What is Digg?112 Comments
- AZJazzyJ, on 06/16/2008, -2/+61It is good to see that Apple is not only using SproutCore but also donating back to the community to make this technology better.
- InCider, on 06/16/2008, -1/+46The SproutCore website is hosted on Dreamhost. Maybe Apple needs to throw them some server space so their site doesn't fall over :P
- Debator, on 06/16/2008, -3/+37I think this could look REALLY cool....is this what they used for MobileMe?
- Stegg, on 06/16/2008, -3/+32Sounds pretty cool, but it's not encouraging to see this at sproutcore.com: "a 500 Internal Server Error error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request"
- mediterrenean, on 06/16/2008, -9/+37Ballmer will be scratching his head, jumping up and down, yelling "kill kill killllllllllll SproutCore" any minute now !
- monkeyrun, on 06/16/2008, -2/+29interesting. Apple's going all out on the developers front.
- insanewriters, on 06/16/2008, -0/+20Yup - at the least, large parts of it.
I thought I was doing some nifty things with jQuery, but, wow, I can't wait to play with this framework. When the SproutCore site gets back up that is... - chadu, on 06/16/2008, -0/+19That site has just been crushed by the blogosphere and twitter today. Apple should help em with some hosting.
- okito, on 06/16/2008, -1/+20HI, y'all took my site down before I could upgrade to a new server. Thanks alot. (just kidding). I have posted the demos on my .Mac account so you can still visit them:
Photos demo: http://mac.okito.net/static/photos/
(This has some special features for people using the latest builds of WebKit)
Sample Controls: http://mac.okito.net/static/sample_controls/ - postalblowfish7, on 06/16/2008, -2/+21this allows you to do some really incredible things with webapps. the .mac mail webapp (now mobileme) was incredibly fluid and really captured the os x desktop experience. i can't even imagine what creative web designers could do with it...
- zephc, on 06/16/2008, -0/+16I have to install a plugin to use Silverlight? Cmon.
- skribble, on 06/16/2008, -1/+17RTFA. While it does assist in creating nice looking web applications, it's real strength is in managing Data... keeping it, and working with it locally when possible, and saving/retrieving it from the server when necessary. This is essential stuff in building great applications for the web.
- urothane, on 06/16/2008, -0/+13The problem with Silverlight is that it requires a plugin. Sproutcore, like jquery, prototype, mootools, and scriptolicious don't need anything more than a modern browser. Tack on that Silverlight requires learning a new program and language (if you are not a .NET dev) and it becomes more difficult yet. I have been using Flash for years and still feel like a n00b. There is no way in hell I would take on another "Flash" type system especially if no one has it installed on their machine to see what I do with it.
- directrix13, on 06/16/2008, -0/+13Yeah, but that's not what it will do.
- bpapa, on 06/16/2008, -1/+13Comparing Sproutcore to Silverlight? Sup, Apples and Oranges. Sproutcore is a Javascript framework, technology which every modern browser already has. Silverlight is like Flash and requires a plug-in. Completely different products.
- ATLien74, on 06/16/2008, -1/+12RARRRGGHHH!!! BALLMER SMASH!!!!
- Tezdoll, on 06/16/2008, -1/+11Throwning a Windows tool into a mac discussion... your askin for trouble!
/har har this thread has been hijacked! - quandrum, on 06/16/2008, -2/+11It has happened again. They continue to co-opt, help and keep open all of their back end technology. From Darwin to Webkit to this and more.
They charge $99 bucks for things like MobileMe because despite how much griping you'll see on web communities about the price, people subscribe, people buy the $300 dollar WiFi base stations and the $3000 sub-notebooks.
But don't conflate their premium, "Our product is hip and cool and therefore worth x2 more" pricing with their willingness to embrace openness on the back-end. Now complain about how they won't open their front-end at all and I'm with you. - relaxeder, on 04/17/2009, -3/+11GRAAAAGH, BALLMER BREAK YUO
- patcito, on 06/16/2008, -0/+8SproutCore is a javascript library, doesn't have much to do with server robustness.
- KaivenTor, on 06/16/2008, -4/+11I played with the SproutCore demos last week. I have to say that I was not impressed with them at all. I could do most of the same stuff using a combination of existing libraries like JQuery, Prototype / Scriptaculous, and MooTools. The biggest issue I ran into with SproutCore is speed and filesize. If they could make the library efficient it would go a lot further, but until then, it's just too slow to really do any good for most web users.
- mrdeathgod, on 06/16/2008, -3/+10Sounds a lot like Google Web Toolkit. It'll be interesting to see how they compare.
- BrendanSheehan, on 06/16/2008, -0/+7http://images.apple.com/mobileme/images/webapps_ga ...
- streak, on 06/16/2008, -0/+7Now you know why Apple has been pushing Safari performance so heavily, why Apple expanded Safari onto the Windows platform, why Apple was originally against native apps on the iPhone and pushing web apps instead, and why Apple hasn't said boo about Adobe Flash on the iPhone. The original iPhone was just a little ahead of its time--and incited market demand much more than expected--as far as Apple's longer-term aspirations are concerned.
- eShinn, on 06/16/2008, -2/+8I REeaaallly hope they implement private methods in classes. Scriptaculous, Mootools, and the ilk just fall far short. Seriously hope they don't use className.prototype= in order to add methods to classes. I got around this by using Function("decleration","arg1","arg2","argN");
SUPER glad I'm not the only one that thinks the HTML being the view of the MVC frame work in web apps is completely short-sited.
Looks like now I can start USING a framework without having to create it first. ;.p - monkeyrun, on 06/16/2008, -0/+6From what I can see Sproutcore is built on open standards, so it should work on any platform without plugin.
- kelly, on 06/16/2008, -1/+7Its not like each of them are unnecessary. The only one that wasn't necessary (Java) was removed from Apple's framework.
- directrix13, on 06/16/2008, -1/+6Nah, its sort of like an XUL app except its cross-browser.
- SSUK, on 06/16/2008, -1/+6Throwing a Microsoft head into a mac discussion... you're askin' for praise, recognition and +1 from all.
- MacParrot, on 06/16/2008, -2/+7Read bpapa's post again. Silverlight and Flash require plug-ins (which admittingly isn't that hard to find for every environment) and apparently Sproutcore does not. That alone (if 100% accurate) gives it a + that the others don't have.
- MacParrot, on 06/16/2008, -3/+8Depending on how far developers go with this, Microsoft has every reason to be concerned. As does Apple, but not exactly for the same reasons.
Microsoft's two big money making apps are Windows and Office. We're already seeing cracks in the Office on the homefront with Open Office and some of the Google apps (not to mention iWork, at least on the Mac side). What happens when most people are online all the time and your computer can boot to an online file manager without Windows or OS X? So Microsoft loses Office and Windows (eventually) and Apple loses hardware sales and OS X to cheap online appliances? They'll both need other avenues of revenue to make up for it.
Google is quickly poisitioning itself as an alternative to both platforms. Adobe looks to be trying to play in the same sandbox. Apple and Microsoft are both trying to reinvent themselves for the future. Microsoft with Silverlight and Apple with Sproutcore. This will make for some interesting times. - AndrewMayne, on 06/16/2008, -0/+4"I could do most of the same stuff using a combination of existing libraries like JQuery, Prototype / Scriptaculous, and MooTools"
That's kind of the whole point. One library to do everything and avoid a kluge. - Echosphere, on 06/16/2008, -1/+5Apple is on the cusp of expanding open source development to the average user.
- mrBitch, on 06/17/2008, -1/+5What's so special about SproutCore :
1. A web dev platform that is cross OS & cross browser (runs great on Linux, Windows, OS X, etc.)
2. It's NOT a plug-in (unlike Flash & Silverlight).
3. it's NOT proprietary.
4. it IS open source.
5. it's LIKE Google Gears + more dev power
6. it's NOT for making Ads.
7. it IS for making rich web apps using open web standards.
8. it DOES make it easy to build real powerful web apps using menus, toolbars, drag and drop support, and foreign language localization
9. it has a full Model View Controller application stack like Rails (and Cocoa), with bindings, key value observing, and view controls.
For more info on SproutCore :
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/14/cocoa-for ... - Echosphere, on 06/16/2008, -3/+7DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS!
At least someone got the cue. - AndrewMayne, on 06/16/2008, -0/+4The site is a WordPress blog. Not a SproutCore app.
- andrewsardone, on 06/16/2008, -0/+3Use them both! SproutCore can use WebObjects services which, if I'm not mistaken, is what MobileMe does in a lot of places.
- superkendall, on 06/16/2008, -3/+6The whole argument in that post is predicated on rendering for Flash or Silverlight being exactly the same between platforms. But modern Javascript frameworks render close enough to the same on different platforms that there is no advantage in using flash over javascript, and there is a very real disadvantage in that your app will not work on an iPhone and will work poorly, if at all, on other mobile devices that claim to support flash.
Furthermore even if you do go with Flash, you still have to test what you are doing on multiple platforms to see how it will perform. Simply put, there is no way to really go about consumer-focused multi-platform development without some testing and tweaking, so you might as well use Javascript where at least you do not need a plugin.
I'm not saying there are no proper uses for Flash, just that Javascript libraries will do what 95% of people need such a framework to do. - inactive, on 06/17/2008, -0/+3Maybe I am missing something, but what's so special about it? And why the ***** does it require Ruby?
- felderado, on 06/16/2008, -0/+3Careful! You can get shot for saying things like that on the internets.
- mrsteveman1, on 06/16/2008, -1/+4I think one of you clicked the wrong button
- AndrewMayne, on 06/16/2008, -0/+3"Could they call outside files, like video and audio or whatever?"
Yes. - eShinn, on 06/16/2008, -3/+6...and once you're finally able to see what it really is, you'll get off the high-horse and order our book from Amazon to try and catch up ;.)
- Gogogo111, on 06/16/2008, -1/+4Ballmer's up taunt: "Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers!"
- mrBitch, on 06/17/2008, -0/+2And also why Safari 4 (and webkit) have HUGE javascript engine performance improvements...
Guess what SproutCore utilises? - mytch, on 06/18/2008, -0/+2What's wrong with iUI? FaceBook used it for iphone.facebook.com - we've also used it for our shopping cart software so store owners can process orders on the run: http://digg.com/apple/iPhone_Order_Processing_with ...
- CrushThemTorg, on 06/16/2008, -4/+6Bah! I'm sticking with WebObjects.
- robmcm, on 06/17/2008, -2/+4The HTML code generated is awful, there is no symantics for even simple things, like using the Label tag for labels!
Another funny thing is it doesn't work on the iPhone.... let alone other mobile devices!
This reminds me of .net frame work, developing things for IE on windows only, and adding specific things to IE as needed rather than using web standards!
Sorry but I really hope this gets a web standards refresh.. or dies - Alfurnguy, on 06/16/2008, -0/+2http://digg.com/microsoft/Steve_Ballmer_Goes_Crazy ...
Yah Ballmer is nuts idk how he manages to lead a company like that - mrBitch, on 06/17/2008, -0/+2You have just placed a spot light on why Apple is doing this.
Google & Apple will both lose BIG TIME if Adobe and Microsoft are able to lock people in with their web dev technologies ( Adobe with Flash + Air, Microsoft with SilverLight ).
Google needs web pages to be easy to index & search. Both Adobe & MS are trying to kill easy indexing of web sites.
It is in both Google AND Apple's best interests to join together and push open web dev platforms (as opposed to the closed and proprietary web dev platforms from Adobe & MS). -
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