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Apple Bootcamp gets better

shahine.com — Microsoft employee blogs: "I think all my future PCees will be Macs."

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  • nextsteposx, on 10/10/2007, -24/+68Same here, I did a double take when I first saw it.

    Better than most windows laptops... Sad but true.

    Now if Apple would only expand there laptops with a mid tier between consumer and Pro.

    We need a Prosumer Macbook and Macpro
    • dgblackout, on 10/10/2007, -4/+42i thought the prosumer macbook was the black macbook or the base model macbook pro.
      • DaveClarkOne, on 10/10/2007, -2/+26You are correct. The biggest difference between them is price. The specs don't leave much room for another computer between them, so I'm not sure why the question is being asked.
      • WiseWeasel, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8No, the missing model would have a 15" screen and integrated graphics...
        • Shorties, on 10/10/2007, -5/+3Why not a 12 inch macbook pro with independent graphics?
        • Namelessthinker, on 10/10/2007, -0/+313 inch
          The 12inch line died with the g4 chips.
    • michaelinnotts, on 10/10/2007, -32/+5Stop making up really annoying words like "prosumer". Wanker.
    • MrSpontaneous, on 10/10/2007, -28/+7now if only apple would give in and add a right click to their laptops. That newfangled multi-touch/command click stuff is annoying.
      • manitoba98xp, on 10/10/2007, -5/+28Is it really that annoying? Once you get used to it, I've heard that the multi-touch right-clicking technique is often faster.
        • hiro, on 10/10/2007, -15/+4It isn't.
          • Xenogis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8For me it is the same speed.
          • DaffyDuck, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5It is. I've used both and tapping with 2 fingers on the pad is just as fast as tapping a button.
          • aryayush, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3And it is just better. More convenient. I've never missed the second button and wouldn't even mind if they did not have the one button they do. Apple notebooks definitely have the best trackpads in the business.
        • Xenogis, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15Stop bitching about it. That is how apple is and it isn't going to change soon. After a day of tapping with two fingers to right click and one to left click you don't think about it.
        • Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Yes, but it doesn't allow for combinations the way discrete buttons do, which means you'll miss out on some functionality in non-OSX environments.

          Of course, if you're even a bit sane, you'll get a 3d-party mouse anyway, so it's mostly a non-issue, but still annoying.
          • aryayush, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2The trackpad is so good actually, that of all the notebooks I've ever used, my MacBook Pro is the only one I haven't bought a mouse for. (Actually, I did, but did not use it.)
        • WiseWeasel, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5The problem in Windows in Boot Camp is that this function is crippled. Instead of just tapping the trackpad with two fingers to right-click, like I do in OS X, I have to tap the trackpad with two fingers AND click the mouse button, which is more annoying.
        • AceyS, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It's true you cant right click in Windows with boot camp, but Gdamn! is the two finger scrolling and right clicking 10x better. Move the mouse, click, right click, and scrolling all without moving over to find some buttons. And if you must have the tactile click, you have one big fatty button to hit with not a thought. Multi input (or however it works) touchpad FTW
      • crazybrit, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11You can plug in any USB mouse, you fool.
      • zweben, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3You can also enable two fingers on the trackpad + click to equal a right click.

        Not perfect but it's something.
        • gordeaoux, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Still doesnt work if you need to right-click drag.
          • aryayush, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Why would you need to do that anyway?
          • Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1@arayaush:
            Moving the map in OpenTTD? ;)
      • MaxPayne3476, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2oh my god, once you go two-finger right click you'll never go back! It's honestly amazing. I can't even use laptops with two buttons anymore.
    • rpgmaker, on 10/10/2007, -9/+2Someone has tested a Linux distro on the new iMac? I definitely buy one but I have to know if it is Linux compatible first.

      Why hasn't Dell come up with a PC that competes with the Apple's iMac?
      • cwcheang, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Well the new iMac uses Ati Radeon cards now so i doubt it...
        I was a bit disappointed actually. They should've sticked to nvidia.
      • Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2You can get Linux to run, yes, but those ATI cards are PITAs to get running *properly.*
        It will run, but not well.
    • willis77, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11their
    • sirgolf82, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11'their laptops'

      //grammar police
    • cruzlee, on 10/10/2007, -5/+3I heard these bootcamps are pointless for Macs. They only need to boot once.

      (muffled BA DA BING)
  • Gir9000, on 10/10/2007, -26/+21Although I cannot understand why you would need windows at all, boot camp is cool. I myself am looking out for a 13.3-inch Macbook Pro. Hopefully it gets here by next Macworld.
    • MediaShipper, on 10/10/2007, -30/+8hi
    • allan17, on 10/10/2007, -12/+30Maybe because Mac's can't use all the programs that Windows can?
      • Me1000, on 10/10/2007, -11/+4But there is ALWAYS a alternative...
        • blacklint, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8No, sometimes there just plain isn't. In my case, it's the proprietary C compiler for the robot controller used in the FIRST competition. However, I can run it in Parallels, and all is good. Other programs I use that simply don't have alternatives include firmware updaters... and do you know a good way to test in IE without Windows?
          • aryayush, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2I do. Use CrossOver or Opera masked as Internet Explorer.
          • Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8@arayaush:
            Opera masked as IE is still Opera. You need IE to test things in IE.
          • msgyrd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2CrossOver lets you install IE6/7 inside of Linux or OS X with ease. It can be done using vanilla WINE with slightly more effort too.
        • karlhite, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3I boot to XP to Seem/Flex cell phones.
      • DaffyDuck, on 10/10/2007, -4/+6I think you meant to say OS X can't use all the programs that Windows can.
      • calgone, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2There have been maybe 2 or 3 programs that I could not find an alternative to and the majority of the alternatives work as good if not better than their Windows equivalents. Mac developers are extremely passionate about their work and put tons of effort in to their apps.
        • therightclique, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1man, i'm sure ***** glad i'm not you.
    • bovox, on 10/10/2007, -26/+16What's so hard to understand? DirectX. Full MS Office compatibility with corporate PC's. Easy/Cost-Effective upgradeability of hardware components. Windows Media Center (OSX has no equivalent at all). Full compatibility with all online commerce sites (e.g., Vongo). Every piece of hardware component available is designed to run on a Windows machine (OS X cannot even come close to making the same boasts).
      • P373Y, on 10/10/2007, -9/+9frontrow. common.
        • Khuffie, on 10/10/2007, -15/+4Frontrow is a joke compared to Media Center
          • Xenogis, on 10/10/2007, -4/+9I use frontrow all the time and I assure you it is just as good for watching media as "Media Center" is. The only place it is lacking is TV recording (which it cant do) But that doesn't really matter since most of the time you wont have a TV card in your mac
          • WiseWeasel, on 10/10/2007, -4/+6At least it works...
          • crazybrit, on 10/10/2007, -6/+5Yeahno. Media Center has more features, but Front Row does a lot of stuff better - for instance, you can actually organize your videos, by show and season. It makes a huge difference if you want to rip all your DVDs and be able to watch them from Front Row or iTunes.
      • ninjakoala, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8I'm quite happy with my Mac Mini + EyeTV solution. It acts as a PVR, media center and it serves files to my other computers. I'd say that's a pretty good alternative to a Windows Media Center. It cost me a lot less to buy those two things than it would have to buy a ready to go solution with Win MCE around here.

        Oh, and my tuner? Doesn't work with Windows.
      • Konstantino, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6"Every piece of hardware component available is designed to run on a Windows machine (OS X cannot even come close to making the same boasts)."

        Yes, the original Apple keyboard was actually made to run on Windows originally, too. Way to point out a bunch of Windows features that are easily matched. By the way, most peripherals work on OS X fine, regardless of the fact that they're "designed" for Windows.
        • bovox, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3OK. Try to stick an 8800GTS Nvidia card into an iMac. Or how about an HDTV Tuner card to extend your iMac's functionality as a PVR. Or how about adding four 500 Gigabyte Hard Drives into a $1200 Mac. The only place Macs are superior to PC's is in the notebook market--and this is simply because the PC's greatest strength (hardware upgradeability) is rendered moot since notebooks are not upgradeable to the extent that desktops are.
          • chromerium, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0granted on the card. But there are many HDTV tuners for macs that use firewire or USB2.0. Usually it's trivial to replace the internal hard disk in your iMac.

            The biggest thing letting macs down right now is the video chips they put in the machines. Overall they are pretty good value for most people, though.
        • datdamonfoo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You win.
        • jads, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2@bovox

          You could apply the exact same argument to the Sony Vaio VGC-LA - an all-in-one machine. This cannot have another graphics card or 4 drives rammed into it. If you do need expandability, get a Mac Pro. Not everyone actually wants to upgrade components all the time. For extra storage, external hard drives are around £20/$12 more expensive nowadays for a FW400/USB drive. Go for FW800 if you need the faster transfer rates.

          And you can buy external HDTV tuners to turn the iMac, or any other mac into a PVR. They've been around for a while (EyeTV 500).
      • BEDrocko, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Well sooorrrryyy Apple doesn't cater to YOUR specific computing needs. I want a Dell or HP PC which only needs a power cord to use, sits compact on my desk, is almost silent and takes 5 minutes to setup... Well damn, they don't have it.

        Did I mention it needs to be reliable?
    • outlaw686, on 10/10/2007, -12/+4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      • BEDrocko, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1!!!!!!!!!ARE FOR KIDS!!!!!!!!
        Go get a job and be productive with your life and time.
      • senatorpjt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Get a PS3 or a Wii. I could say 360, but that would defeat the purpose of not using Windows.
    • nova912, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Proofing site design on lame ass IE 5.5-7.
      • msgyrd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2CrossOver and Wine? You don't need a full Windows install to run IE.
    • calgone, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2Microsoft Office for Mac, upgrarding components are for people that like to tweak every setting and squeeze every ounce out of hardware...I prefer to turn my computer on and it just works...no tweaking needed, FrontRow or EyeTV, most online commerce sites work great with Safari or Firefox they only crap out when they're selling DRM'd WMV stuff...if that was really the only thing holding you back, there's other means of getting the stuff.
    • mercurysquad, on 10/10/2007, -4/+4I didnt know there was a 13.3" MacBook Pro.
      • Konstantino, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4He said he was waiting for one, hence the "Hopefully it gets here by next Macworld."
    • dcconz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Web Development. I need windows to do testing on. Unfortunately IE is still the most used browser.
  • chrismag1979, on 10/10/2007, -35/+5Ubuntu employee blogs: "I think all my future PCees will be Macs" and "all Macs are run by what else, Linux"
    • zybch, on 10/10/2007, -31/+3Yup, shiny walled garden UI slapped on top of a free OS.
      • meatmcguffin, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9Walled garden? How is it a 'walled garden' when it has a unix terminal?

        Yet again, you fail at trolling.
    • jongarber, on 10/10/2007, -7/+34No, Macs are not run by Linux. Mac OS X's core is built on Unix, as is Linux. If I am correct, Mac OS X and Linux are both branches of Unix.
      • BuddhistPirate, on 10/10/2007, -4/+9Kind of... but not really branches. OSX is close to a branch of Unix (though not entirely: uses mach kernel blah blah blah).

        Linux is more of a derivative work of Unix and is most definitely not powered by the same "core". Linux was inspired by Unix, perhaps is a better way to put it. I could go deeper, but I think thats why they made Google/Wikipedia/The Internet, so you can go find out yourself.
      • greerso, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10I'm pretty sure Linux Is Not (a branch of) UniX, but was built from the ground up. OSX was derived from BSD, a flavor of Unix.
      • Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -3/+3Linux is based on (not built on) Minix, which was inspired by, but not actually related to, Unix (i.e. it is Unix-like).
        OSX is built on and around Darwin, which is partially based on FreeBSD, which in turn traces its roots back to Unix TS System 6 and 7. Therefore, it is Unix-based.

        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/11/Unix-history.svg
        see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix-like
      • Ulrika, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5You are making a common mistake, confusing the OS name with the kernel name. What is casually called "Linux" is in fact the GNU operating system running the Linux kernel and is preferably called GNU/Linux. GNU is an operating system written from scratch to provide a free Unix-like operating system to all, getting around AT&T's copyright on Unix (now held by Novell). In fact, GNU is a recursive acronym that stands for "GNU is not Unix". Linux is a kernel written to get around the licensing fee of a kernel known as Minix. GNU/Linux was born when the GNU OS (lacking a functional kernel) was married with the Linux kernel. Finally, what is called "OSX" above is BSD running the XNU kernel and is officially called Mac OS X. BSD is a Unix derivative written at the University of California at Berkeley in the 1970s. The XNU kernel is a combination of the BSD kernel and the Mach kernel, which was developed for the NeXT computer platform, the product of a company created by Steve Jobs after he left Apple years ago.

        Important to note is that GNU and BSD are technically referred to as just "GNU" and "BSD", not "GNU Unix" or "BSD Unix". So, to recap, there's Unix, GNU, BSD, and NeXT for operating systems and Linux, Minix, XNU, and Mach for kernels. :)
    • Ramble, on 10/10/2007, -1/+22Macs don't run on Linux....
      • Me1000, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1I have installed ubuntu on my mac before...
      • DaffyDuck, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2"Macs don't run on Linux...."

        But they can if you want.
    • adz999, on 10/10/2007, -14/+4Apples brand of computers iMac, Macbook etc all run by default OS X, and every tme you use terminal....you know what terminal is right?. Anyhow you get greeted with "Welcome to Darwin!" =] ..you know what darwin is right? RIGHT?
      // *loses all hope in the average digg user"
      • ArthurSucks, on 10/10/2007, -6/+8Yes, that's UNIX. Linux is Unix based, Unix is not Linux.
        • adz999, on 10/10/2007, -7/+2Thankyou captain obvious!
        • douggmc, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10For ***** sake, quit saying this people! Linux is not Unix based! It was originally built from the ground up (the kernel) by Linus Torvalds. Mac OS X is originally based off BSD Unix
          • shanevendrell, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0.
          • DaffyDuck, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1But it has so much more in common with Unix, than say Windows, that I think it's forgivable to say it's based on Unix although not completely accurate. Examples: there is no registry, permissions are set in similar manners, many of the same programs will work with both (such as top). In other words, the design concepts for Linux and Unix are very similar so it's easy to point out similarities.
        • CATSCEO, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4Its UNIX-Like, not UNIX-based

          UNIX-based = based on UNIX

          UNIX-like = behaves like UNIX
          • therightclique, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2i'm pretty sure if unix had never existed, LINUX would be completely different. it's definitely fair to say it is at least partially based on unix. that doesn't imply in any way that it has unix code in it--just that it uses code and concepts inspired by unix.
          • bradleyland, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I'm amazed that people are digging you down. Maybe they don't understand the origin of "UNIX-like" as a term.

            See also: POSIX

            Interesting fact: Mac OS X and the Windows NT kernel are both certified POSIX compliant, but Linux is not. Although LInux is mostly POSIX compliant.
          • Accutron, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Haha! I got you to read this far.
    • MeltedUFO, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5OS X is based off of Nextstep (I believe) which is based on BSD which was originally based on Unix V6. Linux is a seperate creation.
  • astrosmash, on 10/10/2007, -4/+35Dead aspx page.
    http://duggmirror.com/apple/Apple_Bootcamp_gets_better
    • championchap, on 10/10/2007, -2/+28Oh my ***** it worked!
      I'd given up on duggmirror recently.
    • shahineo, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1my site should be serving that page again.
  • HUKI365, on 10/10/2007, -0/+29All of these features (except the tabs on the Bootcamp control Panel) have been in since Bootcamp 1.3.
    • etandrib, on 10/10/2007, -4/+11I also think what is funny is how Apple is just making Windows more like OSX… basically it would save us a lot of trouble if MS just released windows as a small runtime (similar to Classic) and we could just virtually use all of our Windows programs and games on any platform we want… oh, I guess that is what Parallels and VM Ware do. I think Windows is slowly dying. This is just the beginning of an overly slow and painful death.
      • shawnz, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9Yeah, there's an idea. In fact, every operating system should just be released as a small runtime.

        ....i'll wait until you spot the flaw in that logic.
        • jsebrech, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8Except that windows would only really be missed for its API's, not for all the "features" it provides. If the windows API didn't have such a large set of apps developed for it, it would be a niche OS.
        • SJKat, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5If black was white, it would be white, you idiot.
        • senatorpjt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1If you're implying that you need at least one operating system, it's not true. You can run a computer with no operating system, just think of playing games on a Commodore 64. All you need is a kernel that provides a standard system-level API, the operating system could be pretty much hardware-independent. (e.g, when creating a linux distribution for a new architecture, most of the porting work is the kernel. The rest is just recompiled)
        • shawnz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1jsebrech: the only reason i'm *not* using mac or linux is for the features it provides (mainly active directory and ACLs, but also due to its familiar interface)
          senatorpjt: you don't *need* an operating system, but it's generally a better idea than including every driver for every hardware with each application.
    • guyinthechair, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5No they haven't. The keyboard backlighting in my MBP is new.
      • fr34k5h0w, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The backlighting on my MBP has worked since 1.3 I think. But the iSight just started working in 1.4 .
  • terminalpariah, on 10/10/2007, -8/+1So, Dvorak thinks that Microsoft is working on their own, branded PC (they HAVE launched one in India). If they do go ahead with this, then Boot Camp becomes a problem for them, because it infringes on their hardware sales. I wonder if we'll see Vista patches that break it?
    If they don't, then shouldn't they work with Apple to make Boot Camp even better? Maybe we'll see Vista as a built-to-order. :)
    • Sandtiger, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5I'd say that it affects their hardware sales plans NOT infringes on them. When you say infringe you imply that they have a right or rule to those sales. I'm sure thats what Microsoft thinks but thats not a legal right.
      • terminalpariah, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Of course you are correct. You'll have to excuse me, I was out drinking last night.
    • aryayush, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1They haven't launched any branded PC in India.
  • Tack122, on 10/10/2007, -8/+5I hope he doesn't get in trouble for that.
    • aeiou, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Why would he get in trouble? He's still using windows, just on a Mac. Microsoft has to love bootcamp, as it just gives them more hardware that they can run on.
      • enicholas, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5It also allows potential MacOS converts to try it essentially risk-free -- they can get a Mac, and if they decide they don't like MacOS, can just run Windows. But the much greater likelihood is that they'll realize they don't really need Windows anymore.

        If I were Microsoft, I'd be terrified of people being able to easily and safely compare Windows and MacOS.
        • therightclique, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3nobody.. ahem. NOBODY is terrified of people switching to MacOS. it's a suitable operating system for a very small group of people, but to the rest of us, just comes off as a lot of *****. they've got great style and design, but otherwise, there is NO good reason to switch. vista has many problems, but XP is still going strong and MacOS can't hold a candle to it.
    • zongamin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1why would he? you realise that microsoft is a software company don't you
  • Lockhart, on 10/10/2007, -14/+7He seems to post quite a lot regarding Apple-related stuff.

    Related posts:
    OMG, Safari for Windows?
    Steve and Bill
    Apple Commercial on Vista
    Why Cingular?
    Rational Commentary on the iPhone
    Thoughts on the macworld keynote
    • mercurysquad, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2so?
    • chris1out, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2He said he used to work in the Mac division at Microsoft...so I think he has a reason to talk about Apple
  • ftbl52, on 10/10/2007, -14/+9It's PCs.
  • ozydingo, on 10/10/2007, -6/+125Volume icons and non-detailed mention of "a lot of new functionality"? I mean, I don't want to complain, but did anyone else find reading this kind of pointless? (Not a mac hater, in fact love my mac pro, but reading this just seemed something of a let-down)
    • rjcarr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I think the volume and eject buttons were gravy ... he was mostly impressed with the driver CD. One driver install covers all drivers ... very nice compared to what others offer.
    • vagarach, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3He loved it, and I didn't. You can't just install a single driver anymore! I had to remove the keyboard driver, and when keyremapper didn't work, I had to wait for 30 minutes while it went and reinstalled every single driver. A nice menu maybe with the default to install all would be much better.
      • jweatherley, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Take another look at the driver CD that Boot Camp creates for you. If you disable autorun, you will see a folder called 'Drivers'. Take a look inside. The one you were looking for would be /Drivers/Apple/AppleKeyboardInstaller.exe.
    • Vicujozobenaxod, on 10/10/2007, -6/+3I am a Mac hater, and I think it was a pointlessly short blog. Yeah it's nice to have something like that, but if I'm paying Microsoft's shakedown fee for a copy of their OS, I sure as hell am not going to throw it next to a second OS that also costs money. Open source or bust.
  • acu8509, on 10/10/2007, -5/+8the only problem is that the volume and eject bezels on XP/vista kill yor FPS for a few seconds if you accidently activate them during a game. Ive done it on more than a few occasions. if your not a careful it will get you pwnt.
    • Xenogis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Hehe. Not for me. What computer you have?
    • vagarach, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Me neither, on this macbook pro the only thing that happens is that you see the onscreen display flicker for a bit and then disappear.
  • adz999, on 10/10/2007, -14/+8Less than 50 diggs and dead, now lets sit and wait for the Microsoft bashing "..ASP this" "IIS that" "Microsoft sucks" etc etc
  • akhomerun, on 10/10/2007, -4/+19why would you get a pc laptop when you don't lose the benefits of running windows as well, especially with boot camp coming out of beta for leopard's release. Especially since the macbooks don't really have a large premium over other core 2 duo notebooks.

    microsoft publicly supports boot camp anyway, they still get to sell copies of windows to people, and instead of selling it for the OEM price to apple, they sell it to the people at the retail price. They (sort of) benefit from it, although I'm sure a lot of people don't ever bother running windows again when they switch to using macs.
    • bovox, on 10/10/2007, -16/+10I switched to a Mac last year after a decade of using Windows. Last month I switched back to Windows. Why? Hardware. If you buy a Mac you're locked into the Hardware and Software. If you buy a PC you're locked into only the Software. Through component upgrades you can easily make incremental hardware upgrades over the years -- significantly increasing the lifespan of the machine. Whereas with a Mac you have no control over hardware choice. Mac's reach obsolescence significantly faster than PC's since you cannot upgrade its components. Therefore you are forced to buy a new $1500 Mac every couple of years just to keep up with PC that could be upgraded to the same level of performance for $500.
      • themoors, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3This is true for all models except to mac pro, which has plenty of upgrade options.
      • WiseWeasel, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12Note that the parent is talking about laptops. All laptops have very limited upgradability, so Macs are no different from PCs in this regard. Also, if you get a Mac Pro, everything is upgradable except the motherboard. Since you're pretty much getting a new computer when you swap the mobo anyways, it's not that big of a difference either. Regardless, I will agree that Apple is not targeting the hobbyist market, so they are probably not your best option if something like a motherboard upgrade is important to you.
      • rabbitracer, on 10/10/2007, -5/+15can this argument please die, the whole no upgrade argument is so ***** over and bs, show me one laptop where you can upgrade almost anything beyond the ram and maybe, maybe the hard drive, so in laptops...mac and pc the same for upgradeability, now lets look at an all-in-one pc, upgrades? i still haven't even really seen anything on the market similar to the imac in way of an all in one pc with integrated screen and what not, especially not one with full upgradeability, ok now lets move to towers, on a pc i can upgrade virtually everything, though it's a bit of work if i say need a new motherboard and/or processor, but essentially yeah i can upgrade those in the same box that i origionally had, so equivelent? mac pro i can upgrade.....just about the same as i could with any other pc, videocard check, harddrives check, ram check, various peripherals sure, hell if i really wanted to i could probably upgrade the processor/motherboard if i checked the internet for a bit. so all in all there is virtually no difference in the upgradability of a mac to a comparable PC.
        • RapeApe, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0You've never head of the Asus C90. Also normal folks ain't putting down money for a Mac Pro.
      • akhomerun, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3i don't believe you. i don't believe you ever switched to mac. if you believe the garbage you said, you are just outright lying that you bought a mac.

        mac laptops are just as expandable as PC laptops. the mac pro is just as expandable as pc desktops, and contrary to what you are saying, a $500 PC won't get you far, and won't get you specs that are anywhere near as good as the iMac. So the only two models of macs that aren't as expandable as PCs are the iMac and the Mac Mini - which is as expandable as any other mini-itx sized PC anyway.

        upgradeability is for hobbyists. you realize that normal people, IF they get upgrades, have to pay for someone to install it? eventually, they might as well just get a new PC. Why do you think Microsoft sells the bulk of its Windows copies through preinstalled copies on new computers? No one in their right mind would pay for a new version of Windows because it just means more bloat and bugs, while people line up to buy new copies of Mac OS.
        • Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"the mac pro is just as expandable as pc desktops"
          Due to the choices Apple made about connectors, ports, OS, and IO subsystems... no, not even close.
      • BEDrocko, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Just in case you haven't realized bovox... "Upgradeability" isn't a selling point for most any OEM PC manufacturer... the extremely vast majority of computer users don't give a ***** that you can actually open up your PC and incrementally upgrade it... in fact, from a business point of view, Apple is avoiding a lot of customer service issues by making Macs fixed hardware. Not to mention that this point is the exact reason why Apples (running either Windows or Mac OS) are considerably more reliable than their competition.
    • paOol, on 10/10/2007, -8/+7because Thinkpads own.
    • Resiroth, on 10/10/2007, -6/+0Because bootcamp splits your hard drive your processing power and your ram. GG.
      • jads, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2are you from the past..?
      • BEDrocko, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1LOLz ummm, no Resiroth, it doesn't have to... unless you want to actually use a reliable filesystem instead of FAT or NTFS(lolz) for everything
  • KriLL3.2™, on 10/10/2007, -17/+7There is a huge crowd out there that prefer to make their own computers, it's a certain connection you get to your PC when you yourself buy all the parts and assemble them, MACs aren't nearly as upgradeable. I can understand the viewpoint of non technical people wanting an OEM computer, but why would anyone that knows what OEMs put into their machines want to get one? HP computers got so many refurbished and downright used parts it's scary, and they're far from alone in playing that game, If your client isn't technical and you void your warranty by opening the case, why not stick garbage in there?

    There are ups and downs with everything, but one thing is certain: If you do your research and got the knowledge needed, a self assembled PC only contains parts you want, and you can swap em out at leasure.
    • adz999, on 10/10/2007, -3/+15I think this large crowd you speak of are called novices, every man and his dog can "build" a computer, but when you work in IT and do these sorts of things day in day out, there comes a time when you want things to just work, im not saying Macs are the answer for everyone but myself i find that after a long day fixing windows based computers i love to be able to do everything i need on an OS that doesn't crash or have crazy errors and page faults etc
      • KriLL3.2™, on 10/10/2007, -9/+2Windows doesn't have crazy errors and page faults unless you're a novice.

        Seems any comment with the slightest negative content towards apple in an apple digg story is automatically dugg down, odd...
        • macbookpromat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I believe this is what that flowchart was talking about...

          Oh Snap!!
      • JohnFrum, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4"...and page faults etc"

        I'm thinking you don't understand what a page fault is.
      • therightclique, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1you definitely don't repair computers day in and day out if that's all you think of windows. every repair tech i know that runs windows NEVER has any problems that are caused by simply running windows. the fact that you even mentioned "page faults" shows that you're lying.
    • xornor, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9In my university's computer engineering program we actually built computers, (designed and wired 8 bit cpus, designed and built i2c controllers etc). "making computers" as you put it, is no more complicated than programming a vcr these days (probably easier). it can be interesting a few times for someone who has never done it, and you can get better quality parts, but it does get old quick, and when you get older it seems like a big waste of time (much like trying to get some crazy new video card/mobo working in linux). running mac osx, with vmware fusion and practically any guest os i want is the only way to go imho.
      • DaffyDuck, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Agree. I used to be into the build-your-own-computer deal but I grew up. Also, now I have a job and the money to afford what I want.
    • toetagger, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8I would have built my MacBook Pro myself if I could have, but I couldn't so I bought one.
      There's a huge crowd out there that doesn't build computers.... and they also want the dang thing to work... thus, Mac.
    • WiseWeasel, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3I think you overstate the market for people who want to build their own computers. Computers are so popular now, that more than half of households own one; and when you look around, there's no way even a tenth that many are inclined or capable of such a feat... It probably reaches down below 1/100th...
    • rabbitracer, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4i've built my own pc's for about 9 years now and you know what i don't ever see doing it again, considering a can buy a mac pro and upgrade most anything until something truly new comes around as far as processor speed and such, i see no need for building my own PC from scratch, as hell the only thing a mac pro takes out of the process is that i don't have to attatch a motherboard and processor to the tower and install the heatsink....wow i'm missing out on a lot of upgrading.....
      • therightclique, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2yes, but you could build your own pc for much much less than a mac pro.
        • msgyrd, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Not by much. The two CPUs alone in the current MacPro would cost you ~$1,500 on Newegg. Add in the costs of a similar looking case (lian-li would be the closest equivilant, and that'd be at least $150), a mobo, RAM, drives, power supply, graphics card, and an OEM copy of Windows, and you're basically paying the same price minus assembly costs.

          But talking through your ass and being a blatant troll feels good, doesn't it?
        • BEDrocko, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1this isn't the 90s Mr. TheRightClique ... oh wait is that name because right click is missing on a mac? /sarcasm
  • hdtv3, on 10/10/2007, -9/+5He probably said that because he's been using Vista and he knows how annoying it can be.
  • DaveClarkOne, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2Dvorak is irrelevant these days --a lot of white noise, really.
    • KriLL3.2™, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6He's quite funny if you just don't take him seriously.
    • Subcranium, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yeah, but he was funnier 20 years ago. It's not his fault. How someone can be a columnist for 20 years and still remain relevant is beyond me. Only a few people can manage the trick.
  • kris33, on 10/10/2007, -7/+5Death kISS
  • adz999, on 10/10/2007, -11/+1I like cheese
  • JuyLe, on 10/10/2007, -15/+11He is still using windows. Why bother ?
  • TeleCarlos, on 10/10/2007, -15/+10Well.. I only plan on getting macs anyway... because they are so awesome that I don't need to defend them. Ah, the good ol days , me re-installing drivers, trying to get viruses out, modding the OS for better performance in the studio... how I miss them! XP was so awesome.... for someone who didn't have a life. Nerds!!! Go buy cheap stuff, that's what matters to you, so go on, pirate some more, I can afford to buy the good stuff now so , see ya.
    • KielKilla, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4"I don't need to defend them." "(Then a rant defending them)" = OXYMORON
      • meatmcguffin, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Uh...that wasn't a rant defending macs, it was a rant attacking windows
        • therightclique, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1which is a stupid ***** rant.
    • aliguana, on 10/10/2007, -6/+4that just about sums up what makes Mac fanboys look like total wankers to the rest of the world. Enjoy spending your Daddie's money on your new status-symbol
      • DaffyDuck, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Umm, don't you understand that when he was younger he was relying on daddy's money and had to go the cheaper route. The suggestion here is that now he's making his own money and can afford a better computer.
  • cazbot, on 10/10/2007, -15/+51"MACs aren't nearly as upgradeable."

    Oh my gosh. Just because Apple is the only retailer out there to offer a line of modular computers doesn't mean they don't also offer an entire line of desktop and laptops that are just as upgradable as any PC ever (see the Mac Pro). They have offered computers like the Mac Pro for a long time now. I've been upgrading my old sawtooth tower since 1998 for cripes sake, and today it is essentially equivalent to a top of the line G5 when that processor was discontinued. Really, I'm getting tired of that old "macs aren't as upgradable" canard. Why are people so confused by this?
    • codywalton, on 10/10/2007, -6/+10True, but upgrading mac is harder, at least in my experience. Several years ago I needed to upgrade my old PowerbookG4, so I decided to go with a G5 tower for the upgradeability. Two years later I had maxed out the ram, and tried out the absolute best ATI and Nvidia cards that were compatible with my model, and I was very unimpressed with the results. I ended up just buying a new Macbook Pro, and resigning myself to fact that I will probably have to buy a new laptop every 2-3 years. I still love my macs, but PCs are more easily upgradable, at least from a hardware point of view (drivers... there's a different story).
      • fanclerks, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You mean kind of like any other standard homebuilt PC? Any computer that's a few years old you'll eventually run into a roadblock with upgradability. I still build my own desktop typically and if I have a gap of 6 months or a year between upgrades, I will have to upgrade the motherboard to support the latest and greatest video card or CPU. It's just the way that the industry is.
    • xornor, on 10/10/2007, -7/+25because most people are used to crappy disposable dells and are too blinded by cost to care about quality.
      • samuel514, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6100% ***** true
      • r00tus3r, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1What the ***** do trendwhore apple fan boys know about quality?
    • Goatman, on 10/10/2007, -15/+5Dells have the same quality as any of the Macs....
      • archer75, on 10/10/2007, -10/+4True, but apple has better marketing so people are willing to pay tons of money for a mac compared to a PC and think they have better hardware.
        • SATURN, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3More importantly, they have better software. The better hardware is just a bonus.
    • archer75, on 10/10/2007, -9/+11The mac pro isn't for the home user. It's a workstation. And you can't grab any off the shelf video card for it. It has to be a mac edition card that supports EFI and apple has to provide the drivers. It also uses funky ram that is expensive. You can't replace the video card in any of the macs targeted at home users and are limited to a single hard drive. Can't buy a new motherboard for them anywhere.
      So yes, they are certainly not as upgradable.
      • aristotle0dude, on 10/10/2007, -5/+4Funky ram? Do you mean, quality ram that can be had fairly cheaply from various vendors online? Just because you cannot throw in any old junk ram, it does not mean it is non-standard. That cheap ass ram you put in your motherboard is what is funky.

        Neither home or business users give a crap about upgrading the gfx card or motherboards. The "geeks" like you are not the average joe.
        • Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4The Mac Pro RAM is no more "quality" than standard desktop ram is "junky".
          The Mac Pro is a workstation, so therefore it has workstation RAM: slower, but more stable and safer.
          Desktops are... well, desktops, so therefore they have desktop RAM: faster, but without the security.

          It has nothing to do with quality -- only purpose.
      • fanclerks, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Just because the iMac only fits one hard drive internally doesn't mean you're limited to one drive. There are these amazing things called external drives! Hell, they even make enclosures that you can put any drive you choose in it. It's crazy isn't it?
        • pyrates, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I'd prefer the upgrade ability and expandability that a PC offers. Their's a reason why they have 95% of the market. I can build exactly the kind of PC I want. With Apple I have to choose either a small pc that I can't use for gaming because I can't use a good graphics card with it, a midrange computer where I can't use my current monitor with, or a high end computer that costs too much that only works with certain graphic cards. This is why Apple needs competitors who can put out Apple clones. They of course will be lower in price since Apple never does well with competition.
    • Noobist, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9i own a MacPro, it's not all that upgradable, what about replacing the cpu? and there are just a few graphics cards to choose from...
      • yabos, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1You can upgrade the CPU just fine. Remember the guys at anandtech or whatever put the Xeon quad core chips in place of the 2x dual core Xeons that were in there.
        • xspinkickx, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2they had to unsolder the old cpus out and replaced them and resolder the new quad cores into the mac pros. where as you flip a lever, remove cpu, insert new cpu, push lever to locked position. You tell me whats easier unsoldering and re soldering 100+ pins or pushing a lever on the socket. How many people are comfortable unsoldering and resoldering a cpu.

          Not to mention custom built PC is overclockable.
        • vanden9, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I think you can you near any pci x16 card as long as there drivers for it...What the hell could you upgrade a 8 core cpu to...
        • xspinkickx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1ok digg me down I am wrong the mac pros do use sockets, its only the macbook pros, macbooks and the imacs sans the 24" version use the ball grid array cpus.
    • Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7...because the fact of the matter is that the Mac Pros, while upgradeable, actually *aren't* as upgradeable as non-apple PCs.

      In fact, this is one of the *key features* of the Mac (or, more properly, of OSX): they limit what you can put into the machine so that they don't have to worry about supporting every last inane bit of hardware out there.

      In only features PCI-Express slots, severly limiting what you can put inside it, and even sticking to PCI-E cards, what works is limited. Putting a non-apple-sold gfx card in a Mac Pro can give you one hell of a headache, for instance. They also lack many of the internal risers, headers, connectors and whathaveyou which are legion on non-apple motherboards -- the value of which an be argued, but which still makes these PCs more upgradeable than Apple's.

      ...and while I haven't looked into it, my gut feeling is that the choice of processors you can put in a Mac Pro, and still have it work, is fairly limited as well, unlike the options you'd get if you went with a Windows/Linux-targeted PC.
      • msgyrd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I kinda agree, but they also support two different architectures which is something Windows can't do. OS X runs well on both the PPC platform and the x86 platform. I would argue that their hardware support is broader, just not as deep into certain hardware like graphics cards.
    • digitul, on 10/10/2007, -6/+5macs are no where near as upgradeable as pc's. macs are for people that want something shiny and pretty, not people that actually want control over what's inside their system
      • fanclerks, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2So you mean the 95% of the computer using population out there? Thanks for agreeing with us! Also, I just want to add for all of those people out there, I've used Windows since 386s were out and running 3.1. I've always homebuilt my own desktops. I also do play some games on computers, so I am a part of that slim 5% of computer gamers. As much as we'd like to think we're a big part of the industry, we're not. The majority of people only play Solitaire as a "game" on their computers. The rest is surfing the web, office applications, and some digital media manipulation.
    • aliguana, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4I think they mean AFFORDABLE Macs aren't upgradable.
    • jicon, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Aside from paying a significant sum to purchase a mac that is not upgradable- RAM and HDD, and realizing most of the budget level machines (minis and macbooks) only utilize integrated graphics... what really gets my goat are the tricks utilized to get those machines to those tiny form factors...
      The first Mac mini includes an onboard video card, a whopping 32MB Ati card, BUT IT IS UNDERCLOCKED to limit the heat... Well guess what? Try and run DVI at 1600x1200 on a videocard underclocked out of spec. You limit what DVI-D displays can actually utilize the DVI connection because the output is not to industry spec..

      The new iMacs were found to contain the same trick... UNDERCLOCKING the GPU to conserve heat dissipation. Boot in to Windows? Guess what? the machine runs significantly hotter as the GPU is not underclocked.

      Additionally, 80% of their line utilize non user upgradable LAPTOP CPUs. Why not put a desktop CPU in the mini or iMac? Once again, heat concerns. Of course, you now have a limited FSB to deal with, but depending on what you do I suppose, that may or may not matter.

      Here's hoping to some significant upgrades to the Mac Pros and GPUs in the next update.
      • dippyskoodlez, on 10/10/2007, -5/+2You're an idiot.

        GPU clocks are set in the bios.

        Numbnuts.
        • msgyrd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4They are? I was pretty damn sure GPU clock speed was set on the firmware of the card (hence being able to buy overclocked cards from manufacturers. The PCI-Express clockspeed is set in the BIOS/EFI, but thats an entirely different discusssion.
        • Teej, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Macs don't have BIOS...numbnuts.
  • FrankStiltner, on 10/10/2007, -10/+5I have noticed that the people who are late are often so much jollier than the people who have to wait for them.
  • SirBotchness, on 10/10/2007, -12/+4yea except for that darn right click on the notebooks.
    • P373Y, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13two fingers=rightclick
      • Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1...and how do you perform a left+right-click?
        • DaffyDuck, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Why would you want to? I've used windows for 17 years and still use it every day at work and can't think of anything that needs both clicked at the same time.
          • Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Opera, for one, along with various 3D- and design software.
            They use RMB as another meta key (along with ctrl/alt/shift) which changes the function of the LMB.
            Games, or anything else where you might want to do two actions at the same time (one for each button).

            Those are off the top of my head -- if I went through my software library and checked, I'd probably find more.

            Admittedly, none of these *require* both buttons at the same time -- you can always rebind the functions to something else -- but it's very neat to have, and the RMB+LMB combo is *very* fast.
          • AceyS, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1If you are using your trackpad for 3d games or graphic design, you are doing something wrong.
          • Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1^^ Exactly.
    • catachip, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Yes, you are right. The right click on Apple laptops is great, isn't it? Just click with two fingers on the track pad. I love it, thank you for mentioning it.
      • therightclique, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1seriously. what the ***** is a trackpad?
    • bl4cklight, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2As a previous "PC" notebook user, and now a happy windowsXP-on-a-macbookPro user, i must say that the trackpad on the MBP is the best experience i had, ever.
      The drivers are a little better under OSX... but still, they are getting better all the time.
  • loper, on 10/10/2007, -8/+24The author doesn't understand how apple can include all the drivers on 1 CD? Is he an idiot? He doesn't realize that 1 company makes all the computers that boot camp will run on? If windows was installed on only 3-4 different models of computer made only by MS I would hope they could somehow figure it out as well...

    /sarcasm
    • awhiteflame, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5He's not comparing Apple to Microsoft, he's comparing Apple to PC OEM's.
    • WiseWeasel, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4PC OEMs could also do driver release disk images for their various models of computers. With their larger variety of models and component options, it would be a bit more of a challenge, but definitely not impossible. Note that in the Mac OS, these types of driver updates are typically pushed through the automated Software Update feature, as point releases to Mac OS X, so this is really only a workaround for Windows' lack of usability. Apple is very sensitive to usability issues, since they are used to controlling the entire customer experience, and so it's not surprising that they were the ones to first start releasing Windows driver update in this manner. Other OEMs just assume that Windows is unusable... : P
  • Phatlip012, on 10/10/2007, -5/+4http://duggmirror.com/apple/Apple_Bootcamp_gets_better/
  • sych0, on 10/10/2007, -15/+24That whole "article" sucked. There was nothing interesting. "HAY GUYZ!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOOTCAMPZ R FUN!!!!!"
  • berfmurret, on 10/10/2007, -4/+15now if apple would only reimplement that dropped 'quickboot' feature i WILL only buy macs from here on out.
    • wizzfizz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0They were planning to do a 'quickboot' but quickly realised the instability issues that would come up with so many people running Parallels or Fusion on their Bootcamp partitions. I'm afraid you're not going to see this feature unless someone comes up with a smart solution.
  • PoohBear88, on 10/10/2007, -5/+13Apple is big because they set a trend.

    I'm not saying that they aren't good machines; they definitely are. But carrying around a macbook pro is starting to be a new starbucks cup.
    • KielKilla, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7They sell an identity.
      • Mortal300, on 10/10/2007, -6/+2that is very true...carrying a macbookpro is like the new respectable thing when walking thru starbucks...its like u have coffee in one hand and macbookpro in the other...ur set.....according to society's stupid manipulated standards
    • spargett, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Interesting point, and think there's some truth to that. But then again, you don't see people with Microsoft stickers on their cars.
    • msgyrd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I don't care that everyone else is buying them to look trendy, I just love the form factors and the operating system, and they are usually roughly the same price. The laptops are also well constructed; they feel solid in your hands and don't flex or creak like cheap PC laptops.
  • peterinjapan, on 10/10/2007, -6/+10Heh, I am a PC developer (we are the company doing all those PC dating-sim games from Japan), and do the majority of our work on Macs of many sizes and shapes. I don't hate my work when using Macs.
  • vertinox, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Huh? My old 1.3 boot camp did this as long as installed the drivers.

    Though... Its still a bitch to eject a disc in pure dos mode.
  • banerfee, on 10/10/2007, -9/+3You know, I've always wondered - if a Macbook only has one mouse button, how do you right-click when you're running Windows on it?
    • glitch47, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1Apple Mouse Utility:
      http://www.geocities.com/pronto4u/applemouse.html
    • Jeffler, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Using two fingers on the touchpad, if I'm not mistaken. I may be wrong though, I'm not a mac user (yet).
    • maexus, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7Command+Click or Two fingers on the trackpad + Click. Or you can buy a two button mouse. Honestly, how are people still confused by this?
    • vagarach, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Yes, the touchpad + click option in mac is just the default in windows.
    • DaffyDuck, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Tap on the trackpad with 2 fingers. One of the fingers is already on the trackpad, you just have to drop the next finger down as well and tap. It's very easy actually.
      • blacklint, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Yup. Personally, I'd say it's way easier to use the two finger approach than have to try and hit the other button... I despise using the two-button Dell trackpads at school.
  • adammharvey, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5sadly i gave up on bootcamp went to vmware fusion. just never liked to reboot my mac.
    • supermanred, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Go back to bootcamp, and then install Parallels. That way you can run your bootcamp partition inside OS X with parallels, and if you need all the processing power and ram for windows exclusively, then you can reboot into the windows partition.
      • ub3rgeek, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2you can do that with VMWare Fusion too...
  • swrostmore, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3Boot camp destroyed my hard drive partition, now not only can I not run windows, osX also kernel-panics twice as often.
    • guyinthechair, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7Then you sir, are an idiot. 1: Backup your Library folder, and reinstall OSX. 2: Try not to ***** up the easiest partitioning program in the world. 3: When installing windows, don't delete the FAT partition and make a whole new one. Instead, just copy over it and format it as NTFS.
      • swrostmore, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1***** - the reason I know that my drive partition is ***** is because Boot Camp (" the easiest partitioning program in the world") REFUSES TO PARTITION MY DRIVE - I've wiped/reinstalled OSX multiple times and it is still *****.
        • guyinthechair, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Then it's your hard drive, not your partition. Partitions are virtual, not hard coded into your hard drive.
    • supermanred, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2You kernal panicked os x and ***** up windows? Dude, its like the easiest thing to install. You mustve done something REALLY wrong. Try again, reinstall OS X and then bootcamp and install Vista, the whole thing should take you under an hour and a half.

      • swrostmore, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1what I did REALLY wrong - updated to bootcamp 1.4 from 1.3, which worked perfectly
    • clyde2801, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Bootcamp raped my mother, and killed my father...
  • jerfoo, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2bootcamp 1.4? How 'bout some 64-bit drivers!?
    • vagarach, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Why not just wait? If you really need 8GB of RAM then use linux or os x, 64bit windows isn't exactly mainstream yet.
      • therightclique, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1they sell several systems AT best buy with 64 bit vista. it's getting there. it sucks, but it's getting there.
  • KayinAngel, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8hold on... so his reasoning for thinking that Apple has become the best PC OEM is because of icons that appear when you hit volume and eject ?

    don't get me wrong, i love macs as much as anyone should, but that's a pretty weak argument.

    also, for those perhaps unfamilliar, it would be nice (or at least expected for a 600+ dugg article) should go into a bit more detail then just "new is the Bootcamp control panel... Which gives you a lot of new functionality.". That just seems lazy.

    i think this hints that no one really actually reads the articles linked from digg, but just digg based on the headline and short comment.
    naturally "Microsoft employee blogs: 'I think all my future PCees will be Macs.'" is enough to warrant clicks, it's a shame it's really not worth it.

    fail for being lame
  • 12Iceman, on 10/10/2007, -4/+5My next laptop will probably be a Mac Pro, but I am going to continue building my own desktops.
    • meatmcguffin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13Good luck carrying that around :P
    • supermanred, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Go for it. I bought a Macbook. My next laptop will be a Macbook Pro as well. GREAT. Dont forget to get 2gb or more ram so you can run Windows Vista AND OS X simultaneously using your Bootcamp Windows partition in PARALLELS. The "Cohesive" mode is the coolest thing Ive ever seen. Windows startbar at the top and os x dock at the bottom and all applications co-existing nicely. I have windows apps in my OS X dock, well mostly games.
  • Bulldogge16, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9OK, really... I just got my first entry into the Mac world with a MacBook. Nothing too extravagant but I am really liking it, but come-on. The volume and eject graphics are "Beautiful"? This is supposed to be a reason why something is better than it's competition? Here is to hoping that I enjoy the benefits of my Mac and I will carry on to purchase something in the Mac world a little more "hardcore" that is capable of a lot more, but I really hope that I do not ever end up like one of these ridiculous fanboys on either side of the fence. And I continue to enjoy the features of both. Yes, I really do like Vista! It is a good OS and is continuing to get better. My Desktop kills the performance on any Mac (well at least one that wont cost you $10,000)
    Please could we keep to posting articles that have some substance. Where in Microsoft does this blogger work? The bloody stockroom? This was some ***** waste of time!
    • DaffyDuck, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3Well, the on-screen volume display on most PC's is jagged and looks like it was designed for a TV instead of a computer. I don't think he was making a big deal about it, just saying it looks nice. I think you are inferring more importance to this than the blogger intended there to be.
      • therightclique, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1i run my PC on a 42" 1080p tv, and nothing is jagged. its awesome. hooray for employee discounts.
  • KezG, on 10/10/2007, -5/+7I bought a white MacBook (the lowest £699 version, I'm not rich!) last week and it is my first ever Mac.

    I have to say; I ***** love it. I actually spend more time on here than my windows gaming machine upstairs. Surprisingly it even plays WoW quite well even in OSX.
  • narlzac85, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4I am now dumber from reading these comments and have lost more faith in journalism. I can't wait for classes to start again so I can talk about more important things that the fancy volume control glyphs on a laptop.

    PS. Tapping to click is perhaps my most hated 'feature' ever. Good idea but unintended clicking is something I hate. And those that say to get a 2 button mouse; The point of using a touch pad is that its attached to the notebook and a mouse isn't. So that's not a real solution. Not that I would ever abandon my 5 button mouse...
    • yeahbuddy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Tapping to click? What are you referring to? Right-clicking on a Mac is as easy as placing (resting) 2 fingers on the trackpad, and clicking the mouse button.

      Or you can also turn on a feature to tap on the mousepad with two fingers simultaneously (friggin simple) if that's what you are complaining about.

      BTW, a blog isn't really "journalism." It's just a guy who knows how to use the internet spouting off at the keyboard.

      • msgyrd, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I think he's referring to the MightyMouse on desktops which doesn't really "click". You have to tap your fingers because it determines a click by touch, not movement.
    • pixeldust, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0"I am now dumber from reading these comments and have lost more faith in journalism."
      It's a blog...

      "And those that say to get a 2 button mouse; The point of using a touch pad is that its attached to the notebook and a mouse isn't." You can set it up so when you have two fingers on the track pad your click is a secondary click, which is very convenient especially with two finger scrolling.
    • blacklint, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Wait... you don't tap to click on a Mac. At least I've never once seen people use that option (I had to open the trackpad preferences to see if it even existed). The nice way of doing a right click is to put two fingers on the trackpad, then press the button. It's really quite wonderful to use.
  • weedmonk, on 10/10/2007, -9/+0What lost one most iTards is that, Microsoft continues to win with BootCamp. Heck the price point per copy sold to a mactard vs. an OEM install is higher.
    • dippyskoodlez, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1And how are you factoring in the piracy?

      Especially compared to a 100% legit OEM base...

      I'd say its probably about even, or weighted on the OEM side...
    • supermanred, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5What's a Mactard? Someone who uses a superior Unix-based OS?
      • therightclique, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1no. there's nobody ANYWHERE that meets that description.
  • supermanred, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2Running Windows XP or Vista on my Macbook is a dream. All drivers on ONE CD with a single installation (for windows) and the Bootcamp software updates the drivers from Apple automatically. Best Windows PC I have ever owned is my Macbook. Too bad I spend so little time in Windows now that I have discovered OS X.
  • mdman, on 10/10/2007, -7/+3Great!
    Twice the price for half the functionality......
    • tucsonwc, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3twice the price of what? It is competitive pricing for 10X the functionality.
  • WudWar, on 10/10/2007, -10/+7If Macs are so damn great, why is bootcamp needed anyway?
    • therightclique, on 10/10/2007, -10/+4because mac users are generally quite stupid.
      • Table, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5What is your argument there? What do you back that up with? Because of simplicity? Is your argument that simplicity = stupid?

        I am an Apple user and I can do what Windows users can do. With less number of steps.
    • akhomerun, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5boot camp is needed to play games. that's it. that's literally the only reason I have windows installed on my mac. the vast majority of computer users don't play (non-flash) games on them.
    • jads, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/

      read
  • Memnochxx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I think the solution for the trackpad is not to use it, get a thinkpad, and use a trackpoint. There. A trackpoint and 3 mouse buttons. It's the best setup.
  • subtle, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3It's so tragic that this lameass article made the front page just because it said: OMFG Mac FTW!!!
  • sdlvx, on 10/10/2007, -14/+4***** macfags. The article consisted of

    "The volume glyphs look pretty."

    "New windows front end gives you lots of functionality."

    What the *****, there's like 3 options on the whole boot camp thing. Are you macfags this ***** stupid that as soon as you see something beyond drag and drop or checking boxes, that it impresses you?


    And what the ***** how is this one of the most dug stories? I think the volume thing is pretty gay. Who the ***** needs a giant translucent icon to take up half of your screen when you change the volume? It's HUGE! And then it makes that cumdrop sound when you change it (I know, my sister has a mac) which is the most obnoxious sound i have heard in my life.

    I swear I'm so tired of you macfags running around. Why don't you buy an OS that is actually coded, and not some ***** compilation of FOSS software and Jobs and fatass Woz jizzing over the iFace for a year because that's all they have to do is make things look pretty.

    DIE MACFAGS.

    If this retard is going to switch to OSX because of pretty volume controls and a watered down ***** windows utility, he's a dumb *****. I really don't care, because if most of the people in the CS field are this retarded, It's all going to be like a walk in the park for me.

    • sdlvx, on 10/10/2007, -8/+2Also, the whole "IM SWITCHING FROM PCeee" argument is a bunch of *****. This guy is obviously a macfag in disguise. Look at his related posts:

      Related posts:
      OMG, Safari for Windows?
      Steve and Bill
      Apple Commercial on Vista
      Why Cingular?
      Rational Commentary on the iPhone
      Thoughts on the macworld keynote
    • jads, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Wow. That's a lot of deep-seeded homoeroticism.

      "Why don't you buy an OS that is actually coded, and not some ***** compilation of FOSS software and Jobs and fatass Woz jizzing over the iFace for a year because that's all they have to do is make things look pretty"

      What exactly does this mean? Because it comes with apps like Apache, PHP and other FOSS included, or that fact it's foundations like with FreeBSD? If we want your opinion on coding, we'll toss you a peanut. I assume you consider Linux another OS that wasn't 'coded'? After all, it's open source isn't it?

      You're obviously an Apple hater, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion - but if Apple isn't your thing, then why are pretty much all your comments either left on Apple stories or Mac vs PC arguments?

      You need to go back into the gene pool, you're not quite done yet.
  • qwerty69, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I dugg this because Bootcamp is a good technology, but I hope nobody is implying that the drivers are perfect?

    Am I the only person to press Alt F4 to try and close an application only to have the Volume decrease instead.

    Apple a little more negative testing next time please.
  • CosbyKillah, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1i have always been a fan of having 2 OSs on one computer it is more efficient then spending twice the amount of money on 2 computers when you can have one computer run both windows and mac, simply put the idea is genius and the easier and less buggy the entire ordeal get the better
  • dragonopolis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Just because Steve Jobs is too damn stubborn to give one of the Largest Consumer Entertainment/Uses for a computing device (which is Gaming if you don't know) doesn't make it a bad OS just a "very good narrow minded " OS.

    So it is nice that Apple at least gives it customers who do love gaming an option to install an OS that does give Gamers some love.

    Poor Stevey. If he only new the rush of adoption Macs would have if he supported Gamers on the hardware side (mid tier Pro or Very High Consumer model) as well as the software side (Give Developers Apple's version of a DirectX or OpenGL and give the game developers some love which in turn will give Mac users and Gamers who want to go to Mac but don't want to hassel with Multiple OSes some love also).

    Or maybe that is why Apple doesn't Support Gamers. The burden of all those switchers (assuming Apple did it right here folks) would put a poor strain on their hardware and even software development they prefer to just let Microsoft be the game OS and Apple can stay Small.
    • colincornaby, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Ummmm... OpenGL has been on the Mac since 1999. It was something that was pushed by : drum roll please : Steve Jobs.

      In fact, when Apple released OpenGL on the Mac, Steve Jobs brought a company called Bungie on stage, and they introduced a game called Halo, running on OpenGL, running on a Mac. I don't suppose you've ever heard of Halo?
  • Rileyper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2WAIT...so what the hell is the improvement
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