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- natedouglas, on 11/08/2007, -6/+36That's actually a cmd+drag. I know because I do that simple operation several times a day, every day. Over wireless networks based around a rather unpredictable Airport Extreme Base Station (that ran perfectly until I updated its firmware, and now I can't find any old versions). And I've actually lost data to this bug, but assumed I ***** it up instead of Apple...
And if there's a problem with my computer, it should be handled by the ***** who sold me the computer. If my CPU randomly explodes, should I pry it out of the mobo and send it to Intel? If my Bluetooth stops working, should I pry it out of the mobo and send it to Cambridge Silicon Radio, whoever the ***** that is?
No, the reason we pay for Apple computers is because they get to worry about ***** like this. If my battery explodes, if my hard drive dies, if my Bluetooth module starts reanimating the dead, I'm going to blame Apple. - Rahodeb, on 11/08/2007, -3/+30Apple doesn't give a choice of hard drive vendor and they charge a premium for using the "best" components. Therefore, it is an Apple problem.
- natedouglas, on 11/08/2007, -7/+28I checked my wife's MacBook hard drive last night. Bad Seagate version, bad firmware. I'm just glad I saw this and got a chance to upgrade her to Leopard and Time Machine her hard drive.
On the "move" thing, BAD APPLE! Fix it now. That's ***** retarded. - alkimista, on 11/08/2007, -15/+33First the random shutdowns (which apple fixed in a half-assed way) and now this? Damn, I have that Seagate drive model too. Just peachy...or rather Appley
- rudy23, on 11/08/2007, -1/+18when soemone buys and apple product they should care if the problem is with seagate or some other product supplier. as an end user it is the expectation that they take care of these problems for you.
- inactive, on 11/08/2007, -0/+16well dell's laptop battery that were made by sony were blowing up did you give dell the same slack? Stop being a apple sheep. Apple ***** up all the time. deal with it.
- TheFinaleofSeem, on 11/08/2007, -5/+21The move bug sucks and needs to be fixed. The Seagate drives...well, you can't really fault Apple for an OEM drive ***** on Seagate's part.
Now Apple just needs to fix the incessant, unbelievable bugs in Leopard. How the ***** some of this ***** got through is beyond me. Permissions get screwed on archive & install, causing Finder crashes. No real fix outside of some iffy Terminal commands that may or may not help or screw things up worse. Airport stops working. Leopard Server upgrades kill SUS and Netboot on PPC machines. SUS still doesn't work after a clean install and all updates downloaded and enabled. Netboot default image settings get flaky and don't always stick properly. Installer for Leopard wont always see the drive. Reflective dock is a resource whore, even on Intel iMacs with an X1600. It wont pull Apple Partition Map data through Migration Assistant on an Intel Mac. The list goes on. These aren't just obscure little problems that affect three people. Some of these are huge, glaring ***** bugs that should have been squashed early on. I really hope Jobs is eating the faces of the codemonkeys, because after this *****, they deserve it. I love Apple products, but this is really pissing me off. - wewa, on 11/08/2007, -37/+51The only reason I dont buy an Apple, is because of just this.
They have a nasty habit of ignoring major problems (ipod battery, powerbook battery, powermac windtunnel, and more) until they cannot ignore it any longer.
I don't need that kind of POOR support from a company that charges a PREMIUM price, for supposed quality and service.
All Jobs tries to do is to cater to the 'rich and famous' and then use regular folk get screwed in the rear end.
History has proven this to be true...
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2000 ... - natedouglas, on 11/08/2007, -2/+16Kick them in the balls, too. I'll hold them down.
Seriously, I'm a ***** crazy Mac user, but these fanboys piss me off. "Just don't move your files! Just buy another hard drive! Just don't use the wireless! That's what you get for upgrading, duh!" - totorototoro, on 11/08/2007, -2/+15That "move" bug has been around for years - amazing that Apple hasn't bothered to address it yet.
- madvulcan, on 11/08/2007, -1/+14Of course it's Apple's fault! The reason people by branded product is so that if anything happen to the product you blame the company that makes the brand. Does your Macbook's brand have "Apple and Seagate" on it ? No, it only has Apple's brand. From end user point of view this is Apple's fault. If they don't want to take the fault, don't put the brand. If people needs to blame the individual components of computer to its maker, then what's difference is that than building your own box ?
- LnghrnEngineer, on 11/08/2007, -6/+18I thought Macs where just supposed to work?
- jollyholly, on 11/08/2007, -0/+12Thanks for posting this. Turns out my Macbook is at risk for these problems. Time to take pre-emptive action..
- SillyRabbits, on 11/08/2007, -1/+12Those thousands of bloggers are half the problems. When I've had issues with Apple products in the past, I've made the error of posting on some of those forums hoping somebody would help or have a solution. Instead, you get attacked with people that say "Mine doesn't do that, so it must be your imagination" crap. Eventually, when a couple hundred others begin reporting the same thing, they then switch to "Hey, maybe it is an issue, but it's your fault for x reason."
- inactive, on 11/08/2007, -1/+11Be fair. Apple was too busy thinking of new ways to make more money.
- gsadamb, on 11/08/2007, -3/+13Time to blindly defend Apple!
"Clearly, anyone who would try to move their data is at fault. Why would you want to do that in the first place? Apple knows what's best for your data." - TheFinaleofSeem, on 11/08/2007, -2/+11It's not a production server pal, but thanks for playing. I work for a Mac shop, so I get to fix all the ***** that people bring in when Leopard is installed. Believe me, it's not fun in the slightest. Does that make the bugs any less real? Take your snobbery elsewhere.
- natedouglas, on 11/08/2007, -3/+12There was a comment a few up there that said what you just said. It got buried.
I'll repeat myself too: I use that method all the time. Every day, several times a day. And if OS X can't handle a simple MOVE command, something that even ***** DOS 6.22 could handle, then it's time for me to stop using Apple products and start pissing down Steve Jobs' throat.
File management bugs are inex-*****-cusable. - limpits, on 11/08/2007, -1/+10that was beautiful
+1 - sexybobo, on 11/08/2007, -1/+10"Also the issue with Seagate harddrives should be handled by Seagate not Apple, and thats what the manufacture warranty is for, when there is a manufacturing issue."
If Apple sales you a product with a bad hard disk in it. It is apples responsibility to replace it.
From Apple's warranty page
"Apple, as defined below, warrants this Apple-branded hardware product against defects in materials and workmanship under normal use for a period of ONE (1) YEAR from the date of retail purchase by the original end-user purchaser"
So Apple-branded hardware has a defect in materials or workmanship it is their responsibility to fix it. - MacParrot, on 11/08/2007, -0/+8Nicely put. There is absolutely no reason or excuse for Apple to ignore these issues. As so many love to remind Mac users, we pay a premium price and therefore deserve better service. I've never understood why so many Mac users would make excuses for product failures.
- natedouglas, on 11/07/2007, -2/+10You've never once moved a file in twenty years of using a computer? And, as a remedy for a glaring ***** bug in a completely trivial and routine option in file management, you suggest they simply remove the routine option?
I've got news for you, buddy. Deep inside the bowels of your OS, there is a ton of really scary ***** going on. If the OS automatically deleting a file after a copy seems dangerous to you, swap should scare the ***** out of you. - inactive, on 11/08/2007, -0/+8Really, can you tell me where to download it then?
Apple have taken FreeBSD, that was open source (i.e. developed by people that care, given away for free including source code) used it in a commercial product, profited and given nothing back to the community that made the stable OS they hark on about. Leopard is FreeBSD with a pretty face and a hefty price tag.
Maybe if they did actually release their source code, then someone would have fixed this for them already! - 01208500, on 11/08/2007, -1/+9When an OEM tells the equipment manufacturer that there is a problem it is up to the product manufacturer to start the recall. Remember all the flack that Dell got over Sony batteries. It was Dell that was responsible for the recall. All the fanboys blamed Dell not Sony. OEM parts generally are lower priced so that the company that includes them in the machines is responsible for support. So yeah APPLE should support their over priced equipment. That is what we pay extra for. Fix the Damn data loss issue.
- threemagic, on 11/07/2007, -0/+8I agree, it's apple's problem. Seagate's part is the problem and I'm sure Apple will replace these HD's when they fail. Your data is your responsibility. Always has been.. always will be... even if these drives are more faulty then any other. All drives will fail.. it's a fact of computing.
- TheFinaleofSeem, on 11/08/2007, -0/+7Um, no. Some core components are open source, but much of it (such as the Finder) are still very much closed source.
- JimSwarthow, on 11/08/2007, -0/+7yea, that's a real advantage alright.. I pay a premium for the machine only to have it malfunction. but that's okay cuz I can just dedicate the next 2 weeks of my life pouring programming-code looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack and attempt to fix what I already paid for. yea, that sure rules.
- MacParrot, on 11/08/2007, -0/+7Contact Apple and demand a replacement drive to be installed BY Apple. Make noise
- mburk, on 11/08/2007, -1/+8Here's a hypothetical: I'm moving data (yes, people do use the more efficient move command instead of copy/paste/delete) and the power goes out. Your data is gone.
- phoomp, on 11/08/2007, -1/+8Typical ... push Apple's responsibility off to the third party. If Seagate were to handle it, I would expect a 3yr warranty on the drive, not the one year we get from Apple.
Should main-board issues be dealt with by Asus? CPU by Intel? Display issues by Samsung? Enclosure by whoever built the thing in China? Display issues by Samsung? - Matt2k, on 11/08/2007, -0/+7File copy & move operations are pretty fundamental things.
- threemagic, on 11/07/2007, -2/+9Keep waiting... just remember to brush the cobwebs off now and then
- inactive, on 11/08/2007, -4/+11Because, i dont know because they supposedly....... THINK ***** DIFFERENT.
- HappyScrappy, on 11/08/2007, -3/+9Haha. That's hilarious. Having bought computers from Dell and HP, it's no different there. You're lucky if you even find out if there is a problem.
Oh, and building my own? I do that too. Yeah, and then I find out that the Maxtor drive I bought at Fry's (oddly with an Apple logo on the drive sticker) got there because Apple refused to sell it because it has huge adjacent track interference issues.
Your link is hilarious. You're complaining that Apple gave away equipment for free. Pretty funny. - ngmcs8203, on 11/08/2007, -5/+11Sounds like your standard product recall delay. Didn't you learn anything from Fight Club? Companies don't acknowledge faulty products until it will hurt their bottom line. Why should Apple be any different?
- CCmachined, on 11/08/2007, -7/+13next time a mac fan tells me Dells have faulty component issues, ill spit this into their face :)
this is why i continue to use Windows and Linux, i'm not restricted to apple's hardware... acceptable when its expensive but good, not so when there are faulty drives. - koweja, on 11/08/2007, -0/+6How do you know that? Just because copy is the default?
Are you seriously saying that it would never occur to a user to use a move command when they want to move a file? - SuperMoses, on 11/08/2007, -1/+7I'm sorry, I know you're trying to downplay this but that's a major bug. If you're moving large amounts of data from your HDD to an external source and for whatever reason your external source is disconnected (you physically disconnecting it is not the only way this can happen), losing all of that data is critical!
- lickmyback, on 11/07/2007, -1/+7Sane 'move' implementations do this automatically. Only 'dopes' and 'fools' think you should have to explicitly copy and delete data rather than move it. Pull your head out of your arse.
- MacParrot, on 11/08/2007, -0/+6I would agree. I never use the move command, but for Apple to ignore this since 10.3 IS inexcusable. It sounds like it should be a simple (well, simple for the Apple OS X programmers anyway) thing to do. Just fix it Apple. As far as the Seagate drives go, any machine brought to them (and even those that aren't. Apple has the serial numbers of every one of them purchased and email addresses for most of them I would guess) should be repaired or replaced with no questions asked.
- natedouglas, on 11/08/2007, -2/+8You don't see the likes of me attacking Microsoft either. I don't bitch about the Xbox (I have two), Zune (don't care), or Windows (don't care).
Read elsewhere in the thread -- I'm one of the people bitching most violently about Apple. I rarely (if ever) attack Microsoft. I rarely (if ever) attack Linux. I spend most of my time bitching about politics or bitching about Apple. Why? Because, to be honest, I've spent thousands of dollars on Apple products and demand that they provide a good value. Right now, they're not doing that, and so I bitch on here and directly to Apple.
Everyone dug me down but they didn't really give any examples of why I was wrong. Apple is slow to acknowledge these things -- I don't think anyone but an Apple shill would disagree with that. And they do, in my experience, eventually make things right.
Don't interpret that as a "LEAVE APPLE ALONE!!!" statement. It's more of a "stay on their backs and keep bitching" comment. I don't benefit by anyone being meek and buying more Apple products. I do, however, benefit by increased pressure on Apple and improved QA. It's rather logical.
The biggest issue I'm aware of from the OP's post was the windtunnel power macs. Apple sent out replacement power supplies -- that's what I would call making it right. They've had recalls for a lot of batteries and a lot of other things. I don't accuse Apple of being a warm fuzzy... not at all... but they realize that they have a very volatile userbase, and generally end up doing what is needed to put the situation "right."
So please read my other ***** comments before opening your trap, cockmaster. - Sneakernets, on 11/08/2007, -0/+5they do, but you have to sneak up on it when it's not looking.
- TomKarpik, on 11/08/2007, -1/+6What's a "specific, non-default move operation"? There's more than one kind of move?
Stop defending Apple. They can defend themselves by fixing the bug. - McInternet, on 11/08/2007, -2/+7And this is why Apple will never make serious inroads into the corporate space. Love or hate Microsoft, when the ***** really hits the fan with Windows, usually an engineer or two pops up and confirms or at least addresses the issue. It often gets patched, or at least acknowledged and documented somewhere.
Apple's secret policies are a huge turn-off to corporations who live and die by their IT infrastructure. - sholt, on 11/08/2007, -0/+5Not in the Finder they can't.
The core UNIXy OS is open, sure - but all the GUI goodness wapped around it isn't. - RIMberry, on 11/08/2007, -3/+8Return the computer and buy a Dell for half the price with better stats. :(
- luchid, on 11/08/2007, -0/+5"f my Bluetooth module starts reanimating the dead"
You obviously discovered the "Blacktooth" function. Please use it wisely. - natedouglas, on 11/08/2007, -2/+7Why should I not? FFS, it works fine with Linux, a FREE operating system! It works fine with Windows!
Maybe the coders can take off some time from making widgets transparent and reflective to throw some data corruption bugs in, and then I can complain about that, and you'll say "what, you don't md5 your files after you copy them? Doesn't that seem risky?"
Yes, I MOVE FILES FROM ONE HARD DRIVE TO ANOTHER. But that's not all! Sometimes, I really live on the edge and send birthday cards through the mail without delivery confirmation/return receipt requested! - darienphoenix, on 11/08/2007, -0/+5You forgot the Macbook/Macbook Pro whine.
Mine whines all the time when the CPU is idle, and louder when the power is plugged in. Upon calling Apple, I was told it was a known issue, and they they'd fix it. They did - twice. After replacing the motherboard (or logic board if you want to speak Apple) twice, and STILL having the problem, they eventually gave me a brand new system. Great! I thought... until I opened it, and it had the exact same whine, only LOUDER.
Finally, after another month of arguing with Apple techs, they took it in for testing and decided that the whine was 'within spec' after all. 2 months down the drain.
Apple makes great systems, and great software, but their tech support is ****house, and they ignore problems unless you sue them. Not only that, but their 'geniuses' know less than the average Mac user anyway. - koweja, on 11/08/2007, -0/+5Well, in all fairness to the fanboys, you have to see it from their viewpoint. When the only thing you do with your life is go online and babble about how great a company is, data loss isn't a big issue since all of your "work" is stored on remote database servers. So to them, having to put a new hard drive in only means going a little while without being able to jerk off to whatever is on Apple.com's main page.
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