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- nxusername, on 10/12/2009, -17/+62Apple is starting to become Nazis with the iPhone. I got screwed by them last week when I sent mine in for service. They said the liquid sensors indicated my iPhone had been submerged. I was like "no it didn't" and they said "too bad". Then I found this and got really pissed:
http://techgeist.net/2009/09/apple-iphone-abuse-de ... - gr33nie, on 10/13/2009, -8/+51As much as I really love Apple, they seem to have got this whole app store thing a bit wrong. If I don't like a paid app on my Android phone, I simply go back to it on the Market within 24 hours and click the "Refund" button. Simple and no questions asked.
- UnseenLlama, on 10/13/2009, -7/+39This is complete crap. I've called Apple support before and have gotten refunds for an apps multiple times. Most recently for the POS TomTom app.
- cbeach, on 10/13/2009, -27/+56Seems we've all forgotten about another sensationalist digg article called "Apple refunds could bankrupt developers"
http://digg.com/apple/iPhone_App_Refund_Policies_C ...
So which is it to be, Diggers? Either we're going to see:
- so many refunds that devs are bankrupted
- barely any refunds, as per the latest article
Both can't be true.
Stop with the anti-Apple agenda please. - Mateo2, on 10/13/2009, -1/+24Both criticisms are valid. Users should be able to refund within a reasonable time frame and developers shouldn't be stuck with 100% of the refund. The former is just common market policy, and the latter is the only ethical way to handle refunds.
- inactive, on 10/13/2009, -8/+29What kind of ***** spends $100 on an app they they aren't %100 sure on in the first place
- silentpl, on 10/13/2009, -3/+23That's the whole idea behind electronic stores. Kindle, Marketplace, MS App store, Steam.
YOU CANNOT RETURN or RESELL. - newms32, on 10/13/2009, -6/+23Software has been unreturnable for decades and people are crying now? The rise of the emo has gone too far.
- smashingmonkey, on 10/13/2009, -3/+20Those "sensors" are BS. Other phones put the sensors on the battery. I'm thoroughly convinced that they get "tripped" simply from the humidity in your pants pocket created by normal perspiration on hot days. It doesn't happen in a single day, but it does happen over time.
- D4RK354B3R, on 10/13/2009, -12/+29Hence the purpose of "lite" apps.
- Mateo2, on 10/13/2009, -4/+20Lite apps clog up the App store and are an inconvenience for developers. A 24 hour, or heck a 2 hour, refund policy is the best possible solution but Apple is notorious for once it has your money it's not giving it back.
- Quasic, on 10/13/2009, -11/+26Anti-Apple agenda?
Are you insane? Almost every outlet of the internet and TV is gushing over Apple products.
This is a genuine criticism of a very controlling policy that is typical of this company. - CanadaMan87, on 10/13/2009, -5/+18Are you surprised? Software has never been returnable; why would it be any different for iPhone?
- 32bytes, on 10/13/2009, -5/+18Computer says no!
- ricksite, on 10/13/2009, -3/+16From reading some of the other posts, it sounds like you can get a refund. Boxed software has traditionally been you open it, you keep it.
- ArthasLK, on 10/13/2009, -3/+16I'm confused here. Why is Apple being singled out when all other similar platforms don't have refunds either? Its easier to point finger at Apple than Microsoft or Blackberry who have exact same policy on this.
- JayClark, on 10/13/2009, -0/+12So have I. I was charged the wrong price for an app, and when I complained via email they immediately refunded me, so problem.
The app is still on my phone, by the way, but the app store doesn't recognize that I've purchased it, which means no updates and no reviewing. I'm fine with with that. - UnseenLlama, on 10/13/2009, -1/+10Call or email, whichever you think will work for you. There is also a link within your iTunes account to "Report a problem" which will contact customer support. There are multiple ways to get to them.
- ibeetle, on 10/13/2009, -4/+13Apparently a lot of dick heads over on the GPS apps. I like the ones who are complaining about functions and features that are not even advertised in the product description.
Many reviews say things like "I was hoping it would have..." You were hoping? Did it say in the product description it would have "X"? - brundlefly76, on 10/13/2009, -1/+9If you want a refund, contact the support address listed for each app on their iTunes Application page.
As an iPhone developer, I occasionally give out refunds to people out-of-band - but only for my royalty (70%).
Most of the refunds I give out are people who simply failed to read the Application Description page and found out the app doesn't do what they assumed it would do when they "looked at the icon and app name."
This is a big frustration for iPhone developers, people who don't bother to read the app description, then give it a one-star trash review because it didn't have a feature they thought it should have, but which it never claimed to have. They do this because in the interface its easier to leave a trash review than to send a support email.
For example, say someone downloads Photoshop for iPhone and then gives it a one-star review because it doesn't support layers. This crap happens all the time!
If people are thoughtful enough to contact my support address about wanting a refund rather then trashing the review average, I am more than happy to refund them in most cases.
I don't blame Apple for not having a refund policy, as I would have asked for a refund for 90% of the apps I have purchased and only paid for the ones I kept ;) - zeth006, on 10/13/2009, -4/+12Sounds like this Macbook owner's story...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PdR8XPt6LE - majortom1981, on 10/13/2009, -9/+17Your talking about apple here. The ones who blast microsoft about their security all the while there machines are deleting peoples data.
- beck5, on 10/13/2009, -2/+9'Demos' should be more prevalent, rather than lite, joe bloggs responds to demo
- ldkronos, on 10/13/2009, -1/+8Lite apps often have limitations, and it doesn't help when what you want to test is prevented by those limits. For example, I was looking for an app that I could use to store a file on my ipod touch so I could take it to another computer and copy it to there. There are a number of apps for that. I chose a free one (WiFi Discover). However, when I tried copying over a multi-gigabyte file, it didn't work. It failed at the 2GB point. So I looked into other applications that handle that. The problem is, they don't state what (if any) file size limit they have, and the free versions all have limitations well under 1GB as an incentive to get you to upgrade. I'm not about to waste money buying another app that can't do what I need, so I just gave up.
- drmsux, on 10/13/2009, -2/+8AppSync is my refund policy -)
- andoru, on 10/13/2009, -1/+7I would not think it difficult to revoke a license for an app. At a guess - I don't have an iPhone.
In many jurisdictions it would be illegal to sell an item if there was no mechanism in place to provide a refund for it. For example, in Australia, any buyer is automatically entitled to a refund if merchandise is faulty or does not perform its function in the way described by the sales material. Even displaying a sign that states "NO REFUNDS" is illegal as it is a dishonest attempt to trick consumers into thinking their basic rights to a refund are waived. - brandonhines, on 10/13/2009, -3/+9Maybe I'm missing something, but what company allows you to return software? None. If there's no demo/trial/etc., then you're on your own.
In a world where restrictive licenses are enforced, digital content is gaining ground, and DRM is everywhere, it's the consumer's responsibility to do research by reading reviews and using trials when available. If there's no trial? Read more reviews. You do research before buying a car, right?
There's no difference between what the App Store is doing or buying a PSN or XBLA or Steam game or buying software from Best Buy. - ldkronos, on 10/13/2009, -3/+9But it's a chicken & egg dilemma. How do you become 100% sure of an app without the opportunity to use it? Not all apps offer a free demo, and even if they do, the free version may not allow use of some of the features you consider important.
- Lunarbunny, on 10/13/2009, -1/+7You're crazy. The rest of the industry typically provides refunds or exchanges for unopened software, but most of the time provides no recourse for opened software. Digital downloads many times have an absolute no refund policy but will make exceptions in some circumstances.
- digghasnoethics, on 10/13/2009, -0/+5I assume that sales of apps in the UK are governed by the distance selling regulations - hence a 7 day 'no quibble' cooling off period. There's no 'seal' to be broken, so that little getout doesn't apply.
Have apple tried to get around this? - ldkronos, on 10/13/2009, -2/+7I've read plenty of reviews for products that appeared to be very good, only to be extremely disappointed when I actually got my hands on the product.
- blapierre, on 10/13/2009, -0/+5Starting?
- mmpre, on 10/13/2009, -6/+10Maybe I'm missing something, but why would they give you a refund after you purchase the software? Could they disable it from running on your phone once a refund is issued or would it still work? If it still ran then I would imagine everyone would try to buy something and then return it.
- Nightfall, on 10/13/2009, -0/+4I agree as well.
I bought an IM program that just didn't work. I emailed Apple support and told them the program was faulty and that I should get a refund. They refunded my money 12 hours later. - Solkre, on 10/13/2009, -0/+4I always forget the Filipino part, but I just tell them I did anyway.
- Tollboi, on 10/13/2009, -0/+4Your hypothesis is dead on. I worked briefly for a phone insurance place, and everyone there knew this to be true. Basically if you have your phone for more than 6 months or so, the moisture dot is turning red. You do not even need to have it in your pocket, if your in the south or somewhere else that is humid it is going to turn red and indicate moisture.
On another note, don't buy phone insurance it is a scam. - mmpre, on 10/13/2009, -1/+5Yeah, I'm just thinking of every day items like video games and cds. I can go to GameStop and buy a game, but once I open it, it's mine, even if the game sucks. Don't get me wrong, I'll probably never own a Mac and don't see a need for the iPhone, but I'm just not shocked by the policy.
- Firstdaughter, on 10/13/2009, -1/+4Dugg up for the LB reference :D
- MacParrot, on 10/13/2009, -0/+3What's an Iphone and don't call me dear.
- Avian00, on 10/13/2009, -2/+5I don't understand why it would be so difficult for Apple to introduce a "trial flag" in their SDK, where the developer could assign a certain number of days before the app automatically self-destructs (or just stops working). If you buy the app, then this flag goes away. It's not like this would be hard. The apps are already completely locked up in Apple's DRM, and it's not the dissimilar to their movie rentals model.
- sodoh, on 10/13/2009, -0/+3Some countries like the UK/Ireland have consumer laws where you as a consumer have a time frame to return an item for a full refund. Of course within reason.
Apple have the ability to pull an app from your phone if needs be. Likewise if you try to buy an app you have already bought you just download it again. So would probably reset that too. - MacParrot, on 10/13/2009, -2/+5That's seems to be an exception to the rule. Read CanadaMan's response above. It's rare that you're allowed to return any software purchase.
- Avian00, on 10/13/2009, -1/+4That argument makes no sense, since the for-pay apps are ALREADY being reverse-engineered (and it's far from easy right now). And the people that would steal a trial app are the same people who are already stealing the for-pay apps. You might as well make the same argument about iTunes movie rentals or the various subscription music services which control access to their content with DRM. Just because the copy-protection could potentially be circumvented doesn't mean you should completely dismiss the business model.
- Lunarbunny, on 10/13/2009, -0/+2It's really hard to detect in an Apple thread, I'm sorry my sarcasm-o-meter was receiving interference from multiple sources.
- GodjustGod, on 10/13/2009, -1/+3That still wouldn't override state law in Pennsylvania... The transaction would be initiated in PA and therefor would be subject to PA laws..
- TexMexRex, on 10/13/2009, -0/+2Sarcasm is a form of humor that uses sharp, cutting remarks or language intended to mock, wound, or subject to contempt or ridicule, generally saying the OPPOSITE of what the statement really is.
- jbmcb, on 10/13/2009, -0/+2Apple would argue to change the venue somewhere else. I'm pretty sure part of the license you agreed to for using their product limits your options to arbitration in a venue of their choosing, anyway.
- GORbyBC, on 10/13/2009, -0/+2Google...
When you install a paid app from the Android Market, you get 24 hours to change your mind and get a full refund.
If you decide to install the app again afterwards, your purchase is final. - Nightfall, on 10/14/2009, -0/+2@Mateo2: Sending a 4 line email is "that much trouble"? Man, I hate to see what you call a small issue. :D
- ArthasLK, on 10/13/2009, -1/+3I'll watch you buy a BlackBerry, buy an app from BlackBerry App World, and not get a refund. And laugh my ass off through it.
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