What is Digg?43 Comments
- cannuck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I wonder if what the Wozniak really wanted to talk about Apple's propensity to limit the usefulness of an Apple product, for the user that is - in order to be a monopoly. For example, Apple's implementation of H.264 encoder and decoder (Quicktime 7 player) is still not compliant (and consequently doesn't carry the logo). More recently, Apple's new video iPod - where Apple reverse the normal position of the pins on the standard cord to output video from a camcorder - so one would have to go out and buy Apple's SPECIAL cord to out video from the video iPod - dumb and dummer. What's wrong with "making money the old fashion way - by earning it".
- orangetiki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This interview made me want to install OS 9 back into my computer. THAT was an OS! Just wish I had the programs to work on it again. Photoshop 6 was good enough. As for the apple programs, I don't know what to say. My parents use iLife all the time for their home movies and pictures, and it works fine. On a computer from 1997 no less. I have 10.3 in that G3. I think Apple, if anything, is missing the space between the professional and the lo end user. I mean how much can one company do? Hardware, software, networks, professional apps? Immagine Microsoft trying to build their own boxes, and then make programs for all these different styles of users. BUt as for programs that apple writes themselves such as DVD Studio Pro 2, That's a great program. Not to say apple hasn't laid a few eggs. I don't know. This interview makes me want to invterview him and explain his view more.
- dcipjr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Woz is brilliant; he really is the father of modern computers. Take the Apple II, which he designed from the ground-up. It did some pretty amazing things, like true plug-and-play -- for example, if you bought a printer card, drivers were included in a PROM on the card so you could simply plug in a printer and have it work. No driver installation. This was in the 1980s.
I love OS X...it's powerful, it looks great, and I enjoy using it. But I understand his criticisms of it and the software that comes with it. The original Mac was designed to have practically zero learning curve. You just sit down at it and start working -- it's intuitive, it gets out of your way and lets you do your work. The first computer I used was an original Mac. I was about five years old, but I didn't have any problem learning how to use it. My grandfather just showed me where MacPaint was, and I took it from there.
Woz is right. Apple has gotten away from that almost-magical level of usability. Maybe it's not their fault -- computers have grown more complicated with the rise of the Internet, and the Mac OS grew more complicated as well. Is there a learning curve to Mac OS X? Absolutely. It's not completely obvious what everything does, and where everything is. Of course, the same could be said for Windows.
Can Apple get back to basics and design a new OS from the ground-up that has that immediate usability of the Mac 128K? Should they? Will they? I think they can -- look at the iPod's user interface, Apple can still design an interface that has very little learning curve -- and maybe they should, because it would definitely set them apart from Windows. Let's face it, Windows and the Mac have grown closer and closer to each other. Maybe it's time for the Mac to abandon the desktop UI of old and find something totally new. But will Apple do this? Only Jobs knows... - blueice03, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Oh, and no, I don't think we will ever see a *legal* version of OSX on non-Apple hardware.
- ewingsquadron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I get the worst, worst software almost always from Apple."
Wow. - SectorNation, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Mercury, How does a complaint about someone trying to get free press have to do with someone's feelings being hurt??? Get a clue.
- robert3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"What's an example?
I couldn't give you an example. It happens just all the time. Over and over and over. "
Why doesn't he give an example of Apple software that is bad? Apple software always seems to be highly regarded by critics. Comparing it to Microsoft and AOL software? dang - longofest, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Woz is stuck back in the 80's... er... 70's
- doniguan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0sounds like he was just jealous that he's not working at apple anymore.
most of his criticism of the apple os was that it wasn't what it was when he was working there. But as someone who's used apples his whole life- osx is the best apple i've used yet. Much more user intuative.
I sense as little frustration between woz and jobs. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Can someone clarify his quote here:
"We want ours to sell for 50 cents. We want to get it around. We're willing to. You know, and some groups will say, hey, Brittany Spears, two bucks for my song. Fine, but the groups are pretty much artists and they don't get involved in the business. They don't have a very big participation in that decision of what it will sell for. It's the way things are structured and that's unfortunate."
Does this mean he is for a variable-price structure when it comes to online music downloads? - argyleipodder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i've only had a FEW issues with my mac, none of them software. i think woz, for all his initial development, has gotten stuck. it seems that while computers have gotten more intricate and complex, woz doesn't want to recognize it.
- HiddenLYNX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree with VR1000, stick to the same gui
I recently tried IE 7 beta, and it was driving me crazy trying to do anything because they moved too much stuff around, and yes, given its only mm away from where it used to be, the fact that its not where you look. Apple has kept pretty much to a similar format over the years. Themeparkphoto... wow, you musta done something wrong, my mini has crashed 3 times (all in one day) and that im highly confident was due to my nearly full 1gb CF card and a crappy card reader, something prolly got confused, my PC, ive had to reinstall at least 3 times since ive had my mac.
We'll just have to see where this takes us. I love watching this industry and thinking how their decisions will affect everything and watching to see how it turns out. - flanders, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Remember guys, Woz is an absolute perfectionist. No software created these days is going to match up to his level of satisfaction. Back then you created software much more slowly and at a much more detailed level. Think assembler code--also think most apps ran in less than 512k (I'm being generous here too). Woz was a fantastic hardware designer and I truly think the Apple he created is still a genius of a product but software development is another story especially in 2005. Most software is made at far too high a level and released way too fast to be what he's talking about.
- ursabear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0If Wozniak became the CEO of Apple, would that make him the iWoz?
- topper24hours, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I guess I just have issue with somebody saying "I couldn't give you an example. It happens just all the time. Over and over and over." Ummm... in my mind that would make it EASIER to give an example (unless you are just ranting straight out of your ass).
- jcollins, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I'll admit Apple keeps changing their UI with each iteration. Some applications more than others. However, I don't think he is being fair. iTunes, Safari, and iPhoto are some of the best, if not THE best, applications in their class. Frankly he should have coughed up a name of an application that he thought sucked.
- j_bellone, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4I don't understand how people can say that iTunes is "some of the best software in its class" that's totally *****. First of all, the only reason I use iTunes is because someone bought me an iPod (which, again, not the best player in its class either). If Apple is going to release software for Windows, they should be releasing software that does not crash, and actually works. I would rather use WinAMP than iTunes, and the only reason its still on this computer is because of the iPod.
No, the software isn't crashing becuase its Windows, its crashing because Apple does indeed write some of the worst software out there (as does Microsoft). What is the reason for this? Because the programmers are forced to meet the product release schedule, and it was someone's brainiac idea that the software needs to be a shiny new version for every new iteration of the iPod. We got iTunes 5 (which really did nothing new) and iTunes 6 within a 2 month period (because the Nano released, and then the 5G iPod). This is not good turnover, its ***** releases just to get the media blitz.
I have not owned a Mac before, simply because it does not suit my needs (I build my own computers, with custom cases, that look just as good as Apple's junk). I want a computer that works with software from the shelf at Best Buy (if need be), and I want a computer that works with games. Apple doesn't do it, plain and simple, and I don't understand why everyone holds them on a high regard simply because they are the underdogs here. The iPod isn't a good piece of hardware either, mine had to go back into the shop after less than 6 months of normal daily use because the hard-drive and battery died.
The new Apple machines are going to be INTEL PCs with some sort of TCPA chip on there so we can't use OSX on a normal Intel PC. There isn't going to be anything special about them anymore, but are they still going to be vastly better than buying a machine from Alienware? Or building your own? Absolutely not. I can downloading a flavor of Linux and get a nice shell replacement, and skin, and get the same thing I am getting (actually, more) with OSX. - IchiroBoston, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Im a Mac Geek, the company I work for uses only macs...etc BUT I do agree, Software is buggy, slow.... BUT I dont have to worry about security / stability of my computer.
If the OS goes bad I can just re-install OS X and everything just works, or even boot off another copy of os x and have 90% of my apps work.
My #1 Complaint about the MAC OS has to be the disk system, it gets damaged way too easy.
If you dont check and run something like disk warrior often eventually you get so many directory errors the computer slows dows so much. This has always been an issue with Apple's OS's (maybe not back in the Apple //e era lol)
Apple! Look at Windows Server 2003 / AD / Exchange /NTFS...etc Bring OS X to the corporate level! - tainc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0themeparkphoto - holy goodness, what have you done to that machine? My powerbook hasn't gone down once since I bought it two years ago. OSX crashing and XP remaining stable by comparison is FAR from the norm.
- vr1000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I think Woz is right. Stick to the same GUI from program to program. Its annoying to have to deal with new interfaces and non-standard pop up menus and tool pallettes. I just downloaded the trial version of Aquaminds Notetaker. Its a great program but some of the non-standard elements of the interface make me crazy. I will probably buy it because it meets my needs but why should I have to take the time to deal with its quirkiness.
- Flynnz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0yeah I agree that when Apple "switches" to Intel, the computer will still be an Apple product. It will be no more an "intel" machine, than it's an IBM machine running powerPC. So his statement still holds true.
- Trjn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Bill Gates got the larger marketshare in the end, people look at that instead of the achievements of Woz. Its unfortunate, and shouldn't be like that, but hey, at the very least, at least people don't think of Ballmer.
On what he said. . . well, some of the points he made, such as music distribution through the internet were right on my own thoughts on those subjects. And oddly enough, it seems that the third party software for OS X is sometimes better (says me who has Safari, iTunes and several other Apple programs running right now), but the things that people use more often, Apple seems to be able to get those to work better than the third party stuff, its the more obscure apps that are less used that I find to be the most problematic. - nerdofnerds, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0i really don't think this man gets enough credit for what he did...
When people think computers they look up to (for some odd reason...) bill gates...
I hate that... - hibern8, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"I forget - aren't the eventual Intel-based Macs still going to be sold only through Apple? That would mean OSX is still not on a non-Apple box."
Legally, for the time being, it will only be available on Apple boxes. Otherwise, the final release just like the devkit will pirated and installed on generic Intel machines. The shift to licencing to other hardware manufacturers will not be possible until Apple has a larger share of the market.
I doubt it will be as easy to pirate final OS X for Intel release at the devkit. Chances are Apple will have something in hardware BIOS that would prevent OS X from installing/running on non-Apple hardware. It is not hard to add a little chip on the MB to generate a unique checksum on everyboot or something. Apple has to do something like that because wide-spread pirating may cause some major problems.
Wait, there will be a wave of diggs of people bitching about how crappy OS X is running on their generic WinTel box etc. - mercury81, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1awww sectorNation, did a Mac fanboy get his feelings hurt?
- NidStyles, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Being a Mac owner I would prefer to have the real thing with the quality of the hardware, rather than a cheapened version just to have OS X. The whole package is what makes the Mac so nice, and likeable. This is coming from a BSD/Linux fanboy too. On a normal PC I'd rather run with Linux or FreeBSD.
with that out of the way, it's nice to know that there are people out that understand that the Lisa way was broken. - SectorNation, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Bugs aside, Woz is so irrelevant these days, why should we care what his specific thoughts are? It looks like just another opportunity to throw his name out there.
If he really felt this way about Apple, why wouldn't he call his buddy Jobs versus slam him in an article?
Hey Woz, why don't you get your company to actually produce something and stop trying to bleed Apple dry for free press? - badbilly, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1of course Apple puts out the worst, worst software.
ITS FOR CHILDREN AND OLD PEOPLE !
you go WOZ! - blueice03, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0His comment about the worst software coming from Apple is partially true. I have seen many times and examples of Apple putting out a decent product and a third party developer releasing something that builds on the original idea of the apple product but takes it a step further and enhances that idea. There is nothing wrong with this and, in fact, I believe it is testimony to the strong 3rd party development community that exists for Apple. For those that want examples I would point out things like Pathfinder which takes the basic Finder(which most agree is long overdue for a reworking and is probably the worst app on a Mac) and extends it.
All in all I thought his comments were right on. He does have some criticisms of Apple, but let's be realistic: Apple might have the touch of Midas right now but that doesn't mean they do everything perfectly. I would especially be intrigued to see Woz's concepts of what a computer should be and what role the OS should play in that. - cambrown99, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Reading his comments on DRM was refreshing. If Apple ever just ups and buys out all of the record companies (or say 'screw it' and start their own), they should put him in place as CEO. He's definitely one of the good guys.
- Johnbinarystar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Amazing how people in success bubbles, loose complete grounding in reality and come to believe they are like Gods.
They make junky slow and retarded products, and spend more on marketing than anything else. The poser box! - tiamat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0astromoondoggie, well, legally perhaps, but we've already seen people pirate the dev kit, so I think we can assume that there will be home grown non-apple OSX machines. . .
- astromoondoggie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"Of course, he is wrong about OS X on non-Apple boxes."
I forget - aren't the eventual Intel-based Macs still going to be sold only through Apple? That would mean OSX is still not on a non-Apple box. - snugsoho, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0A very interesting read, shame about the end though - if he really thinks that Apple provides some of the worst software he really aught to have backed up his claim with an example - it sort of made me think he's just grinding an axe. I'm not saying Apple doesn't produce crappy software because as a Mac user i know from experience that Apple doesn't ever really get it right first version round and even when they consider a package complete it's often lacking one or two key features. I totally agree with him on DRM though... people rampantly stealing copyrighted material off the internet are just as much to blame as the media producers are.
- possum, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0good read
- fa_pa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"Do you think we'll see OS X on non-Apple boxes in the future?
No, I don't. ... "
little did he know...
btw intresting read... - hibern8, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0He doesn't really say anything new or anything you yourself didn't know already about DRM or OS X. Of course, he is wrong about OS X on non-Apple boxes.
- Nick_Circosta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0very good read
-Nick - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Go Woz! BTW: It would be very foolish for Apple to licence OS-X for hardware that wasn't designed and tested for it. There's a LOT of engineering in Windows XP to make it run on a huge variety of hardware. And my Macintosh crashes about once a day...I can't remember the last time any of my XP machines needed to be rebooted..
- ezweave, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0I have run into some buggy Mac software, but I think we all need to consider that he is probably not running much (if any) Windows/Microsoft software. If he was a devout Windows user as well, he might not claim Apple was so "buggy".
My $0.02 - iammike, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0No DIGG! ... there have been entirely to many freaking stories featuring something from Steve Wozniak lately.
- barata, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Microsoft should just give up on Vista and license OS X. They've been copying Apple all these years anyhow.
- gllmac, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Very strange article. One minute Woz loves Apple, the other he's complaining about it! I do agree that Apple is straying away from it's original principles. But, OS X is light-years better than Windows, and probably always will be.
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