it works and it works well then I'm in; the widescreen touchscreen iPod, visual voicemail, GPS, wifi, widgets and all the rest are just very sweet icing on the cake.
    • negativefx, on 10/12/2007, -6/+24free phones usually get better reception and longer battery life than the 'nice' phones. especially since they usually ignore 3G signal which are great for draining your battery life four times as fast as a non-3g signal.

      check out the talk time and standby time on a 3g phone vs a non-3g if you don't believe me...enjoy the 2hr max talk time on the iphone :)
    • jamesrdorn, on 10/12/2007, -12/+5@negativefx - one thing you dont understand is the iPhone is not 3G - your comment is bunk.
    • ipodsweatshop, on 10/12/2007, -12/+5negativefx, you're completely wrong and really have no idea what you're talking about. 3G = data only, period. Nothing to do with making calls. Data calls on a 2G phone are just as hard on the battery, good try though.
    • DreKor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+133g tends to drain your battery if you're in a suburban or rural area since those places typically arent built out with 3g towers. So, your phone spends a good chunk of it's battery life repeatedly checking to see if it can find 3g.
    • samarisi, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4why are the people who are speaking factually getting dugg down? the iphone is not 3g. not at all. negativefx is straight up wrong, yet he gets dugg up. i dont understand all of the iphone haters that are talking trash before it even comes out. i dont know, could just be me, but i think we should wait at least until it starts selling to take a side on whether it will be a good or bad phone.
    • danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5Hating the iPhone is the new popular thing to do. Most of them don't even know what they are talking about like negativefx and the 3G comment. How many comments have you seen like this, "There is nothing revolutionary about the iPhone there have been touchscreen phones before" ignoring MULTI-TOUCH.
    • ChoadNamath, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@danielwsmithee

      "How many comments have you seen like this, "There is nothing revolutionary about the iPhone there have been touchscreen phones before" ignoring MULTI-TOUCH."

      Yes, "MULTITOUCH!!11!" is new, but it's not necessarily "revolutionary". The guy who took the bicycle and made the tricycle must have been a genius!!1!
    • danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Until someone else comes out with a multi-touch phone you simply can not say that there phones that do the exact same thing already on the market. This phones success will ultimately depend only on one thing how easy is it to use and navigate. If multi-touch is the revolution Apple thinks it is then it will succeed. If it is simply as you claim a tricycle to the already existing bicycles then it will flop. Which means any comparison of the phone prior to getting it in your hands and using it is pointless, because you don't know anything about the main feature.
  • rtorcato, on 10/12/2007, -21/+10he's right. i see people throw their phones around like it's a peice of garbage and cradle their ipod like a precious baby.

    Fact is, if this phone was $1000 it would still sell. As time goes by it will be $150, but early adopters can always expect to pay more.
    • aliengoods, on 10/12/2007, -9/+27$150?? Sure, call me in 5 years when that is a reality. But wait, by then there will be much better phones on the market anyway. And to be quite honest, from the specs I've read on the iPhone, there already are.
    • geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20Oh please, the RAZRs launch price was $500 as the iPhone's entry price (that _everyone_ overlooks). The price dropped precipitously as Motorola made back their original investment and people like Cingular started slashing at the prices to get them in the hands of people who wanted them (and more importantly, get them to sign a contract with Cingular, which is where the real money has always been made).
    • antistupid, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6Phones are usually more durable than ipods. Whether or not people know this, they have been designed to take a beating (and by beating i mean dropped from ladders, sat on, banged against walls, etc.). The ipod, on the other hand..

      Not to mention alot of people still think of the ipod as a fashion accessory as opposed to a music player.
    • GnKnight1, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2@aliengoods

      It won't take 5 years for Apple to release a sub-$200 phone. Believe me. This iPhone is just like the original iPod.
      It ran $500 at launch as well. And then dropped in price and then less expensive models came out.

      Also, to judge the iPhone simply by it's raw spec. numbers is a mistake. The real selling point of this phone is its interface and ease of use, along with its vast feature set. And REAL WEB BROWSING AND EMAIL! And you say that other phones on the market have this? Maybe soon, but not currently.
    • Coffeedemon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5geminitojanus:

      I know what you're saying (my Razr was 99 bucks CDN a year ago) but in my experiences I've never seen Apple do a price drop on anything no matter how old it gets - I'd bet on iPhone gen 2 coming out at the same price with a few new features and replacing the first gen product rather than the first gen dropping in price over time.
    • GnKnight1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@geminitojanus

      Actually, germ. I looked it up.

      Original iPod price = $399, $499 (which is equivalent to iPhone price.)
      Current iPod prices = $249, $349 (for 5th gen iPod with video)

      So they do drop in price. Maybe not by hundreds, but they do drop. And look for other less expensive phone models to be released as well. Just have to give it time.

      Also, I think Apple's design principles are sorely needed in the cell phone market. Apple felt they could make a better MP3 player and look what happened. Why think they can't do the same thing with phones? I do agree with you germ -- Apple's prices do not fluctuate as much as other manufacturers' prices do. But it will go down some.
    • GnKnight1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@geminitojanus

      Oopps! Sorry. The iPhone prices are $499 and $599. My bad. $100 more than original iPod prices.
  • lorductape, on 10/12/2007, -25/+3DUPE

    http://www.digg.com/apple/Apple_COO_Tim_Cook_iPhone_is_revolutionary_you_get_what_you_pay_for

    and THEY were first.
  • Discipline99, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22Please. Most people I know use their mobile phones as, well, phones. Why would they need anything else?
    • mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -25/+2it really looks nice. Bet you will end up buying one.
    • negativefx, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4@discipline: the phone is the most important part of the device without a doubt, but some people don't like carrying around all those other devices. i buy phones with good media players exclusively so I don't have to lug around a dumbass ipod as well.
    • mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -15/+3Cmon you know you want it...
    • Dumbledorito, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Yeah, my biggest concern would be battery life. I'd hate it if an important call got cut off because I'd been draining the battery listening to mp3s all day long.

      An mp3 player that could receive a signal from your phone that a call is incoming and give you a little heads up so you could pause and switch devices would be cool. Plus, it keeps the power sources separate.
    • AxeSwinger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I use my phones for calling but I also use it as an electronic memory. If I'm browsing books I'll snap pictures of books I want to buy. Need to remember what to get at the grocery store I just look at the pirctures of empty containers I took. Want to grab that bottle of merlot I liked well you get the idea. In additon being able to access gmail has helped me on many occasions. If I want to remember a meeting take shot of the business card and name it the date and time of the meeting.
      The funny thing is I rarely use my camera for taking pictures of people the quality suck but since I figure my wetware memory is vga it's great for instant access.

      Well it's a system that works for me.
  • joe90210, on 10/12/2007, -4/+34i don't get it, how does that make people pay 600$ again?
    • halik, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21Yeah i miss the logic in that statement also.

      People like to pay $0 for cellphones, because they see it as disposable commodity. Therefore they will pay $600 for iphone. Huh?
    • mandarin, on 10/12/2007, -13/+11Vanity.
    • threepio, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6The logic is usually driven by "You get what you pay for"

      People will pay $0 for something that they think is worth $0. There's intrinsic value in the iPhone (so they're saying) provided by the widescreen video iPod, the multi-touch screen, the exclusive tech (visual voicemail, widgets) and the styling; these points should drive a customer to pay for the quality they want - or at least, that's Tim's point.
    • xoineg, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4same reason people buy BMWs, Lexus, or designer shoes, image, image, and more image. If it looks cool, and it has a brand name people will buy it.
    • geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3"i don't get it, how does that make people pay 600$ again?"

      Well, for one, the COO isn't talking to you, he's talking to Wallstreet about the price, which sees it purely from a business perspective. Phones that are free to users are loss leaders and more importantly aren't of any value to the company's /selling/ them. I agree wholeheartedly with the mass majority here, and I keep a Nokia 1100 around just in case my real phone ever dies or I have an emergency and need to make a call. But, I also see the value in having a phone that's more expensive and full of features I'd actually like to use, which is what the COO is getting at.

      Placating Wallstreet is the biggest problem at this point in time; the iPhone will sell itself, just as the iPod did. The problem now is getting it into people's hands.
    • esconsult1, on 10/12/2007, -8/+1Obvious that many of you don't need what the iPhone offers. Its the whole internet communicator part dudes & dudettes.

      There's a core audience of us who've been using Treos, and Blackberries and all that stuff for the longest time. We've pushed those devices to the edge and to be able to get full-fledged mobile Internet with the iPhone + all the other great features is a dream come true for high-end mobile professionals. Please don't waste my time saying that there are other devices with the same feature set, because all those other features are either crippled or the device user interface or form factor makes them painful to use (see: full internet on Treo/Blackberry or sending text messages on a numeric keypad).

      If all you want to do is get/send phone calls, then get the lower cost phones by all means. I'll get one for my daughter and other low-need family members. The idea is to get what you need.

      Just because you don't need the features of an "intenet communicator" doesn't mean that others dont.
    • Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3I paid $499 for a 20Gig iPod in 2002. I was and am still very happy with that purchase. It really improved the quality of my life. And although I've since bought other iPods for less, it still works and is used to feed outdoor speakers.

      So $499 or $599 for a device that does everything the iPod does and a whole lot more doesn't really seem like a lot to me if it has the ability to make my life easier and more fun.

      Time will tell if it is popular, but there were many more who scoffed the iPod at inception than are scoffing the iPhone now.

  • kenvsryu, on 10/12/2007, -20/+4Free phones can't do landscape.'Look,
    l
    a
    n
    d
    s
    c
    a
    p
    e.'
  • NewChar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+29I think most people hate their phone bills/contracts, not their phone itself.
    • halik, on 10/12/2007, -12/+4I love my plan!
      Sprint SERO is amazing:) $30/mo for 400 anytime mins, unlimited night and weekends, unlimited evdo and 500 SMS
    • negativefx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7400 anytimes? better hope all your friends are on sprint as well.....
    • halik, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Actually I have never even come close to hitting the 400 min limit. I do go over the text messages every so often (hurts @ 10c a pop), but never on the anytime minutes. I'm almost always at work during the "anytime" time window, so people don't tend to call me.

      Why is my first post getting dugg down btw?
    • omnivector, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8I disagree.. A lot of people hate their phones. The general consensus I've had with most of my friends is most cell phone OSes and UI suck
    • professorChaos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2dude that sucks i pay 55 a month for 1000 minutes unlimited nights and weekends unlimited incoming and unlimited cellular to cellular and 500 text messages, us cellulars phone selection might suck but the price is right i got a V3C and love it
    • danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I don't hate my phone but I do hate the software that runs on my phone. The biggest advantage I see with the iPhone is the fact that Apple has demanded so much control over it. You won't have to deal with getting a phone and finding out that the carier has locked all the features you bought the phone for in the first place. I remember my first bluetooth phone through AT&T they locked everything all I could do was sync my calendar.
  • Ub3rg33k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Odd reasoning considering most non-technophiles I know ALWAYS go for the free or drastically reduced priced phones when activating/renewing their cell phone plan.
  • tacom8, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6uh, only an idiot would think they are getting a phone for "free", it's razor blade marketing at its best...
    • negativefx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10hey, my birthday gillette mach 3 WAS a free razor blade. back off!
    • n00tz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@negative

      I'm still using mine 3 years later... they've made plenty of their money back on me in buying new blades. I quit using an electric after I got that.
    • EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's true that "free" phones are subsidized by contracts. It's also true that they don't give you a discount if you buy your own phone outright. So while that $200 phone for "free" might not really be free, it's still $200 less than the alternative.
  • Sithlrd, on 10/12/2007, -11/+3Hate my "free" phone. Big POS.

    You get what you pay for.
  • spoonard, on 10/12/2007, -3/+35Uh oh! Has the Apple marketing team been talking to the Sony marketing team?
    • sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Exactly what I was thinking. I'll know it's true if Apple starts telling me that the iPhone is smarter than me.
    • nickj6282, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Amen!
    • ahhell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Exactly. It's pompous ***** like that that stops me from being a customer.
    • thirdoptical, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0@ahhell -- "Exactly. It's pompous ***** like that that stops me from being a customer."

      whatever - it's clear you've already made your decision and are just looking for excuses. did you even listen to the quote? it's not by any means pompous, it's a very matter-of-fact business discussion. YOU decided it was pompous or arrogant to justify your weird irrational hatred towards some company.

      So, really, it's your own stubbornness that stops you from being a customer. or even better - and this might blow your mind - maybe it should be "it's their products that i do not want that keeps me from being a customer." - who gives a ***** about their "attitude"?!? is the product good? buy it! is it not good? don't buy it! if you operate at any other level, then, well, you're an idiot.
  • PabloMac, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6The topic of this article may or may not be true, but this Apple fanboy ain't buyin' no iPhone (as cool as it is) AND switch/commit to a lesser carrier. If and when the iPhone is made available to my carrier, that's when I'm jumping in, and not a moment before.
  • Langford, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19Maybe I'm alone in this, but all I want a phone to do is make and receive calls. Voice mail bugs me, I'm not interested texting, and I have no interest in loading one up with music. I'm especially not interested in spending a lot of money on a phone.
    • thirdoptical, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0@davidkeithjones -- "Phone are for calling, period."

      hahaha - i'm sure that'll be a quaint little quote in a few years. how very old fashioned of you.

      how about this one: "who would want to make calls from anywhere but their house?!? phones are for inside your house. period."

      here's another good one: "Computers are for science nerds. period."
  • DiggsOnlyNeoCon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8No, actually free phones are free because the carrier is absorbing the cost.
    • Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2yeah... You're a clever one... Thanks for pointing that out.

      Since the customer pays the carrier, which is where the carrier gets the money to absorb the cost of the phone.... Need I go further?
  • undersky, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6While it is true for most phones, but not all of them. I paid $350 for my BlackBerry 8800 and it's worth every penny of it. In fact, I will pay for it even if it's $500. As for iPhone, I won't pay for it. I will pay for a $500 Wide Screen Video iPod with 80GB and 5 hours of video viewing though. As for phones, I think BlackBerry does much better until proven otherwise.

    • halik, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I would pay $500-$600 for iphone with sliding querty keyboard, EVDO and open SDK. I mean the price point isn't bad for a pda phone (treo 700p came out around that), but it's too much for a consumer phone with mp3 playback.
    • aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -11/+1You paid 350 for a Blackberry? Are you a contractor with a need for one or are you employed? If the later, then you are a sucker. You don't need one and if you did, your employer should have paid for it. If it is for personal use, then you are even more of a geek and a sucker than I thought you were. You wasted money on something that is meant for "business" use.
    • undersky, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Right so there are only two possibilities of who I am? i don't want to disclose my personal information, but could I be running my own web based commerce that I need instant feedback to customers who submit forms or correspondence online? Could it be that i work for a non-profit organization or small business that I co-found that is not a big corporation? Could it be that I am an independent CPA or attorney?

      If you really want to know who I am you can read my profile
    • thinkart, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0you contradicted yourself...re-read.
    • aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Actually, it really does not matter who you are, you don't "need" a blackberry. Nobody is so important that they "need" to be tied to the ball and chain that we know as email. If you are working for someone and you have a blackberry, you are selling yourself into slavery for no good reason.

      If someone really needs to get in touch with you, they can "call" you.
    • mobilehavoc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Me thinks Aristotle is jealous he isn't "important" enough to have a Blackberry.
    • vinieux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Funnily I still don't own a cell by choice... And what I say is, if people want to get in touch with me, then they can get in touch me when I am at home, or in the office. If I need to be on call at any and all times, then I might as well also receive my mail at any and all times...
  • demonotaku, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I got my phone for free. And it works fine. It has a camera and tons of features. I've dropped it on the ground tons of times. Hell, I even dropped it in a toilet and it still works (had to dry out for a while but it works.) This sounds to me like typical Apple *****.
  • aristotle0dude, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7Those "free" phones are not "free". If you really believe they are "free", then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

    Their price for "lease to own" the phone is built into the monthly bill and you will end up paying several times more than the retail price for them over the course of your contract.

    Not only are you paying through the nose for those "free" phones but they will usually disable features and install their own crappy browser on the phone to further cripple it.
  • ChewyBass, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7We seem to be living in a time when bad is converted to good, and good is considered phenominal. I get the feeling that PR from companies is bordering on Think Speak, where they speak and we are suppose to believe it.
    • mutatron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3But that's called "marketing". When this guy says free phones are worthless because you get what you work for, he's just preying on the minds of people who buy into that kind of talk. Frankly, I think it's a legitimate thing to do. If people are that much into status that they can't see the value of a free phone, more power to people who prey on that. It helps distribute the wealth.
    • Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Saying that so-called free phones are junk is no more misleading than describing so-called free phones as free.
  • Raian, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3He's totally right. Most cell phones seems kludged together, feature cheesy designs and showcase hardware that was impressive back in the 90s. Look at how long it took for cell-phones with colour screens to hit the mass market... It's pathetic... especially when you had a company like nintendo pumping them out en masse for like 10 years.

    The problem with the Cell Phone industry is that they take the swiss army knife approach (and I know Apple is doing the same thing)-- and they follow a very tiered market approach, this allows them to sell or resell crappy old technology to "developing" markets at inflated prices.
    • mutatron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'm still using my Ericsson T28W. I really don't care too much for features like color screens or cameras. All I want is a phone, text messaging, and an alarm clock with snooze, in a flip package that's so light and thin I can forget I'm carrying it. My battery doesn't last very long, but if they put these features with a modern battery, it would probably be good for weeks at a time.

      edit: Oh, and I forgot. I've had this thing for 5 years and still not found a decent replacement for it.
  • SirZRX, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5i think they are taking classes from Sony
    • Dumbledorito, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8That's what the "explode with fire" feature on the battery is for.
  • cadler, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1cool.
  • bigbrocktoon, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5Let me be the first to moot the idea that iphone will be Apple's PS3. Apple is delivering top-notch whiz-bang technology at a top drawer price, both far exceeding the public's price sensitivity, and requirements.

    There.
  • sikosmurf, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"People will buy it because we say they'll buy it"
  • naio21, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Only ***** will pay $600,00 for a phone that is NOT a smartphone and that attaches you to a 2-year contract.
    • MacParrot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Right naio, because calling people "*****" is a great way to get there attention and show you have an opinion that matters.

      I won't buy this version of an iPhone because it has no features that interest me. I don't need to play MP3s and movies on a phone and this thing is the size of a brick compared to other "free" phones. Do I like my current cell phone? Not really as its menus are counter-intuitive and just trying to get messages is a pain. Even navigating through my address book is a PITA. Do I hate it enough to spen 500-600 bucks? Nope. I don't know what Tim is smoking, but he obviously isn't sharing it around enough to make me buy an iPhone.

      Put the same form factor in a next-gen iPod with 30-80 gigs of storage and I'm there. iPhone? iDon't think so.
    • Raian, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I admit, I am a ***** :(
    • Raian, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1-- damn thing posted twice.. I guess because of my ***** :(
    • PabloMac, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1"Only ***** will pay $600,00 for a phone..."

      I don't stoop to name-calling, but it's $600.00, not $600,00.
    • thunderer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@ PabloMac
      naio21 probaby lives in Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Canada (French-speaking), Costa Rica, Croatia, Cuba, Chile, Colombia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Ecuador, Estonia, Faroes, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Hungary, Indonesia, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg (uses both separators officially), Macedonia, Moldova, Netherlands, Norway, Paraguay, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, South Africa, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine, Uruguay, Venezuela, Vietnam, or Zimbabwe.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator#Examples_of_use
    • naio21, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@thunderer: bingo!
  • jerwong, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3So, should I go work more hours and get a second job to pay for this phone too?
  • pak314, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1People say the iPhone will drop is price a lot over time due to cellular provider subsidy but I don't think Apple will want that because the iPhone is also a full iPod and if it becomes too cheap then that will cut into normal iPod sales. It wont happen unless the cellular provider really compensates Apple for the lost iPod sales.
  • Krutch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I understand how cell phones can be a must for a lot of people. Fortunatly for me they are not. I got rid of my leash (cell phone) and switched to vonage several months ago. I love my freedom. No calls from work while I am out. No distractions.
  • jsdratm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Wow, could he be any more arrogant?
    • Dumbledorito, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2It's marketing. No company will admit that any of its products are less valuable than getting a second soul and a bigger penis.
  • operand, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The problem with his analysis is that not EVERYBODY wants to search the web on a 3 inch screen. There are markets for everything including cell phones. Power users will probably enjoy the iPhone while some prefer a cell phone for its original intent, to place and receive calls.

    Personally, I want a phone that works first as I rarely had a cell phone that latest more than a year (outside of Nokia's brick phone, the 5165). I do want features but not sure if 499 justifies these options. Knock off 200 or so and I would reconsider.
    • astrosmash, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3> The problem with his analysis is that not EVERYBODY wants to
      > search the web on a 3 inch screen.

      I think that's exactly what Apple's position is.

      The average consumer would never image that combining a camera with a phone would be worth their money, until they actually use it (or see someone else using it) at which point they understand the potential.

      Likewise, anyone who's had the pleasure of a true internet-enabled smart phone knows how useful it is. But the average consumer doesn't understand what it's like to have the internet and their email always available in their pocket. Combine that with the fact that the average consumer finds cell phones intimidating and difficult to learn. If a company (i.e. Apple) can bring that functionality to the average consumer it will open up a huge market.

      So far no one has been very successful in bringing the smart phone to the average consumer. Whether they're successful or not, it is Apple's strategy to do just that.
  • spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I heard on a radio program that North Americans, more than any other continent, liked simple phones better than featureful ones. I think the only thing going for the iPhone is the Apple name and iPod correlation. A rose by any other name wouldn't sell.
    • astrosmash, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Most people hate their cell phones. Once someone figures out how to sell a smart phone to average Americans, they'll probably capture a large segment of the market.
  • mattjumbo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1The specs on the iPhone will be substantially better by the time it ships. And frankly even if they aren't, the iPhone is still going to be a monster hit. Don't kid yourselves. There are 90 million iPod owners out there. There are around 40 million Mac users out there. Apple's goal is to sell *10 million* iPhones. They will get to that without breaking a sweat just from the legions of Apple fanboys (like me; I'll admit it) that have intended to by any Apple phone released for the last decade.

    Then the prices will drop, features will increase, and other models will appear just as with the iPod.

    The "killer app" isn't phone calls (sorry Steve), its inertia. The reason people stay with Windows is the same reason people who already use iTunes for all their media needs will buy an iPhone. The iPhone would be a no-brainer hit even if it sucked. And, price aside for a moment, you guys know darn well it doesn't suck. Its a very slick, very advanced piece o' tech.
  • kahlessreborn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Now will the iPhone follow the Playstation 3 Model or the Xbox 360 model. I'll consider the Wii model to be those free cellphones
  • forcedfx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Blackberry may be the only phone/PDA I ever buy from now on. I love my 7130c and have since learned Java just so I can write my own programs for it. I must say though, my old Moto V400 was bulletproof. 15 minutes into the wash cycle I remembered it was in my pants pocket. I yanked it out, pulled out the now destroyed battery and let it dry for 3 days disassembled. Put it back together and it worked perfectly.
  • astrotrain, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Apple is mistaken... iPhone will sell because its a fashion statement like their iPod. People want to be with the 'in crowd' even if it costs them $300 for a Mp3 player. So people will figure it is the 'i' and its from Apple, it must be a good thing, and other people will have them. **cha-ching** $200 paid out to be in now with the 'iPhone In Crowd'.
  • Dhalsim007, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Hmmm....sounds like Apple's been talking to Sony about their upcoming marketing plan....
  • professorChaos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3i fully plan on getting a blackberry in a few months
  • Googs, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1This guy is a moron...someone fire him!!!! I have a free phone (T-mo Dash) and it can do everything I need it to do. He must have been hanging out with GWB (WMD are in iraq) and thinks Apple can take away business. This phone will be so locked down that you can't change it to your liking or too advance for most free phone users.
  • wonko33, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1i think this thing is not much more than a smartphone until they boost the HD space. Video ? Give me a break, the screen looks awesome but 8G is too small to store any videos collection.

    I like the WI-FI, but everyone will come out with that now. I'll spend a few more bucks and get a UMPC, I'll just keep my free phone to make calls. That way when i go to the beach I'll just take my little phone with me and won't have to log around that beast everywhere I go...gee will an iPhone even fit in a pocket?
    • Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I think the idea is you don't use the iPhone to store a video "collection". You use iTunes for that. Then you put 1 or 2 videos that you want to watch that day/week/month/flight on the iPhone.

      Videos aren't music.


    • wonko33, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3If I have to keep my ipod, the iphone is way too big. the only way the size would make sense is because you would not have to carry other electronic devices.
  • itachinin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I will never buy one.
  • Hellmark, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2That sounds like something Sony would say.

    I don't think the crowd that use the free phones will be getting iPhones. I know if I am perfectly content with something for free, I won't be spending $500-600 instead.
  • astrosmash, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1"Free" phones *are* junk. And they're hard to use. Outside of techie circles or the teenage crowd few regular people enjoy using their phones, or use them for anything other than for simple voice communication.

    Once you've had the experience of carrying the internet with you wherever you go, including email and services like Google maps, it's very hard to go back. Clearly everyone here advocating the free-phones haven't had that experience, not to mention wi-fi calling, and what that shows is that no company has been successful in delivering a smart phone to the average consumer. Isn't that precisely what Apple is trying to do?
  • znicket, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3There´s a lot of hating going on on the iPhone. I for one will buy one - I simply like the new touch interface and the phone looks like a fun device to use... Have never had a phone which I could describe in those terms.
  • jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I'm sorry... love the iPhone, but Apple doesnt need to say ***** like this. My Nokia N73 is an awesome phone and I paid nothing for it. Plays video media (realplayer), mp3s, flash, skype, web browser + internet, msn, yahoo, gmail, google maps, java games, minisd card for more storage, voice recognition which doesn't require you to train it or record anything, camera and picture gallery, has flash and mechanical shutter for taking good pictures (3.2 megapixel), voice recorder, skinnable interface, adobe pdf and ms office converter, slingbox remote control and streamer, orb, etc etc...

    the iphone looks really cool. the buttonless interface is awesome, but apple cant go one and say that the next gen is a bunch of flipping cd album covers... and thats waaaaaay ahead of whats currently on offer for free
  • poorbusker, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3yeah, Apple is beginning to sound a lot like sony
  • thedraft, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Sony like speak, appropriate because the iPhone is the PS3 of cell phones. It's big, it's bad, it's got the latest and greatest techno gobblygook, it doesn't really do anything new but it does everything old really well, and it costs $600.

    I'm sure it will be just as successful.
  • mikehill33, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Apple is capitalizing on the "sheep factor" that because it is an Apple product, that alone will be the key selling point.

    What they are missing is the uknown embrace by the business application community and the release on multiple carriers.

    All the people who buy the first model will promptly have their $499 (est.) go up in smoke within 3 months when Apple releases one with double the size, etc...

    basically, iPod part 2.
    • Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3You mean like all the sheep that bought millions of G4 Cubes? Or all the millions of sheep that left the Mac platform during the 90's?

      There are no sheep. Just people who don't share your viewpoint.

      Suck it.
  • ChristianD, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Well, well, well, this sounds a lot like Sony when they where trying to tell everyone people will pay $600 dollars for a PS3 because it was well, a PS3. The iPhone will sell, but it won't sell like apple is trying to convince you it will.

    Fact, the iPhone is expensive, like top of the food chain expensive.
    Fact, the iphone is an iPod, and some people will buy a new iPod regardless of the price
    Fact, the iPhone has a noose (2 year contract - Plus data plan) that comes with the box
    Fact $600 is expensive no matter how you cut it, so once the Apple Die Hards get covered, the rich kids, the 19 to 25 year olds that love tech and have $600 sitting around get covered, what do you have left? Answer: the other 5 Billion people on the planet that aren't going to buy it. Also, at that price point you're going to be talking to a lot of knowlegible people when it comes to Cell phones, and when you consider the glaring 3G hole, limited Hard Drive space, and the other 10 to 15 competing products, you have a lupe warm seller by apple standards.
  • Chupatumama, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I switched to those cheapo Nokia Virgin phones because I keep losing stuff.
    I lost 2 phones these past two years and it cost me 45$Canadian when I got a new Nokia for Xmas.
    Battery lasts about a week, I hear very well and it does all the things i need it to do.
    The biggest difference is I dont get the cold sweats like I used to everytime my Ericssen was not around me.

    That said, Cook is a moron...actually no, he's a liar.
    Wait, I meant its called marketing: he's a liar addressing morons.
  • gibson424, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3"regardless of the fact that this piece of eye candy will spend more time in your pocket than being used."

    I don't agree with that at all. The greatest thing about the iPhone is that it combines so many useful tools into one device. Right now, my phone stays in my pocket until I need to use it and the same goes for my iPod. I only get on my computer when I need to check e-mail or when I want to surf the web..otherwise it's asleep. But when you take all those aspects and combine them into one device, it's going to be very heavily used and for some, very worth the cost. Make a call, listen to music, watch a tv show, check news headlines, get directions, and all of it from one device. Sorry if I sound like an Apple commercial..
    • MOGua, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Plenty of phones can do all that and more already.

      Besides, I am pretty sure I won't be able to watch my Slingbox on the iPhone. Third party apps FTW.
    • Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2 by MOGua just now

      "Plenty of phones can do all that and more already."
      ---------------

      There were plenty of MP3 players when the iPod was launched too. There is a universe between just doing something, and doing something well.
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