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Amazon Soon Opening DRM-free MP3 Store?

computers.net — So the question is: Is Amazon big enough to take significant market share away from Apple & friends? If the DRM-free ideal comes true, I think we may have something to look forward to in 2007...

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kazzyD 1 year 297 days ago, made popular 1 year 297 days ago

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idiggeverything, on 10/12/2007, -15/+6emusic already does it.
- majoogybobber, on 10/12/2007, -3/+111. eMusic is subscription-based.
  2. Missing the big 4 labels (though since I listen to primarily jazz, I care less about this. But other people will!)
  
  Bleh.
- hobgobbler, on 10/12/2007, -12/+1I don't know what emusic is but they can't possibly do it without consent from the record companies. What is being tested now in China is a DRM free system where the user pays a monthly fee and can download all the music they want. I think it's torrent based. If they can prove it's profitable in China it will probably be used here. (we might have to murder all RIAA executives but whatever). And that may be the iTunes killer, unless Apple buys Apple Records and becomes a legitimate music company... putting a 'publish to iTunes' button on Garageband or whatever professional music program they develop (since every recording studio uses Macs)... iTunes may be the iTunes killer. food for thought.
- xinit, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6"we might have to murder all RIAA executives but whatever"
  
  Which line would be longer; the one to sign up for a chance to take a swing at an RIAA exec or the lineup for a 1/2 price PS3?
- Ireland, on 10/12/2007, -12/+2Notice nobody hasn't said "why is this story in the Apple section" yet?
  
  Is this because this could potentially have a bad effect on Apple?
  Well coun't give a ***** about that (and I'm a shareholder, I also own shares in other companies I think will earn me money too) cause the effect, if any, would be small.
  
  So don't get your knickers in a twist (Apple haters) cause Apple is on the up, and you know it. You can get people who like Apple, you can get people who like Nintendo, people who like Sony, and people who like the Xbox 360 etc. The point is you don't have to be a fanboy, sometimes you can just like a companies products.
  
  This is more bad news than good news than good news for Apple, and users of the Apple section (most Apple users) dugg it, so give it a rest!
- surfing, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3majoogybobber, Kenny G isn't jazz
- Arramol, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"emusic already does it."
  
  The more the merrier! Especially if Amazon signs some of the artists that aren't on eMusic.
- hobgobbler, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1geez I share information that could make a smart man wealthy and I get dugg down for it. serves me right.
- OmegaNine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I would love to see this happen, but it will not happen with big name bands for a while. So untill i can move my MP3s from ipod to zen to zune...im going to keep bit torrent running.
- hobgobbler, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2***** this site. nothing but sheep.
- Quix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"emusic already does it"
  
  Yeah, I tried emusic. The selection sucks.
  
  I can't envision the big labels allowing DRM-free music. I can dream about it, but I can't envision it.
- neatflux, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1@hobgobbler
  
  "***** this site. nothing but sheep."
  
  Baaaaaa maybe your original post lacked reason baaaaaaaaaaa.
- hobgobbler, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3we'll see. baaah.
- anonydigg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"emusic already does it."
  I have paid emusic in excess of $350 in subscription fees. I consider myself an indie junkey. There aren't even enough indie labels signed. Time after time I search for something (non-major4) I like, and it's not there. My other option is to try to browse for good music in their database. Their navigation system SUCKS. You're either faced with having to search through a lot of crap or having to re-consume the ones that have gotten popular by fluke and stayed up there in a loop. Their editors' taste is worse than my hypothetical grandfather and they ALWAYS pick the ***** albums. By the end of the month I run out of time to find things I like so my subscription goes unused. If I go to a lower subscription level, I can't even DL two full albums.
  
  I would really like Amazon to cut a deal with major labels over a DRM free service. emusic doesn't cut it.
  (DRM ones are out of the question)
- kirashira, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1nothing will beat limewire
- surfing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I didn't realize how many Kenny G fans are on Digg.
KnightMareInc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+50the more DRM-free anything the better.
- adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9amen
- drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Precisely, just the idea of an actual corporate backing of DRM free music is good news for us. Also being it a local company for me, I am happy they are the ones trying to take steps forward in this way.
- computerdude33, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5RAmen.
- ashester, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Gotta agree, what ever Amazon is cookin smells good.
- jwyles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If this goes through and Amazon does indeed release DRM-free music I will hold myself to this public promise to buy a minimum of 10 songs.
zweben, on 10/12/2007, -0/+27As long as:

-The pricing is the same or better as iTunes
-The format they choose plays on an iPod
-The compression is equal to or better quality than 128kbps AAC, i'll switch to Amazon in a second.

A lossless, DRM free download would be amazing.
- Ag3ntOrang3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18How about lossless? Who wants 128kbps, come on now. Give it to me in a lossless format and let me convert it to whatever I want from there. Lossless will get my business in a heartbeat.
- alphacorvus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I agree that lossless would be a no-brainer.
- dimension128, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Would be cool if you could download the music in multiple formats, loseless, ogg, mp3, different bitrates, etc. I imagine I'd select 256 ogg as my default format. But to know that I could also get a full FLAC version of the file, would be just amazing.
- Nihilanth41, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1what about allofmp3? they've got multiple lossless and lossy formats in various bitrates. er, that's what it looks like anyway, i don't buy music online, i probably never will (unless i'm ordering a CD)
- majoogybobber, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13"-The pricing is the same or better as iTunes"
  
  Hell, I would even pay up to 3 cents more for no DRM.
- kagelump, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6seriously tho
  i'd doubt the majority of the people who use these things can't tell apart 128 kbs mp3 and 320kbs mp3
  especially on those $15 earbuds
- anonydigg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"I imagine I'd select 256 ogg as my default format."
  I don't think there is such a thing. OGG doesn't have bitrate target compression as an option I believe. It's only "quality levels". 3 is around 128Kbps VBR mp3. If you meant the quality level roughly corresponding to 256Kb VBR, then excuse my post.
- nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1kagelump: we know we're not a majority, but some of use listen to music from our ipod or computers on decent speakers or earphones where you can hear a difference.
datsclark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Me soon buy music
soccerboi00, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8If anyone can dent Apple's marketshare, it's Amazon. Next to all the CDs, make it so you can buy it digitally too, and on the track lists have it so you can download individual tracks.
- jsg7, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5If only they can make it as good as Unbox...
  
  /sarcasm
Gm7Cadd9, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8It is far too trendy to blame Apple for restrictive DRM when the truth is the record companies wouldn't have it any other way. Apple has dragged the RIAA through the digital music revolution kicking and screaming and all along the way they have only asked for more money and more DRM.

You hear this sort of thing all the time talking about how something new is going to trump Apple... the zune wireless sharing is the new thing... free downloads!!!! oh yeah, only 3 plays over 3 days... if it is too good to be true, then it probably is.
- majoogybobber, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4No one has actually blamed Apple in these comments. They've cited Apple as a competitor, sure, but that's to be expected in a music download discussion.
- bgiese, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If the labels offer Amazon a DRM free consent to sell online; they'll surely have to offer the same type of arrangement to Apple.
  
  Steve Jobs said their fairplay DRM was added because the recording industry needed restrictions to protect their intellectual property. Apple doesn't need the iTunes store to sell iPods. The record label on the other hand needs the iTunes store more and more every day in order to sell music.
  
  If Amazon is able to get a deal to sell music without DRM you can bet that Steve Jobs will be on the telephone the next day getting the same deal for the iTunes store.
  
  Once Apple had gotten deals to sell music for 99 cents and $9.99 it was no coincidence that other online stores also begun selling music at a similar price points. Worked the same way.
- Quix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"No one has actually blamed Apple in these comments."
  
  Actually, Apple frequently gets the blame (direct or indirect) for DRM when it's absolutely, positively the record companies behind it.
  
  The arguments "Company X will slaughter Apple if they sell DRM-free music!" are silly since the major record companies aren't going to allow Company X to sell their music without DRM. Hence we end up with alternatives like eMusic, with a meager selection and little compelling reason to buy.
elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1The thing with selling DRM-free music, as wonderful as it is is this. What happens to THEM when I download one copy of "Ridin' Dirty" (No, I don't listen to that crap), and then copy it for 20 friends. I think they'll get screwed.
- rypaintD, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Well you could just as easily download it through P2P and copy it though.
- majoogybobber, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Wow, you might be on to something.... and to take your idea further, imagine if someone made a program that let masses of people share their music like that? And then called it.. Napster? That would be big trouble indeed.
  
  I'm glad that sure doesn't or hasn't ever existed.
- majoogybobber, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hem, sarcasm aside, I think there's a market for non-DRMed music outside of piracy despite the fact that, as elnerdo aptly pointed out, it could quickly be shared. That will happen anyway with piracy.
  On the other hand, piracy is free, but risky-- I'd imagine plenty of people would switch to a legal method if it provided them with a similar product at a reasonable price. And right now, that product doesn't really exist because of DRM restrictions. So if this happens, it could be big.
- Arramol, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What happens to them? The same thing that happens when I buy a CD and rip it, or remove the DRM from iTunes music. It's not like this is creating any new possibilities as far as piracy goes. At most, it's making it marginally more convenient.
- MattH, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Digital Watermarking and Digital Fingerpring will replace DRM as the new Technical Protection Measures .
DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I went through several MP3 players before settling on an iPod. What makes the iPod work so well isn't the iTunes store, but the software. If Amazon signs onto this, hopefully they'll have the forethought to come up with software that will manage MP3s and seamlessly sync up music. That's where Apple wins.
- joelito, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2What?
  Can't you just use Windows Media Player or Winamp or something like that to sync your MP3 player with your collection?
forceflow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I think a variable pricing and quality scheme similar to allofmp3 makes the most sense. Allow users to choose the quality of the music they want, and pay accordingly.
streetstealth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Can someone vouch for Hypebot (the source cited)? I really want to believe this!

The day Amazon puts its name behind a service that pushes non-DRM downloads, the future of entertainment and the internet will brighten by a rather startling degree.
Steaminx, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1$1.09 is the perfect price point for Un-DRM'd music.
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1uh...no, don't think so...the cheaper the better...the cheaper it is, the less inclined people will be to try to cheat the system. same thing goes for taxes, too--that way you won't have billionaires that pay a lower pecentage than the rest of us.
- decipherd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@gthing,
  
  Your spot on, i know so many people that have bought much more music than they ever would have before after discovering allofmp3 - because the pricing is just right! It allows you to try out new artists much more often.. of course this spiral leads you into buying more music
  
  Its a no-brainer.
  
  An amazon store with no DRM would wipe the floor with iTunes. Personally i have no intention of buying into a DRM 'Ecosystem' ever.
d3faultnet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2if i was more into music (i don't even own an mp3 player), and i actually bought my music online, i would definitely use amazon over apple's itunes.
though, doesn't anyone remember what happened when amazon was selling the xbox 360 for $100??? the servers got slammed and couldn't handle the load. obviously, they will upgrade the server, but still......
Balanced, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Didn't Amazon get slammed for an incredibly convoluted DRM scheme for some sort of online sales?
- streetstealth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Unbox. Their video download service. And yes, it had extremely draconian DRM!
  
  This would be a real about-face for them, going from profusely kissing the toes of the movie studios to driving a hard bargain with the music labels.
- bigwyrm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If so, that is probably why they're trying this. I hope it works for them. After so many years of the RIAA crying that the Internet is going to bring about the downfall of civilization, it will be satisfying to see somebody build a large-scale, legitimate music business on the Internet. I hope.
mikesly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0As long as I can find a music service with great sound and ALL MUSIC dating back to who knows when, and works with all MP3 Players then I am sold. Until then nothing is really out there that is well... good.
andrewpmk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Why do the record companies bother with DRM for music anyway? CDs have no DRM, although the record companies made an unsuccessful attempt at it. Since it is trivial to rip a CD to either a lossless or lossy format and share it on BitTorrent anyway, there is no advantage to putting DRM on downloadable music. Such a trivial barrier is useless against the pirates.
- Nerys, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Actually there is an advantage. If you can make DRM the norm eventually ALL "software" (the music) and ALL hardware (the players) will be DRM'd
  
  Eventually you force them to "drop" support for non drm'd content (hardware) and yui eliminate CD's or make a new format if any at all (walk in plug in your player buy your music)
  
  When that happens they will have total control. IE in THIS tiny respect they are thinking long term.
- luigi1015, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think they bother with DRM to keep the honest people honest.
  I would think most people that buy DRMed music either aren't tech-savvy enough or are just too honest to "share" the music. The DRM keeps such honest people from being tempted to put their purchased file on some P2P site.
  It's the same thing as the average joe's locks on his doors. The average door lock will keep out the (average) neighbors but won't keep out the determined and competent burglar.
- decipherd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ Nerys,
  
  As long as you can play it out of speakers it can be copied. So fortunatly this won't be true for a long, long time when the music is playing directly into our brains ;-)
bprice57, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1amazon wont be able to get the major labels to agree, without DRM these labels make less money. If you have to buy the same music for all your different products, thats money in the bank. not gonna happen for a while.
mattchambers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Tell you what. If I can get what I get on a CD, non-DRM and lossless, then I'll pay up to the price of the CD for it. It really is that simple. Until then I am not going to pay the same amount for less, I don't want to prove myself an idiot.
Nerys, on 10/12/2007, -1/+84 things are needed before I will EVER buy online music from a US retailer

#1 DRM FREE Wide open unencumbered mp3's this is a deal breaker ANY DRM at all and I have no interest. NOT wma NOT aac NOT mp3pro JUST regular old mo3.

#2 MUCH cheaper prices. 99 cents a song is NUTS thats more than the cost of a CD Track at times !!! and you get so much less for me this maxes at around 25 cents a song. anything over 25 cents a song ($5 an album) and I will have SERIOUS second thoughts.

#3 Minimum Quality - Properly encoded 192kbit Stereo. anything less and I have no interest.

#4 No overreaching terms of service or EULA's ZERO restrictions on personal property rights Normal already in place restrictions on intellectual property rights (IE existing law nothing new or added)

The only retailer who currently meets all 4 of these requirements is www.allofmp3.com (in fact they are cheaper than my conditions under #2 averaging 17 cents a song and $4 an album)

I am slightly flexible on price but NOT anywhere near to the tune of 99 cents for a freaking digital file.
- Quix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I agree with all your points except calling allofmp3 a "retailer." Let's face facts - they're a glorified pirate site, nothing more. A pirate site that charges you for their musical contraband. How else do you think they meet all your (and my) requirements?
anonydigg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3To Amazon:
Don't forget Canada, Australia and Europe; Like you did when you make Unbox. (Aside from Windows only and DRM infested)
malliemcg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2More than likely will be US only, oh you're from Australia we won't sell to you. BAH!

That was the best thing about allofmp3.com - good price, choice of format and encoding and they didn't care where you were from!
prh99, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Provided they don't screw up in any of the ways they did with their video service (unreliable play back, draconian EULA, poorly written custom software, and DRM) it could be a success. Any company that can convince major labels to let them sell unencumbered MP3s at a reasonable price is going to do significant damage to Apple's exclusive tie in for the iPod, as others will be able to say they're iPod compatible (like emusic does now). If Amazon did manage to create such a service I think there would quiet a bit of pressure for Apple, Napster, and Rhapsody to follow suit. Of course making it available in multiple formats (which should be easier not have to worry about DRM) would make it all the better, especially if they threw in a lossless format or two. I'd pay $0.99 for a DRM free lossless track.
- freff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I agree with your post up to and including the price, but if I'm buying songs in bulk, then the price better be considerably better than that. There will be give and take on both sides, but as a consumer, I'm not willing to get completely reamed to buy DRM-free music online, but I'll pay a fair price for it.
archer75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Music with no DRM always deserves a digg.
cad455, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0The format will almost certainly NOT be MP3. The content delivery spec requires WMA Lossless.

The Amazon music store has been in the works for months - we've been working with them on getting this off the ground for something like 6 months now. It should launch early 2007. I would assume DRM is planned.

Good thing I haven't signed any NDAs.
gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That would be excellent. If they offer WMA Lossless and it's cheaper than buying a CD, I'm definitely interested (since I encode all my CD's to WMA lossless anyway). Without DRM, I'm also worried about how good the selection will be... I'm crossing my fingers.
sactodigg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Whenever I hear about DRM free music I think to myself what would make the giant music labels change their minds? That's right they can't and they won't. One way or another someone is going to have to stick it to the consumer, by either restricting what consumers can do with content, or charging a crapload of money to get the content.
- NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"what would make the giant music labels change their minds? "
  
  A mandatory licensing scheme, just like we got with radio back in the 1930s.
  
  -jcr
pdotnet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'd buy music from Amazon
jbond, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Amazon should just copy the AllOfMp3 site. Same approach, same lack of DRM, same choice of encoding, same price.

But they won't. Sigh.
jbond, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Amazon should just copy the AllOfMp3 site. Same choice of encoding, same lack of DRM, same pricing. Then do a deal with the labels based on a percentage of retail, not a fixed amount. And then push to digitise and offer every album and track ever recorded.

But they won't. Sigh. Just Say No To DRM. m'kay?
dubcanada, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0If you want to stop pirates.. Give them DRM Free songs.. Stop sueing them and that just makes fan groups and a hord of people who say ***** that ***** and do it out of spit towards RIAA. And the latest news about sueing 12 year olds, etc.. That isn't helping.. Now the RIAA seems to be slowing down as artists are saying.. Hold on why does some company get $2 and I only get 95 cents.. So now RIAA wants to get the government to increase RIAA's profits and decrease artists, as the artists need more protecting.

God if there was no RIAA there would be no pirating.. Plain and simple, nobody to enforce not doing it would mean nobody to not do it.

Companies like Napster, Kazaa, and the dumb ***** that stored the files on servers.. Are just that dumb *****.. Now that is illegal..

But this DRM ***** has to stop. I would pay an extra $2 on an album and 1.09 per a song to have NON DRM songs. Hell yah, like come on who wouldn't? P2P is good, but it takes for fing ever to get a song.. I want to click a button and have it. Now have to wait for it to find peers and seeds and than figure out the square root of a icosahedron and times it by .05828847254 to figure out what the area of a fupsoviisjfgks is. I don't give a crap.. I want my song :)

iTunes is only good if you have an iPod. If you don't like myself, what is the point? I can't transfer it to my zune, which I LOVE. Even though I strongly hate MS I believe in the Zune :)
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Amazon Soon Opening DRM-free MP3 Store?

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