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Apple’s Lesson for Sony’s Stores: Just Connect
nytimes.com — RETAIL is supposed to be hard. Apple has made it seem ridiculously easy. And yet it must be harder than it appears, or why hasn ’t the Windows side of the personal computer business figured it out?
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- Tobark, on 10/11/2007, -1/+28Its funny that they mention the Gateway stores. I just drove by what used to be the Mount Laural gateway store which was conveniently located 1 block away from a CompUSA. I can imagine many customers must have walked in to that store and laughed when the salesman told them that they would not be able to walk out with anything and headed straight for CompUSA. Silly cows....
- guytoronto, on 10/11/2007, -18/+104Customers don't want to think. They want simplicity. Apple gives it to them. Laptop or Desktop? Mac Pro or iMac? 17" 20" or 24"? Done! That's how simple it is to by a Mac.
Compare that to shopping for a PC. What size hard drive do you want? How much RAM? Celeron, Core Duo, Core 2 Duo, AMD? What speed? What case size? Need a monitor? It goes on and on. Walk into any store with Windows computers, and you are completely overwhelmed by choices. Consumers don't like too many choices - it confuses them. - PueSi, on 10/11/2007, -53/+20Well that's why i don't like Macs, buying things pre-configured with so little options you're never going to get more bang for your buck.
- Boondoggle, on 10/11/2007, -19/+31 by linkedlist 3 minutes ago
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I think the Windows side isn't dumb enough to fall for the 'ol 'it's a two button wonder!' liner when advertising a two button mouse. Though with apple it seems to work a treat.
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I think most consumers are smart enough to realize that the mouse is the least important component of any computer system, since it can easily and cheaply be replaced to suit an individual's need. I also think your demographic assumptions are ironic, since you seem to think mice are so important... - KamelJockey, on 10/11/2007, -0/+26Weren't Dell Kiosks the same way? What's the point of a retail establishment if you cannot take the goods with you home that instant?
- Aggaman, on 10/11/2007, -9/+42The Apple Stores are cool. No-one cares if you go there just to play with the stuff or shoot the ***** with the geniuses (if you can get to one, as they are often busy with customers).
They are more than stores. In effect they are mac user groups for people who don't want to join a proper MUG or don't know they exist. Keeping customers is as much about what you do after the sale as before it. An Apple store is a sign that Apple is not going away and that there is a place near your home where you can have face to face contact with actual employees of the company instead of third parties (which is not to denigrate independent mac resellers, who are usually pretty good too).
I thought they would fail. Then again, I thought the iPod would be a bust and I have doubts about Apple's phone. WTH do I know... - DigiRaven, on 10/11/2007, -2/+18The gateway stores were very successful at first. Very crowded with customers all the time to order pcs. Employees had a great time selling systems. What happened to the death of the stores was when Ted Waitt handed the reins of the company to ex vp from ATT. Ex ATT guy changed everything. The employees at the stores became numbers and the customers became the sheep. They forced the employees to sell more add on crap to the customers. Customers thought gateway was getting to expensive and employees were quitting in disgust. Gateway Country was a very good store to work until the company goes greedy. I know I worked for Gateway. It went from the best company to work for to absolutely crap and hence as to why the stores became a failure.
I think the ATT guy is gone and Ted is back but the damage was done.
Apple is a great position as Gateway was in 1998. - RiverBelow, on 10/11/2007, -9/+3@guytoronto
I agree with you to an extent, but for clarification I enjoy playing with the specs of Mac products on apple.ca to see how much I won't be able to afford it, - xister, on 10/11/2007, -13/+12@boondoggle: "I think most consumers are smart enough to realize that the mouse is the least important component of any computer system... "
lol! Obviously you've never met my parents, and personally I think you're living in a "techie bubble" if you truly believe that.
"...since it can easily and cheaply be replaced to suit an individual's need. I also think your demographic assumptions are ironic, since you seem to think mice are so important..."
Yes, but why should I have to buy a somewhat useless mouse (included in the initial purchase of the computer) just to have to turn around and buy another? - rpgmaker, on 10/11/2007, -13/+19I don't know why PueSiis being Dugg down, he is right. Without choices you are not free to get what you REALLY want. I think that the truth is too hard to accept by the apple customers....
- turpenine, on 10/11/2007, -6/+7@rpg, you have the choices, you just aren't forced to make them if you don't want to, as the base is pretty good.
- tobsterius, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10@digiraven
"...the customers became sheep."
Don't you mean cows? :P - aristotle0dude, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5@PueSi eta al: Most people get their most bang for the buck in terms of time and convenience since their time on the job is worth a lot and their free time is worth even more to them since they have so little of it. Now people like you on the other hand seem to have more free time than money and so you value cheap over convenient since your free time is not worth not as much as to you as free time is for someone earning a decent salary working 40+ hours a week.
- celerate, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4@aristotle0dude
Lost time is when I have to open my Mac and upgrade the RAM and hard drive by myself. Ordering online is a way around that, but that costs time and you don't get a hands on experience with the product. Third party stores selling Apple products are probably the worst experience, because I haven't been to one that really knew the specs of the computers they sold.
What PueSi said applies for me too. If there were an Apple store up here I'd want to be able to walk in in the morning, tell them what type of optical drive, what size of hard drive, and how much RAM I want in the thing, and take my new computer home sometime in the afternoon. I work for a computer store that sells PCs, customers can buy RAM upgrades, various internal or external optical drives, bigger hard drives for their computer, and any software they need and we even offer to install and update it all for free. - twit987, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9Apple Stores are the In-N-Outs or Chipotles of the fast food industry. The menu is simple, but the product and service is great.
And now I want some Chipotle. - zang74, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, chipotle. ;)
- guytoronto, on 10/11/2007, -18/+104Customers don't want to think. They want simplicity. Apple gives it to them. Laptop or Desktop? Mac Pro or iMac? 17" 20" or 24"? Done! That's how simple it is to by a Mac.
- flag564, on 10/11/2007, -18/+25I suppose a better question is why should the "Windows side" care?
It's not as if Apple is outselling them by any means. PC are sold in some of the largest retailers on the planet in far more locations. Those places may not look like an interior designers fantasy run amok, but it gets the job done.- zodieman, on 10/11/2007, -11/+20You might not care but those companies involved in retails sales are paying close attention to Apple's success. Emulating Apple however might not be enough. I have a sneaking suspicion that Apple does so well because they're not selling Windows. Macs run OS X and thus are different and "cool" (to some) and it drives in the customers (the iPod also helps). Windows is just not cool because it's just so ubiquitous. Think about it...
- kris33, on 10/11/2007, -18/+11And OS X is simply a better OS, as long as you aren't into gaming :)
- meatmcguffin, on 10/11/2007, -13/+10"Windows is just not cool because it's just so ubiquitous. Think about it..."
I was wondering how long it would be before someone bought up the "it only sells because it's cool" argument. It's easy to defeat this logic by saying that iPods sold at the start because they were cool but now everyone has one, so why is it still the dominant MP3 player?
I think this is actually the halo effect coming to fruition where users of the iPod move on to Macs. It spurred my decision to switch but it wasn't about being 'cool'. It was, and is, all about usability and design and that's the impression that the products and the stores emanate.
"Apple does so well because they're not selling Windows."
Yes, but for no other reason than their OS is not Windows. - zang74, on 10/11/2007, -8/+30@flag564
Perhaps you've failed to notice that according to the market share stats since, well, forever, Apple actually does sell more computers than Sony, at least in North America and Europe. While it's nice to look at the "windows crowd" as the sole competition for Apple, the PC world is fragmented to the point where the largest single manufacturer only holds about 16% of the market. There is no dominator, and Apple's 5% looks a hell of a lot better when taken in proper perspective. Stop perpetuating the idea that because windows is on most machines, that the PC world is one large group of affiliated manufacturers. It's not, it's a cut-throat market where everyone's in competition against everyone else.
Apple is certainly not the failing, whimpering company you wish them to be, Flag; They make a larger profit on each machine than any other PC manufacturer; and in North America they're the 5th largest manufacturer beating out Sony, Acer, Lenovo, Compaq and others. - flag564, on 10/11/2007, -16/+8
"Perhaps you've failed to notice that according to the market share stats since, well, forever, Apple actually does sell more computers than Sony, "
Um, where was I talking about Sony in particular?
"Apple is certainly not the failing, whimpering company you wish them to be"
Wish? Wow, I wasn't aware that I was wishing anything. Apple's hardware and OS does extremely poorly compared to PC makers and Microsoft. Without the iPod, they wouldn't even be a remote player. Apple may make a profit on their machines, but who wouldn't when you control the whole machine from start to finish.
And yes the market, despite what you may think, isn't divided into Apple and Levono and Dell and Gateway ect. It is Apple and PCs. Apple sells a system that runs primarily Apple's own OS. When Apple allows everyone else to run OSX (which they wont because it would ruin them) then you can lump them all together into one big pile. - alakev, on 10/11/2007, -5/+9@flag564
now that macs can run windows, by your argument, there should be no competition then, i mean 100% of the market are windows machines. Numbers are not everything, in most cases they are just confusing. - Bojango, on 10/11/2007, -9/+10Actually, in my own experiences, apple hardware has out performed my PC in many cases, as it is not slowed down by a slew of pre-installed third-party software.
As for the market, yes, it is actually broken down by company. Apple is just as much a hardware manufacturer as anyone of those. - zindex, on 10/11/2007, -12/+4why does this always turn out to be a Windows/Mac argument? here's my reason for liking my PC. the PC I'm using is 7 years old and with just 2 upgrades (upgrades for you Mac people is when you open up your computer, and yes a computer can be opened up, and for like $100 to $200 you make your computer better and able to keep running new soft ware. unlike the Mac upgrade were you take your mac and through it out or put it in the corner and run out and but the new one that Jobs says you have to have.) how many mac lovers have one that they use as their main computer that is 7 years old? and I'm talking about Imac's or Emacs's one of the all in one units not the graphic designer models that you can up grade but cost 3K in the first place.
- aristotle0dude, on 10/11/2007, -5/+12@zindex: Please, I can open up my MBP and upgrade my ram or replace my HD with a newer one just like any PC laptop. I could even replace my internal DVD burner with a second HD if I wanted. If you are speaking of motherboard swap on a tower, well once you replace your motherboard with a new generation model, you are basically going to have to throw away your ram and CPU. if you were upgrading on the cusp of the move to PCI-E, SATA and DDR2, you would have to not only have to likely throw most of your old system except perhaps your optical drive (assuming it's not too old), your PSU (assuming it's not too old) and your case (assuming your new motherboard fits).
In that last scenario, you are basically buying a new machine for all intents and purposes so I don't see any advantage there. Rather, I would see more of an advantage of selling the old machine and buying a new one as you might get some money for the older system.
I remember the old days of accelerator boards and such "upgrades" provided diminishing returns and I would expect that keeping slow ram and slow hard drives with a new motherboard would also provide limited improvements compared to a new system.
Basically, you are telling us that you like to tinker and that fine but don't go and try to pass it off as an advantage for the average non-geek. - zindex, on 10/11/2007, -8/+3all I've upgraded is my RAM added 512 and changed out the video card and thats it. and the PC runs fine. even a monkey could change those to things. and as I write this I'm burning a CD, playing streamming music, responding to your Apple brain washed ass.
- alakev, on 10/11/2007, -4/+4@zindex
Those seems like the reasons why you DON'T like macs, but whatever, to me, the difference, is that most people CHOOSE their macs, it doesn't matter if macs are better, they must have something people like otherwise I can't see why they sell so well in a PC world. - axemachine, on 10/11/2007, -8/+5@ zang74
Sure, that Redneck mentality is going to make Apple big. Two per cent of the grobal market share is such a big achievenemt, something to be proud of. So you think Sony/Nintendo/Toyota/Toshiba etc would be where they are today just being comfortable with their "home" market share? There is a reason why IBM/HP/Microsoft are world known %. It's call "world vision" - colincornaby, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7"It's not as if Apple is outselling them by any means. PC are sold in some of the largest retailers on the planet in far more locations. Those places may not look like an interior designers fantasy run amok, but it gets the job done."
It's important in a business perspective because in the Apple Store, Apple keeps all profit made. In other stores that sell Macs, Apple does not keep the profit margin. This is what makes the Apple stores the most profitable stores per square foot, and Apple an extremely profitable business, moreso than other PC makers. - zang74, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3@flag564:
"Apple's hardware and OS does extremely poorly compared to PC makers and Microsoft. Without the iPod, they wouldn't even be a remote player. Apple may make a profit on their machines, but who wouldn't when you control the whole machine from start to finish."
And this is where you ignored everything I said. Apple does not do "poorly" when compared to PC makers. Being the #5 manufacturer, it does quite well, pulling down about 1/3 the sales of the either Dell or HP, something that Sony, Toshiba, Acer, Gateway and others aren't able to do. By your logic, they must be failures too, right?
The OS manufacturer is not the PC manufacturer, and you can't seem to divide the two in your mind. "Windows" isn't a brand of computer, it's an operating system. The OS is but one component of the computer, much as the USB controller, DVD manufacturer, whathaveyou. Your poorly veiled attempts to polarize things in (again) *APPLE TOPIC STORIES*, is sad. You are as much a troll as you deny yourself being, and whether you like it or not Apple is a successful company doing great business. If they weren't, they'd have been out of business a long time ago, and certainly wouldn't have the market cap and investors they have. Face it flag, it's not 1993 anymore. Get over it and move on.
"Apple may make a profit on their machines, but who wouldn't when you control the whole machine from start to finish."
Microsoft does the same with the Xbox, and that division still has yet to make a profit.
- writh3n, on 10/11/2007, -28/+10completely open the mac platform so I can build my own mac and we'll see how successful the stores turn out to be.
- PueSi, on 10/11/2007, -23/+6Or better yet, release OS X for any x86 computer.
- meatmcguffin, on 10/11/2007, -4/+18Apple sort-of tried that once with the clones and that was a miserable failure that nearly ran them out of the market.
Even now they will never be just a software developer. Seeing as OS X is so much cheaper than Vista, the nearest competitor, they would have to rely on a *massive* volume of sales to bring their profits up to what they are achieving now. The alternative is to bring prices up to to match Vista, the current price ceiling, which alienates existing OS X users and discourages potential switches from testing the water.
Either way, Apple reduce their profit. - Boondoggle, on 10/11/2007, -7/+24 by writh3n 31 minutes ago
completely open the mac platform so I can build my own mac and we'll see how successful the stores turn out to be.
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Yeah, because all those happy shoppers at the Apple Stores would rather be spending thier time building systems than doing real work, or just having fun. /sarc.
In the REAL WORLD, system builders do not represent a significant piece of the market. - skidooer, on 10/11/2007, -19/+7"Seeing as OS X is so much cheaper than Vista"
Actually, they are roughly the same price. OS X is only sold as an upgrade version; seeing as how selling a "full" version would be completely silly. - hyukhyuk, on 10/11/2007, -4/+26@skidooer
OS X is only sold as a full version, there are no 'upgrades'.
If I have a G3 iMac that came with OS 9 installed, and I buy a retail copy of OS X 10.4 for $129 that's not an upgrade, that's installing a complete OS that's five generations newer.
I am running 10.4 on a six-year-old 600Mhz G3 iMac and it runs perfectly well (faster than 10.3, which was faster than 10.2) , all it lacks are the Quartz graphics effects
Installing an upgrade copy of Vista renders my copy of XP unusable, whereas I can legally sell each previous copy of Mac OS X when I install the next one.
Retail copies of OS X do not require evidence of a previous installation of OS X in order to work.
A new version of OS X does not reuse any code from a previous installation of OS X and can be installed on a brand new, blank hard drive.
I presume you are suggesting that because OS X will only officially run on a Mac (and therefore on a computer with Mac OS installed) that it is automatically an upgrade. But for all practical purposes, it is a full OS.
Unless of course you are using that age-old argument that 10.4 is just a point 'upgrade' to 10.3 (like a Windows service pack) ... I had hoped people had got past that tired debate a long time ago. - cypherz, on 10/11/2007, -3/+20@skidooer
I'm not sure I understand. How is OS X only sold as an upgrade? My "upgrade" copies of Tiger will boot and install onto a completely unformatted drive. The install doesn't ask for a previous version in order to complete the install. How is this like an upgrade version of Windows? What on earth do you mean selling a "full version" of OS X would be silly. There's only one version, and it IS a "full version"!
And how are they the same price? How is $129 (OS X) = $259 (Vista Ultimate) ?
OK hyukhyuk beat me to some of this.
Please clear this up for me! - colincornaby, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1"I'm not sure I understand. How is OS X only sold as an upgrade? My "upgrade" copies of Tiger will boot and install onto a completely unformatted drive. The install doesn't ask for a previous version in order to complete the install. How is this like an upgrade version of Windows? What on earth do you mean selling a "full version" of OS X would be silly. There's only one version, and it IS a "full version"!"
I don't agree that Tiger equals the upgrade version of Vista Ultimate, but technically when you buy Tiger it is an upgrade version. Every Mac comes with the Mac OS. Mac OS can only be installed on Macs (legally). Therefore, every copy of Mac OS sold is being sold to upgrade a computer running an earlier copy of Mac OS. So the only license of Mac OS X Apple does sell is an upgrade license.
The reason Tiger does not equal an upgrade license of Vista is simple though. With Macs, Mac OS X comes with the machine for free. With PC's, you have to pay extra for Windows (even if the cost is built in to the price of the machine). So the cost in software to run Mac OS X Tiger is just $129, no matter what Mac you have. The cost in software to run Vista is whatever you paid for Windows to begin with (at full price), plus the Vista upgrade cost, which in the end, is going to end up costing the same price as the full version of Vista. - adc86, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6I disagree; Software exists on a hard drive. I can purchase a new hard drive (even one brazened with Designed for Windows XP) and install a full copy of OS X on it. I do not need to first install one OS, and then 'upgrade' it.
Your car came with an engine. If you purchase another engine to install in it, is that engine an "upgrade" engine? No. It will run on its own accord once installed.
In this analogy, I would view an upgrade only as parts that could be installed.
- Pelapp, on 10/11/2007, -20/+4ZOMG! The fanbois have infiltrated the N.Y. Times!!!
- SpoonDigg, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7Apple stores do provide the comfort for anyone. Just about of the different apple stores i've visited everyone is pretty cool. One time I had an issue with my mac os x discs and they right away gave me a new set even with the latest updates... I've been a mac user and windows off and on.. but Apple will always be in my book
- kenvsryu, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Sounds like the sony store needs to find competent help.
- smoothlou, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8I went to a Sony Store right after leaving the Apple Store at the Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg. I was curious about this little MP3 Player that Sony had that was shaped like a bean and had that cool OLED on the face of it, and I was kind of curious to see how it worked.
I asked the guy who greeted me if they stocked that product (describing it just like I did) and the guy was like, "Nope. Never heard of it." I walked 10 steps behind him and they had a whole display of them. More importantly, it was locked up in a display so you couldn't even see them in action which would more than likely have sold me on it, but I just walked out. Apple Store FTW.
- smoothlou, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8I went to a Sony Store right after leaving the Apple Store at the Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg. I was curious about this little MP3 Player that Sony had that was shaped like a bean and had that cool OLED on the face of it, and I was kind of curious to see how it worked.
- Burritoboy, on 10/11/2007, -2/+37I'm a retail designer. I have to say that the Apple stores have been discussed in our office for a number of years, due to the pace of expansion and success of the brand. They work due to all the right factors being in place.
1) No store theming.
2) Product is organized around solutions in the store. Video, Digital photography, music etc.
3) Non-intrusive knowledgeable staff.
4) Int ant gratification, see product - buy product.
5) Clear graphics.
6) They are a destination, passing trade is secondary.
7) Good locations.
It's all so obvious but most clients don't see it that way.
Apple's product is paired down. Doing this for the PC market is difficult. I have often thought of how to brand a generic PC store and organise it and I every time I do it, I come up with a Fry's.
PCs encompass too much stuff, it's difficult to loose that and retain any cred in the marketplace.
My two cents.
BB- egrumling, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Don't forget... You can touch the stuff. Sony has some of the coolest HD camcorders out there, but they are all locked up tight. And don't even try to ask to see one. The TVs are all running the same blue ray demo disc, and the DVR/home AV system/slingbox device is just sitting there, not even plugged in. And if you try to touch one of the laptops, you get pounced on. Heck, even crappy Best Buy is a better experience, and you wallet doesn't get raped.
Compare that to going to a high end (local owned) stereo shop. Night and day. If I'm going to drop $2K+ on a home theater, I had better feel good about the purchase. Most high end guys have figured that out. So has Apple.
- egrumling, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Don't forget... You can touch the stuff. Sony has some of the coolest HD camcorders out there, but they are all locked up tight. And don't even try to ask to see one. The TVs are all running the same blue ray demo disc, and the DVR/home AV system/slingbox device is just sitting there, not even plugged in. And if you try to touch one of the laptops, you get pounced on. Heck, even crappy Best Buy is a better experience, and you wallet doesn't get raped.
- Comanche, on 10/11/2007, -3/+14From the article: "Sony already has the stores. What it lacks among its offerings is a machine so extraordinary that people would come just to gawk at it, and then, perhaps, would notice surrounding products that shine in the reflected light."
Ummm Sony's goal is not computers....Its consumer electronics. IMO the Bravia TVs are what bring in people to the stores. This article doesent seem to get that SONY is sold EVERYWHERE, and the prices are more flexable to the retailer, so people can go anywhere to get a deal on Sony product.
How many times have I seen an online bestbuy sale and everything is 5-15% off except for the apple products.
If the Sony stores would not sell for "Sony's Price" then I would shop there, not at BestBuy or any other big box.- kheldorin, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6Meh, business journalists are fickle. It wasn't too long ago that they praised Dell's business model. The fact is they don't really know why it works, only that it works and then they start making speculation on why it does. In this case, it's not even clear whether it works. It's not as if the Macs are gaining marketshare. This strategy only works for niche markets and PCs are not one. That's why iPods are sold everywhere and not just in Apple stores. Just because one strategy "works" for a company doesn't mean that they would for another.
- MacParrot, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7Yes, except Apple IS gaining market share with the Mac. It isn't growing in leaps or bounds (typically only percentages of a point per quarter), but it is growing and has been for almost every quarter reported over the last few years. Windows has the business market pretty much sewn up (which accounts for most of the market), so Apple isn't going to suddenly get 20% of the market.
Apple mostly sells to the home and high-end market. This enables them to have higher profit per machine. Apple is doing quite well these days and no amount of FUD is going to change that. If they fall flat on their faces with some product launch like the iPhone (or whatever else they have up their sleeves) and lose a lot of money then maybe they'll be in trouble again. But for now, they're doing just just fine. Don't like them? Go buy something else. Most sane Mac people won't care (as most sane Windows people don't care about Macs). Are you sane or insane. What you post speaks volumes about the kind of person you are.
- ModOps, on 10/11/2007, -4/+40I bought my iPod used from CompUSA. It hadn't been heavily used, just a few minor light scratches and such. Two months ago, it started to fail - it would play for 4-5 minutes then die. I took it to the local Apple store, and they told me they could replace it since I had bought it within the warranty period, but wait - because I had bought it used, the system was showing it out of warranty! They told me if I could find my receipt from CompUSA, I could *change* the original purchase date so it would reflect the date *I* actually bought it. I got the receipt, called up Apple, got them to change the purchase date, and brought the iPod back to the Apple store. In less than 20 minutes I was out the door with a brand new iPod.
Yeah, Apple sure does suck.- RoyalFool, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6I'm not into Apple, but ModOps' story is cool. Kudos.
- pshapiro, on 10/11/2007, -5/+4apple has a human bandwith problem at their genius bars. it's time for dual genius bars in apple stores.
see http://bandwidthproblemsolved.blogspot.com/- thegoodknife, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1agreed. it should be so hard.
- qpid, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1I am just sure that apple would love to make "executive" level stores in existence to other stores. Executive level customers do not want to go somewhere else for support, they drove to the store they want help HERE and NOW! Also what about normal customers who walk into an executive store, do they not get helped and therefore leave pissed or do they get helped and if so then this ruins the whole executive level appeal
- guice, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1It sounds good, but I don't agree with: "Apple no longer needs stores which attractively display its merchandise."
That's the whole point of the Apple stores; nice wide open stores in which you're not feeling clausterphobic trying to fit through isles of merchandies or stands.
I also agree with the qpid's comment about the Executive level support. Too much. - AaronD12, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1The Northpark mall store (Dallas, TX) has dual genius bars -- one for iPods and one for Macs. There is also another "bar" for video stuff. It's pretty neat, but they're STILL backed up. They need more geniuses, not more genius bars.
- Burritoboy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Sony's retail presence is mainly that of a network of franchises, very few if any of the stores are owned by
Sony directly. This is certainly the case in Hong Kong and China.
So quite often Sony has little or no control over the store design or the way the shop is managed. There will possibly be a set of guidelines but franchises will quite often claim lack of cash to make Sony let them do it their way.
Most of the Sony shops I have been in have been OK but a bit 90's cyber-look, nothing you can play with and more expensive than Mr Grey Box round the corner.
BB- FuZi0nDET, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1That's not correct, every Sony Style in the United States is part of the Sony Corp.
- Lacero, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6Problem with the Sony Stores is you know you're about to get ripped off by their high prices if you decide to buy anything in there. Most of the time they don't carry what I'm looking for, and if it's something I want to buy, it's usually behind glass so you can't touch and play with it.
You can find cheaper Sony products from other retailers or on-line. No need ever to shop at a Sony store. - toxicityj, on 10/11/2007, -9/+4"Customers don't want to think. They want simplicity. Apple gives it to them. Laptop or Desktop? Mac Pro or iMac? 17" 20" or 24"? Done! That's how simple it is to by a Mac.
Compare that to shopping for a PC. What size hard drive do you want? How much RAM? Celeron, Core Duo, Core 2 Duo, AMD? What speed? What case size? Need a monitor? It goes on and on. Walk into any store with Windows computers, and you are completely overwhelmed by choices. Consumers don't like too many choices - it confuses them."
Since when did limiting customization and eliminating the consumer's choice become a good idea? But hey whatever if Apple has to dumb down their product for their idiot consumers, more power to 'em.
and furthermore, when you go shopping for a PC its nothing like you described. You don't walk into a store and go through and pick out your ram, processor, hard drive, etc. You pick from a plethora of PCs ranging from cheap and crappy to expensive and powerful. And if you go to the right store (aka NOT walmart), usually the staff around the computer section is experienced enough to tell you what you'll need based on what you do.- guice, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3It's about Keeping it Simple with the option to expand if they so desire. You DO have the option to add on additional options upon purchase.
- udahlen, on 10/11/2007, -8/+7Most people do not understand computers. That's why they buy Windows, whick makes them understand even less.
- Ramble, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Are you talking about computers or operating systems?
- aristotle0dude, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4@ramble: So tell me, how useful is that liquid cooled, supped up über gaming rig without an operating system?
Hardware is useless without software. Staring at the Clock speed in a bios screen only holds interest so long.
- Kwipper, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1Blah
- toxicityj, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2"nd how are they the same price? How is $129 (OS X) = $259 (Vista Ultimate) ?"
first of all it makes no sense to compare osx to the most expensive of the Vistas.
second of all Vista Ultimate is $400, not $259. and if you think thats redicilous, remember that people pay that much for mediocre SOFTWARE from adobe and Vista is a full blown OS.
but either way you're right. they're not the same price. i dunno wth that guy was talkign about. - jcalhoon84, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I just think this article is funny, because I was torn between buying a brand new Sony that had almost the exact same specs as the Macbook Pro that I purchased. But, the culture of the store and my Mac obsessed friend combined to make me a into a Mac lover.
I love the store, and the customer service Apple has in general. I moved to Kuwait, 1 month after making my purchase. The couple of times I've had to call to ask a question or to take care of a faulty battery (the one they sent as my replacement for Sony's recall was actually faulty), they were quick and didn't make stupid comments they actually knew about the computer. And, they spoke English as a first language, THANK GOD! - toxicityj, on 10/11/2007, -5/+1"Unless of course you are using that age-old argument that 10.4 is just a point 'upgrade' to 10.3 (like a Windows service pack) ... I had hoped people had got past that tired debate a long time ago."
well it is...
difference being sps are free...- Boondoggle, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1 by toxicityj on 5/27/07
"Unless of course you are using that age-old argument that 10.4 is just a point 'upgrade' to 10.3 (like a Windows service pack) ... I had hoped people had got past that tired debate a long time ago."
"well it is...
difference being sps are free..."
------------------------------------------------------
Ever try booting your system off an SP installer?
- Boondoggle, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1 by toxicityj on 5/27/07
- dagamer34, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12Sony stores fail because it would literally take a Genius to learn all the different problems Windows XP/Vista can have on a Sony laptop. You've got to fight both Sony hardware and Microsoft software. I don't think any one human is strong enough to survive both.
- flag564, on 10/11/2007, -9/+4"Sony stores fail because it would literally take a Genius to learn all the different problems Windows XP/Vista can have on a Sony laptop."
Like?
Dont just toss out some generic statement. Tell us what these problems, that Im sure have no equal on an Apple machine, are. - axemachine, on 10/11/2007, -7/+7@ okokokok
Get that Apple dildo out. It's corrupting your brain. - flag564, on 10/11/2007, -6/+7"Do you have a Vista logo tattoo on your forehead or something?"
No
"Every god-damned thing you post is either anti-apple or pro-Microsoft."
Anti Apple? No, I point out hypocritical statements from Apple fanatics. I am critical of their in your face arrogance. That is not anti-Apple.
I am not so much Pro-Microsoft as I point out when people apply a double standard to MS that they would not apply to Apple or Linux. It may seem like Im being "pro-Microsoft" but in reality i'm being fair to them, which is a rarity in the tech world.
" Looking at your history you are simply a pathetic troll who gathers his life force from hanging out in the Apple section of digg making idiotic comments."
Idiotic comments? Like?
I may say things that make Apple fanatics uneasy, like an alternative viewpoint, but that does not equal "pathetic troll".
I could just say things along the lines of "windoze" or "Micro$uck" if that will elevate me in the eyes of Apple users, if that is what you want?
"You're a simple minded little Microsoft bitch."
The majority of my computers use Linux. Gates isnt sending me any checks.
As for the substance of what you posted, I wouldn't think that there would be driver issues since Sony makes their own computers and most likely test them before they leave the factory. Why would they honestly ship machines that have driver issues? That would mean part of the hardware they shipped didn't work. That's just silly.
- flag564, on 10/11/2007, -9/+4"Sony stores fail because it would literally take a Genius to learn all the different problems Windows XP/Vista can have on a Sony laptop."
- opusaz, on 10/11/2007, -5/+5I was in Best Buy yesterday. They had one sad looking MacBook on a shelf surrounded by PC laptops. The MacBook looked old, used, tired. It wasn't. It just appeared that way in its surroundings. Interestingly enough, the PC laptops looked normal. It was as though the Mac needed a cool environment or it wouldn't come to life.
- Koyder, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15If I were surrounded by PCs, I'd be sad-looking, too.
- astrosmash, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Yeah, I've seen the same sorry sight at Best Buy and Future Shop (in Canada). I don't understand why Apple would want to sell their stuff at these places.
Future Shop had a couple of iMacs and a couple of MacBooks on demo. The MacBooks were incredibly dirty and all of the machines were intentionally misconfigured: bizarre accessibility options were enabled like giant mouse cursors, sticky keys, and key click sounds; mouse tracking speeds were all messed up, all the icons removed from the dock, idiotic Finder view settings, etc.
It was a great example of how to advertise Macs in a PC store, if you hate Apple. - NewChar, on 10/11/2007, -6/+2If Apple wouldn't make their machines "kitchen-appliance" white, they certainly wouldn't be so dirty.
- vagarach, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1It's an awesome way to see what the very nice, cleanly designed white or black laptop would look like after say 5 years of heavy use, all from just a few months at a best buy, futureshop, or staples. Surprisingly, the macbooks I have seen actually did very well, particularly the black ones. The apple stores, however, make doubly sure everything is just as nice as it would be out of the box.
I visited the apple store at the Eaton centre in Toronto, and it really was packed, very noisy and full of people more there to play than to buy, so I quickly looked around, had a look at the macbook pro's screen (which was way too dim even at full brightness to appear nice and bright inside the store) and left. - celerate, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@astrosmash
If it weren't for FutureShop carrying Macs I would never have bought one, it was the first time I saw a humongous G4 iMac towering over me from one of their store shelves that I decided I wanted one of those things... until I saw the price tag.
Now I have a Mac Mini, that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't seen some Macs in FutureShop that day. Except for a few commercials, most of which are for the iPod, Apple doesn't reach out much to people who don't live near an Apple store. - astrosmash, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Yeah, I guess that's the tradeoff between accessibility and having monkeys sell your product.
Incidentally, London Drugs is a fantastic place to shop for Macs, or any computer for that matter, and they're on damn near every street corner in Vancouver. The price are good and the sales staff actually know their stuff and are reputable members of society (unlike the jackasses at Future Shop). Unfortunately, they're not found outside of BC and Alberta. - Boondoggle, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1 by opusaz on 5/27/07
+ 1 digg
I was in Best Buy yesterday. They had one sad looking MacBook on a shelf surrounded by PC laptops. The MacBook looked old, used, tired. It wasn't. It just appeared that way in its surroundings. Interestingly enough, the PC laptops looked normal. It was as though the Mac needed a cool environment or it wouldn't come to life.
------------------------------
You can thank the ingorant staff for that.
- Topher06, on 10/11/2007, -5/+3What is this article talking about? I mean, there are like 50 to 1 stores that sell PC products over Mac products. PC product seem to sell pretty well anyways, regardless of the "challenges" (rolls eyes) that daunt PC users and retailers. While Apple has put a whole lot of epmhasis into making their retail experience smooth and efficient just like their products, I think its a bit much to suggest that Apple should teach the PC industry how to sell products. If Apple owned 95% of the market, then yes, Apple has some knowledge to share. If anything Apple should be scratching their heads wondering why PC's sell so well IN SPITE of everything Apple has done to make the retail and consumer experience exceptional (i.e. perhaps spend less time worrying about making the experience exceptional). Obviously consumers don't really care if its easy or not to buy a computer, but ultimately what they do after the retail experience, and obviously Apple lacks in some fundamental way that hasn't allowed them to gain marketshare in 30 years.
As for Sony and their stores, well, Sony needs to do a lot more then improve their retail experience in order to save face. Dropping rootkit DRM and exploding batteries and other nonsense like that will be a beginning in letting consumers gain confidence in Sony to a point where they actually want to enter a Sony Store. But remember, Sony does sell more then computers in their stores. In fact in most I have seen the Vaio section is about a few shelves in the corner of the store. Sony isn't really banking on their Vaio lineup for their bread and butter.- qpid, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3Apple has only been in the retail business for 5-6 years and every year they grow marketshare. It won't happen tomorrow that they will be 50% of the market, hell Dell only has about 16% of all PCs. Plus apple isn't necessarily looking to be 90% of the market. They enjoy being a niche player like Mercedes or Lexus.
- axemachine, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2"Obviously consumers don't really care if its easy or not to buy a computer, but ultimately what they do after the retail experience, and obviously Apple lacks in some fundamental way that hasn't allowed them to gain marketshare in 30 years."
Ouch! That's got to hurt. Well said. - Boondoggle, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1 by Topher06 on 5/27/07
- 2 diggs
"What is this article talking about? I mean, there are like 50 to 1 stores that sell PC products over Mac products. PC product seem to sell pretty well anyways, regardless of the "challenges" (rolls eyes) that daunt PC users and retailers. While Apple has put a whole lot of epmhasis into making their retail experience smooth and efficient just like their products, I think its a bit much to suggest that Apple should teach the PC industry how to sell products. If Apple owned 95% of the market, then yes, Apple has some knowledge to share. If anything Apple should be scratching their heads wondering why PC's sell so well IN SPITE of everything Apple has done to make the retail and consumer experience exceptional (i.e. perhaps spend less time worrying about making the experience exceptional). Obviously consumers don't really care if its easy or not to buy a computer, but ultimately what they do after the retail experience, and obviously Apple lacks in some fundamental way that hasn't allowed them to gain marketshare in 30 years."
----------------------------------
The article was a discussion of branded stores, not PC vs Apple. Apple does thier branded stores better that Sony. Obvioulsy better than Gateway. Probably much better than Dell. That was the point of the article. You might want to take a look at it.
Apple has been gaining customers, and they are also gaining market share. Apple is the 4th or 5th largest computer maker in the U.S. There are lots of factors at work that keep Windows market share high that have nothing to do with the relative merits of the products.
"As for Sony and their stores, well, Sony needs to do a lot more then improve their retail experience in order to save face. Dropping rootkit DRM and exploding batteries and other nonsense like that will be a beginning in letting consumers gain confidence in Sony to a point where they actually want to enter a Sony Store. But remember, Sony does sell more then computers in their stores. In fact in most I have seen the Vaio section is about a few shelves in the corner of the store. Sony isn't really banking on their Vaio lineup for their bread and butter."
---------------------------------
You might be interested to know that Apple has now branched into a few consumer electronics devices as well. They have this thing called the iPod. Something to do with music or video, time will tell if it will sell. And there is a rumor they are working on a telephone. /sarc.
- bimbom, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5FREE INTERNET!
all that other stuff is cool too, but walking in and checking your email at the mall totally kills - UberC, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3An article praising Apple and bashing Sony. Time for a digg orgasm.
- Gee1004, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2What an Apple store has over the other stores that you test drive a Mac better. I walked into an Apple store, took a picture with the camera, worked with it on their Mac and emailed to a relative in the store. Best Buy, Sony, Compusa nor Frys lets you do that. My relative was impressed and bought a Mac the following week.
- Zachari, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1I didn't know that having internet and using e-mail in a store was so valuable. For the record, when I bought my laptop at Best Buy, I took a picture of myself and worked on it in the store. The particular store I shop at has routers set up and running to test their capabilities with certain other products, and you can connect to them. I emailed it to myself. That same day I bought the laptop.
Your story is basically saying that because of the inclusion of webcams and internet in the store, Macs are superior. - Boondoggle, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1 by Zachari on 5/27/07
- 1 digg
I didn't know that having internet and using e-mail in a store was so valuable. For the record, when I bought my laptop at Best Buy, I took a picture of myself and worked on it in the store. The particular store I shop at has routers set up and running to test their capabilities with certain other products, and you can connect to them. I emailed it to myself. That same day I bought the laptop.
Your story is basically saying that because of the inclusion of webcams and internet in the store, Macs are superior.
----------------------------------------
Don't be a *****. He is saying that because it was easy to test out the functionality they had confidence the product would work for them. Your experience was similar. Does that invalidate his story? You can do that in every Apple Store. Can you do it in every Best Buy or every store that sells PCs?
- Zachari, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1I didn't know that having internet and using e-mail in a store was so valuable. For the record, when I bought my laptop at Best Buy, I took a picture of myself and worked on it in the store. The particular store I shop at has routers set up and running to test their capabilities with certain other products, and you can connect to them. I emailed it to myself. That same day I bought the laptop.
- AaronD12, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4In the Northpark Mall here in Dallas, there is a full-sized Apple store on the lower level and a similarly-sized Dell store on the upper level, nearly facing each other.
The Apple store is ALWAYS full -- almost to the point of having to squeeze by people during the weekends. The Dell store usually has about 5-10 people in it.
One of the amusing things I overheard at the Apple store was a new computer purchaser asking the Apple sales rep, "You keep these in stock, right? I don't have to order online."
He had obviously been to the Dell store first, and become frustrated that you cannot walk out of their store with a Dell computer. Sale lost.- egrumling, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1That's something I never got with the Gateway stores. If you went to the Gateway website (or Dell, etc), there is a limited choice of video cards, hard drives, ram, etc. Why couldn't they build a PC in an hour or so (heck, they can make glasses that fast)? It shouldn't be too big a deal, even with installing an OS, just have the generic OS loaded on all the hard drives with all the drivers necessary already. Even the motherborards and processor choices are pretty generic. Everything else is just printers and stuff. If a customer wants something specific, they may have to order it, but for 95% of the public you should be able to have them walking out the door that day with a new machine. The other 5% can stick to pricewatch.com
Or am I missing something?
- egrumling, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1That's something I never got with the Gateway stores. If you went to the Gateway website (or Dell, etc), there is a limited choice of video cards, hard drives, ram, etc. Why couldn't they build a PC in an hour or so (heck, they can make glasses that fast)? It shouldn't be too big a deal, even with installing an OS, just have the generic OS loaded on all the hard drives with all the drivers necessary already. Even the motherborards and processor choices are pretty generic. Everything else is just printers and stuff. If a customer wants something specific, they may have to order it, but for 95% of the public you should be able to have them walking out the door that day with a new machine. The other 5% can stick to pricewatch.com
- Gee1004, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2@Zachari
It was valuable because you are "using" the computer before buying it, not just buying it because it looks pretty or the magazine article says it good.
Do you buy a car before test driving it or just sit in the car?- Zachari, on 10/11/2007, -3/+0I just told you a story about how I "test drove" the laptop I bought. Or did you miss that? You can get the same experience for PC's at many stores. Hell, I get a great test drive experience, and I live in backwards Louisiana.
- cybersalad, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0I'm a huge fan of Sony laptops--their TX series ultraportables are my personal favorite. But SonyStyle stores are pretty weak. Mostly because Sony products are boring--most of the stuff they make, nobody wants. Their "MP3" players have always been half-baked (due to Sony Music's insistence on them not actually playing MP3s), the PS3 is face-planting, and what exactly is the point of the Mylo??
The centerpiece of the stores these days are their TVs, which are very nice. But it's hard to get all giddy about a Bravia. Especially when the 70 inch version is $40,000! Plus, all of the stuff they sell at the SonyStyle store, you can buy online for cheaper. Which is a key point with the Apple stores--Apple equipment has very little price deviation whether you buy it from Apple or a third party. So there's frequently a reason to buy retail. - abhiroop, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3I think apple got it right by targeting a user base that think RAM is some sort of an animal. The "techies" are a comparitvely small minority. Also most "techies" would prefer to sit at home and preconfigure their PC/Mac over the net rather than do this at a store. Finding the right specs at a store are next to impossible. So, by making the product line so limited apple is essentially taking away the need for people to have to make decisions they don't even understand.
- bbardlbradd, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3"Just connect... your monitors to our Macs" - Apple
- gafasiesornivek, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3Figured what out? PC's outsell Macs by a huge margin.
- skidooer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1"I'm not sure I understand. How is OS X only sold as an upgrade?"
You can't legally install OS X on anything but a Mac. You were required to buy the full version of OS X when you bought your Mac. Therefore any boxed copy of OS X you purchase will always be an upgrade version. That is why it's an upgrade and that is why selling a "full" version would be silly.
"The install doesn't ask for a previous version in order to complete the install."
Why would it? For all intents and purposes, you can only install it if you already have a license for a "full" version. Adding any other checks would be a waste of time for everyone involved.- superkendall, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1An upgrade would require a prevous version. With any OS X disc I can take a blank Mac and install OS X on it. How can an "upgrade" work when there is nothing to upgrade?
Unless you want to say any act of installation is an upgrade, then there are only upgrade versions of windows too. However, that would be insane. - skidooer, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0"An upgrade would require a prevous version."
It does. You can't buy a Mac without an Apple operating system. And you can't install OS X on anything other than a Mac. Because of that the boxed copy already knows that you have a license to use MacOS so it doesn't need to check for an existing installation. - MacParrot, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2skidooer,
If I have a Mac and I remove the hard drive or the hard drive fails, after putting in a new hard drive, what will that machine do? Nothing. I take ANY OS X disk, insert it into the optical drive and install. No serial numbers, no previous system needs to be there to verify that I have a legal copy of OS X. It isn't an upgrade, it's simply an install.
Now if I have an upgrade disk for Windows and I try to install it on a blank drive, what happens? - skidooer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+0"Now if I have an upgrade disk for Windows and I try to install it on a blank drive, what happens?"
It asks you to prove that you have a Windows license by inserting the media the older version of Windows came on. Apple doesn't need you to prove it, they already know you have a license.
- superkendall, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1An upgrade would require a prevous version. With any OS X disc I can take a blank Mac and install OS X on it. How can an "upgrade" work when there is nothing to upgrade?
- smokeyghetto, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3"RETAIL is supposed to be hard. Apple has made it seem ridiculously easy. And yet it must be harder than it appears, or why hasn’t the Windows side of the personal computer business figured it out?"
Apple makes it seem easy because they happen to have innovative products that entice people to buy them. It's no secret. The secret to retail (or any sales) is to have a product that people want to buy. Whether it's good or bad.
Refine, Reinvent, Return customers. - nogami, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Just connect... Unless you happen to be trying to connect to Myspace while you're actually inside an Apple store :P
N. - Neorio, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Over here in Shibuya, Tokyo they have live acts playing in the store on Sunday.
Generates a crowd who then start to play with the goodies on the tables. - nousplacidus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Macs are wonderful once you get your hands on one and the people at apple knew this. I think also that in recent years no one had a reason to buy a mac so having that hands on touch in person made the difference in alot of ways. Otherwise its just another computer on the internet thats a little different.
seeing is believing when it comes to macs I guess. - syafthegeek, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Apple have made it simple for customers. Don't other retailers should do the same?
- collywolly, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2"Apple has made it seem ridiculously easy. And yet it must be harder than it appears, or why hasn ’t the Windows side of the personal computer business figured it out?"
Funny that, I always thought it was Windows that were on 90+ % of the machines on the market, and Apple is at about 3-5% depending what figures you read........
Seem that Windows has retail figured out a bit better than Apple if you ask me.
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