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Apple not fighting back against Apple TV hacks--no backdoor

engadget.com — We had a word with Apple yesterday about the Apple TV -- specifically about that supposed backdoor. We asked whether enthusiasts really are in fact having services and hacks shut down through surreptitious software updates and backdoors into the Apple TV, to which Apple let us know that is absolutely not the case.

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  • trekkie, on 10/12/2007, -4/+44As I stated back in the original thread that said apple was hacking your Apple TVs. I called BS then, and I think this confirms it.

    While they're not going to tell you if they do anything that might disable your hack, they're for sure not hacking your TV over the internet.
    • wonderchemist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16Given the fact the username/password pair is so well known, any one could have done it. (Assuming said person was dumb enough to leave AppleTV exposed on the internet with SSH on)
    • crazzyeddie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19And now Apple will sell hundreds of thousands of these devices due to their hackability. Sort of a surprising move considering Steve's control-freak tendencies. I bet Apple's profit margin on these are huge and I would expect to see their stock price jump up after this.
    • schoate09, on 10/12/2007, -21/+5Crazyeddie needs to realize a few geek hacks don't effect the stock market. Now go back into Mommy's basement and come out when you're ready to understand how the real world works.
    • saggygrandma, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22Steve Jobs is not a control freak in this sense, he has always said that Apple is a hardware company, for example he has stated that itunes is just platforms to sell more ipods. The anti DRM deal with EMI reiterates that he wants people to have their freedom.
    • barrymantilope, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Looks like they are actually encouraging it.

      The IFF with help from Apple are preloading content for the film festival:

      http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/04/05/iff/index.php
    • barrymantilope, on 10/12/2007, -9/+8digg me down
    • skellener, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4> Steve Jobs is not a control freak in this sense, he has always said that Apple is a hardware company...

      I beg to differ. Steve is the one who wanted the original Macintosh to NOT be upgradeable. NO SLOTS!! He demanded! I think he has grown since those days. His attitude is much different. Let's see where the AppleTV goes! It's only been what, like 2 weeks?
    • Mothrog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@crazzyeddie

      The same people that would have the knowledge to hack AppleTV probably wouldn't bother with AppleTV in the first place, and instead start out with a cheaper, more capable platform like, say, a MythTV computer. This might help AppleTV sales, but it isn't going to make them fly off the shelves.
    • slickto, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2It's such a piece of *****, the only way they can sell more is to let the hackers fix it. What happened to the Apple "it just works" mind set. What average joe would buy this, knowing they have to gut it to make it do anything useful.
    • goodoldharris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4saggygrandma:
      Jobs "has always said that Apple is a hardware company."

      Apple's margins are more than double those of typical hardware makers. Most of that margin premium comes from the value added through Apple's highly integrated OS and other software (delivered not as copies on CDs, but already integrated into Apple hardware.) Very little of Apple's margin premium comes faster chips or better video cards or prettier boxes or whatever.

      At 2007 Macworld Jobs quoted computer scientist Alan Kay, saying "People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware". In other words, Apple makes its own hardware because it is really serious about software. Not the other way around.
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Silly Apple fanboy marketing:

      "Oh, Oh Apple will sell hundreds of thousands due to it hackability!"

      Hackability? How many consumer devices have ever been sold due to hackability?
      You are talking about a consumer electronic device, not some hacker's toy. If you need to do all of these hacks just to get it up to the level of being useful, just how many normal Joes are going to buy one in it's basic shape when it cant do anything?

      It seriously looks like these "hackers" are moonlighting as Apple marketing. That would explain the breathless articles touting some new hack as a reason for us all to go out and buy one!!!

      When did hackers and modders become corporate whores?
    • fulldecent, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Apple *was* a hardware company.
    • Bootes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The people that consider it to be worthless without hacking are the same people that have the knowledge to hack it.
    • Yoshi39, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"The same people that would have the knowledge to hack AppleTV probably wouldn't bother with AppleTV in the first place, and instead start out with a cheaper, more capable platform like, say, a MythTV computer. This might help AppleTV sales, but it isn't going to make them fly off the shelves."

      No you got it wrong soon the appletv will be a MythTv. Personaly all I'm wating for before buying an appletv is that someone will hack MythTv frontend on to it and being able to install it without having to open the case (already possible I think but the kinks are still being worked on).
    • Mothrog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"No you got it wrong soon the appletv will be a MythTv. Personaly all I'm wating for before buying an appletv is that someone will hack MythTv frontend on to it and being able to install it without having to open the case (already possible I think but the kinks are still being worked on)."

      Uh, or you could just buy cheaper hardware and make a MythTV box. Why the hell would you pay a premium for Apple's prebuilt box, only to make it in to a MythTV box? That makes no sense.
  • jarinudom, on 03/31/2008, -0/+12At the very most, there might be a daily maintenance script running. Funny how people get all paranoid about things like this.

    I wonder if Software Update runs every so often to download the latest security patches though hehe
    • jarinudom, on 03/31/2008, -0/+23Also, unlike game systems (where the manufacturer loses money on the system but makes it up with game licensing fees), Apple is making a profit on the Apple TV. It's actually in their interest for hacks to happen, since it will probably significantly boost unit sales.

      I mean take a look at the WRT54G series of routers for a prime example of this.
    • mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'd agree with the maintenance script. There's probably something to clean up after power failures or other things that go wrong. It doesn't seem to come with any software at all, so I'd guess they have some way of checksumming that the software is correct every so many reboots.
    • theblackgecko, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2True, it is in Apple's interest to have people 'hack' their systems. Yet, Apple was damn slow in getting boot camp so users could run Windows. Likewise, Apple makes installing Linux / Rockbox more difficult with each iteration of the iPod.
    • djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Jargonwhat: two out of the three new-gen consoles use that business model. The third, as the internet meme goes, 'prints money'.
  • tommyleebyron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15I think that Apple tv could spark a new generation of appliances that go beyond its original design. The fact that it does not require a power brick, along with hdmi makes it the most good looking linux appliance ever..
  • deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10That's really cool of Apple to do.

    Anytime I get into one of those horrible Mac vs. PC arguments with someone they eventually say "Apple is just like any other company" and I always respond by saying "No, they're really not" but I guess it's not the type of thing a non-Mac user would understand. No, I'm not naive enough to believe Apple is without its flaws but I really respect a company that doesn't treat me like a criminal (ala Microsoft) It IS my hardware. I WILL do what I want with it. I appreciate Apple not being a jerk about it.
    • merien, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Couldn't this be a smart strategy? In order to succeed the Apple TV has to provide more than just iTunes content. Consumers don't want three of four boxes connected to their TV because some content is exclusive to some platform. They want one box for all content. Maybe it is hard for Apple to openly support DiVX and torrent downloads at the moment. A small number of hackers will now provide the options. For version 2 Apple can say to their content partners: this is what consumers want. The want a system that can play all their content so we have to support even illegally downloaded content.
  • zbeast, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Everyone knows this is what people want a cheap little machine with a remote that can be turned into a killer HTPC.
    Hacking the AppleTV may be a way to get there.
    I don't need another video vending machine in my living room.
    Directv (pay per view movies), xbox360(pay movie, music and game downloads)
    PS3(Pay movie, music and game downloads), Itunes(Pay movie and music downloads)
    gamecube(Pay game downloads)
    How many of these things can you use?

  • RoflMyWaffle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5why would they fight back,its just users adding compatibility and other features, now when it suddenly downloads songs from their store free of charge, then they will fight back.
  • djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Nice to see Apple not going down the same dead-end road Sony has with their PSP. The hackers will always win, so why spend the time and money trying to stop it?
    • Bootes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Because Apple is not selling hardware at a loss. Because this does prevent Apple from gaining profits.
  • sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -11/+8No Apple - "backdoor" jokes yet?? Digg users, today you disappoint me....
    • cubbieco, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4You're only disappointed today? you should read more. Digg is filled with disappointment.
  • onidraky, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Wow, for the first time I have to give Apple alot of credit. In the days of DRM and cheap licensing tactics a company with the "it's your box do with it what you feel" is increasingly rare.
    • Rice, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Yeah... except the iPhone. Closed, bah!
    • djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7That may be at Cingular's request just as much as Apple's - we all know how much they love unlocked phones on their network.
    • Dominatus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6'That may be at Cingular's request just as much as Apple's - we all know how much they love unlocked phones on their network.'

      All the Windows Mobile phones on cingular's network allow the running of third party code.
    • thalassicus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Actually, this might be good news for iPhone users...

      If Cingular won't relent on using your own mp3s as ringtones or allowing skype via wifi (or any other bs carrier lockdown), then Apple can placate them by not including those features in the iPhone. If the phone gets hacked aftermarket and Apple does nothing to prevent this, then the iPhone becomes a better product (more features) while technically meeting carrier terms. I know that Jobs said that he wanted a "controlled environment," but consider that a) he had to say that to placate Cingular who is worried about losing money they don't deserve on features like selling mp3 ringtones and b) Apple could selectively crack down on the hacks that they weren't in favor of. We'll see soon enough since there are probably gonna be hacks galore to deal with come July, but I can't imagine corporate policy being that out of alignment between brands.
  • Feeedbaack, on 10/12/2007, -11/+1The reason they don't care is that they're not taking a loss on that hardware. A lot of companies use their hardware as a loss leader in the hopes of selling content. With Apple thats clearly not the case. Lets look at what you get for $300.

    Pentium Mobile 1ghz
    256mb ram
    40gb HD
    and to top it off a Geforce Go 7300 64mb video card.

    I wouldn't use that POS to play pacman. Just because you can hack it to run a full OS, doesn't mean you should.
    • almalax19, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4You have to add in the cost of the HDMI liscense, custom silicon, etc.

      There still making a killing though. They probably pay like $10-20 bucks for those CPU's that Intel had laying around in a garbage bin somewhere.
    • molochi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Me neither. I once played pacman on a 66MHz i486 with 16MB of RAM and the Ghosts moved so fast you just instantly died. I had the same problem with Diablo when i upgraded it to an x586. It should run more recent games (like most of the ones from THIS century) pretty well however.
    • skellener, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Has anyone figured out if the RAM is upgradeable?
    • elev, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Basically you could buy the same hardware on Ebay in the form of a laptop with a broken screen for less than $100. I bet it would run cooler (not that it matters as long as the ATV is stable), it is obviously very upgradeable, and you can install any HTPC software on it without "hacking" it.
      If I didn't have an XBMC and didn't want one, this is the way I would do it.
      Heck, with the $200 left over you could make a sweet case.
  • DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Part of the reason I am an Apple fan is it listens to its customers. I've had a couple of experiences which have necessitated sending a b*tch letter to Apple and I got my issue resolved quickly. When I had a Micron, the response was "F*ck You". Same with Compaq, same with Dell. Additionally, I've submitted product enhancement requests through the forums Apple provides and lo and behold, the next revision contains the enhancement I wanted.

    If would bet Apple is reading the forums and using the info gleaned to enhance their product. Call me a fanboy, but check out what Apple just did with EMI this week. People rose up, b*tched about DRM, Apple listened, and lobbied a large industry player for its customers. Microsoft didn't do that. Dell didn't do that.
    • Mothrog, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0"I've had a couple of experiences which have necessitated sending a b*tch letter to Apple and I got my issue resolved quickly."

      If that's true, then why did a class action lawsuit have to be filed against Apple to get Apple to fix the battery problems in the first few generations of iPods?
    • ungamedplayer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@Mothrog,

      Easy.. One doesn't cost them money or goodwill, the other does.

  • MPB326, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I haven't heard this mentioned anywhere but I would expect the 30 pin dock connector built into the next gen. version of the Apple TV. I envision the ability for a friend to come over to your house and dock their ipod into your TV. You would then be able to run Apple TV from your friends iPod content (have to convince content producers first).

    Also, I see the next gen. having a dock so that one can connect their iPhone. Having the iPhone connected to the apple TV could provide an endless array of possibilities...
  • robshoy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3An unexpected, but pleasant, surprise from Apple. Thanks.
  • easy4lif, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I can't wait to upgrade my apple TV to 100 GB drive
  • Niallgriff, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant
    • awhiteflame, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've got an original and novel idea! Let's link a Maddox article which is vaguely reminiscent of the topic (but in truth, fairly irrelevant) for the 100th time, to get those last people who haven't yet seen it to finally hate people who keep linking it too.

      Brilliant!
  • OrangeTide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A large hacker community around the Apple TV hardware should be a clue to Apple that the stock capabilities of the device are not up to everyone's standards.

    I don't see why Apple would even care if you hack the device. The hardware is significantly inferior to a Mac Mini, Apple doesn't make and sell a $300 Mac Mini because the hardware would be so low-end that it would not be practical for most of their customers. No sense in adding a product to your lineup that would result in customer confusion. (Apple has had several products in the past that people would look at and go WTH?).

    If you just want to play iTunes videos you paid for on your TV set, it seems you either need an Apple TV or a video iPod. Both are roughly the same price, the aTV happens to have HD out and networking capabilities. the iPod has a bigger disk and is portable. (for those that don't know you can get composite video out of a video iPod with a simple $20 cable, same cable used for video out on the old iBooks)
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