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100 Comments
- fightingirish, on 10/12/2007, -11/+47As much as I love my iPod and my Macbook, I doubt Apple TV's potential for success.
First, Apple TV has limited file compatibility. It can play videos purchased from the iTunes Store. If you have your own files in Xvid or Divx you'll have to transcode. Competitors in the same price range - including the pending Sling Catcher from the guys that made the Slingbox - won't and don't require the extra transcoding step.
Second, as pointed out in an earlier Digg story, a lot of the iTunes video content (like episodes of Lost) are in a fullscreen format. iTunes videos aren't even in high definition. Apple TV, on the other hand, is all about high def - it doesn't even include s-video. Apple's invasion into the high def living room isn't going to be seamless if they are selling standard def, DRM'd, 4:3 aspect ratio files.
Finally, there is no DVR. For the same price as an Apple TV you can buy a TiVo and record for free all the shows you'd be paying for or transcoding into your Apple TV. And with TiVo supporting Amazon unbox service - you can put your movies and TV shows on it soon too.
I really hope there is something up Steve Jobs' sleeve when it comes to Apple TV because right now its patently underwhelming. - threepio, on 10/12/2007, -5/+32I realize it's hip to be down on iTunes, but I find "retarded" as a descriptor to be contrary to my experiences with it. It manages my music, both purchased and ripped. It manages my iPods, my video collection and it ties in well to Front Row. I can control my music from inside World of Warcraft and I can use it at a DJ for parties.
What, exactly, is so bad about iTunes? - Ireland, on 10/12/2007, -8/+30"Of course, Apple is not the first to try to extend Mac/PC content to the living room; in fact, it's five years late. Microsoft's Windows Media Center has been doing this since 2002 with mixed results." The Apple TV is not a "PC" it's more is a streaming box with a pretty interface. NOTE: It's not really the same thing as a media centre PC, as I think Apple understands that normal people don't want a keyboard or mouse next or near their living room coffee table.
"On the other hand, you could say the same for Apple's late entry into the MP3 space. Though MP3 players had been around since 1997, Apple's iconic player didn't arrive until 2002." Don't you mean 2001.
"And at a dinner during the event, Kunitake Ando, then CEO of Sony, emphasized his vision of the TV at the center of the digital living room—with no PC in sight." Exactly with no PC in sight. Next step for Apple Inc. as the new Sony, they will make an actual TV, as in a television with all that the Apple TV has and more built inside, make the hard drive 100GB, and add a slot load DVD player, iTunes iPTV subscrition service and then they'll havr the digital living room owned. They could even go in with other TV manufacturers, so when you buy that Panasonic TV it wont only the HD Ready, but it could be iTunes ready too. - geoken, on 10/12/2007, -11/+31The price would definately hold me back. It has the same functions as similarly priced Xbox 360, except without the ability to play games.
- miles01110, on 10/12/2007, -24/+39The thing holding me back isn't the price (a first for an Apple Product), but the fact that it only works with iTunes. iTunes is retarded. The second a hacker enables divx, I'm sold.
- darthsnoopy, on 10/12/2007, -9/+20@ epilonious
I havent seen these issues on my 360...and I get more format support, plug and play control of devices (mp3 players, portable drives, even an ipod). I also can connect to my vista box and have HD vids streamed back, as well as PVR ability. And its damn pretty.
I see alot of hype around the iTV as 'changing the landscape' but other companies have had solutions available for years, without the limitations of iTunes, and without the price.
Hmmm wierd...I just realized that the same was said abou the ipod when it came out... - firsttube, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15100% agreed. I've been crazy about a lot of apple products in the past, but apple tv is not one of those products by any means. There's just no killer app of apple tv at this point. DRM up the ass, quality of the videos from the iTunes store is lacking. I think they're just releasing this for those people who have a lot of content from the iTunes store, but no way to watch it on their TV. This is just filling a void as opposed to breaking new ground, unless there's something I'm missing.
- NtroP, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I ordered one last month and am waiting for it to arrive. But, I'm not your average user. For one, I can't get TV/Cable at my house. I do have a low-end DSL connection though and a HUGE DVD library (because, no TV :-). I've been slowly ripping my DVDs to my server and organizing them in iTunes since they take up so much physical space in the house and it's becoming a problem. It's also a pain to find the title I'm looking for when *someone* doesn't put them back in the rack where they belong.
I've taken to downloading some TLC and History Channel seasons as well as the usual suspects (Buffy, 24, Heroes, South Park, Diggnation, etc.) from iTMS. I then sync my video iPod up and hook it to my TV so that I can relax while watching a show with my wife. This has worked for the last year or so, but it's a pain in the ass. First, my collection is *way* to big to fit on an iPod and second, I have to get up out of my seat to select the show I want to watch.
The AppleTV is almost exactly what I'm looking for. I can access *all* my content (which, admittedly is already in iPod-compatible format) from any of my computers or even my kids' computers when they come to visit (My daughter brings Colbert Report over from time-to-time). I, personally have no problem spending money on season passes to the shows I like. Yeah, they aren't high-def, but they are good enough from me to enjoy watching the shows, I can watch them on my time, pause them, and there are no commercials. What I can't buy on iTMS or get on DVD in a timely manner I bittorrent (hey, if you want me to buy it, put it on iTunes - I live out in the sticks - deal with it MPAA).
I know that there are other devices out there that I could cobble together to get the same, or even better, results and I'm not beneath doing that (my phone system is an Asterisk box, for instance). But I like how Apple's products "just work". I like the simplicity of purchasing the content and just having it show up on my computer. I hate futzing electronics when I'm trying to relax and watch a show. I have having to be interrupted by my wife when she is trying to get a show to play. I hate having DVDs laying all over the house. I hate trying to explain to my wife how to get the system to change inputs from DVD to iPod, to CD, etc.
Like I said, I'm not your typical user, or even your typical geek, but I think there are quite a few others out there who have purchased a video iPod and have downloaded some TV shows from iTMS who *don't* have a lot of DivX/Xvid movies that they've downloaded. They don't have a PSP or other device they want to play the show on. They won't run into DRM issues because they download it from iTMS, watch it on their computer, their iPod or their TV, with AppleTV. For most people, that will work fine. It works fine for me. I buy the seasons, my daughter comes home from college and copies the show to her laptop - I authorize her laptop - and she has the shows to watch in her dorm room. They only time I've run into problems with DRM is when I've wanted to give a purchased show to a coworker on a DVD, CD or thumb drive and didn't want to authorize them. But, I technically shouldn't be doing that and it doesn't come up very often.
I do not like DRM on principal, but I have to admit, for *me*, I've rarely run up against it. Then again, like I said, I don't have a 3rd party device I'm trying to play the content on. If I did, I'm sure I'd be much more motivated to get my data in a more portable format. I guess, then, that I'm part of the problem. Unfortunately, I think a lot of others are in the same situation and aren't finding Apple's DRM onerous. Thus, there is less impetus for Apple to change it. That sucks. It's a good thing I've never felt the need to play any of my content on my Linux box :-(
I really should just stand up on principal and insist that all my content be in a completely unencumbered format, but ...Ooooh, Shiny...! - epilonious, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11I feel that every initial product from apple is underwhelming compared to its cost. The strategy seems to keep people other than apple faithful or gadget-philes from buying it and passing judgement too quickly. In the meantime the people who did get it will suck up the first-batch problems, blog about their issues, and generally build buzz for what they like. Then, Apple releases what appears to be the perfect revisions about a year later and they are faster/better/cheaper/stronger and due to the fact that everyone has been saying "appleTV" for the prior year suddenly everyone wants one.
- Tourney3p0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Useful products will usually sell themselves. Otherwise, people write articles on the product called "Product X: Why it matters."
- cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9"I doubt the xBox360 will look as nice" Will? What do you mean will? The XBox 360's blades interface is beautiful, easy to navigate and fast. Downloading movies or TV shows is a click away. Easy as can be. One can stream content from one's PC quite easily, I do so on a regular basis. No the XBox 360 doesn't support divx, but TVersity's media server (free) transcodes on the fly, it works great.
I think the contest will come down to content. If one vendor can lock up a good deal more content, the race will end there. - scheming, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@ fightingirsh
You are comparing yourself, who has the knowledge of at least knowing what transcoding is, with your average customer, who actually DOES purchase music and other content through iTMS. I wouldn't be surprised to see AppleTV catch on. I don't know anything extra, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that does have something up there sleeve. - MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"What, exactly, is so bad about iTunes?"
On windows, it looks like something someone new to graphics would throw together in Photoshop. It really has an interface that looks like garbage on Windows. It doesn't even try to fit in. It sticks out, and looks terrible for it. - MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -10/+14"The entire point of the article was that Apple's User Interface will save the day."
They'd have to pull some real magic out of their asses to come up with something with an interface comparable to Windows Media Center. MC has a really sweet interface. - mshea, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think Apple TV is going to make a huge impact, just as the iPod did for the mp3 market. User experience is the key. Designing a single device in both hardware and software that does something unique (not to the Digg crowd but to the grandmas and grandpas) of pay-per-show downloading of the most popular shows.
I'm going to buy one next week and it's going to save me a ton of money. I don't have cable and to get the shows I want, I'd have to pay about $50 a month. In six months, I've paid for the box. Another six months and I've paid for about six seasons worth of my favorite shows.
Apple TV can replace cable TV for me and thats the reason I'm going to get it.
As far as file formats go, most people have no idea what a divx file is. I have a little Mvix thingy that lets me play xvid on my TV and it works for about 70% of the xvid files I have but not the other 30. File formats aren't nearly as important to most people as they are to the digg crowd. Apple isn't putting out a box to play all of those movies you download from bittorrent - they're building a TV interface to iTunes. It's a smart move even if it is, at its core, evil (DRM is the devil).
Casual gaming is another area that might be big. The Apple TV won't compete with your PS3 or Xbox 360 but they may bring games like Sudoku, tetris, or other small casual games to a wider range of players. Think about how big Xbox Live Arcade is - there's no reason Apple can't get into that along with all of the music and video they have as well.
It's going to be an interesting year for Apple. - nixfu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4And unlike AppleTV it does not support HD of any kind because its too weak a hardware.
- awp0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@Ireland
Correct, it's not the same as a media center PC. It is, however, pretty much the same thing as a Media Center Extender. These have also been around for years and they have more features (like PVR functionality).
MCE Extenders have no keyboard/mouse, and they have the same UI as MCE, which is hard to beat. - gregdigg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Can't. Seem. To. Look. Away. From. Tim. Bajarin's. Mustache.
- bblades, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Somebody can come out and write an article "Apple TV: Why it doesn't mean jack"
Its an overpriced Airtunes with video for 3 bills... end of article. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5It doesn't.
- totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Tim Bajarin? He's one step below Rob Enderle on the "useless tech. analysts" list.
- MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Indeed, the media center UI is pretty slick. And with virtually every copy of Vista coming with Media Center, it's going to be that much more appealing. And several second generation Media Center extenders are due out this year. (The 360 is a 2nd gen media center extender, the only one right now, but new ones are coming soon!)
- KibibyteBrain, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5As much as I like XBMC, a gray area, hacked product with user modified hardware cannot be considered competition in the "consumer electronics" sector. I don't understand why XBMC is touted against the appleTV so much. Especially because the XBox360's live service DOES offer some real competition to what Apple is trying to do, and arguably does it slightly better at this time.
- wilhoitm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3A good question to ask is would you girlfriend setup a MythTV versus would your girfriend setup an Apple TV?
It is going to sell like hotcakes! - miniboss, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I really love the simplicity of Apple's menu system. But like so many others the Price and Compatibility are what is keeping me away. $300 is the just too close to the cost of an XBox 260 or even a MacMini/Macbook (refurb) which can all do so much more in terms of features and codec compatibility. Plus, the idea of a Media Center that doesnt have a DVD player is a bit odd because if I were to eat up a port on my TV with a streaming video device then I'd want to to replace my DVD player too.
- wilhoitm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I think it is so hilarious that a lot of you guys are so jealous of the AppleTV product, you are treating AppleTV as if it is the new well dressed guy on the block that is doing up your girlfriend!
- scarface74, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"What's wrong with iTunes"
The Macintosh version is basically flawless but since they added CoverFlow the Windows version has been buggy and noticably slower. - cthellis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@leonbev
Which, technically, only means you're locked into converting whatever the heck you want to an iTunes compatible format, which you probably already do to put them ON an iPod. ;-) - mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2bingo!
IF they can get the streamed TV shows from ABC, CW, FOX, etc that they already show for free online my wife will be first in line. - bradleyland, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Another thing holding the AppleTV (or any media extender) back is the lack of ability for users to rip their existing DVD libraries to their PC. One of the big selling points of the iPod+iTunes is that it is *dead easy* to rip your music to your computer. Your Average Joe™ doesn't even care what format it's in, so long as he/she can get all their existing music library into their computer and easily accessible on their iPod.
I'm a small time IT consultant, and I get this question all the time. "Can I rip my DVDs to my computer and play them on my TV?" There are apps that will rip them, but none of them are as easy as iTunes handles ripping CDs. - pheen, on 10/12/2007, -9/+11If quicktime can play it, the AppleTV should be able to play it. So install the codecs and watch DIVX/XVID on it... works with FrontRow
- giddytonk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Maybe this war is also about content. I wonder what the movie selection is like between XboxLive Marketplace and AppleTV.
- warchant, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6i just modded my old xbox and use it exclusively to watch downloaded tv shows...it supports more file types and i don't have to purchase any new hardware
- archer75, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3And with apple tv you won't be watching your xvid's. It only supports one video formet and two audio formats.
Or use a slingbox and support all formats. For cheaper too. - bannonto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Please go to work for Apple, and produce this T.V.
- drake77, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Yeah, but why can't they make one that will allow you to rent movies via download?
- deadlock, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'll tell you what's wrong with using the XBox 360 as a media extender, the one small, fundamental flaw, the fly in the ointment, the minor oversight that became the universal show-stopper: you can't pick up where you left off. How stupid and retarded is that? Didn't it ever occur to anyone in Microsoft that people might not want or be able to watch a whole movie in one go? Of course, it doesn't help that there's no system for 'scrubbing' through a video either - you have to use the fast-forward functions. I thought we left that crap behind when we adopted DVD. My *ipod* has a more elegant interface for video playback from that point of view.
- N1XUK, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I'll stick with my iPod 5g for watching on my SD TV
- mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1they should leave games to Wii!!!
Of course I'd like to see an Apple/Nintendo partnership anyway... iTunes on DS would be really cool as well as iTunes on Wii. Wii doesn't have the guts for HD so it's no competition to Apple... but it has wireless and uses memory cards.... - mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Apple doesn't want rented content... they don't want to play that game. Microsoft is perfectly happy to play sales games with other people's computers and that's becomming more apparent. Apple's DRM is just enough to get the content on the platform and keep the lawyers off THEIR backs. That's why [apple]TV is setup as an extender and not a platform.. they want to let customers keep the files they download. Versus Xbox live where they download ONLY to the Xbox with a pathetic 20GB drive and are time/views/locked so you can't actually move them or keep them.
You have to realize this is Apple's almost civil DRM versus Microsoft's total control DRM... Microsoft has the DRM the media moguls want.. Apple has the sales of hardware. It's a lesser of two evils thing. - McoreD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The product name is Apple TV ffs. If they don't even include a TV Tuner in it, I am very less interested in this.
- pixelbender, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It seems Apple is always ahead of their time. Newton, anyone? The iPhone and Apple TV may not be the best or win the most marketshare, but all us techs should be greatful that someone took that step in the right direction.
Newton -> PDA -> Smartphone -> iPhone
The Lion King was right, it is the circle of life! - happy2k, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2!It took me only a few hours to setup the media center with the HD tuners installed. Windows Vista media is very easy to setup and much improved from XP version. There is not much tinkering at all. Once everything works on the media center box, throw it in the garage with network and antenna connections. I have a 300 GB drive in it and everything is stored there - photos, MP3, videos and media center recorded content. I have Directv DVR already but it does not have local channel in HD. So the Media Center records all the local HD channels. Trust me, the new Vista Media Center interface is sweet and easy to use. The best thing is that the channel guide has no subscription fee. Of course, this solution only works if you have a Media Center Extender like an Xbox 360.
- jwdav, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4This thread is a great example of why something like Apple TV is needed.
Lots of people commenting about their favorite geeky toy - whether it's Myth TV, TiVo, XBMC, SlingCatcher, Computers & Media Extenders etc ... not to mention all kinds of marginal proprietary file formats. I enjoy fooling around with these devices as a hobby, but none of them, excepting the TiVo, are anywhere near ready for the mass market - and even TiVo struggled to get the masses to understand what it was.
It's a mess that is crying out to be cleaned up, and that is what Apple is good at.
I have iPods, Mac's, TiVo's and an XBMC and often grab xvid torrents and am getting really tired of all the trans coding and would like to see far better interoperability between devices and far fewer file formats. - goosnargh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They do... e.g Lost.S03E09.720p.HDTV.x264-CTU
Why are you talking about video being portable? Last time I checked a TV + Apple TV wouldn't be portable. Chances are you'd be transcoding videos for portable players anyway (since they have limited resolution & H.264 profile support). - zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Nobody wants to download!
I got access to all the game trailers etc but I don't want to download. I want them to be streamed!
I do have DirecTivo but I don't mind it if it going to record Beyond Beats and Rymes on PBS Independent Leans next week but on xbox I expect it stream it. - clackerd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3i dont believe in punctuation either that is why my predictions always come true what you dont believe me
- yaro83, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'll wait for a device that can go both ways. For now we have either SlingBox - to watch TV on the computer screen - or AppleTV (and SlingCatcher) - to do the opposite. Why do I have to have two boxes for what should be complementary functions? Isn't this supposed to be Apple's forte: simplifying use, removing unneeded clutter, and integration?
- giddytonk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I sure wish they would offer movie ***rentals***. I'd buy one if the movie selection was great.
I dream of the day when I can rent any movie I want, and download it immediately. Not more rental stores or mailboxes. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Interesting how this article made it to the front page, as much as people dislike Apple TV, and this article itself.
Hmmmmm. -
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