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Apple Imperfect
bits.blogs.nytimes.com — A botched launch of MobileMe — the company’s new data-syncing service — has led Apple to make repeated offers of free services to frustrated customers. And there have been teething problems for its generally well-received 3G iPhone, including flaky reception and weak battery life.
numberneal- 771 diggs
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- SlavaPastuk, on 08/27/2008, -9/+58Duh?
- tdmeth, on 08/28/2008, -19/+8It shows how fanboyish the apple community has become when people start writing articles like this.
- vat0r, on 08/28/2008, -3/+20Verb, noun, apple...front page.
- robogobo, on 08/28/2008, -1/+4minus the verb and noun, plus an adjective I guess. You really have it figured out.
- Niightwitch, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1you mean....noun, adjective, apple
- vat0r, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2twas a figure of speech..
- duckley, on 08/28/2008, -8/+2Come on!
If all companies were even HALF as good as Apple, we'd be singing.- phoomp, on 08/28/2008, -2/+6You mean, if, like Apple, all companies could *convince* us they were so good, we'd be singing.
- copyland, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2i've been an apple guy for almost 10 years. let me tell you, sometimes apple really really sucks. They've had a history of releasing stuff before they get it working reliably. iWeb, iMovie, iPhoto,...just read the forums on the apple site about these programs. Apple is cute, but not cool. Final Cut Pro is the only essential. If someone gave me a copy of Adobe Premier I'd go back to PC and pocket the 50% premium.
- edstate, on 08/27/2008, -22/+5And let's not forget the iLife '08 debacle, and Leopard is STILL pretty buggy.
That aside, they're still the best game in town.- JEWestbrookJR, on 08/27/2008, -7/+12Really?
Leopard hasn't had major bug issues since the beginning of the year. I use it every day on 3 different machines and since the first leopard update none of them have crashed on me and have only needed reset for updates.
and what is the iLife '08 debacle you speak of? No problems here...- edstate, on 08/28/2008, -13/+4Um... spaces still doesn't work. If you use Aperture you can't use photos from iPhoto for your desktop background. Spaces sucks, even though it should be great. Etc. Etc. And the iLife debacle was essentially a very minor upgrade of everything except iPhoto, and a severe downgrade for iMovie. You might want to read some, you know, before you post?
- btschul, on 08/28/2008, -4/+11edstate: You mentioned spaces twice and there isn't even a problem with it. And when the inability to set pictures from a certain app is your biggest bug, you are doing pretty well. I will give you the part about iMovie, however. Luckily, there is a free version of iMovie HD (v 6) available on the Apple website.
- MrChunks, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5What doesn't work in spaces?
- MacParrot, on 08/28/2008, -5/+5No. no. He means Spaces does work for HIM (apparently twice) so it obviously doesn't work for anyone.
If you're stretching THAT hard to find fault with Apple, you really don't have much to complain about. A real actual documented problem with Leopard with WiFi with G5 iMacs. THERE! NOW you have something legit issue to complain about - Rysac1, on 08/28/2008, -4/+2I run Vista on 3 machines and have never had a crash. Only had to restart for updates. So, by your logic Vista is just as good as Leopard.
- iericg, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5I've recently purchased a MacBook with in the past two week. To my surprise Leopard has crashed on me five times. The main issue has been opening Firefox and the program not fully loading which leads it stuck in limbo. I can't open it, close it, or force quit it. The only solution is to restart my machine. I never had this issue with Tiger...
From what I've read Snow Leopard is suppose to be a more refined & optimized version of Leopard.- btschul, on 08/28/2008, -2/+3Try running system update and making sure you have the latest version of leopard (10.5.4) and the latest version of firefox (3.0.1). If that doesn't work, I would say back up your data and do a system restore using the mac osx discs that came with the computer.
- mrsteveman1, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5So the OS doesn't crash or panic but Firefox locks up?
- iericg, on 08/29/2008, -0/+1Sort of... it's still the OS because the same issue happened when trying to open Mail. One thing I did not mention is that I use Spotlight to open up everything. On Tiger I used Quicksilver but did not see a need for it on Leopard.
Another issue I have with Spotlight is some times when I hook up my external drive it takes over 30 minutes for Spotlight to index it. In the mean time I can't use it at all. The weird thing is that it randomly happens.
- cthellis, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5"Spaces doesn't work (like I want it to)."
It works fine. It just could be better.
iMovie isn't really a "downgrade" but a "sidegrade" and a bit of a separation from FCP. On the whole, it works a bit better for amateurs, which is who the iLife tools are supposed to be aimed at.- btschul, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3And if you don't like iMovie 7 (the "sidegrade"), iMovie HD (v6) is available as a free download from Apple's website.
- cthellis, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2Of course that still plays into the complain, though, since it seems to be a "debacle" that the rest of the iLife programs "didn't get much of an upgrade." Getting the old version wouldn't be an upgrade at all! 8-Þ
- JEWestbrookJR, on 08/27/2008, -7/+12Really?
- Kamujin, on 08/28/2008, -21/+12He forgot to mention the pile of dog poo that Apple called OS 9. I can still remember my mac zealot friends telling me that pre-emptive multi-tasking was a fad.
- digitallysick, on 08/28/2008, -9/+15I never had an issue with os9??? i still think its a good os
- DeathJux, on 08/28/2008, -2/+3Word. OS X *still* can't touch the snappiness of OS 9, plus you could boot and run your machine off the OS disc.
It only sucked when you had problems with extensions and the like... that was a nightmare. - MacParrot, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5OS 9 was a crashfest. Sorry guys, but I've been using Macs since System 6.04 and outside of 7.5, OS 9 gave me more problems than anything else in a variety of programs. It was very frustrating to be editing video with Strata's VideoShop, be almost done and then have the OS die and the screen lock. Hours of encoding wasted. I'm much happier with OS X
- DeathJux, on 08/28/2008, -2/+3Word. OS X *still* can't touch the snappiness of OS 9, plus you could boot and run your machine off the OS disc.
- RgyaGramShad, on 08/28/2008, -3/+6it may suck compared to what we have now, but it was good compared to everything else back in the day…
even with all the unexpected quitting, crashing, and freezing…
i still have nightmares about that dialogue with the bomb on it…- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3Right on.
- broodking, on 08/28/2008, -7/+3mac os 9 was a killer of a of a mac os
i mean it rly
it was *****
force quit woudnt work but just kill ur machine(hence why it had a bomb logo)
it looked *****
and was unstable as hell- Tenlow, on 08/28/2008, -1/+4As a comment, you failed pretty goddamn hard. But as poetry, it's pretty good. I bet you could get a record deal if you did a spoken word version of that set to a good beat.
- MacParrot, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4You could probably sell it to Eminem
- javaroast, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2Thanks for the laugh. I heard the same comments back in the day. The most hilarious part of the post is the same guys digging you down today would have been telling you that back then.
- digitallysick, on 08/28/2008, -9/+15I never had an issue with os9??? i still think its a good os
- WHOOMP, on 08/28/2008, -27/+3looks like this "apple" really does has a worm in it LOL
***** you guys btw- RgyaGramShad, on 08/28/2008, -1/+12after reading your comment history, i have blocked you for the following reason: excessive stupidity.
go back to youtube.- Rikkochet, on 08/28/2008, -0/+9I'll just block him based on your assessment. I trust you.
- WHOOMP, on 08/28/2008, -10/+2i guess this would be a bad time to tell everyone i honestly like fox news
- nonsequitur668, on 08/28/2008, -9/+0After reading your comment history, I have blocked you for the following reason:
excessive Apple Fanboyism.
Go back to your mammy's teat.
- nonsequitur668, on 08/28/2008, -3/+0Right on.
- RgyaGramShad, on 08/28/2008, -1/+12after reading your comment history, i have blocked you for the following reason: excessive stupidity.
- SoundScape, on 08/28/2008, -3/+44Is the headline supposed to make us gasp?
- Urkel, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1When you market yourselves as "better than the competition" and throw out taglines like "It Just Works" or "Think Different" then there is an expectation that things will just work and this is a company that doesn't have the problems of the people it slams.
So yes, those who go around bragging that their purchased "lifetstyle" is better than yours should gasp at the realization that in the end more customers means more problems.
- Urkel, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1When you market yourselves as "better than the competition" and throw out taglines like "It Just Works" or "Think Different" then there is an expectation that things will just work and this is a company that doesn't have the problems of the people it slams.
- jobobshishkabob, on 08/28/2008, -15/+44Wow if I see another post that says bad reception or battery life on the iPhone, I'm going to shoot someone. The battery life is not fantastic, but it is comparable to other 3G devices. Maybe people have not noticed it before because the data usage on the iPhone is (generally, for the normal user) greater than other phones. 3G reception is AT&T's fault. Studies have confirmed that. Compared to the last two 3G phones I owned (Blackjack and Motorola Q), the iPhone's reception is far better.
- alphaone, on 08/28/2008, -0/+11I get great battery life overall, partially because of HOW I use the phone. The easiest ways to boost your battery life are:
- use wifi if available, turning 3G off
- turn off gps, 3g, wifi when not in use
- set screen lock to 1 min
- turn brightness way down since it's still very clear
My actual issues with the iphone are rather annoying, to me at least:
- Safari crashes randomly
- Mail sometimes takes far longer than it should to sync imap accts (when internet connection is already verified using Safari)
- Some 'apps' take a while to render: clock (alarm) and settings being the most annoying
Anyone else feel the same way about these articles and lack of articles?- jobobshishkabob, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2I haven't had the Safari issue too much (once in a while some random javascript causes a crash, but not too often).
The only problem I've had with mail is sometimes Yahoo's push takes a while. Sometimes, the message is not downloaded for an hour or unless I open the mail app and sync manually. I'm not sure if that's Yahoo's problem or the phone's problem.
Yes. Clock, settings, texts, phone book. All take their time rendering. - MacHarborGuy, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2I haven't experienced any Safari crashes either. This again shows that the issues don't all seem to be matching up for everyone all of the time.
One glaring issue with Mail and MobileMe that I am having is that Push isn't... "pushing", at least for email. But this does not bug me overly since I use GMail via 15 minute fetch, plus I am paying the same for MobileMe that I was previous and am getting other perks so I can wait for a fix. Haven't had any Mail app errors though.
SMS is off and on with the speed and responsiveness. Sometimes it is as slow as 2.0, other times it becomes almost instant. Have not been able to figure out what is causing it though, since it almost is randomly shifting between the two states.
And then of course whenI run the phone without a restart for a really long period of time and use apps or download them from the iPhone's AppStore, then I get a issues with Apps not loading up. But this also happens on Windows and MacOSX so THATS nothing new for me either. :P - cthellis, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2Indeed, I actually get a lot MORE life out of the device considering the amount I'm allowed to play with the settings over my last phone. ;-) I only WISH they let me turn off ***** 3G! It would kill my battery while being used for absolutely nothing, just due to tower/network switching.
By far the easiest and most effective thing to do is screen brightness tweaks, though. You really don't need more than 1/4 (I keep mine at more like three ticks up from minimum) considering the overall brightness and clarity, and you CERTAINLY don't need it at the default half. You can always adjust it up if the background light gets too heavy.
This emphasizes my major annoyance with it, though... It seriously needs a "preferences toggle," so you could easily cycle through 2-3 major settings at the drop of a hat, instead of fumbling with each radio individually, and there should really be a "turn everything on and to max when plugged into power" setting you can turn on as default, too. When driving, it's usually plugged in, so everything might as well be on. But when it's just being carried around in my pocket, all I really want on is EDGE so that I can get phone calls.
Hell, it would kick ass if it could recognize a game running instead of a generic app, and alter the brightness, turn off 3G, turn off WiFi if I want... All as a part of the bootup process. (Perhaps it could delay the change a bit, so you're not constantly switching things if accidentally hit the wrong icon, are just poking your head around, or are otherwise rapidly switching between games and apps...)
I tested out Super Monkey Ball multiple times to test gaming battery life, and with only EDGE on and the screen brightness at a low-but-perfectly-visible-and-playable level, it was getting over 5 hours. (I would actively play for about 2 hours of that total, and otherwise have a level loaded, the unit tipped, and spinning around in a circle so there was constant activity). And that was using the speaker instead of headphones, too. That's as good if not better than a PSP with the stock battery, brightness at minimum, and headphones in, and the PSP doesn't have any cell communication going on.
...yet people say the game kills the phone in under an hour.
Power management, people. Know what it's there for.
- jobobshishkabob, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2I haven't had the Safari issue too much (once in a while some random javascript causes a crash, but not too often).
- rumblefish25, on 08/28/2008, -1/+5I agree.. it's all about usage.. in the 5 days i owned the iphone.. i have more data traffic than in 2 previous mths.. so battery life is all relative.
- Tenoq, on 08/28/2008, -0/+6I'd agree. TBH, I reckon the iPhone has the best battery life of any large-screen smartphone I've ever seen or used. Coupled with the fact it also makes it far easier to use data - the battery life 'problems' are complete fallacy. And reception issues? Bollocks. Better than any other phone I've owned. :p
- alphaone, on 08/28/2008, -0/+11I get great battery life overall, partially because of HOW I use the phone. The easiest ways to boost your battery life are:
- rawrzzz, on 08/28/2008, -23/+18No company is perfect. Google is close, though.
- philipz78, on 08/28/2008, -14/+5No they aren't. Besides search and GMail, their successes have been marginal at best.
- alphaone, on 08/28/2008, -2/+25Ever hear of google maps or google earth?
- FreddieD, on 08/28/2008, -1/+6And the Google Web Toolkit has been nothing short of awesome for writing AJAX heavy web pages. You write the code in regular Java, and the toolkit converts it into cross-browser compatible Javascript.
- marshallpeck, on 08/28/2008, -1/+4Marginal??? You lack perspective.
- hungryduck, on 08/28/2008, -1/+4Google Reader is amazing. It lets me access my RSS feeds from any computer.
- GregR, on 08/28/2008, -7/+3Word is very buggy but MS has never offered to refund my money for that!
They are quite willing to take my money for the next equally buggy crapware without fixing some of the basic problems, 'tho.- doctordbx, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5I have used Word... *****... I don't know... a massive amount over the past 15 years... and I have yet to encounter a bug in it. Occasionally it flakes out on massive documents or when you try to use the inbuilt scripting language to do something it shouldn't... but for doing what it is supposed to do, it's been massively reliable.
As opposed to Corel Wordperfect *cough* or even OpenOffice.
- doctordbx, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5I have used Word... *****... I don't know... a massive amount over the past 15 years... and I have yet to encounter a bug in it. Occasionally it flakes out on massive documents or when you try to use the inbuilt scripting language to do something it shouldn't... but for doing what it is supposed to do, it's been massively reliable.
- philipz78, on 08/28/2008, -14/+5No they aren't. Besides search and GMail, their successes have been marginal at best.
- RgyaGramShad, on 08/28/2008, -9/+26surprise! no company is perfect!
this is news how?- antdude, on 08/28/2008, -3/+7Even before those, Apple failed with their old products.
- doctordbx, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3Funny because the other day I read a post that called the Newton and Lisa "breakthrough innovations".
They were also complete failures.
Not to mention the Apple III and the Mac Cube. - MacParrot, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5While the Cube really was design genius, NOTHING could save the Apple III and we should all be thankful. Any device that has part of it's troubleshooting include "Lift it about three inches and let it drop" to reseat chips doesn't deserve to live.
- mrBitch, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1+1 for " Any device that has part of it's troubleshooting include "Lift it about three inches and let it drop" to reseat chips doesn't deserve to live. "
- doctordbx, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3Funny because the other day I read a post that called the Newton and Lisa "breakthrough innovations".
- 12340987, on 08/28/2008, -1/+7some people seem unaware
- antdude, on 08/28/2008, -3/+7Even before those, Apple failed with their old products.
- eightyk88, on 08/28/2008, -8/+10but whats your favorite cell phone still????
- philipz78, on 08/28/2008, -4/+3The old school gray cellphone from the 80s.
- r3zonance, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3Motorola StarTAC?
- MacParrot, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2She ain't what she used to be
(too obscure?)
- sbluetruck, on 08/28/2008, -4/+2my nokia from 1998 which accounts for my third testicle
- bjornski, on 08/28/2008, -1/+5My $20 pay-by-the-minute phone.
I use about $10 a month in time. - waydee, on 08/28/2008, -3/+5Nokia N95
- widgetmaker, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5Sure as ***** not an iphone
- utnow, on 08/28/2008, -3/+3The iPhone you pretentious leading-question *****.
- philipz78, on 08/28/2008, -4/+3The old school gray cellphone from the 80s.
- DeathJux, on 08/28/2008, -11/+17You mean Apple can't get everything right the first time?!?? Surely you jest!
- antdude, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5iPhone 3G isn't the first time. Second iPhone product release.
- cthellis, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2...and it's just fine. Certainly better than the first. The lacks people complain about are on both, and 3G is largely problematic in the same way everyone expected... at&t. (I'd love for it to have been on Verizon. They passed. Hell, they still overcharge for data, so I'd be paying more with them even if they got it, so I'll take the trade-off, really.)
MobileMe is a different story, and indeed no shining example.
- cthellis, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2...and it's just fine. Certainly better than the first. The lacks people complain about are on both, and 3G is largely problematic in the same way everyone expected... at&t. (I'd love for it to have been on Verizon. They passed. Hell, they still overcharge for data, so I'd be paying more with them even if they got it, so I'll take the trade-off, really.)
- antdude, on 08/28/2008, -2/+5iPhone 3G isn't the first time. Second iPhone product release.
- sharkd, on 08/28/2008, -22/+41Inaccurate. The 3G reception "problems" are imaginary and/or network-, not hardware-related.
http://www.gp.se/gp/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=444&a=4405 ...
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/08/global-iphon ...- GregR, on 08/28/2008, -2/+7Why are you getting dugg down for stating facts that have been validated by a number of teams?
- hongkongjapie, on 08/28/2008, -4/+7see that you're dug down for providing info, guess digg should be renamed sunday times or so, people read it for sensational stories, not facts.
- hongkongjapie, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1that went down quick!
- phoomp, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1So, why is almost every network having problems with the iPhone and not with other 3G phones?
- jakbrud, on 08/28/2008, -9/+12No one is perfect. Apple is no exception. Its called reality my friends.
- p51d007, on 08/28/2008, -5/+10But the Apple fan boys don't live that way. Their noses are so far up Steve (blow) Jobs that their noses is permanently brown.
- zerhynn, on 08/28/2008, -6/+1Steve Jobs is actually a pretty nice guy.
- MacParrot, on 08/28/2008, -1/+4sigh...as compared to fan boys of any stripe? They're all bad. Ignore the worst ones and just move on
- cthellis, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3No one claims that. Apple fans are no exception. It's called a strawman, my friends.
- p51d007, on 08/28/2008, -5/+10But the Apple fan boys don't live that way. Their noses are so far up Steve (blow) Jobs that their noses is permanently brown.
- Soundengine, on 08/28/2008, -2/+7None of this is really unusual. New products always have flaws. A company's ability to scramble and fix the flaws is what really counts.
- phoomp, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1Except, the iPhone 3G isn't a "new product". It's second generation.
- cadmiumpaint, on 08/28/2008, -18/+8and once again the apple haters jerk off franticly to another "apple isn't perfect" story.
- Koppie, on 08/28/2008, -4/+3I was wondering where all the fanboys were.
- cadmiumpaint, on 08/28/2008, -3/+3there all over this board. look at all the apple haters...they're fanboys too in their own way.
- tobikow, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1And my dick is getting blisters.
- Koppie, on 08/28/2008, -4/+3I was wondering where all the fanboys were.
- ruddy, on 08/28/2008, -9/+2my iphone 3g is sweet, but the reception is shady as hell. I work in atlanta, and i'm suffering from 3g radiation, but my damn phone still wont pick up a solid 3g reception... c'mon apple, i bough this version so it would be fast, but the damn antenna is broked
- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4Come to Toronto for a few weeks. Our 3G network is better.
It's not the phone, dude. Blackberrys have the same problem. - cthellis, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2My iPhone 3G worked flawlessly in Baltimore. It worked great in East Brunswick. It works ~ok~ in Parsippany. It was flaky as balls in NYC.
I'm pretty sure gremlins are not hot-swapping the antenna.
- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -0/+4Come to Toronto for a few weeks. Our 3G network is better.
- timmers0, on 08/28/2008, -15/+9Does the statement: "Apple is Imperfect" offend you?
Then ask yourself: "am I a fanboy"?
I mean, nothing is perfect, and if the notion that Apple isn't absolutely perfect offends you, you need to think long and hard about your priorities. Apple is a very good company. But only a fanatic is offended to learn that it isn't perfect.- cthellis, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2No.
Now ask yourself: "do I love strawman comments"?
- cthellis, on 08/28/2008, -1/+2No.
- airj1012, on 08/28/2008, -2/+14Ok, this is old news. All these repeats of news is...frankly getting old.
- drgkstep, on 08/28/2008, -17/+7Man, it's one thing to be a Windows or Linux fan, but what's with all the Mac haters lately. Jealous cuz you can't afford a real computer? Or all you all shills for Microsoft.
- RgyaGramShad, on 08/28/2008, -2/+11it's the ones like you that make the rest of us mac users look bad
- cthellis, on 08/28/2008, -2/+1You appear to be a head-covering people are often found wearing on their gluteus maximus.
- FUR10N, on 08/28/2008, -14/+9wait, so Macs freeze too? I thought they 'just work'. And those commercials always show just the vista person freezing.
I officially call shenanigans.- alphaone, on 08/28/2008, -6/+8I haven't had ANY mac product freeze on me in the last four years including a powerbook G4, ipod video, and an iphone 3g.
- estvir, on 08/28/2008, -6/+4Phew, it's a good thing the only Apple products in existence are the ones alphaone has and that his experience with Apple products is the only one that exists / counts.
CRISIS AVERTED. - alphaone, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3Fair enough, I'll give you that one.
- damendred, on 08/28/2008, -3/+1Having been forced to used Mac power books for schools for years, (due to editing software) I can say they crash far more than my PC. (which really never fully crashes)
On average they crashed min 2 times a week.
Also, built in software crashed, and hard resets.
This is all with the most recent OS and clean hard drives.
No win 95/lock up style stuff just resets.
Granted, I was putting the mac through fairly intensive stuff (that its supposedly made for), but thier adds trying to act like they're so much more stable the XP or Vista is just propaganda BS thats only defended by fan boys. - MacParrot, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2@damendred
Stop using OS 9 and you should be OK
- estvir, on 08/28/2008, -6/+4Phew, it's a good thing the only Apple products in existence are the ones alphaone has and that his experience with Apple products is the only one that exists / counts.
- crashingechelon, on 08/28/2008, -2/+4Well as a Mac and PC user I can say that Apple's products are flawed but they do work better then most other companies. I've had the drive lock up on my 4G ipod and have run into a couple of software hick-ups on my 6G ipod but nothing major. In my PowerBook G4 I've had it hang at times with it running Tiger then Leopard. My iMac has locked up before and required a restart. My old PC on the other hand running Windows XP has had far more lock ups, crashes, random restarts and other issues. I've run into those far, far less in Tiger and Leopard.
- alphaone, on 08/28/2008, -6/+8I haven't had ANY mac product freeze on me in the last four years including a powerbook G4, ipod video, and an iphone 3g.
- bizkit00, on 08/28/2008, -8/+8here you go "flaky reception": http://digg.com/apple/Repeat_Tests_Show_iPhone_3G_ ...
- mrBitch, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2dug down for using facts based on real world tests?
- LMN8R, on 08/28/2008, -10/+15Amazing what happens when you expose "stable" products to the wider world. The fact that they can't get their software and hardware stable when everything is completely closed off - yes, iPhones with no 3rd party applications installed included - is quite sad.
People give Microsoft ***** for unstable software and operating systems, but Vista, while not so great upon release, is now a fantastically stable operating system that supports countless devices, infinitely more combinations of hardware than Apple could ever be scared ***** to support.- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -4/+4Closed?
You mean like my Macbook, which works flawlessly with my 2 printers (one Samsung, one Canon).. my EyeTV by Elgato HDTV usb stick, every USB device I've ever owned (7 of them I've owned for over 4 years..so I used them with XP and Vista and half the time they didnt work properly) .. my 2 digital cameras one a Kodak and one a Sony...both work fine in OS X without ANY software or driver downloads / updates.....
I have had more success with 3rd party hardware on my Macbook than with any other computer I've ever owned....and the others (since 1985 until 2007) were all Windows PCs..- LMN8R, on 08/28/2008, -1/+4Yeah, like USB hardware is so hard to support. Perhaps you're forgetting about the tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of PCI-based hardware? TV tuners, sound cards, video cards, SATA cards, and countless other devices.
USB devices are easy to support, it's the nature of the freaking connection. Get back to me when Apple starts supporting the difficult stuff. - MacParrot, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3@LMN8R
Are you serious? No matter WHAT kind of connection, devices more complicated that say mice or keyboards still need drivers. There are plenty of USB devices that don't work with OS X because the makers won't create drivers. - r3zonance, on 08/28/2008, -3/+2"Yeah, like USB hardware is so hard to support"
Yet, still Windows XP manages to balls it up somehow.
- LMN8R, on 08/28/2008, -1/+4Yeah, like USB hardware is so hard to support. Perhaps you're forgetting about the tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of PCI-based hardware? TV tuners, sound cards, video cards, SATA cards, and countless other devices.
- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -4/+4Closed?
- LMN8R, on 08/28/2008, -12/+7Amazing what happens when you expose "stable" products to the wider world. The fact that they can't get their software and hardware stable when everything is completely closed off - yes, iPhones with no 3rd party applications installed included - is quite sad.
People give Microsoft ***** for unstable software and operating systems, but Vista, while not so great upon release, is now a fantastically stable operating system that supports countless devices, infinitely more combinations of hardware than Apple could ever be scared ***** to support.- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -5/+4Actually, I'd bet you that out of the box the Apple computers support MORE usb devices than windows. My friends have already found out that my Macbook supports all their digital cameras and video cameras WITHOUT having to download drivers and without having a heart attack (blue screening)...
- LMN8R, on 08/28/2008, -3/+3You are an ignorant, uninformed dumbass if you think that a camera which works without drivers in OS X will require separate drivers to be installed for Vista.
Printers from 3-4 years ago, tens of digital cameras, scanners, and more that I've installed on my various desktops and laptops running Vista have all worked flawlessly without installing a single driver. - MScrip, on 08/28/2008, -4/+1I can't even remember the last time I had to go "download" a driver for Windows. Digital cameras, USB hard drives and flash drives just work. Even in XP. When I reinstall XP on my old machine, all my USB devices and Firewire external hard drives work. USB mass storage devices have been supported in Windows for the last 7 years.
I've never had to carry a CD of drivers with my flash drive... - doctordbx, on 08/28/2008, -4/+1"My friends have already found out that my Macbook supports all their digital cameras..."
I seriously doubt you have friends. (Internet buddies don't count). - ctonks, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3@LMN8R & @MScrip
try plugging in a razr into any windows machine, the damn thing will drain the battery instead of charge until the USB drivers are installed.
plug it into either my powerbook G4 or macbook pro and it starts charging without installing drivers.
same deal with my sony ericsson k750i and k610i.
also with my hp psc 1315 all in one printer/scanner. no drivers required to be installed for mac to print to it (needs drivers to scan).
drivers were installed automatically in windows (downloaded from on-line, so if it wasn't connected to the internet it wouldn't work) for it to print.
EDIT: this is for both winXP and Vista.
- LMN8R, on 08/28/2008, -3/+3You are an ignorant, uninformed dumbass if you think that a camera which works without drivers in OS X will require separate drivers to be installed for Vista.
- hongkongjapie, on 08/28/2008, -3/+3I have no iPhone and as long as there are no reasonably priced, legal, unlocked iphone's fat change I'll have one, but not having 3rd party apps installed by default? Good! Have bought a HP/Compaq PC and after first clicking, waiting, waiting, waiting through the intallation/configutation ***** that took at least half an hour (they call that pre-installed), had to uninstall loads of crapware that took more than have an hour to, you can't bulk deinstall, no you have to do it one by one, waiting and clicking through many dialogs. Somehow it's not reasonable anymore to expect an installation DVD so you can make a clean install, yes you can make an installation DVD yourself, but that doesn't give you a clean install, but just the factory installation again.
Then, Vista is really unusable with 1GB of ram, yet according to MS and it's partners it's a perfectly reasonable configuration to stuff your customers with. Then, assuming Vista is about multimedia, let's launch some .m4v video's h264 encoded, one of the major video formats and containers, heard it's an ok format for Xbox 360, but somehow Windows Media Center can't play that. After some searching found plugins, at least it can play the files now, but doesn't work well (no preview, etc).
Let's talk about features, something I find useful is accessing a computer in another room, saves some walking, the windows help explains exactly how to activate that, except the described buttons are missing in the dialog. Somehow the Vista team thought that it's something nice to leave out of the home edition range, but forgot to update the help documentation. Also generating PDF files, spell checking in every program, dictionary look up, easy backup, ... Mac OS X is far from flawless and so are Macs but I think it's surprising that Apple manages with a development team a fraction of the size and resources of Microsofts dev. team is able to build a system that compete and on many points even surpass that what comes from Microsoft.
Vista has it strength, and maybe is more stable than Leopard and surely has more hardware support. But for many people Mac OS X and the iPhone wins in usability, and it can be the little things, like the spell-checking, that help improve the overall experience. For a version 2 of an mobile OS think it's quite amazing that Apple has got where it is. Do you remember the earlier versions of Windows CE? Windows CE/Mobile is successful because Microsoft improved it over many iterations, dumped it on the market for rock-bottom prices and because Palm managed to completely mess up on all fronts.
Much of the iPhone's success is hype but not all, apparently Apple did manage to do some key things right and different that the massive mobile industry was doing. Maybe Apple is forced out of the market again in a few years, who knows, but it did manage to have quite an impact on the mobile industry and not in numbers but in the way new mobile phones are designed.
You probably think I'm a massive Apple fan-boy, and maybe on some points I am, I mainly use a Mac for my work (helps that my development tool only runs on a Mac). Good change I'll end up with Windows again someday or who knows, will linux be useful enough for me...
Woah, put way to much time in this, and it probably will be dugg into oblivion in no time...- mrBitch, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1RE: " ... bought a HP/Compaq PC and after first clicking, waiting, waiting, waiting through the intallation/configutation ***** that took at least half an hour (they call that pre-installed), had to uninstall loads of crapware that took more than have an hour to, you can't bulk deinstall, no you have to do it one by one, waiting and clicking through many dialogs."
That's what really took me by surprise when I switched from Windows and bought a MacBook over a year ago - the first time you power it up it asks you :
1. your user login name & password
2. if you want to trial ".Mac"
- and THAT'S IT !
30 seconds later, and I was booted into a brand new OS X install with NO CRAP-WARE.
Compared to starting up a brand new Windows laptop - that was an amazing experience, and an amazing introduction to OS X.
- mrBitch, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1RE: " ... bought a HP/Compaq PC and after first clicking, waiting, waiting, waiting through the intallation/configutation ***** that took at least half an hour (they call that pre-installed), had to uninstall loads of crapware that took more than have an hour to, you can't bulk deinstall, no you have to do it one by one, waiting and clicking through many dialogs."
- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -5/+4Actually, I'd bet you that out of the box the Apple computers support MORE usb devices than windows. My friends have already found out that my Macbook supports all their digital cameras and video cameras WITHOUT having to download drivers and without having a heart attack (blue screening)...
- Junior612, on 08/28/2008, -10/+1My CrackBook works just fine.
- Nouman6, on 08/28/2008, -3/+4So everyone will read these issues....and then forget them once the new apple products come out next month.
WAIT A FEW WEEKS AND READ THE REVIEWS.
I for one don't enjoy the hassle of returning a faulty item. - P8ntBal1551, on 08/28/2008, -6/+5saying apple is imperfect is like saying windows is imperfect, its quite obvious
- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -6/+2But OS X is imperfect once a year, where Windows shows its imperfection every day... actually, every SECOND seeing as third party software is required to patch it's security holes...
- doctordbx, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1But it could be said at least Microsoft patch their security holes when they find them.
- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -6/+2But OS X is imperfect once a year, where Windows shows its imperfection every day... actually, every SECOND seeing as third party software is required to patch it's security holes...
- ErickStevenson, on 08/28/2008, -8/+5You guys lie... Im going to cover my ears and yell real loud now...
Why are people even loyal to any Company? if a product is good/does what you need it to do, buy it... if it's ***** move on... people will stop arguing over what is better when they get that into their heads... they don't give you free ***** for being loyal to them, if they did I would be on Apple's balls like these fanboys, but they don't...now everyone move on and stop this fanboy nonsense... - Gee1004, on 08/28/2008, -10/+5So a server problem for about 1% which didn't include me and AT&T inability to handle all the iphones was considered a botched up Apple...lolololol
- supersteve, on 08/28/2008, -10/+3everything has it's problems and most things get fixed, unless it's VISTA.
My iPhone has it's share of problems but there is not a day that goes by I don't love using it. - digiguy, on 08/28/2008, -3/+5This is my general opinion, if the product works with most of the people or even 2 people, then the fault lies somewhere else
- tobikow, on 08/28/2008, -4/+8Nobody gives a *****. apple fans will keep buying apple ***** even when it sucks, and end everyone else will bitch about it.
- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -8/+1Call me when it sucks. Windows has sucked since the first time I used it.... Windows 3.11 kid... Windows 3.11 kid.
- akirakurosawa, on 08/28/2008, -9/+3Apple > The World
- wevegotthejazz, on 08/28/2008, -1/+5my balls itch
- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -11/+6Windows fanboys just don't get it (and I assume the poster is a windows kool-aid drinking lemming)...
Nobody EVER said Apple was perfect... We did however say that OS X didn't suck, and WORKED properly... without anti-virus... without the thousands of security holes (which remain unplugged by Microsoft and instead must be patched closed by YOU the user using crappy anti-spyware and anti-virus REALTIME protection which in some cases (can you say NORTON or McAFEE) slow down your computer or take up 20% of your damn cpu time...
Seriously...
Who the ***** said Apple was perfect?
I've switched 2 years ago and have rebooted my new Apple Macbook about 4 times (it's like a serious occassion for me now when I have to reboot mu computer... record uptime is around 9 months)... No spyware, viruses... no re-install of my OS once a year like I did since Windows 3.11 up to Vista... No, it isn't perfect but its a ***** load of a lot better than Windows... It's UNIX that works out of the box... it's what Linux promised to be 20 years ago and keeps promising to be every year since then...
Only Windowologist cult kool-aid drinkers claim that Apple is supposed to be perfect... They shout A HA!!!!!! See??? Apple isn't perfect when they hear about a security flaw... What they don't get is that Apple will patch it within a week or so... but when Windows has a security flaw, it's usually up to McAfee or Symantec to patch it for you...
Sad, fanboys. Very sad.- RSAgent007, on 08/28/2008, -2/+12You realize that within the past year, OS X had more security bugs than both XP and Vista combined?
Average flaws per month:
Windows XP: 2.83
Windows Vista: 1.67
Mac OS X: 20.25
Source: http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758- doctordbx, on 08/28/2008, -2/+3Shhhh... don't let FACTS stand in the way of another supermanred Apple jerk off post.
- tao52nyc, on 08/28/2008, -1/+0How many of those alleged "flaws" actually led to real honest EXPLOITS in the wild? Apple: none.
Windows: all. Comment buried for being disingenuous.
You Winblows fanboys need to get over yourselves.
- nonsequitur668, on 08/28/2008, -3/+0TL;DR
- over9k, on 08/28/2008, -0/+0"It just works" comes to my mind.
- MacParrot, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1Thank goodness SOMETHING did!
- phoomp, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2Every Mac vs. PC ad comes to mind as well.
- RSAgent007, on 08/28/2008, -2/+12You realize that within the past year, OS X had more security bugs than both XP and Vista combined?
- batmanz, on 08/28/2008, -3/+6Quick fanboys! Apple is in trouble, you must defend it at all costs! Rush to the nearest forum and let everyone know how you feel!
- bjornski, on 08/28/2008, -1/+3I come here just to read those and chuckle.
- hayden.evans, on 08/28/2008, -1/+4No company ever produces a PERFECT product. end of story, period.
- nicpedersen, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1oh yeah? what about "The PERFECT Pushup" ???!
its got a steel ball bearing movement.... as seen on tv.
- nicpedersen, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1oh yeah? what about "The PERFECT Pushup" ???!
- socialrebel, on 08/28/2008, -6/+3buried as inaccurate. reception is the carrier's fault, not apple's.
- easy4lif, on 08/28/2008, -4/+1I believe what happened has happen as long as there have been companies on this earth. Products are invented and tested in a LAB setting. Everything goes well and its put out into the market, only then do the real world test begin and you find problems that weren't found in the LAB setting. Microsoft's problem is they try to please everyone and in the process please no one. Apple's current problem is everything runs & tests well at 1 Infinite loop, but release it out into the real world and you'll find problems. The Chevrolet Corvair tested well at GM headquarters but it took real world test & ralph nader to find just how unsafe that car really was
look, apple dropped the ball (AGAIN) on mobileme just like they dropped the ball on iTools, and .mac.
but i believe that with a firmware update and some tweaking on the ATT&T side things sould look up. - chroko, on 08/28/2008, -5/+3I'm happy with my iPhone G3. MobileMe was touchy at first, but it does work. But push mail didn't work until I set the "fetch" data schedule to "manual" (not that I have any fetch email accounts) - so there might be a bug with those settings. Anyway, the four biggest problems (for me, anyway):
* Lack of integration between apps. If someone emails you a phone number or address, I have to write it down before adding a new contact. Mail and Safari need the "add to new / existing contact" thing like in the desktop Mail.app. Copy + paste would also solve this, in a clunky way - and would also let you copy text from a webpage and paste into a note.
* Can't turn off "load images" on incoming email. You have to be very careful to delete spam before opening it.
* Can't disable the tilt sensor. It is never useful in apps.. and sometimes I *want* to be able to view web pages while lying down.
* The iPod interface is bad and unrefined. The only control that works well is "stop". Coverflow gets in the way.
So yeah, pretty much all my complaints could be solved in software - but it's still a better phone than the Treo that preceded it. - nonsequitur668, on 08/28/2008, -8/+7I don't know how to tell you this, but Apple's ignorance is matched only by its arrogance. What follows is a call to action for those of us who care -- a large enough number to create and nurture a true spirit of community. In order to solve the big problems with Apple we must first understand these problems, and to understand them, we must embrace the cause of self-determination and recognize the leading role and clearer understanding of those people for whom the quintessential struggle is an encompassing liberation movement against the totality of elitism. Sometime in the future Apple will propitiate debauched meanies for later eventualities. Fortunately, that hasn't happened...yet. But it will definitely happen if we don't oppose our human vices wherever they may be found -- arrogance, hatred, jealousy, unfaithfulness, avarice, and so on. To summarize my views: Apple should judge not lest it be judged.
- eggsovereasy, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2Using a thesaurus doesn't make you smart.
- judicar, on 08/28/2008, -0/+5Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
- AppleMacStud, on 08/28/2008, -10/+4Once you go Mac you won't go back.
- doctordbx, on 08/28/2008, -2/+4Unless of course you were one of the poor abused Apple customers of the early to mid 90's where the OS crashed constantly and Adobe programs were way slower than their PC counterparts.
- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2Adobe on Apple has always been faster, thats why the entire printing industry is 100% Apple. I work in Printing industry, and all of our customers use Apple networks and don't know what a blue screen is.
- doctordbx, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2"Adobe on Apple has always been faster, thats why the entire printing industry is 100% Apple. I work in Printing industry, and all of our customers use Apple networks and don't know what a blue screen is."
Printing ***** more like it. - thesoze, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1so what is that revolving umbrella icon? and why does my friend curse when it happens?
suck it long-suck it hard! - jermm, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2Photoshop is faster on the windows. But Mac OS has color management that works, so Mac is the choice.
And damn the beachball is ***** painful, but it has been pretty much killed with the combination of the Core 2, more ram, and better GPUs.
- doctordbx, on 08/28/2008, -2/+4Unless of course you were one of the poor abused Apple customers of the early to mid 90's where the OS crashed constantly and Adobe programs were way slower than their PC counterparts.
- waydee, on 08/28/2008, -5/+3lol apple.
- e2superman, on 08/28/2008, -4/+6Welcome to designing code and hardware for more than a tiny group of people. All those years you slammed MS. Not so easy huh?! And Apple is what market share? Imagine being 85% or so :).
- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -5/+1I just counted the 3rd party hardware I use with my Macbook.
10 in all.
And they have all worked flawlessly from day one.
You obviously have never used a Mac to say that Apple doesn't support 3rd party hardware.
I'd love to see YOU change the motherboard or graphics card in YOUR laptop. - mphree, on 08/28/2008, -0/+3e2superman: Best comment in this whole damn thread.
- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -5/+1I just counted the 3rd party hardware I use with my Macbook.
- supermanred, on 08/28/2008, -6/+1As of this week...
97,467 Viruses capable of infecting a virgin, non-"protected" by 3rd party software Windwos XP or Vista PC.
0 Viruses capable of infecting the same in OS X.
Seriously people, get a life.- tao52nyc, on 08/28/2008, -0/+0Indeed, there are even Windows viruses in ***** SPACE now! What idiot decided PC laptops should be used on the ISS? It's one thing to put up with crapware on Earth, but what if the WinCE controller for your oxygen supply locks up, MSFT tech support is a million miles away, and they put you on hold? You die. All those who would be willing to depend on Microsoft software for their very lives please raise their hands...
- duckyinc, on 08/28/2008, -1/+1I don't like apple but how long can you use MobileMe as a way to attack apple? It's just one product.
- robogobo, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2is this supposed to be news?
- mynameistux, on 08/28/2008, -2/+2iMperfect
- Enron, on 08/28/2008, -5/+3Barack Obama sucks.
- Zippo, on 08/28/2008, -2/+1Whine, whine, whine.
The majority of people have been pretty satisfied with the iPhone 3G and MobileMe, myself included. And, as have tests have shown, it's not the iPhone's fault that AT&T's network sucks.
Besides, no one ever said Apple was perfect. When it comes to software and hardware, nothing is perfect. - vinbot, on 08/28/2008, -0/+2http://digg.com/apple/Apples_Biggest_Disasters
Why the ***** do I even submit anything to Digg?- MrSkills, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1I know the feeling. If I accidentally try to submit something that's already on Digg, it won't let me. But whenever I post something, one of the Digg elite re-posts it 2 hours later and gets 1000 diggs. Go figure.
Anyway, I gave you a digg, because any moment, the usual army will come along and bury your comment (and mine) ...- vinbot, on 08/31/2008, -0/+1Thanks, man
I just decided I won't submit anything. Seems like the real hard core diggers have it covered...
- vinbot, on 08/31/2008, -0/+1Thanks, man
- MrSkills, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1I know the feeling. If I accidentally try to submit something that's already on Digg, it won't let me. But whenever I post something, one of the Digg elite re-posts it 2 hours later and gets 1000 diggs. Go figure.
- BenjaminWill, on 08/28/2008, -0/+1I don't get posts like this. How anyone has the gall to complain about Mobile Me and its few launch problems, or a few iPhone hitches that have mostly been addressed with regular updates, when Apple a) issues everyone on Mobile Me 90 free days of service which I think considering their problems is VERY generous indeed, and b) has worked hard to ensure the iPhone's software be regularly updated and patched to iron out the few problems.
I'd like to see another company take on what Apple did and pull it off better. I'd bet all the money I have in my bank none of them could. What the iPhone and software 2.0 offers after less than 2 months of shelf life is more than just about every other phone combined and then some, and Apple have only a year of experience in the field let's not forget. The fact that is is reportedly selling 800,000 units a week and is said to cross the 6M mark either this week or early next is just phenomenal. At this rate the iPhone 3G is outselling the worldwide weekly sales of the DS, Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360 put together.
But the fact remains, the few problems both these new products have had are only present for a short while. We all know Apple will quickly resolve any issues and make them even better; it's inevitable. And to be honest, I think that for the sheer impact these have had and will have in the future, especially the iPhone, a few issues at launch is more than acceptable.
Oh, and no company is perfect, but I know of no other that can match Apple for consistency and prowess. Not even the most ardent Apple fanboy (I am probably in the top 10) will say it is perfect, but pointing out such ridiculously obvious things like "Apple Imperfect" just invites fanboy arguments from everyone, not just Apple fanboys. For example, the article a few days ago that was pointing out something to do with Apple making false marketing claims in its ads (this amused me for a few reasons that I'll get to later) which later turned out to be complete ***** when numerous tests were undertaken and was proven to be something I could have told people not ten seconds after the news broke: it wasn't Apple's fault, it wasn't the hardware, it was merely the 3G network itself. Yet the article still made the Digg front page with over a thousand Diggs.
Why not point out 100s of other ads which falsely advertise products by not actually showing them in operation. It's like this: Apple actually show their products in the ads and on their site, not digitally enhanced with added gloss or manipulated elements like so many others do, but the real McCoy. The latest Samsung phone ads here in the UK are pretty laughable. They show the phone doing so many things at once, yet you hardly ever see a glimpse of the phone actually doing any of the stuff shown, just a bunch of loud noises and fancy CGI effects dancing before your eyes. The Nokia ads are the same, probably worse, by showing the MP3 side of the phone as being completely revolutionary - I've tried and it's complete and utter *****. But of course you don't see the product in action on the ads, just the usual visual and audio fireworks designed to appeal to people without a brain.
Anyway, I think I've overstayed my welcome.- boxarox, on 08/28/2008, -0/+0Wow...you are an apologist, I agree no company is perfect...but 3g iPhones on AT%T will not connect in our buliding while other 3g phones on AT&T work fine.
And this is not a serious problem? 3 months later and still no real fix?
Embarassment for Iphone owners indeed. Maybe the next software update will address the usuable phone feature.
- boxarox, on 08/28/2008, -0/+0Wow...you are an apologist, I agree no company is perfect...but 3g iPhones on AT%T will not connect in our buliding while other 3g phones on AT&T work fine.
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