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289 Comments
- chris8535, on 10/10/2007, -21/+81This was an interesting article, but it was ruined by an ax he seems to want to grind. Vista really isn't that bad, it doesn't crash constantly and works fairly smoothly on any *new* computer. It certainly the horrid experience he alludes to.
Tiger/OSX in general on the other hand really did bring about a lot of things that made it a more enjoyable choice.
In the end, I think apple will choose to control everything according to their values. And their values will continue to match the 3-5% of the market it now inhabits. Until its willing to change that, it will forever be a niche product. - geminitojanus, on 10/10/2007, -27/+74The fallacy here is that Apple actually wants to become Microsoft. They don't. They're 100% happier being a company that sells people both the software and the hardware and can insure that the entire experience is good rather than just the software. Apple's had numerous chances to sell white-box Macs, they even did it and it almost killed Apple Computer. Then Jobs came back to the company and axed that whole idea.
Vista's "Windows of Opportunity" status isn't really closing for anyone; more people than ever are realizing that Microsoft has been putting out the same OS with tiny revisions here and there, in many cases revisions that block the users from using the computers the way they want to, and charging an absolute fortune for it. Consumers are looking for new options: Linux adoption has skyrocketed. Macs have started flying off the shelves. Microsoft is starting to realize that people are starting to leave them in droves and is trying everything it can to re-lock people to their platforms including creating new platforms (Zune, XBox), trying to buy votes to make their software the one everyone uses/can use (OOXML), and the consumers just aren't buying it (and it's costing Microsoft more than they're making).
Quite frankly, to Microsoft, this has been a Vista to a Death. They'll find some way to survive this of course (cockroaches can't even be killed by nuclear weapons), but this is going to hurt them for years to come. - Alegoo92, on 10/10/2007, -1/+23One thing I'd like to share..
At the small privatized iLife/iWork '08 unveiling, Molly Wood asked Jobs about producing low-priced, budget iMacs. According to her summary on BOL, his reaction seemed to point that he enjoys the Mac being the 'upper crust' of the computing industry, and would have opened up a low priced iMac space if he really wanted a more iPod-like marketshare. - monsterofNone, on 10/10/2007, -6/+26i've had at least one mac since 1984. there hasn't been a financial quarter since then when i haven't seen some lame ass article offering unsolicited advice to apple about how it's missing the boat. in the meantime i've always had a great, fast, elegant computer at a good price that was virus free and didn't need an IT department to keep operating. in the meantime i've never missed a deadline due to computer problems, never had a hard drive crash, never lost a file, never had a "Blue Screen of Death." never. ever.
i don't care what market share apple holds so long as they continue to make the same quality computers and operating systems. i suspect steve jobs doesn't either. - Kazbaeden, on 10/10/2007, -8/+27"it doesn't crash constantly and works fairly smoothly on any *new* computer."
I run Vista on a 3 year old Dell 700m with 1.6 GHz Pentium M, 512mb RAM, and a video card that doesn't even support Aero. Compared to XP, Vista has never crashed, I experience longer battery life under simliar usage conditions, return from standby is instant whereas on XP it would often hang or take 10+ minutes. The UI is responsive and intuitive to use, the visual effects even with aero are pleasant to the eye, the mobility center is easy to use and useful, networking is a thousand times better and completely reliable, the sync center is excellent for accessing my desktop files when I'm on campus... I could go on and on.
I guess my point is Vista is FAR from a horrid experience. I have a hard time going back to XP. - Alegoo92, on 10/10/2007, -8/+26Um.. Why would you NOT pick a computer based on it's operating system?
- MioTheGreat, on 10/10/2007, -2/+16The name makes more sense. Add/Remove programs? Was that thing EVER used for "adding" programs? No.
Programs & Features means exactly what it says: It lists your currently installed programs for removal/repairing/changing, and controls Windows Features. - Pooley, on 10/10/2007, -17/+31I've been using Windows since I first had a computer in 1993. Last year I bought a hi-spec laptop (a Dell XPS M170) which absolutely flew with XP and I loved it.
I was keen to try Vista so I bought Ultimate OEM six months ago.
It's awful. Slow, restricting and none of my peripherals work. Sure, I could go back to XP but I want to feel I'm running a cutting edge OS as my primary OS.
Six weeks ago I bought a 24 inch dual core 2.8Ghz iMac and I've never looked back for a second. I wish I'd gone Mac earlier - Intel and 10.4 would've done it for me.
Apple really *do* have a unique opportunity here. Their computers are now superior and, for what you get, competitively priced. They should certainly investigate making their products more ubiquitous. - drlha, on 10/10/2007, -4/+17Maybe not in droves, but 7 years ago I knew 1 guy who owned a Mac (and as a Linux guy I used to take the piss out of him for it). Now just including my close family almost all of them own Macs, and everyone I work with now either has a Mac laptop, or is going to get one soon (I work in Research, and at conferences I go to, the audience has about 50% Mac laptops). Macs may not be taking over the world, but to deny the fact that their popularity has grown immensely in the last 5 years is ignorance. Macs have gone from computers that "Mac people" buy, to a mainstream computer.
- jdaniel284, on 10/10/2007, -10/+23"The fallacy here is that Apple actually wants to become Microsoft. They don't. They're 100% happier being a company that sells people both the software and the hardware and can insure that the entire experience is good rather than just the software."
From your response, I can tell that Apple has done an EXCELLENT job in marketting and customer retention. However, don't kid yourself... Apple would switch places with Microsoft in a heartbeat. The company "Apple" exists in the atmosphere of capitalism just like everyone else; they are really not out to help old ladies cross the street and generally go around doing hardware and software good deads. It is all a means to an end. - jdaniel284, on 10/10/2007, -9/+21When I first started working for this particular company, I wore a tie to work a few times. No one else did, but I would throw on a loose tie with jeans and tennis shoes, etc... All the people around the office were concerned, and kept asking me *why* I was wearing a tie. "I don't know, just grabbed it out of the closet this morning for a splash of color." Eventually, someone approached me and ask me not to wear a tie anymore. "Why?", I asked. "Well, some of the guys around the office were talking and they think you look like a confirmist wearing the tie. No one wears a tie because we are not confirmists in this office". Well, I continued to wear the damn tie whenever I wanted, and continued to receive negative feedback.
Mac users remind me of those office people sometimes. They are so concerned with being non-confirmists that they sometimes fail to see the hypocracy of it all. - adml_shake, on 10/10/2007, -1/+13I thought that was the idea behind the mac mini?
- vault, on 10/10/2007, -7/+19Some of us use apps that only run on OS X.
Not everyone's a PC gamer... - purdo, on 10/10/2007, -7/+18"Quite frankly, to Microsoft, this has been a Vista to a Death"
I'm sorry, but everytime Microsoft puts out a new OS I hear the same thing. People said it with 98, ME, 2000 and XP. In fact when XP was released all anybody said was that it was 2000 with options now hidden and a new gui. Sound familiar?
Microsoft is not going to go away anytime soon. I guarantee that come 2 years. Microsoft's market share will have increased, where pretty much everyone else will stay static with minor fluctuations.
I also suggest that people actually try Vista, it is a good OS. Yeah driver support is going to be an issue, it's a new OS. Give it 12 months and the drivers will be there. If apple chucked out OSX for general consumption on any hardware you see what kind of driver problems you would have then. - MioTheGreat, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Something like 70% of all Windows crashes are caused by 3rd party kernel-mode drivers.
Then, another 10-15% are caused by hardware issues. You think OSX could stand stable outside of Apple's tight grip on its hardware? Only Linux has managed to do that, and with the important hardware, Video cards, for instance, it's still failing (Though recent developments may change that.) - renegadeafk, on 10/10/2007, -6/+16If you have a 3.0 Ghz p4 and more than a gig of ram your set. Doesn't really take that much. My socket 478 p4 pc (AGP 7600GS) runs vista great. Games run great. F.E.A.R, Quake Wars demo on pretty high settings, HL2, CS:S, Far Cry, Bioshock, Stalker ect... It boots fast as hell on this pc too. It doesn't seem to slow down as much over time either. I've isntalled and uninstalled a ***** of software and it's fast as ever.
- javaroast, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11You are quoting retail sales figures. This has been gone over so many times that it's ridiculous. Those figures don't have anything to do with total market share.
- johnpaul191, on 10/10/2007, -3/+12that's not true at all. OS X is still ahead of Vista according to web tracking, and that's the same system that claims Macs have such a small install base.
- DarkMeld, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10I feel like im sitting on the edge of a cliff with linux
- drlha, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10I'm digging you down because a Macbook doesn't cost $2000, they start at $1099 and top out at $1500 (you might reach $2000 if you upgrade everything and throw in Applecare).
- RMSzero, on 10/10/2007, -6/+14This does not agree with other stats I've recently seen.
"In its most recent financial quarter Apple sold 1.76 million Macs, a 33-percent rise over what it shipped in the third quarter of 2006 and 2.5 times the industry-wide growth rate published by market-research firm IDC."
and more specifically:
"Data from one market research firm shows Apple’s notebook business broke 17 percent while another research firm said Apple has moved into third place among computer makers."
http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/08/21/appleshare/index.php - MScrip, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9I wish Apple would change their current advertising campaign. The whole "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" is getting tired... and it only tells what's wrong with PCs... not why Apple is better.
If Apple made commercials that actually SHOWED people using Macs, or how easy it is to do all the things they say are easy (music, movies, pictures, etc) people might actually consider them. But the general public only sees two guys standing in a white box arguing. Shouldn't Apple be able to produce a better commercial than that? This is Apple, after all.
Apple makes great computers and wonderful computing experiences... but only current Mac users know about it. It's a shame. - RogerStrong, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8I'm glad you brought that up. Microsoft has FREE filters for older versions of Office to load documents from newer versions. Even though they changed the doc formats, our old Office 97 machines have no problems loading documents from Office 2000 and Office 2003.
- JoeDiggsIt, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Once you combine Apple Stores, CompUSA, Best Buy, and lots and lots of other retailers, I dont really see how he says its difficult to test drive OSX.
- RogerStrong, on 10/10/2007, -6/+12I was once a proud Apple ][ owner. Anyone could write software for it, and anyone could build hardware for it. The connectors were all standards - the parallel, serial and microphone jacks were standards that existed for a long time before the Apple ][, and are still used on PCs 30 years later.
Once the Mac came out, it became obvious that Apple no longer cared about their customers. It wasn't just that the connectors were all propriatary - forcing you to buy overpriced printers, cables, etc. It's that with every new Mac, they *changed* the connectors. And if you wanted to upgrade your Mac, you disconnected the power cord and replaced the rest.
Then they pulled a trick on schools and others who demanded the standardization found on PCs - they introduced the NuBus. People bought the Macs, and plenty of NuBus peripherals. Sure enough, as new Macs were released, they changed the NuBus's connectors and dimensions so that you couldn't use your old cards.
I knew I guy at least ten years ago who had just bought his fourth Power-Mac, and didn't have a microphone that wouldf work with it. Three other Macs, three different connectors. Apple doesn't merely not care about their customers - they have a blind hatred towards them. The PC still uses the standard microphone jack used on tape recorders long before the PC existed.
The iPhone is no different - they keep it locked down and propriatary. You can't even replace the battery - which will useless in three years.
Remember the original "1984" Mac ad? It's Apple that became Big Brother, and the PC that offered us freedom. - GregR, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Yup, buried because you are wrong! Mac can run any OS (Windows &/or Linux). Other machines can't run OS X (legally at least). I want a choice so I bought a Mac so I can run any OS (including OS X) and have a great looking machine that runs virus free without extra software.
- GregR, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7I'd like to see that comparison.
- vault, on 10/10/2007, -4/+10You can boot Windows using boot camp, which will be built into leopard. But then the best graphics card you could get is not going to be as current as a top of the line nvidia card for PC.
- prammy, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9I have Vista Ultimate and it runs great for me. All my peripherals work, might just be your hardware.
- Rikushix, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Assuming you aren't making that up, that's the best thing I've ever, EVER read on digg. Hypocrisy at it's finest. "No one wears a tie because we are not confirmists in this office"...
In my humble opinion I think Apple's OS's and their other products in general are great, and it can really be a different experience using an Apple OS than from, say, Vista. However, at its core, both essentially are computers. You can get the same things done with both operating systems (obviously a very sweepingly broad statement, but generally true). I understand when people are more inclined to like apple; it's just preference. But fan boys annoy me because they are just like what Alegoo92 up earlier had to share: they want to be cutting edge and stand out in the crowd. It's just like Steve Jobs saying that he believes Apple should be "the upper crust" and that's why they're so expensive. I don't see macs any better than I see Vista, and I'm enjoying Vista right now, a lot. I'm not gonna buy a 2500$ macbook for an equal computing experience. Why would one buy a 5000$ alienware desktop? Because it has unparalleled power and functionality. Apple isn't bad, but the marketing and hype around it is always much greater than it deserves, and your story is a classic analogy of that. - inkswamp, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5If your theory is right, then why hasn't Linux overtaken Windows? You can install Linux on MORE machines than Windows. The real issue is that Windows is so deeply rooted in business and consumer activities that it's here for the long-haul whether you like it or not. It's got nothing to do with what people prefer or how "open" Windows is (although I find that argument to be a little weird, given MS's tendency toward the proprietary.) So if you're buried, it's only because your interpretation is very narrow-minded by your geek blinders. I mean, seriously, do you *really* think the average consumer gives a rip what you can install OS X or Windows on? Not likely.
- inkswamp, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5> If Apple made commercials that actually SHOWED people using Macs, or how easy it is
> to do all the things they say are easy (music, movies, pictures, etc) people might
> actually consider them.
They've done that. They did the guy on the airplane ads and similar and their market share didn't budge. I think you overestimate the average consumer, unfortunately. I wish people would respond to more honest appeals to their intelligence, but sadly, I think it takes something a little more in-your-face and appealing to baser instincts. The Mac/PC ad appeals to the crowd out there who is sick to death of Windows annoyances and that's a fertile area to explore. And given that the sales of Macs have been on a sharp increase in the last year, it's a little hard to argue with that. The Mac/PC ads appear to work. The less confrontational, here's-what-you-can-do-with-a-Mac ads don't work. Historically, that's a fact. - RogerStrong, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Yeah, new versions of Windows have a few bugs. Apple is no different: OS/X was buggy as all hell when it was released.
- drlha, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Yes, but Jobs hates the mini, it was mainly produced due to pressure from the shareholders to have an "affordable" Mac.
- zioxide, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8You aren't Apple's target market.
- drakino, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Lets check on the accuracy of the statement you made about "You guys complain that Vistas minimum requirements are so high... Leopards are going to be even higher"
Vista Capable minimum system requirements are an 800mhz machine with 512mb of ram, a Direct X 9 capable video card and 15 gigs of free space.
Vista Premium is slightly higher at 1ghz, 1 gig of ram, a higher graphics card requirement with 128mb RAM minimum there and the same 15 gigs of space
Using age as a basis here, an 800 mhz Intel processor was available in December 1999, and 1 ghz chips were out soon after in the old race to 1ghz,
With the video card requirement though, the first Direct X 9 card was the Radeon 9700 Pro, released August 2002.
Leopard system requirements are:
PowerPC G4 867mhz or higher, 512mb ram, built in firewire and 7 gigs of disk space. The only graphics requirements are the minimum graphics cards shipped with machines capable of the processor requirement. The first 867 machine that shipped was a PowerMac in July 2001, with a Geforce 2 MX.
So, going on processor alone, it almost looks like Vista wins based on time of release, with processors available in 2000 able to make the cut, but the graphics requirement is what hurts your claim. Common cheep Direct X 9 cards didn't really hit the market till mid 2003 with the introduction of the GeForce 5000 series, and ATI 9600 series. Though on the other hand, it dod also take until 2003 for the more consumer friendly Mac lines to scale past 867.
Really, Vista and Leopard aren't all that different as far as minimum system requirements as far as looking at when a machine capable of running either could be bought. Though from personal experience, OS X minimum system requirements tend to be a bit fairer towards estimating what is needed for a workable system, where as a Windows box on minimum hardware is so bog slow to be nearly worthless. - Me1000, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5The majority of PC users dont build their own computers!
- GregR, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4waiting...
- DarkMeld, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7I felt the biggest corporate ***** when I bought an iPhone
- bpapa, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Increasing market share is always nice but you don't have to be #1 to make a lot of money.
- astrostream, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4they can't find any. they just through words and numbers... forget about them, leave them in the dark
- synarchy, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8I recently ran cost specifications on a Dell laptop for my business. With a Vista license, CPU, screen, HD, optical drive, wireless, and ram at about the same level as an introductory macbook pro 15, the Dell cost more. For the first time ever, I bought a Mac. I could have bought either, but the deciding factor for me was Windows. I am just plain tired of it. Now, having had the macbook pro for a month, I am very pleased with my choice. I'll admit I run XP in vmware fusion since there remain a few apps that I need to use that are Windows only. But I will never buy Vista -- ever. Oh, and in case you are wondering, over the last two years, I stopped using Windows on my home box in favor of Linux, and about a year ago, switched over my workstation at the office. I run XP in vmware on both, but have need to launch it less and less, and am looking forward to the day not far off when I can reclaim my HD space and kick it out the door for good.
- mobilehavoc, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5MSFT Market cap - $272 billion
AAPL Market cap - $120 billion - inkswamp, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I work with both PCs and Macs professionally. I disagree. The Macs generally seem better built and outlive the PCs. I have no particular beef with PCs, but don't kid yourself. You get what you pay for. We replace the PCs and PC-parts much more frequently than the Macs. In the long-run, I'd wager that the PCs are more expensive due to lost productivity and maintenance, despite the price tag.
- msgyrd, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Using a Windows logo as your user icon pretty much negates anyone believing you're not completely biased.
- logicbus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4But who are we comparing the Mac to? Windows? Or hardware manufacturers like HP and Dell?
OSX is a beautiful operating system. But Apple's machine are also top-notch. The OS is not suffering for lack of competitive hardware. - oepapel, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7So you and 3% of the population get exactly what you want (or better yet, what Steve has told you that you want) and if you want anything else, then tough.
That's the problem with Apple's approach: it works great if you are the target market but if you are not then good luck getting anything to work.
I like watching video on my mac and I already have cable so I should be able to hook it up out of the box, right? But no, Steve says I need to buy my TV from iTunes.
There are third party companies that have to add this to the mac. And, from what one company rep told me, Steve can come along at any moment and destroy their business by making them incompatible (Quicktime changes to block third parties). They get no notice and are treated like vermin by Cupertino.
Resellers also have to take a back seat to the Apple Stores.
You know that Steve can't stand that other people are extending the mac to do things that are not part of his grand vision. He wants third party companies to make iPod accessories and theme packs, not add basic new functionality. When you strive to control the end to end solution, having a third party add a new "end" can really get on your nerves.
Say what you will about the PC, but nobody, not even Microsoft, can tell you what or how to use it. - JasonCox, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6"...a shame given the rare opportunity for Apple to gain market share that opened up when Vista arrived."
What rare opportunity would this be? I dont recall PC sales slowing any just because Vista came out, people bought computers like they've always bought except now they come with Vista instead of XP. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7That's why Macs have such a low market share. Apple is basically alienating a MAJOR part of the market.
- renegadeafk, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Sounds like driver issues to me. Interface is subjective but I agree to some degree (Control panel is a mess) But I rather like the UI overall.
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