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115 Comments
- HalBSure, on 10/12/2007, -7/+123I had the same problem. The drive in my flat-panel (lampshade) iMac died so I eventually took it in for service but I wanted to keep the bad drive for safety's sake. It was still under warranty but they said that they would keep the drive when they did the repair.
I said I would pay for the repair, they said they would still keep the drive.
I said I would supply the drive and pay them to just swap it out for me, they said they would still keep the drive.
I said I downloaded the repair manuals and I would just do it myself then. They said "You're not supposed to have those"
I said bye-bye. - trghpy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+69Dell earned my respect a couple years ago when they offered the "you keep the disk" plan.
For like 20 bucks, when ever a hard drive fails you keep the broken one and dell sends out replacements.
When my macbook's hard drive failed I took it into work and put it into the tape degauzer hoping it'd whipe everything out. - Junkyarddawg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+31Free tip: Never, ever, send in a computer with sensitive data on it for repair. Remove the harddisk before handing in the computer. If it's the harddisk itself that's broken, destroy it utterly and take the loss.
- huggybarrel, on 10/12/2007, -5/+30Weird. My girlfriends Mom, whose iMac's hard drive died, they gave her a replacement drive to install herself because she wanted to keep the not working drive to get the data off. They told her that if they did the work, they'd keep the old drive, but if she wanted to keep the old drive, they'd just give her a replacement. (This was at an Apple store, not over the phone support).
- Gatesophile, on 10/12/2007, -12/+37That's an incredible security risk for everybody getting their stuff repaired. I can't believe that this is their policy. Horrible.
- geodescent, on 10/12/2007, -24/+42How else will they steal design ideas?
- wonderchemist, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19You can always turn on FileVault
- PLUMCRAZY, on 10/12/2007, -6/+21So, you send your laptop in for repair without the hard-drive.
The repairman takes the computer out of the box, plugs it in and immediately says
Well; there's your problem . . .
That'll be $300.00 please - JimV, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16WTF do you guys store on your computers?
- Charlotte_Web, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13"Careful, the RIAA will be onto you if you keep downloading repair manuals."
I think you mean the RMIAA -- the Repair Manual Industry Association of America. - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13I'm not sure I understand the problem.
Let's say your hard drive is dying but not 100% dead. Can't you just backup the data, erase the disk, and send it in for service?
Let's say your hard drive is 100% belly up dead. Who cares if you get it back? If someone at Apple wants to take apart your old HD, move the spindles to another drive (in a clean room) and steal your data then you know what? More power to them. They deserve to have my data (enjoy my mp3 collection guys, it's great)
Let's say you have an unrelated problem (logic board, display, etc) can't you just pop out the drive, backup the data, and erase the drive? - arkhangel78, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11You're absolutely correct. Apple is not a hard drive manufacturer. They purchase their parts from other companies like everyone else. And guess what, those parts have warranties too. If the drive fails, Apple can turn that drive back in to Toshiba (or whomever) and get a credit for the part. It's just like the consumer warranty but between part vendors and the manufacturer. I'm sure Dell has the exact same type of setup.
Also, for those posting above about the privacy policy and complaining about the warranty... it's all available on Apple's website: http://www.apple.com/legal
The warranty also clearly states: "When a product or part is exchanged, any replacement item becomes your property and the replaced item becomes Apple's property." It's not like it's a hidden fact. As well, in talking to their Customer Relations agents, I've been advised before that the drives are actually 'zeroed' out and wiped before actually leaving the repair facilities. Don't know for sure, but this is what they tell you about it if you just ask. - isdereks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I dealt with this same issue when I had my MacBook replaced with a completely new unit. I requested, even offering to pay for shipping, for my old drive. My normal practice now is to wipe the disk clean cloning it to an external whenever a machine has to go in for repair.
- Roger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11This is why I use floppy's.
(They never go bad) - jasonjday, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10First off, I would completely disagree with why Apple keeps the drive. Repair centers like Apple and Best Buy send the broken drive back to the parts warehouse to control inventory. It proves that the good drive was swapped for an old drive. It keeps dishonest tech from building their own machine one part at a time or having a side repair job with parts that come at a five finger discount. If you really think about this, it is a smart practice for the company.
Secondly, if you are that concerned about your data then do two things; back-up and encrypt your data.
It isn't hard to back your stuff up. Software comes with .Mac or if you don't want .Mac (or have a PC) then get a third party software package to help you. Heck, if you watch digg much then you would have come across this story (http://digg.com/apple/Geek_to_Live_Complete_free_Mac_backup) just the other day on the front page.
Encryption is cake on the Mac. Just enable FileVault and no one is going to get your stuff off of your drive. I am sure that for free or a small fee that there are just as strong of options for the PC. - fuzzmeister, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9@schoate
You know, if anything, threatening to sue would make them less likely to help you? They are a multibillion dollar company with an enormous legal team, do you think they would actually be scared of you? - AaronD12, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9You are warned by the Apple technicians to back up your hard drive. There is no story here. Move along.
- easy4lif, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8thats why I replace my drives myself.
- IAmRoot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I do the same thing. I had my hard drive go bad on my laptop. I stuck what I wanted on dvds, popped the drive into a external enclosure, plugged it into my Gentoo system, and executed 'shred /dev/sda'. If the drive won't even do that, a powerful magnet should do the trick.
- HalBSure, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9@dilbertmouse - I understand!! It was meant as a stylistic "joke". Mostly an in-joke with myself because I caught myself using two "I said"s when writing it. Heck, I just realized that I screwed up by splitting the next to last line into two sentences. Damn.
- nevenmrgan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+101. Remove or encrypt anything sensitive before handing your hard drive to any stranger.
2. This is not standard Apple policy as many people are able to get their old hard drives back from Apple.
3. They tell you ahead of time not to expect to get your data back even with minor repairs (though usually the HDD will be fine).
4. Most repairs of this caliber are done off-site and tracking and shipping a particular HDD is a pain.
5. Don't believe anybody's story of dealing with any business; it's most likely exaggerated, embellished, and tweaked. - waterboy1628, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6If you can't recover your data, and Apple can't recover your data, why do you need your old broken hard drive back?
- orbanj, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10This literally just happened to me. I got my computer back, with a SMALLER DRIVE too (obviously without my data).
- Gatesophile, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I think they meant that it's standard practice for Apple.
- Netrilix, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Agreed 100%. Last time I sent my Dell for repair, I mentioned the hard drive. They told me I could keep it if I wanted, so I sent in the laptop without the hard drive, feeling a lot better than if I had to send it in.
- timsit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I am an Apple service tech and ANY part you have replaced under warranty must be sent back to Apple. If I don't send it back Apple charges the service provider a core charge.
- ab2650, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Maybe I just don't "get it," or maybe the consumerist is going just a LITTLE overboard here. I mean what REALLY is the big deal here? So they're not allowing you to have two hard drives? Is it somehow unacceptable that part of their warranty requires you to return to their possession the broken equipment?
If the submitter (to the consumerist) had the ability to collect his data from the drive, he could have, and should have, done so before even bringing it in to apple -- doing so would unlikely void any warranty. Voila, problem solved, and in one trip no less!
If it's data theft he's worried about, maybe I would be a little more sympathetic, but that claim is hardly made. It just seems to be whining to the choir about how some company would let some Pete Pocket-protector have 2 drives.
I'm also a little tired of seeing these consumerist articles that apparently expose the ugly underbelly of any retailer. It's getting old; but that's a whole 'nother post. - erictheninja, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10@schoate
With an attitude like that, it's completely understandable why your experiences with Apple were so bad. I've been working with Apple and Macs since 1985 and have never had any warranty problems. In fact, Apple's gone above and beyond in replacing some of the dumbest things that've happened (read: a wet shirt thrown on an old G3 CRT monitor, replacing an iPod w/water damage b/c they messed up and told me the iPod was fine). - thomas, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10If the hard drive is broken and they can't fix it why would you want it back...
- scratt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6This story is a) stupid, b) a non story.
They *did* let him have his drive back when he could either attempt to restore data, and erase the drive.
They simply would not let him have both physical objects. I am guessing probably because of tax implications and accounting procedures.
In other words the title of the article is misleading, and Apple have been more then helpful.
Personally I would have backed-up / deleted my drive before I gave it to Apple to replace. - cawpin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@orbanj - Please tell me you didn't settle for that.
- trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5In all fairness this is all clearly told to you in the document you signed but didn't read when you sent your laptop in, lucky for you though, it's also standard procedure to warn the customer in person to have any personal / important data backed up / wiped.
- Filter, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The manufacturers feel that it is your responsibility to back the data up. I think Apple should be a little more flexible. I've seen smaller computer manufacturers be more flexible.
- RYZ3Rwitha3, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9My friend has an iBook with applecare. Her hard drive went faulty so she took it to a local applestore. They said she needed a new drive and installed it and transferred all of her old data over for her in store.
- fanboydcs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5this is because your giving them your machine to get repaired, they are not responsible for your data, and they are also sending that drive back to get warranty service from, seagate, wd, maxtor, toshiba, etc....
Also they have no way of selling their service parts. They can't sell their logicboards or internal componets, and a harddrive is no exception. - troyallen069, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I don't see the big deal here. Once they have you old drive they can copy whatever is on it in the first place, even if they give it back or not. Most drive companies tell you to back and they don't give you back your data.
http://www.lacie.com/us/support/faq/faq.htm?faqid=10025 - mgrucker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4fta: "There is, functionally, no difference for Apple if I get my warranty drive and take my old hard drive *full of my personal data* or not. In fact, I save them the trouble of disposing of it."
umm, yeah there is a difference. If they give you a new drive AND your old one then they are out a drive. If they keep the old one they send it to the manufacturer and get it replaced. What kind of tool thinks that they just throw it away? - northernmunky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Just to try and add a bit of reasoning to why they keep the hard drives... I used to work for a big company thats contracted to do the support and repairs for many PC manufacturers like Packard Bell, HP, Emachines, Sony etc.. for both the manufacturers and extended warranties (extended warranty conducted entirely through us).
Basically, when one of our engineers replaced a hard drive in a manufacturs warranty situation, the hard drive gets swapped with a new one and the old one no longer belongs to the customer, it doesnt even belong to the PC maker (or Apple in this case), it belongs to Fujitzu/Samsung/Western Digital or whoever made the drive in the first place so they can dispose of or analyze what went wrong with it and Apple will claim back from them. The alternative was the customer could buy the drive at the purchase price which usually was OEM and not very much.
In an extended warranty the manufacturers responsibility ends and so when we swapped a hard drive, we were able to give it to them at no charge. So, if your machine is less than 1 year old, Applecare means nothing anyway and Apple are REQUIRED to keep the drive regardless. After that (ie an Applecare repair) the drive manufacturer doesnt care what you do with it and apple should be free to let you have it at no charge.
Also, no computer maker or store will EVER accept responsibility for your data. - serpicolugnut, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I've sent a few machines in for repair to Apple over the years, and the process is clearly stated on the box that you send the machine back in. BACK UP YOUR STUFF. Apple won't do it for you, and if necessary, you may get a new hard drive in the repair.
I value my data on my machine, so before I sent the Mac back, I BACKED UP MY STUFF. If I was worried about my data being stolen, I would have mirrored my drive, and then wiped it with the zero data out option before I sent it back to them.
Look before you leap children. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I've sent a laptop back to a smaller computer company (MPC) for a board replacement, they told me to remove the drive before i sent the laptop back, so they didn't ever have to deal with the data.
- TravisL, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It is called back up. If you don't back up your stuff, that is your fault, NOT Apple's.
- jads, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It's not Apple's responsibility for data recovery. In fact it's technically against policy for them to try so if a technician/genius has given it a go then they are doing so as they sympathize with the customer. They don't *have* to try and recover the data. If you've lost it when the drive fails it's your own fault. It's tough I know, but Apple nor any other company can be responsible for the data of the customer.
- jads, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Put yourself in this scenario...
You're a hard drive manufacturer (for example, XYZ) and sell your products to ABC computer company. ABC uses the drives in their computers and sells them to a customer. A customer uses the machine but somewhere down the line the drive fails. Customer then takes the drive to ABC for repair. ABC needs to then take the drive off the customer so XYZ will replace the one they used in the repair. Otherwise this happens...
ABC - "Yeah this is ABC, we've got another drive of yours that's failed..."
XYZ - "Oh that's too bad. Ok, send the drive to us and we'll replace it for you."
ABC - "We haven't got the drive, the customer kept it."
XYZ - "Right... so you want us to replace the drive that you claim is faulty without actually seeing the drive..."
ABC - "Errr...yeah".
XYZ - "No chance. Good Bye"
Think about it. - osbjmg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4st0n3 - Even mac users are smart enough (usually) to replace their drives, but there's that whole warranty thing. Your friend at the mall has a few valid points, but he is just being told what his ARM (assistant to the regional manager) has regurgitated to him.
- TheHouch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3it says it right in the warranty:
http://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/hardware.html
"Parts provided by Apple in fulfillment of its warranty obligation must be used in products for which warranty service is claimed. When a refund is given, the product for which the refund is provided must be returned to Apple and becomes Apple's property."
"If your product is capable of storing data or software programs, you should make periodic backup copies of the data and programs contained on the product's hard drive or other storage media to protect your data and as a precaution against possible operational failures. Before you deliver your product for warranty service it is your responsibility to keep a separate backup copy of the system software, application software and data, and disable any security passwords."
digging down as lame - ST0N3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5you have nothing to worry about. a friend of mine works for apple, and i asked him why they do this, and he said it's because it's loss prevention, to keep employees from taking it, they send it back.
In order to get another part back in stock, the original part (the dead drive) must be sent back in order for the system to spit out a new one and ship to their store.
But if you're not smart enough to know how to switch out a hard drive on your own, you're not smart enough to understand why this is the lesser of all evils. - girlbunny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3osbjmg,
Then you're lucky IMO. I've had both Apple laptops and non-Apple laptops. The only laptop I've had which hasn't been sent back to be repaired was one of the Apple laptops. One non-Apple laptop (Asus) went back multiple times, and the official service providers ended up putting a hole in the motherboard (which they never fixed, BTW) with a bad soldering job. The one Apple laptop that was sent back for repair also had to deal with shoddy service providers. Once the machine was out of warranty, I found it easier and less stressful to just take it apart myself and fix the problems that way... admittedly, all of the subsequent problems with that machine was because of the shoddy repair jobs done by the service providers.
I have found that where I am now, there are good and bad service providers for repairing the Macs - now that I have a choice in where I go, I've not had problems with subsequent machines. Desktop PC's I've never yet found a good service provider, and prefer to fix myself - shorter down time, and generally a better job overall.
That's my own experience anyway. - jads, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Add to this, manufacturers need to know what caused a product to fail so they can make sure future products don't have the same flaws. How do you think recall schemes happen? Because a company receives a flood of complaints and faulty products - not just word of mouth.
- r00kie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The sad part is that this is a technoloy news site and people have no idea to back their data up.
-My Computer Science Teacher in High School used to always say that the 5 most said words in this industry are "Did you back it up?"
-"Death, Taxes and Data loss" the only three things you can rely on. -College CS Professor.
Grow up and learn folks. External HDs and DVDs are your only hope. - MikeOSX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It is suicide to not have frequently updated backups.
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