What is Digg?79 Comments
- wallclimber, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18cerisaac wrote: " The question remains, how will Apple handle growing security threats and customer support as they become more popular?"
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This idea has been so embedded in the public's brains that it may take years of work to erase it. What will be even better is, in a few years when other OSs ARE more prevelant and they HAVEN'T been "attacked" any more than they ever were, people can FINALLY stop believing this piece of marketing nonsense (dare I say; FUD?).
I see a lot of folks these days remarking on the so called arrogance and smugness of Mac users. Don't you think that IF it was so easy to spread malware to Macs, it would have been done already? Hmmmm?
Macs CAN get viruses, and can be insecure. But not to the extent that Windows systems can be (and generally are). Even if a virus GETS on a Mac (or a Linux system), the results are not quite the same as when a Windows PC is infested.
Then there's the whole idea that there always HAS to be one dominant OS. Who says that has to be the way it is???
The truth is, if there were more balance in the numbers, and more variety in the types of systems people use, writing viruses in hopes of massive infestations would be pointless.
If we can just get standard, universal file formats to be accepted and used, then it won't matter what system anyone chooses, they can still exchange files with everyone else. Not hard to see why Microsoft fights standards tooth and nail.
I don't care if there are people who still want to use Windows. I don't want to see MS go out of business. I just want some freedom of choice and a little balance in the world of computers. If that happens - and there are a lot of people working to make it possible, so I believe it WILL happen - then virus writers will have to find another hobby. They can still target Windows because it's so easy, but at least the rest of us who move to something else won't have to be inconvenienced.
With Macs, if you have a program that you don't want, you just drag it to the trash bin. No registry doo-dads to fuss with, no total take-over of the machine.
If Macs, or some distro of Linux SHOULD take over the world like Windows has in the past, it STILL wouldn't result in the same kind of stupid malware and virus problems that Windows has. Patch releases for OTHER systems security problems will likely be pretty swift, because a LOT of people are able to fix things. There's no need to wait until "Patch Tuesday" a month after the problem arises.
I am soooo tired of seeing and hearing the "if other systems get popular they'll have the same problems" nonsense, I could just spit...(ptooey)
:o) - soopafly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16How much lower can it get??? You're not getting a $399 rig from Walmart.
Do your research and you'll find that Macs very competitively priced. - tychop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15The OSx86 project also converted me to macs. I ran it on my company IBM laptop for about a month. Now I have a MacMini & an iMac at home. Once the macbook has it's initial problems solved, and has a greater resolution, I'll buy myself one of those as well......
I bought the mini first but found out I needed more than the intel graphics could provide. Now the mini is getting mounted in my car with a touchscreen - inkswamp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14News is defined as anything that happens that's unusual. Dell being #1 is expected. Apple ranking so high is not. The former is not news. The latter is.
- kamaru, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I purchased an iMac a few weeks ago but I cant seem to bring myself to add windows to it... I still have my old rig for when I wanna game but everything else I wanna do I find I'm able to do in OS X.
- WackyT, on 10/12/2007, -8/+21Yup. Apple allowing the desktop standard operating system, Windows XP, and it's huge base of applications to run on their PCs was one of the smartest moves they could've done.
- OddWeaselBoy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16I do. Of the 9 college bound kids I work with, 7 of them are planning on doing so, and they're by no means geeks or anything. Several of my friends are planning on doing the same. Most of them will probably have to end up having me do it for them as a matter of fact. Kids aren't dumb. Many will see the benefits of the Mac/Windows dual boot. I'm buying my first Mac in September and it will have XP on it as well until I get settled into OSX at which point I plan on ditching Windows entirely.
- Dog_Paddle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13The thing that exposed me to OS X was OSx86 Project. I played with it for about 3 months on my PC, and now I should be buying a new iMac in the next couple of weeks. I'm sure OSx86 Project showed a lot of people how great OS X is, even on incompatible machines.
I found out about OSx86 Project about 4 weeks after I got my first iPod in February. Hmm. - DontSayFanboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I can understand calling a macbook trendy to a certain degree, but let's face it. There is hardly a more versatile laptop on the market right now then the macbook and being fashionable has nothing to do with it. I have a thinkpad right here, and it's a pretty slick machine, but it can't run OS X.
I was a computer science / music double major. I would have loved to have a mac book pro. Switch into linux or solaris for my programming courses. Load up OS X for GarageBand or Logic or Final Cut Pro for my music courses. Get home, and boot into XP for a quick game or two. Damn that would have been nice. - Hawaiianteg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10You cannot apply that argument anymore. Dell's at the same level and comparable without the software, web cam, motion sensing HD's internal blue tooth and wifi comes out a bit more expensive than a Apple. That comparison is old news. Time to find a new excuse.
- SenyorDrew, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12I'm a mac user. But seriously guys. These "linux desktop is ready" and "apple will make major inroads" stories are getting pretty old.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14Just like the iPod...when it first came out...it had decent sales...but now it's the leader
I see Apple's Macs doing the same.
5 years from now Apple will become a major competitor - jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11My friend buying an iBook in 2002 exposed me to the greatness of OS X, except at that time OS 10.2 had very little application support and IE 5 was the main browser.
Once OS X 10.3 launched I knew I had to get a mac, the Mac Mini was my first buy . I still use it as a Media Center but I have done every upgrade aside fro the solder hack to increase the spead by 80mhz. - tychop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9There is also a price diff between apples & oranges....
- SnyderMan32x33, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Although I would have preferred AMD instead of Intel, Apples new computers have leaped forward in compatibility and speed regardless. I currently dual boot w/ XP Prof. and it works better on my iMac then almost any PC I have used in the past.
- kolywater, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8as a cis student, you might be interested to know that UCI's computer science and engineering program recently recommended apple notebooks for all cse graduate students. i have several friends at MIT, GATech and CMU in programs dealign with cse, etc. serious coders are buying macbooks and macbook pros because they offer the best of all worlds.
- WiseWeasel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@tychop: Sorry if it was just a joke, but they have apparently resolved that issue in the latest production runs and will replace the plastic for affected customers...
- cerisaac, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I agree the effect of allowing Windows to play with the Mac hardware is a great idea, I think this will truly play out once Leopard is released. Imagine the possibilities of a Mac platform that simply works with any Mac or Windows software.
- Kelmon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I can't see why people complain about the price of Apple hardware unless they are looking to buy a cheap 'n' cheerful PC. The prices for the hardware is fine, it comes with a boatload of great software out of the box and the OS itself costs peanuts compared to Windows. Where's the problem?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"How much lower can it get??? You're not getting a $399 rig from Walmart."
Exactly thank you for placing a stance on apples price. Im tired of people saying they wouldnt buy a mac soley on the price. So does that mean you wouldnt pay for that 1500 dollar dell either? and for all those people who say I can build one for really cheap, let me just say the majority of the market isnt a geek like you and would think the cd drive when ejected was a cup holder. - Onetrack, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9What kind of zealot stupidity is that MonkeyLives ? Use the OS for a day and you'll see its miles beyond XP.
I just bought a macbook for the wife, a friend got a mini for work and the pc people I know wish there was something else they could have besides windows on their box.
Everything is so rediculously user friendly, things work properly, the os is FAST, has proper memory management and damnit it just works. I have several machines here, typing this on a shuttle frankenstein box and I gotta say I am so incredibly sick of windows, Vista is nothing exciting, many linux distros either feel perpetually in beta stages (kubuntu) or broken completely (Suse).
Forget it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"The Macs have had 21 years to do this. Still has not happened."
Yes it has, read up on your history, at the beggining of Apple tumultuous timeline, Apples inovation or what some would like to say good eye for stealing what others saw as a laughable market made it the leader in the computer hardware/OS market. Notice that they are practically the only computer manafactuere that even survived this long, RIP Commodore64/Amiga/Tandy/etc...With the realease of Apple ][ and the Macintosh they have come along way to pushing the boundries of the computer industry. in 1985 through an internal power struggle Steve Jobs was fired from the same company he co founded 8 years earlier and would go off to develop NeXT which OSX is now based on, and with his departure the decline of the compnay also followed until Steve returned in 97? I believe to slowly rebuild the company he once helmed. I truely believe he will do it again. He has already done it 4 times now 1)making apple a house hold name 2)making mac a household name 3)making pixar the leading animation studio and 4)revolutionzing the way we listen to music via iPod. I think its safe to say that Steve Jobs is making his full circle and will eventually if not at least make a decent dent once again in the Hardware Market - EvilBaby, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13of couse they'll buy a mac and install XP, especially at school where you can usually get XP for free. Macs are pretty and trendy and their laptops aren't really over priced unless of couse you buy a black one.
- Kelmon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@vankho
My opinion on your statement depends on whether you are suggesting that most people will install Windows on their Macs (agree) or whether they will install Windows on the Mac and then use that instead of OS X (snowball's chance in Hell). Once you start using OS X then you won't go back to Windows unless you have no alternative and Parallels Desktop at least means that such trips will be brief (unless you are planning on playing Windows games).
With respect to opening up OS X to other manufacturers, as has been noted many times before, that would be business suicide for Apple. Just look now at Microsoft. Yes, they have made their money from Windows/Office but now they are facing the problem of convincing people to upgrade Windows/Office and needing to look for new revenue streams (XBox, Live, etc). Selling hardware is much more profitable for Apple and much easier to maintain/drive in the future. You might like the idea of being able to run OS X on alternative hardware but Apple isn't dumb and they already have experience of the trouble that this causes from "the clones" in the 90's. - dongiaconia, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8From TFA:
"Dell, however, saw a 14 percent decrease since April of this year. Those looking to buy desktops specifically see Apple at No. 2 with 16 percent of the market, a 10 percent increase since May. Industry watchers believe they are seeing a large rub-off effect from the continued success and praise of Apple's iPod digital media players."
I think its starting to be less about the 'rub-off' effect at this point, and more about the compatibility with Windows--especially since many benchmarks show impressive stats for the Macs running XP. Im guessing a lot of people (including myself) bought a Mac Mini after having an iPod and are becoming interested in investing in a more powerful system from Apple. Then again, I suppose you *could* still count that as part of the extended halo effect. - cerisaac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5As I can see, from your long and poignant comment, you can see the benefit of having Apple fans play devils advocate here in the comments section. It's good questions that need to be brought forth that lead to great answers, discussion and operating systems like OS X.
- CatfishJones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Also, last I checked, Safari wasn't hard-wired into my OS.
- kolywater, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@ mfratt:
your preference for a more 'professional' machine seems to immediately remove you from the 'back-to-school' crowd, which is the focus of this survey/article. students often prefer the "studenty" look as you call it. even if they do want a 'professional' looking notebook, they can get the black macbook.
this idea of what seems professional is pretty interesting: as a phd student in a computer science/engineering department, the aluminum powerbooks/mbp's ARE the mark of professional students. black pc laptops are the mark of those who don't rely on their computers for critical work.
the ability to switch between OS's so easily (as dontsayfanboy pointed out) is vital to today's technology/art students. - BlueFiberOp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Nope, Apple can't be faced with that. Because Apple itself makes its own computers. If other companies were making Mac computers, then yes.
- Vermifax, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Mediocrity will ALWAYS outsell genius. It's the simple truth of our world.
Apple will always innovate and push the PC forward. PC manufactures will always follow and will always attempt to discredit the innovators
I'd love to see Dell, Sony or HP make their own OS. C'mon, let's try that. Imagine Sony coming out with an OS that makes Jobs AND Gates go "Holy *****, now THAT"S how you make an OS!!! What the hell were WE thinkin'!?!?"
C'mon, Dell! You're NO. 1 from conning consumers who don't know any better. Get a software team together and make your own OS. Not happening? Why?
Will Microsoft ever make a PC? They should. They certainly have the cash (again, from years of conning people). Imagine: The Microsoft Thinkbook! It could have the same design aesthetic as the 360 and it would function seamlessly with the new "iPod-Killer". Not happening? OK...
Well, I'm sticking with Apple. They make my preferred hardware solution. They make the OS I would actually use and they make my preferred listening device.
Is Apple the best? I don't know but, Apple is the best for me. Oh, there's one more thing...
There's no friggin' way I'm installing Windows XtraPainful on any of my Macs. I mean .... why go backwards? - kolywater, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5let's take the most unrealistic and inaccurate statistic about the number of people that use macs or os x: 2% isn't 500 people, you know. 2% is still millions and millions of people that use macs. on top of that, the number of people that use os x is much, MUCH higher.
your comment will be buried not by zealots but by the millions and millions of people that use macs or os x. - kolywater, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"That way we don't have to blindly take the risk of investing 2000 dollars in a computer that may or may not satisfy our needs."
$2000? get a mac mini for $600. if you hate os x, install windows and use it as a media box.
"You still have to buy windows plus the mac plus have MacOSX on the drive"
$79 for a windows license. format the drive and remove os x if you like.
"And ok macs run WinXP. Dont overlook the fact that many apps, especially games have enough problems running on PC's with the variety of hardware combos out there, Macs likely to be no exception here."
except that apple provides and updates the hardware drivers for windows. games and other windows applications have problems because people buy *****, cheap hardware with poorly written drivers. mac hardware is strictly controlled by apple, and because apple provides both the hardware and software they can provide reliable drivers. they do not have to worry about surprise hardware configurations with the exception of cheap ram or a cheapy harddrive.
oh and you can run os x on pc's. it's called osx86. - Austovin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Go Apple. =P
- X111, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Personal Computer. So yes, a Mac is a pc.
- leftspin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This is like saying Porches are bad because you have no use for going 175mph on the Autobahn, because you don't live in Germany. Or that cheesecake is necessarily evil because you're allergic to cheese and too fat to see your own toes. Come on, if it doesn't work for you, you ignore it and move on. For those of us who aren't fat and aren't allergic to cheese, I believe a slice of cheesecake might just fit the bill.
For some reason or other, I'm really hungry right now. - danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That is correct this is one of the biggest areas of growth for Apple.
- althe3rduww, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree completely. I have been saying for sometime that the "any dominant os will be just as worse off" comments are just FUD and I am glad to see I am not alone.
This coming from a network security manager ought to mean something to the average joes who wouldn't know the difference between a worm and a trojan but still believe the FUD. - cerisaac, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Even with market pressure and lawsuits pending, Apple looks to be prepared for takeoff. Leopard will propel them to an entire new level or market percentage standing. The question remains, how will Apple handle growing security threats and customer support as they become more popular?
- mfratt, on 10/12/2007, -11/+13@ EvilBaby
I usually use 2 computers. I've had my Thinkpad T43 for a while now, but recently replaced my Mac Mini with a MacBook (meaning I now have 2 laptops instead of a laptop and a desktop). Despite Macs being, as you say "trendy," I leave the MacBook on my desk and cary the T43 to class with me.
1. More durable
2. Better battery life (I have the 9 Cell and Ultrabay Batteries)
3. Nicer screen (I prefer the SXGA 4:3 to the WXGA 16:9, and I also prefer not having a glossy screen)
4. IMO, the Thinkpad's keyboard is better
5. In terms of image, the TP puts out a more professional image, as where the Mac has a studenty image. If I had the money for the MBP that would be different.
Trendy, maybe, but I'll stick with the Thinkpad for daily use. - buzzert, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah, wait for Rev. 2. Shouldn't be long.
Oh and why does everything about Apple being successful on digg have to end with Mac vs PC bickering? - Trojan, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8People are hyping Leopard a bit much. I just don't expect any substantial amount of Windows parallelization on this go around. I would be seriously surprised if that barrier was broken both technologically and license wise so quickly.
But, I am heading to grad school this fall and need a new laptop. There's only once choice, and that's a Macbook. - mancat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2What I find amusing about this article is that HP has a legion of devotees that is equal to that of Apple. I mean, HP?! Come on. The results of this survey really show what type of consumer we're dealing with here.
- tychop, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@WiseWeasel
Cool, I wasn't aware of that yet. - kolywater, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1yay new editing timeouts. ignore that last line about linux. that was a quote from windozwuxmacsux that should have been deleted.
- MacSuxWindozSux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Ok ok here's an extra bit. No more empirical information.
Just add to my views...
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/featured_basdt?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
The Dimension B110 is from what I could see the lowest DELL box.. (which I'll admit ill never touch)
It appears from the information in the page given that it is essentially 299$ (instant rebates) and comes with a keyboard, mouse, and monitor, in addition to the actual computer.
They let you customize the heck out of it... not sure what it's like to get the burner in there.
But still it wouldn't take much to beef this guy up to say... "Premium Ready" levels... (which is a joke in itself) - leftspin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I wonder what % of people truly innovate. I wonder what % of people have the drive to get off their lazy ass and do... anything. 1.8% sounds about right.
Think about it. If you're not in that 1.8%, you're part of the mediocre masses. For people who are part of that club, I suppose a PC running Windows is just fine. - kolywater, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Did you hear me?"
no. i read, quoted, and replied to 3 of your major arguments.
"People arent going to spend extra just to turf it away and use WinXP. They'll just get the 500 bones Dell that comes with an LCD. or the like."
i disagree completely. if someone wants to try os x, a mac mini is $600. the dell you keep mentioning is $500. since you don't have any supporting arguments, i'll stick to anecdotes as well. i know many people that want a media machine anyway (small, portable, stores mp3s, etc) and would be willing to risk $100 to try os x. not everyone needs an lcd. additionally, the mini is attractive, suitable for living rooms, and is small and portable. it comes with IR and a remote. a great media machine that can run os x, windows, or linux for $100 dollars extra.
'You need to Use bootcamp to use WindowsXP"
is that some sort of argument? that's like saying you need to use keys to start your car, so no one will buy a car. hell, you probably use LILO or GRUB when you boot up. bootcamp is the same thing. "using" bootcamp just means installing windows the way you normally do, and then choosing which os to boot at boottime.
"OSx86 has come under legal threat by Apple, so do you homework before you dispute something."
so have pirated mp3s in general, allofmp3, and pirate bay. and, just as people continue and will continue to install osx86, they will download mp3s or movies for free. i'm not condoning this behavior, but people still do it regardless of legal threats. we're not talking about YOU, here, we're talking about the general public.
"I never said getting a mac was a bad idea... just getting one to use winXP is not practical for people when they can do the same with cheaper, equally speedy hardware."
this myth will die soon enough. i don't know when you last checked apple's prices, but you'd be surprised. just take my example. a mini for $600 (core solo) vs $500 for a dell (you never mentioned the specs). what isn't practical is dumping $500 on a cheap, big, ugly dell when you're interested in trying os x. for $100 more you get a super small, quiet, portable media machine that can run windows, linux, or os x, has a remote, etc. put it in your car if you end up not liking it. install windows media center edition. take it to work. hardly a risk at all.
let's not talk about good investments or practicality anymore, because that's EXACTLY what the new macs are.
Meh Linux works on both platforms just fine.. - poxonyou, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was really want to buy a MacBook (OS X Windows XP, good design, thin), but some serious issues remain. I don't know how common these are unfortunately, but they're serious enough that it's keeping me away.
1. There are many reports of the "SuperDrive" scratching discs if the MacBook isn't placed perfectly flat when reading/writing a discs ( http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=502953&tstart=0 ).
2. The "SuperDrive" is apparently a ***** UJ-857, which has many issues (search google) like not letting you change region codes and having trouble reading discs ( http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=501888&tstart=0 ).
3. The drive on the MacBook does not burn DL discs. This is important to me as I'll be traveling far and have backed up my DVDs on to a HDD since I can't take them with me ( http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=484682&tstart=0 ).
4. Expensive warranty option. You have a choice between a free 1 year limited warranty or a $350 3 year overkill warranty. How about some cheaper options?
5. It's not Vista ready. Unfortunately, a lot of companies have decided to use the Intel GMA 950 graphics processor in their thin & light models instead of a real video card. It's not that it can't be done, they used them before. I'd take the shorter battery life. This would also satisfy those who like playing games. Oh well.
It seems like they've addressed the discoloration and mooing/whining problems, so those don't worry me anymore. Let's hope they change DVD writers soon, preferably the new BenQ DL burner. I have one on my PC. It's cheap and I love it. I know the MacBook Pro doesn't have all these issues, but I need a T&L notebook. - Burmask, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1WONDER WHO'S FIRST BIATCHES?
- MacSuxWindozSux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Guy what im saying is for about 500 bones, Dell will throw in a Monitor.
And when time comes that you cant play the game you wanted... 50 bucks on a new video card or some memory and youre good.
Most Macs are like PC Laptops in the upgrade dept. NOT ALL OF THEM.
The dell is ugly. Its crap. But the case can be replaced as can everything else. I simply make mention that Macs are pretty, and dependable, and nice n' all. But theyre not perfect for all situations.
And Using bootcamp isn't a bad thing. Just I wanted to make note that what requirement boot camp has on partitioning or filesystem setup needs to be met, what ever that is.
I AM NOT ARGUING MACS ARE USELESS OR LESS USEFUL FOR MOST PEOPLE.
And taking the extra effort to knock Linux... just makes you seem less open minded. I'm trying to meet you half way here. -
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