What is Digg?70 Comments
- kainewynd2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9From zaren:
* You can view the activity of dozens of computers at one time on one screen. Keep an eye on the little tykes in your school lab and make sure they're doing their homework instead of checking out teh pr0n.
* You can push software updates to any machine(s) on a list
* You can run reports to check what software / hardware is installed on any remote machine(s)
* You can sleep / shut down / reboot any machine(s) on a list without having to log into each machine individually
in addition to all the remote viewing / messaging / etc."
That is why you pay $300 for it. You cannot do this with Windows RDP - dmthomas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Yes, you're missing that remote desktop access is only one part of the application. What you're paying for is functionality similar to Microsoft Systems Management Server, i.e. software distribution to a large number of clients. There's also the management piece where you can see status of clients and perform tasks on them automatically. Oh and does Google Desktop allow you to search all the files on any number of machines simultaneously?
- thescraps, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Does anyone wonder what's at the bottom of a list of 'over 50 new features'?
Feature 48: 'Bevel of 'OK' button 10% more translucent.' - brianegge, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I wish they would do something like Microsoft Remote Desktop Protocol to speed up screen sharing. The aqua interface really bogs down the VNC viewer.
- pxa270, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I agree. Remote Desktop is one of the few areas where MS is way ahead of Apple. MS Remote Desktop is Seriously Fast. And if you're willing to replace a XP system dll with a SP2 beta version you can enable concurrent sessions on XP, which is really nifty.
Downloads here:
http://sala.pri.ee/terminal-server-patch/ - Dhalgren, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Here is Steve's comment's on RDP. He mentions that it is vulnerable to a man in the middle attack:
"And we're going to do one whole episode on Remote Desktop security and securing Remote Desktop because it's a really nice way for people who are interested in not using a third-party service like GoToMyPC or LogMeIn.com, for them to be able to access their machines. Microsoft has tried for years to make this secure. And they still haven't got it right. It is deeply encrypted. With XP you're using 128-bit RC4 encryption cipher. So it is extremely encrypted. It is, however, susceptible to a man-in-the-middle attack, like we were saying before. There are even freely available tools - this Cain & Abel tool has a Remote Desktop Protocol man-in-the-middle logging and interception capability that basically someone can sniff that traffic - actually can't sniff it. I need to be careful here myself. They have to actively modify the initial log-in dialogue to insert themselves in the middle. But these tools are available and are known. Then they are able to record everything you do with your Remote Desktop. Now, this is one of those deals where someone says, okay, c'mon, Gibson, you know, it's encrypted, it's secure, it's not susceptible to passive eavesdropping. Isn't that good enough? I have to say yes, probably it is."
The full show transcript is here: http://www.grc.com/sn/SN-016.txt
I was thinking that it was more flawed than this, but it is still an issue and keeps me from opening up and forwarding the RDP port on my computers. - sgirard, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12Apple includes the client part of Remote Desktop on all current OS X installs. It's just a check box to turn it on in the System Preferences => Sharing pane. The Apple Remote Desktop application is the client management part where all the good stuff is. That is what you are paying for.
Microsoft does this differently in that your clients have to be running Windows XP Pro ($300 at retail) for each client that you want to access via Microsoft Remote Desktop. Microsoft does have a nice Remote Desktop viewer application for Mac OS X that is a free download. It's great for controlling your Windows XP machines from your Mac. Very nice. http://www.microsoft.com/mac/otherproducts/otherproducts.aspx?pid=remotedesktopclient
I do agree with the above poster that Microsoft's approach results in a faster screen sharing experience. - zaren, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I've not used the Windows remote desktop software much, so I don't know if it can do this, but with ARD:
* You can view the activity of dozens of computers at one time on one screen. Keep an eye on the little tykes in your school lab and make sure they're doing their homework instead of checking out teh pr0n.
* You can push software updates to any machine(s) on a list
* You can run reports to check what software / hardware is installed on any remote machine(s)
* You can sleep / shut down / reboot any machine(s) on a list without having to log into each machine individually
in addition to all the remote viewing / messaging / etc. - mattyohe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6OSX already has a "free" version of a remote desktop software installed. Apple has implemented VNC in their product and it is (like Windows) available out of the box by just checking a checkbox.
Apple Remote Desktop 3 is an administrative product which is NOT MEANT FOR CLIENTS.
Windows Server 2003 has a similar Remote Desktop admin msc, but I do not believe it has nearly the feature set that remote desktop 3 has. - chigaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It doesn't say ARD is an innovation it says it incorporates 'Tiger' innvovations (Spotlight, Dashboard, Automator). Remote Desktop Control on the Mac has been around for years.
- sgirard, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6It will if you install a VNC server on your Windows machine. See http://www.realvnc.com/
- dioscaido, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Not to be a downer, but is remote desktop really 'innovation'? I'm glad they are improving it, and making their platform even more compelling, but it's not exactly groundbreaking.
- JoeWall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5konfabulator is ridden with bugs, bloated and is a memory hoag
spotlight is faster than googledesktop, it has smart folders and much more - RobGamble, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You can run a terminal server / remote desktop session from all versions of Windows if you download the RDP client from MS, for free. You can also run "rdesktop" on Unix, Linux and OSX, see http://rdesktop.sourceforge.net.
VNC is a great utility in a pinch, but remote X sessions are better and RDP better still. Citrix already implemented their awesome remote console services on Unix but I don't know if that technology has found its way into other derivative products like Apple's RD3.
As @zaren and others have stated, RD3 is more than remote terminal, but using a Citrix-like remoting technology instead of VNC-like remoting technology would be a massive improvement. - chigaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4They have different pricing models. On Windows this feature is only free as part of XP Pro which costs significantly more per seat than OS X. OS X includes the client end for free on any copy of OS X with a charge for the management end.
In our shop I suspect that the OS X pricing model is cheaper for us as we don't have pay a premium on each seat but for a small number of seats (like home use) the Windows model likely works out cheaper. - fungible, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Nobody said it was new, people. That's why it's Remote Desktop "3". Duh.
- dmthomas, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Let's not pretend that Microsoft invented Remote Desktop either. I believe Timbuktu was doing it way way back in the day. But it probably was really invented back in the UNIX days with remote X server capabilities.
Not to mention that this product != Remote Desktop. It does a lot more.
And it's the same way people get excited about all the new features in Vista that already exist in 10.4 and earlier. It's always good that a functionality comes to your platform regardless of who originally made it. KDE is a good thing for Linux, who cares that it attempts to emulate functionality of Windows, etc. - vandy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4since when did google get the credit for system metadata search? spotlight predates google desktop buddy
- dmthomas, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Isn't this site supposed to be about news? A release of a new version of anything that someone posts should be on the front page for some time.
- bmacmurphy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Yes, if you have VNC set up on the PC, ARD can control it.
- Chewie67, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8I've never understood why this is a $300 product? It's built in to Windows XP. I can use remote desktop to connect to any XP Pro system at my office as needed. Why must this be a $300 add-on for the Mac?
Am I missing something? - dipswitch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"Don’t want your admin tasks to be seen? No problem, turn on the new Curtain Mode to block the local user’s view of their desktop. This is perfect when you’re updating a public display. You’ll have full control of the system, but your work will be hidden from view."
Unless there's a VNC program running in the background, right? :) - evilempire, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The feature I really wanted was automatic install. If it works as advertised, it will make my life a lot easier when patches are released. I can set it to install them as soon as machines are reconnected to the network. As it stands now - I have to keep trolling ARD to see who has thier laptop connected.
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Chewie: You're missing the fact that Apple Remote Desktop is built into the OS just like MS RDP/Terminal Services is built into Windows.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2ARD is seriously good stuff. If you manage a good number of Macs, this app will save you lots of time if you bother to set things up correctly. All the new features are icing on the cake. ARD2 was solid, and now ARD 3 looks to be a must have for any Mac IT Admin.
We'll be placing an order this week. - systimax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2it was mentioned above..but does anyone know a faster way to connect to OSX? VNC is slow and even slower over ssh (even when i compress ssh)
Timbuc2 is just as slow.
Im looking for something like RemoteDesktop. Also a big factor is the way VNC deals with screen size and scrolling the host computer res.
thanks - Noren, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4From the ARD Tech Spec page:
"Encrypt all communications between Apple Remote Desktop 3 and client computers with 128-bit AES encryption, or disable encryption for data-intensive tasks." - skell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2sgirard: Thanks for that info. Now how about the other way around?
Can someone please tell me of a good way to connect to my Mac remotely from a Windows machine, besides VNC? Thanks (yes I'm a Mac n00b). - jeffburg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1they should make a basic version so that you can get help from friends and access your machine online and stuff
- msilverman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The feature doesn't work the way you expect...when you "close the curtain" the remote user will notice because their screen will be blanked-over. You can work on it without them seeing what you are doing, but they will have to sit there and stare at a blanked-out screen til you are done.
- algorejr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Apple released this new ARD because the old version DOES NOT run on the new Intel Mac's despite the hyperlink article stated above. I actually have an intel Mac and called Apple Tech support to confirm that the old version of ARD does not run on the intel Mac's. I tried to run it anyways to access my Apple Server and could not; prior to the new version being released, I was forced to run VNC.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"innovations such as"
When the OP goes on to say something like that....well, it's a bit inaccurate. - JamesGHill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is already a well established segment of the market, which means Apple wouldn't have much to gain by jumping in.
Speaking of which, while ARD is a decent product, there are better solutions out there.
James Hill - msilverman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Remote control is slow. Period. Anything that replicates the remote screen has to transmit a lot of data. Say you have a 1280x1024 screen at 24 bits of color depth, that's 3840 k in size (if my quick math is right), or about 3.8 MB of data...and that is just for the initial drawing. As stuff changes, more data has to be transmitted. Even over a high-speed connection, it's slow. You can reduce this by changing the color depth of the remote system to 4-bit greyscale and making sure the remote desktop doesn't have a fancy picture on it (Timbuktu does this, the new ARD might also), but even then you're still at 640 k for the initial draw...much faster but not instant.
Microsoft's remote desktop is different in that it doesn't try to merely replicate the remote screen, it actually opens up a remote "terminal" and the drawing commands are sent to be rendered on the guest computer...this is conceptually much different then ARD or Timbuktu or VNC, and it is a lot faster...but it is also not true remote control, you live in your own session and are not controlling a remote computer. Apples and oranges.
Hope this helps - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3true, the client software works on an intel mac... but if you try to load the admin app on an intel mac, it just crashes and wont open... And as far as functionality goes, the microsoft remote desktop doesn't really do anything except let you control the screen... with ARD, you can do some amazing things remotely, well beyond simply controlling the screen, such as install software updates, or run shell commands... and you can do these things on a whole lab of computers at once, where with microsoft remote desktop you can only use one machine at a time... also, if you use NetRestore for imaging, you can integrate it with ARD to automatically set computer name and ip address after imaging, so basically you image the machine, it reboots with the proper settings, and you don't have to change anything... microsoft remote desktop doesn't include much functionality over vnc, and vnc is free...
- jrbrewin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2overall, amusing that you buy this in either 10, or unlimited license amounts. I guess 10 is around the average size of an apple network.
- .mark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1ARD is a lifesaver. I manage 600+ clients at a school district across five different locations. I cannot even begin to express how wonderful this application is. And the new "behind the curtain" feature is something that I've been dreaming of for a long time. I cannot wait to be able to go in and work on a machine in the background without the user's knowledge.
- X111, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Yeah, clicking the link and reading what's there might help. Maybe they should pick a different title for the app, I didn't know either. I like the software management features, ofcourse I don't know how well it performs in the real world. More Apple in the business dammit!
- mattyohe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Kazbaeden-- That didn't appear to be your point. Your claim was that Apple innovated nothing and basically copied/rebranded and sold as their own.
I don't imagine anyone here needs you to educate them on the history of an idea.
You have to be a moron not to know that everything has influenced the creation of something new since the dawn of time. This is how innovation works. "Standing On The Shoulders Of Giants" - msilverman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0There's already something that does that -- it's called VNC, and it is free. There's also Timbuktu, which is faster and has more features (but it is commercial).
- mattyohe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Kazbaeden -- Stop it Stop it Stop it.
On Dash vs Konfab read here for the end all to this argument: http://daringfireball.net/2004/06/dashboard_vs_konfabulator
Spotlight was out before googledesktop search
Apple Remote Desktop and MS Remote Desktop are two different products completely. Apple's is an administrative suite that allows you to do some management on machines of OSX, Win, *NIX flavors on a network. MS Remote Desktop is a product built into XP is meant for sharing from one machine to another.
If you haven't used the product, or even clicked the link to read more about it, please stop commenting on things you don't know. - superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"I was trying to elicit a response. I got exactly what I expected."
I believe the term for that is "Troll". Congratulations on your "victory". Truly you are a "winner". - BARCHER, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0All I can say is that now my boss can spy on me while I am busy digging at the office.
- Kazbaeden, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I was trying to elicit a response. I got exactly what I expected.
Regardless, I've seen enough people here who believe ideas start and end with Apple that I think someone needs to give them a clue. - eggyacid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1will ARD remote control a Windows?
- jasqwerty, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Where do you idiots like sgirard buy stuff? Did Apple start selling copies of XP? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16837102062
- Chewie67, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"spotlight is faster than googledesktop, it has smart folders and much more"
And X1 is better than both of them, IMO. - crazydollhead, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Great app, we use it in our school
- Dhalgren, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5I don't own an Apple, just Windows and Linux boxes.
Unless you use RDP over a VPN or SSH, it doesn't have any good security built in. Keystrokes, and even mouse actions can be monitored by a malicious bystander. I was just wondering if Apple decided to do it right and build the security into the "ARD" instead of making the user secure it via a VPN, etc. If you want more info on the insecurity of RDP, check out Steve Gibson's Security Now! podcast: http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm - jicon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Good god. 739 diggs, and some of the comments here really make you wonder...
1. XP Home includes a remote desktop sharing ability, either thru the wizard to allow someone else control, or by using the built in netmeeting application (Type 'conf' at the run command)
2. XP Pro is needed for Remote Desktop in to a machine that doesn't actively open a shared session. For those complaining about cost of XP, A) no one pays more than the cost Apple's 18 month upgrade cost, and B) If you are using remote desktop in any fashion, you likely have lots of machines on your network, and are running a DOMAIN anyway... guess what? XP Pro is required to connect to an Active Directory Domain.
3. You can open multiple sessions using RDP, in fact there are power toys available so many are open in a web browser at once, controlling many machines, and in fact, it is possible to monitor activity in to a remote machine.
4. You can install software thru Remote Desktop, and if you are using Active Directory, you can automatically deploy updates and installations thru Group Policy.
This VNC interface used by ARC is slow, horrible over a slow network connection, and is in serious need of a speed improvement... then again, I'm starting to get used to the slower speeds of doing single tasked processes on a Mac (I respect the multithreading, but single app performance is lacking in OS X.
I see pcAnywhere 12 for Mac is coming soon though... maybe that will be a better remote desktop answer. -
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