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- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -26/+65Yes, we're going to trust the objectivity of a guy named "Machole."
Let's look at the history of Microsoft. They stole Windows from Apple during their development of software for the Macintosh. They turn around, sell it to PC Makers and make those PC Makers sign exclusive agreements that prohibit them from even advertising other operating systems. Then Microsoft uses their Windows leverage to kill rivals in the office space, including Lotus 1-2-3 and Word Perfect and Netscape. They attempt to steal proprietary code from Quicktime (See San Francisco Canyon Company Code Theft Lawsuit) in order to catch up with Apple in video and release proprietary formats for video (WMV), audio (WMA) and game programming (DirectX), instead of using standards like MPEG-4, MP3, AAC, or OpenGL.
Microsoft has also released so many beta versions of Windows that people have accepted that their software won't work until the first service pack. In addition, the Price of Windows and Office continues to rise, despite the fact that Microsoft has over ninety percent of the PC market. Microsoft also supports the RIAA by contributing proceeds from their Zune players to Universal and will likely make similar arrangements with other companies if they think it can kill iTunes. Microsoft spys on their customers using WGA and makes customers authenticate whenever they change out vital hardware. Microsoft's internet browser does not conform to open internet standards and is the bane of web developers everywhere.
Apple on the other hand, made the Graphic User Interface and mouse popular for regular people. Apple uses open architecture like BSD and OpenGL and continues to innovate interfaces for computers. You have to pay a premium for their hardware, it's true, but their office software, as well as the upgrades that they regularly release, are reasonably priced, even for up to five licenses. Because of Apple, Windows users now have Gadgets (which copies Widgets from Tiger) and Flip 3D (which copies Expose). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDNuq94Zg_8)
Apple is a strong advocate for music without DRM. The majority of music on iPods is not bought from iTunes. Apple allows you to play both music ripped from CDs and music bought from MP3 sites (such as EMusic, Walmart and Amazon) and stolen from P2P sites. Apple allows you to install any operating system on your computer, including Windows and any variety of Linux.
Apple's internet browser conforms to internet standards and uses an open source framework called WebKit. Coincidentally, Google is using the same open source initiative for the web browser in Android. Because of Apple design, the computer industry has transitioned from ugly beige boxes into the stylish realm of brushed metal and black, just to keep up with Apple.
So, you're right, I can't possibly see how Apple's market share rise could be in any way good for consumers. /sarcasm. - Vegabondsx, on 12/11/2007, -0/+24Like Macs or not, more competition is good for everyone.
- halesgarcia, on 12/11/2007, -4/+18The sky isn't falling because consumers are choosing an alternative to Windows. Consumers are free to do whatever they want. Always have and always will.
You're either delusional or spreading Microsoft propaganda. - TVarmy, on 12/11/2007, -1/+14I don't think we really need to get into the design philosophy of Windows vs. OSX. They're both fairly closed OSs, but that's okay for most people's needs. The main point is that Microsoft can no longer assume they will dominate the market for operating systems. OSX offers some very strong competition, and Windows has lately been playing catch-up.
- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -2/+14I've owned 27 computers in my lifetime and have used MSDOS since 2.1 on my PCjr and I have to say that this Macbook I'm writing this with is my favorite and the best I've ever owned. Good for Apple.
- doctordbx, on 12/11/2007, -1/+13I think it goes without saying, increased competition == good for consumer. I don't know why this should come as a surprise for any sentient being.
- Dysarthria, on 12/11/2007, -1/+10ALL COMPETITION IS GOOD!
- SaintStryfe, on 12/11/2007, -3/+11Which in turn are just new versions of the old Desktop Apps from the OS 6 days. On the Mac.
- benitojuarez, on 12/11/2007, -6/+13I like how he left the part out about apple stealing windows from xerox but doesnt hesitate to put in that microsoft stole it from apple.
- antitab, on 12/11/2007, -0/+6I think the general mindset among anti-Apple trolls is that everyone with a Mac is a brainwashed fanboy. I grew up on Windows and used it for a decade, including a two year intermittent flirt with Linux, before getting a Mac, and I absolutely love it. I never want to go back to the PC.
- pakkman781, on 12/11/2007, -0/+6WTF are you on? Leopard is $129 for 1 license, and $199 for the 5 license family pack.
Apple does not sell a copy of Mac OSX that will run on non-Mac PC's. You have to get that from TPB :P - Gizza, on 12/11/2007, -12/+17There's really only 3 reasons why I wont buy a Mac, and I think these 3 reasons are the same for most people.
1. Won't play majority of games available.
2. Cost of hardware.
3. Can't build/upgrade it myself.
2 and 3 would be solved if they released a the OS as a standalone package for all x86/x64 procs, but then you're not really buying a Mac, so it's not in their best interest to do this. - prammy, on 12/11/2007, -0/+5I know people like to point out that Darwin is open source whenever someone says OS X is closed source.
Darwin != OS X, not without a lot of libraries and windowing system that is most definitely CLOSED SOURCE. - WaterMedia, on 12/11/2007, -2/+7Remind me again why people would rather pay for electric windows in their cars?
This is a fee of convenience. You pay it once to gain access to the best software out there for managing personal audio, photos, music, mail, and so much more. Why is it always the hardcore geeks that cheap out on $300 when they spend every minute of their lives chained to their PCs?
The good thing is already happening. Companies are realizing that simple but powerful software is the answer. And that design matters. You'll benefit even though you're clearly ignorant of both concepts. - pradaaddict, on 12/11/2007, -4/+9I think you'll find yourself in the minority with those excuses. Most of the PC market doesn't care about games, just gamers (which account for a relatively small percentage of total PC usage) The cost of Hardware is comparable to mid end Dell machines. The VAST majority of PC users wouldn't know where to begin when it comes to building their own machine and don't care to know either.
- falafelkiosken, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4or both
- beardedfish, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4apple killed Konfabulator by including widgets in 10.4, then Yahoo swooped in and bought it.
- knute5, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Windows gets hacked because, back in '94, Gates was betting not on the Web, but on his own "AOL Killer", MSN. When Redmond did an about face, they had to shoehorn Internet functionality into the OS/Browser, not realizing that Internet SECURITY was going to be the biggest problem. Add to this, Windows users' demand for backward software and hardware compatibility and MS is mired in so much complexity and code bloat that countless holes are forever being identified, exploited and patched.
Apple has always had a much tighter reign on its hardware and software. BSD Unix/ OSX is a battle-hardened networking OS. For these reasons, even if Apple and MS had equal share, Windows would still continue to be the more exploited OS. "Security by obscurity" is a cold-comfort excuse for Windows advocates to minimize a legitimate advantage that Apple has. - rickcarson, on 12/11/2007, -1/+5Higher price is relative. Sure, a savvy IT person can spend months chasing down the cheapest spare parts and build their own. Will it have the same footprint as an iMac? Most of the build it yourselfers that I've seen have towers with 50 hojillion cables coming out the back of them. Even then, most of the time having tracked down the parts and added them all up it turns out that Apple is still in the ball park cost wise. So what if you can build it for $50 less. I'll happily pay someone that much to assemble it for me, because my time is worth more than 50 cents an hour, thanks.
Heaven forbid that you should try putting together a laptop out of parts. Good luck with that one, let me know how it works out for you. And certainly with laptops Apple is in the same ballpark (and sometimes even cheaper *shock* *horror*) than other name brand equivalents.
Don't underestimate the value of the unique form factors for their desktops. Don't underestimate the value of the 'integrated package'. Not everyone wants to spend long hours picking through the registry, or fiddling with the build settings of their kernel. That whole "just works out of the box" myth? Well, it is pretty close to being true (especially for the less savvy amongst us). And some people will pay good money for that.
Ask yourself this: why doesn't _everyone_ just buy parts from newegg and assemble them themselves?
Now, if you're feeling particularly insightful and introspective, ask yourself why you single Apple out for this, and why not _all_ computer manufacturers? Apple is just doing what everyone else is doing (at least, as far as prices are concerned, arguably they are a teeny little bit innovative in some other areas), so why do you single them out? - yabos, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4They didn't steal it, they licensed it from Xerox because Xerox didn't think it was worth anything.
- MacParrot, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Really? I'm a Mac user going back 20 years and I'll tell you that other than Ram, the hard drives in MacBooks, and in some models the Airport card, there are no easily replaceable in most Macs these days. Replacing the hard drive in any Intel iMac is major surgery and for the Mac minis you need a putty knife just to open them. A PUTTY KNIFE! The only machine that is easily upgradable is the Mac Pro which is an amazingly designed computer. I wish I could afford one.
- LeeSoong, on 12/11/2007, -1/+5Apple's are still way overpriced, especially when you consider that Apple does not have to license an OS off of MicroSoft.
With $300 desktops and $400 laptops being the norm now, asking people to pay more than $500 to surf/email/print is just too much.
Apple should drop the price of the Mini, at least. back to the $499 / $699 configuration to give more people the opportunity to ''Switch''.
$599 / $799 for a box with no keyboard, no mouse, no monitor, no printer ?!?
Apple - WTF ?
Apple is strangling the baby Mac to make room for it's big brothers... - soupdawg30, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Any USB or Bluetooth Keyboard or Mouse will work.
- benitojuarez, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Well pretty much every major player, apple, microsoft, adobe etc has a student program, that doesnt count. Im talking about off the shelf retail price.
- Aupajo, on 12/11/2007, -1/+5I'd argue against your point, particularly when you say that they would fail in the top spot. They are already a leader in the music business, and while they haven't been perfect, I think they've done an excellent job of continuing to offer great products and services to consumers. I look forward to the same trend from their computers.
- mrsteveman1, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4iTunes has been successful in spite of the DRM because it isn't insane and ridiculous. Fairplay effectively does nothing more than placate the RIAA at this point.
On the other hand, Microsoft has spent the last 8 years trying to mold the market into a position so that all media is sold in WMA/WMV format, for play exclusively on Windows, with your rights sold back to you piece by piece. - Myztry, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3Nah. Nuclear Arms races suck
- MacParrot, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3Not surprisingly, you once again missed the point. I never said Apple doesn't support DRM. Microsoft supports it as well (No, I'm not talking about OS DRM that many are up in arms about from both Apple and MS) with Plays4Sure and (screwing their own partners in the process) the Zune Marketplace.
Apple has said that they will sell tracks without DRM when allowed to by the content copyright holders and with EMI and smaller independents (Apple is FINALLY doing this for the smaller creators. Should have done it all along) they are doing so. Amazon which also sells digital content is now offering DRM-free tracks since they have been allowed to do so. So where does the control really lie? NOT with Apple or MS, but with the copyright holders of the content being sold.
Yes, you're still being a dick. Let me know when you can take off your own colored shades. I have no problem with Microsoft and can appreciate the innovation they have also brought to tech over the years. I use MS products both at work (an XP box) and at home (MS Office for the Mac). You can't seem to get over hating something you don't even seem to use. - Swift2, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3Vista? Talk about lipstick on a pig. All that work on making it look better, and it looks like a cheap paint-by-numbers. Know what's the tip-off? Look at the red cancel box on every Window. What an ugly piece of crap.
- rickcarson, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3If their market share goes to 40%, they won't have any need to put it out for PCs.
- Focher, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3Great reasons...except those are reasons to own a game console instead of a PC. The vast majority of games is for consoles, the cost of consoles compared to a PC is considerably less, and the upgradability of a PC is just a sinkhole whereas a console is a level playing field.
I am still largely a PC gamer, but it's a bit silly to say Macs are rejected because they can't compete with PCs in the gaming market. PCs can't compete very well with consoles in the gaming market anymore. Consoles are probably doing as much to help boost Mac acceptance as the benefits of the Macs themselves. - MacParrot, on 12/11/2007, -2/+5How many tracks without DRM have been sold through Plays4Sure sites? Zune Marketplace? The "new" Napster et al. This isn't a blanket pass for Apple, but none of them (Apple MS, everybody else that had an online music store) would have been allowed to sell a single track without that DRM. Without the tracks from the major studios, you have no online store. See how that works?
EMI (note I'm not giving credit to Apple) opened the floodgates to sell non-DRM tracks. Universal is now also playing with it. Each online store when allowed to by contract, is selling non-DRM tracks. The control for it lies with the copyright holders, NOT Apple or Microsoft. You're being a dick - phunlee, on 12/11/2007, -1/+4I don't want Apple to be a market leader. I don't think they do anymore either. I don't think you can when you keep your prices nice and high to keep out the riff-raff. You use quality products and sell them some un-matched style, you get a market niche and you don't need the masses. You have the high-paying, often-buying market. I hope they don't ***** it up.
- Kugo, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3Yes you're right. And the comment above this is just as fanboy. Apple paid one million dollars to visit "those silly academics" and Alan Kay became a fellow of Apple. And without "those silly academics" you wouldn't have EPS, DTP, window GUIs, Objective-C, Ethernet, LAN networking, or a thousand other things. Yes "those silly academics". Only a total fanboy ***** could ever belch something so irretrievably nauseatingly typically fanboy stupid - and of course only when their parent or guardian (or Happy Acres assistant) is out of the room.
- benitojuarez, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3Well if leopard is only 129 I retract my previous statement.
- antitab, on 12/11/2007, -2/+5The RAM and hard drive are more easily replaceable in Macs than any PC that I've worked on. In many new Macs the CPU can be replaced. I'd imagine the same goes for those with discrete graphics. What else did you want to replace, pray tell?
- nixfu, on 12/11/2007, -2/+5Apples products are almost identical OR CHEAPER than systems with other identical specs from places like Dell, Levineo etc... You can't compare Apples to $400 systems at wallmart.
Compared them to identical systems like a Thinkpad, and you will find that apple is VERY COMPETITIVE.
I am guessing you would not be able to afford a Thinkpad either. - Swift2, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3You don't need to buy a single DRM'ed track. It plays CDs ripped how you want. It even plays pirated music, they say. I think iTunes is a great program, and that's what I use to load up my iPod, and update the firmware when it needs it. You can use third-party software like Senuti on the Mac, and I guess other things for Windows. Do you mean, is the DRM proprietary? Yes. Is Windows' DRM proprietary, or any other kind? Yes, by definition. Buy your music from Amazon, or from iTunes Plus. Not locked in to iTunes.
- toughice, on 12/11/2007, -1/+4You can get a free printer (via $100 rebate) with the purchase of any new Mac if you buy them from the Apple store. I think that this has been the store policy for a while now, though they don't generally advertise it.
- rickcarson, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3Go have a look at the very short list of printers that work over Airport.
Apple has been consistently dropping the prices on their hardware for almost a decade now, but the one area they are still justifiably notorious for gauging is with accessories and add ons. Ram prices are just the beginning.
I think that is what nufoto is talking about, more competition in that space will be good for the consumer. - mrsteveman1, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2I'm claiming it. Apple wants people to buy stuff Apple makes. DRM doesn't further this goal in any way whatsoever.
In particular it doesn't prop up OS X sales because even DRM'd itunes tracks play on windows just fine. The reverse is not true, buy a DRM'd WMA track and it will never play anywhere but windows ever again.
It doesn't prop up iPod sales either, the majority of music on iPods comes from CDs, it makes sense that people want to buy iPods to put CD music on them, but it doesn't help apple unless the majority of that music comes from DRM'd iTunes tracks.
Who's playing games here? cause its not apple. - LeeSoong, on 12/12/2007, -0/+2Apple paperweights - like the AppleTV, shows that Apple still doesn't understand the $10 Billion + video gaming industry.
The death blow to the useless AppleTV is you can not just plug it in and start buying / downloading things from iTunes. If it was an iTunes Appliance - that would be great, but you MUST have a computer for the AppleTV to work. Stupid.
The AppleTV should be something that can work with or without a PC/Mac.
Just enable which mode you want to use when you set it up.
Enable fully automated USB hard drive backup for backup of your content you buy using the AppleTV.
The market demand is there, it's just Apple has gotten lazy with all the success they've had with the iPod.
Apple's underpowered GPUs, small hard drives, and low RAM levels make it worthless for games - even if you go out and spend an additional $200 to put Windows on a Mac so all the software you already have will once again work correctly. - antitab, on 12/11/2007, -2/+4A competitive Apple is good for the entire industry because it's beyond a shadow of doubt that they're driving innovation and pushing the industry. They kicked off the third generation of graphics layers with Quartz six years ago and now we see the same concepts finally surfacing in Vista. They kicked off composited, GPU-rendered graphics, which I've heard described (by Linux folk no less) as "the biggest thing since double-buffering", and again we are seeing that just now in Vista and newer Linux desktops. They brought indexed searching, another hallmark of modern OSes, into the mainstream with Spotlight. They've pushed open standards and helped to make MPEG-4 defacto over the format ***** that existed in the early '00s. And we haven't even really seen what Core Animation is capable of yet.
People like to call Apple monopolistic looking just at their model of tying the OS to the hardware, but if you dig a bit deeper, they're really the anti-Microsoft. They embrace without extending. And a larger Apple presence in the industry will undoubtedly be a good thing for the industry. - prammy, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2That is one statement I can agree with.
- Myztry, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2"There are lies, damned lies and statistics." - Mark Twain
- kejistan, on 12/11/2007, -6/+8As much as we love to point out that both OSX and Vista have the same (or at the very least very similar) features, I think its important to note that not all of those "innovations" that you're mentioning were invented by Apple. Widgets were originally an an external program from Yahoo, Flip3D was originally implemented in Solaris. Just because Apple managed to get it to the market before Microsoft doesn't mean it somehow invented the software. Give credit where its due.
- webbunny, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2"MS browser does conform but they have made allowances for additional developers to create even more options. This had been a bane true, but only to web developers that are using older methods. "
I'm a web developer and I can safely say you've got this completely wrong. Please go and read ANYTHING on the internet about IE6/IE7 and its compatibility with NEW web standards, and you will see how utterly wrong you are (and how crap IE is!) - nixfu, on 12/11/2007, -2/+4I am looking forward to proving that argument is full of *****, and only made by clueless windows fanboys...if apple ever gets high market share, we will show without a doubt how much Windows gets totally owned by unix based OSs when it comes to security.
- antitab, on 12/11/2007, -0/+2OS X is very much not a closed OS. The only relevant parts that are closed are the Cocoa, Core *, and QuickTime APIs, and many of those are built or based on open standards (OpenStep, OpenGL, PDF, MPEG-4).
It's entirely possible to recreate OS X from a technical perspective. Take Darwin, put a PDF-based imaging model into an OpenGL-accelerated graphics system, and throw in GNUStep, and you're most of the way there. - prammy, on 12/11/2007, -1/+3Zune plays MP3s just fine. ipod _and_ zune do not play oggs or FLAC afaik.
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