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ATT + iPhone int'l. roaming data horror story = $3K bill
boingboing.net — Caveat Emptor...
drmobutu- 1006 diggs
- digg it
- zechariahs, on 10/10/2007, -2/+78If he's a web developer he shouldn't need to be told what $0.005/kb translates into. It sucks that they don't offer iPhone users the same plans they do Blackberry users but oh well.
- DirtySnachez, on 10/10/2007, -9/+5At $0.005/kb a $3000 bill would mean 600,000KB of data, or 600 megabytes (minus whatever his normal plan cost, so say $100-200 to be generous). 600 Megs is a rediculous amount of data to send over an phone connection with EDGE only, and there is no reasonable way you could get there in just browsing and email, unless you were sending and insane amount of attachments via email.
- VSLOATHE, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3I get there pretty easily every month on my Verizon phone. Fortunately it has 3G. It's not hard to use that much data.
- onelikeseabass, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0Verizon does not offer 3G service on any of their phones or BlackBerrys. EV-DO rev. 0 is not 3G, it's 2.5G. Rev A of EV-DO is 3G, but as of now it is limited to air cards.
- Absinthminded64, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Agreed VS, I can easily use .5-1GB with my Verizon phone in a day. At at EVDO speed (I get about 750kbps) or so it's not difficult. I could manage a gig via CDMA (144kbps?) too.
I still feel for the guy even though he can write it off.
@onelikeseabass What's it like working at Sprint?- onelikeseabass, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I don't work for Sprint. I'm a wireless telecom specialist for a major corporation that has nothing to do with telecom itself.
- hmemcpy, on 10/10/2007, -3/+25http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/
- I_am_so_smrt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Nice. I don't think I'll ever spell that word incorrectly again :)
- eric0213, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1It's not DirtySnachez's fault... it was cut-and-pasted from Jason Coyne comment on Boing Boing (unless they're the same person). A [sic] should have been added, but in order to do that, quotes would have had to been added also.
- Spuy767, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5This guy is a web dev and he doesn't know what a ***** kilobyte is? On second thought. . . He likely used the wrong abbreviation as kilobyte would be kB, but what if it was per kilobit? That would whittle his data to just over 70 megs.
- Spuy767, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Something ELSE. I'va had my iPhone for over a month, sometimes using it exclusively for internet as my cable was out for four days, and I've still only used 111.6 MB of data over edge.
- VSLOATHE, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3I get there pretty easily every month on my Verizon phone. Fortunately it has 3G. It's not hard to use that much data.
- Otto, on 10/10/2007, -5/+23If he's a web developer who doesn't know how many KB a normal webpage is, then he's obviously a very crappy web developer. Page "weight" is an important part of real web development, you have to keep your pages small in order for them to load fast.
- jorvis, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11No kidding! He doesn't know how many kb a text message will be? Sounds like the skill of a FrontPage developer to me (who types a lot, apparently.)
- rebrad, on 10/10/2007, -11/+5AT&T and Apple: a marriage made in heaven.
- petereality, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I didn't know they allowed gay marriage in heaven?
- kevin45, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5He's probably one of those people that make a ***** website entirely in flash or frontpage and just say they're a 'web developer'.
You know damn well anyone with enough brains to develop on the web knows the scaling rate of KB into MB duh, especially when money is in the equation. Hello, hosting?!?
Apple probably intentionally does not tell you how much KB/MB a text/pic message is for reasons like this. I know that on my Treo it tells you the size of the message in the header, typically 1kb for a text and 700-1mb for a pic. - kevin45, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8edit: http://www.3rdeyedesign.com/
Not a web developer just a wannabe.- I_am_so_smrt, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4The site was constructed with iWeb. Hmm, that's advanced stuff. HA!
- xxNIRVANAxx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2umm, looks like Adobe GoLive to me
[meta name="generator" content="Adobe GoLive"]
- xxNIRVANAxx, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2umm, looks like Adobe GoLive to me
- TomKarpik, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0His drawings are pretty neat, though. God knows I don't have the artistic ability to do that.
- I_am_so_smrt, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4The site was constructed with iWeb. Hmm, that's advanced stuff. HA!
- fkr3, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7Not if it's $0.005 a kilobit. Then it's 4 cents a kilobyte, suddenly it's only 75mb.
- lux55, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Exactly. A charge per bit as opposed to byte adds up much faster. A web page at 50KB would be 400kb which at $0.005/kb comes to $2 per page (yikes!). That's still 1500 pages he would have viewed on his vacation for a bill that size.
The real question is why he needed to view 1500 pages while on vacation? Digg addict? You can't be doing web development or design work on an iphone, so aside from email communications, why was he browsing the web so much and not enjoying the vacation itself? - JerodSlay, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1he put KB (capital B means byte) . This guy (the article) is an idiot. He claims that AT&T is discriminating against its iPhone customers. Give me a break. He signed the contract. He agreed to $0.005/kB On their site, there are examples of how much data checking an e-mail might be, or sending a photo.
- lux55, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Exactly. A charge per bit as opposed to byte adds up much faster. A web page at 50KB would be 400kb which at $0.005/kb comes to $2 per page (yikes!). That's still 1500 pages he would have viewed on his vacation for a bill that size.
- cawpin, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5What a moron.
@kevin45 - It looks to me like he's one of those guys that makes all the annoying artsy schitt on webpages. I hate that stuff. - mikes1, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6The guy's trying to spin a fable.
First he says he's clueless about how much bandwidth he would use, a few paragraphs later, he says "20MB would be burned in a day or two of average use," showing he knows full well. - macfanboi, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1This guy should hang out with the guy that is suing Apple for the non-removable iPhone battery.
- blackmage439, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1If this guy is "developing" so-called Web pages for a living, he needs to find another job... As others have said, one of the most important aspects of building a Web page is how fast it loads, which directly relates to the size of the page in *gasp!* bytes. Buried for stupidity.
- DirtySnachez, on 10/10/2007, -9/+5At $0.005/kb a $3000 bill would mean 600,000KB of data, or 600 megabytes (minus whatever his normal plan cost, so say $100-200 to be generous). 600 Megs is a rediculous amount of data to send over an phone connection with EDGE only, and there is no reasonable way you could get there in just browsing and email, unless you were sending and insane amount of attachments via email.
- windfanatic, on 10/10/2007, -7/+116While there is no question AT&T's (or most other cell phone operator's) data rates are ludicrously expensive..particularly on pay per use plans.. its a free market.. they are free to charge whatever they want.. and you are free to NOT use it. .. or choose a data plan, or another operator, or whatever (even if that means *gasp*.. not using your shiny iPhone). So this guy admits to knowing that he will pay per kb downloaded as he goes, goes on a trip for a month to Europe knowing full well that.. well.. Europe is like.. another continent, that he will be roaming the whole time, and now cries foul play for getting a huge bill for service?.. this is absolutely no different from pigging out on the minibar at a hotel and then crying at the front desk cause their salted peanuts are armed robbery.. sure.. don't f*cking eat them!.
Oh.. and on top of all , a "web developer".. lol!.. gimme a break. I mean, if this was my mom, sure.. you'd be willing to understand the carelesness.. but a supposedly tech savvy person?.. hmm... excuse me but I call this a moron tax- drmobutu, on 10/10/2007, -18/+13When it comes to the iphone, it is NOT a free market.
There is no competition. That is the AT&T Way.- S1L3NTC, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11Then buy a different phone with a different carrier...
- kylesellers, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8That's like saying the Mac has no competition because only Apple sells them. The iPhone is competing with every Samsung, Sony, Motorola, LG, etc. phone on the market. And AT&T is competing with Sprint, Verizon, T-Mobile, etc.
Sounds pretty free market to me... - dark_helmet, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1There is free market. AT&T paid good money to have exclusive rights to the phone, any other carrier could have bought them.
- stellarceltic, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7Nobody put a gun to his head and made him use an iPhone. He chose it, he has to live with its rules and policies.
- kevin45, on 10/10/2007, -8/+4So you'd pay the $3000?
- StudsTurkel, on 10/10/2007, -2/+14No, *****. He probably wouldn't have gotten himself into the situation in the first place.
- stellarceltic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10I'm not saying I wouldn't fight it, but he's an idiot for not looking into the costs ahead of time.
- saleem, on 10/10/2007, -0/+14it is NOT a free market when there are a limited number of vendors (at&t, verizon, sprint, t-mobile), huge barriers of entry (cell tower network nationwide, phones, etc), terrible 2-year contracts which kill transitioning between vendors, etc.
- stellarceltic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3I never said it was a free market. He claimed that when it came to the iPhone, there was no free market, ie. this guy HAD TO use AT&T. Yes, but he didn't HAVE TO use an iPhone and rack up such an outrageous bill.
- kylesellers, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I am not using the iPhone because I didn't WANT a two-year contract. Two year contracts are not forced on anyone. People choose them because they want to save money up front. And they are able to either accept that contract or not.
Sounds like a free market to me. - JerodSlay, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1He said himself that he could have gotten an unlimited blackberry international plan for a lot less than $3000. That sounds like competition to me.
- kevin45, on 10/10/2007, -8/+4So you'd pay the $3000?
- scottschiller, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I was looking forward to teasing my friends in Canada when I visit soon, but it sounds like I'll have to run the phone in "Airplane mode" only - I don't want to get hit with massive roaming data charges (I was told it's 2 cents per KB for data in Canada, and something like 79 cents a minute for voice calls.) The scary part is the phone does check your mail etc. in the background, so it's rather hard to actually prevent data use (unless I'm mistaken.) I'd love to know if there's a way to turn off EDGE use, and only use wifi / voice features.
- caretrain, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2go into Mail settings and tell it to only check mail manually and it will no longer check email unless you tell it to
- dark_helmet, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Its $15/MB on most carriers in Canada. a 1GB plan is about $100/month. 1GB is usually enough for people doing 'normal' things on a cell phone. Where i work people use their laptops on the cell network, and unless there is personal use like browsing YouTube on the phone there is rarely overages. Once case stands out where a user went over and there was a $22,000 bill for one month.
- diggingaround, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1
AT&T = American Terrorists and Traitors...
***** that mega-corporation... I would never be their customer - EVER! - lychondy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1it's a fact that the telcos can't operate in a free market... they have become so scared of true competition that they have lobbied out any possibility of it so they can have an easy monopoly over their territories.
- drmobutu, on 10/10/2007, -18/+13When it comes to the iphone, it is NOT a free market.
- umbriago, on 10/10/2007, -11/+4More like Caveat Moronor, let the moron beware. Vacations are a great excuse to put the cellphone and the computer away, unless you're a Web Developer, and you need to be on call 24/7 in case the web starts to devolve.
All round the world....nope.- streak, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3Wow, are you out of touch with reality. Web developers aren't the only people who need to stay in touch.
- streak, on 10/10/2007, -13/+4I can completely sympathize with the guy. I mean, who would believe international data would cost $20/MB? Or how about for each call you let go to voice mail while you're in another country, the phone company charges you the price of an international call anyway? The government shouldn't make it so easy for companies to gouge customers.
Anyway, there's probably a way to have AT&T disable data only, while traveling internationally. (Neither voice nor data will work unless you call to activate international features). Then just rely on Wi-Fi for your data communications. Compared to international cellular data, the savings on Wi-Fi can quickly add up to more than enough to pay for the phone. toting the little iPhone is a lot like having a real computer in your pocket.- StudsTurkel, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Maybe YOU shouldn't make it so easy for companies to "gouge consumers" by NOT BEING A ***** IDIOT!
- raynar, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3"Or how about for each call you let go to voice mail while you're in another country, the phone company charges you the price of an international call anyway?"
Not if you dont check your voicemail from your cellphone, idiot. The voicemails are stored in-country.- extraspecial, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Actually, you're wrong, "idiot." If they route the call to you internationally, and then you don't answer or divert the call to voicemail, you receive a 1 minute call charge. Your home carrier has to pay the receiving carrier for the call routing. Voicemails may be stored in-country, but there's the signaling involved in getting the call there and back.
- raynar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2You need another plan then. Mine doesnt.
- extraspecial, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Actually, you're wrong, "idiot." If they route the call to you internationally, and then you don't answer or divert the call to voicemail, you receive a 1 minute call charge. Your home carrier has to pay the receiving carrier for the call routing. Voicemails may be stored in-country, but there's the signaling involved in getting the call there and back.
- Chesh, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Streak, If it's half a cent for 1K wouldn't it be $5.12 for 1MB?
- acarr, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0"(Neither voice nor data will work unless you call to activate international features)".
Not true. I have traveled multiple times internationally under the AT&T network and have not had to call to activate. - mikeyv33, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0goverment should control the pricing for cell phones? do you want them to wipe your ass for you too? how about use a phone you understand
- streak, on 10/10/2007, -9/+4AT&T's International Data Global Plan for iPhone costs $24.99 per month (plus taxes and fees) for 20 MB and is only valid in 29 discounted countries. Overage rate is $5/MB plus taxes and fees. In countries other than the discounted 29, the cost is $20/MB plus taxes and fees.
Simply ridiculous.- extraspecial, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Is it? Do you have any idea what the costs from the other carriers being passed to AT&T are?
- rajulkabir, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Well, they offer unlimited data roaming to Blackberry users for $70. So clearly it can't be $3000 or AT&T would have been out of business a long time ago.
- sjbdallas, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2It's not AT&T or Apples fault. The problem is the carriers in those countries who charge AT&T an arm and a leg for thier users to roam.
- extraspecial, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Is it? Do you have any idea what the costs from the other carriers being passed to AT&T are?
- t0ny, on 10/10/2007, -2/+46According to my math $3000 / $0.005 per kb = 600,000kb / 1024 = 585mb.
- kylesellers, on 10/10/2007, -14/+2Good job Mr. Calculator.
- StealthGod, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6It would appear that he was misquoted... it was likely $0.05 per kb. Another "verizon can't do the math" situation.
- AshsToAshs, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4It would be next to impossible to transfer 585mb on Atnt's EDGE network in only two weeks.
More likely he was charged $0.05/KB and he ended up using 58MB in two weeks... which is still kinda alot.
-Ash-
- Livewired, on 10/10/2007, -1/+42FTA: UPDATE, 12:18PM PT: Dave says, "AT&T just called and agreed to waive all charges due to the 'miscommunication.' I think they have a customer for life now."
Something smells fishy.- malkir, on 10/10/2007, -7/+8probably AT&T has learned to watch sites like digg and realize it's a potential nightmare for the company if horror stories hit the web...
- incognit0, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7probably not though
- toast24, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yeah - I would find that very surprising, as large and monolithic as AT&T is.
- incognit0, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7probably not though
- sjbdallas, on 10/10/2007, -2/+10Not a chance. AT&T is not going to eat that cost. THey have to PAY the other carrier. This guy is full of crap.
- raynar, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2AT&T is a multi-million dollar company. Things like this are already factored into their budget, and they'll eat it just to keep customers. Hell, they probably have already made it while I was typing.
- turquoisefish, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Their debt to the other carrier wouldn't be as much as that, especially when they can and do offer bundles.
- raynar, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2AT&T is a multi-million dollar company. Things like this are already factored into their budget, and they'll eat it just to keep customers. Hell, they probably have already made it while I was typing.
- malkir, on 10/10/2007, -7/+8probably AT&T has learned to watch sites like digg and realize it's a potential nightmare for the company if horror stories hit the web...
- seraph82, on 10/10/2007, -12/+8buried - poorly written article. Ambiguously organized.
- Odiwan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Buried, you started your sentence with a lowercase character.
- totorototoro, on 10/10/2007, -2/+13 "AT&T just called and agreed to waive all charges due to the 'miscommunication.' I think they have a customer for life now."
So not so much a horror story after all...more like a fairy tale. :P - leftfield, on 10/10/2007, -1/+14Nine Inch Nails is currently on tour in Russia and they are posting pictures from their iPhones like it's going out of style. Can't wait to see their bill.
- cawpin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12Yes, I'm sure they'll have to worry about the bill. They probably don't even know they HAVE a bill every month.
- Jeffrey903, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7This month so far I have used 127MB of internet (which is not a lot, considering I very rarely use EDGE), and probably a lot more data using Wi-fi (fortunately it is free to use that). That being said, if I had to pay $0.005/KB (which is $5.12/MB), it would cost me $650.24. Wow. I'm glad I only pay $20/month for unlimited data in the US.
- DirtySnachez, on 10/10/2007, -21/+8OMG WOT A NUB HE DUZNT KKWNOW HOW MUCH IPHONES IS RIPOFF
enough with this ***** already, nobody put my sister on digg when she spent $40 on shoes. thats cuz no one cared. like me about iphones..- StudsTurkel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13Coming from a married man, $40 on shoes is a very good deal.
- cheeze_ballz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1yeah, really...i WISH that was all my wife spent on shoes!
- plaincorgi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1OMG Shoes
- ccanni1028, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You don't care about the iPhone? Then stop clicking on Digg stories about it.
- CaptainNoPants, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I'm still waiting for pics of your sister with just her shoes on.
- StudsTurkel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13Coming from a married man, $40 on shoes is a very good deal.
- chukd, on 10/10/2007, -3/+27A web developer should have a clue as to how much data a page uses. Who the hell buys an IPhone instead of a laptop for computer uses. Sorry dude, but you are a dumb ass.
- shadowspawn, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3digg.com/iphone
and with VZW I streamed winamp over a vpn proxy for the weekend while overseas. Didn't cost me a darn thing.- mike17032, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6*****, as Verizion doesnt work overseas at all.
- oosnoopy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Math is hard for some people
- robwilkens, on 10/10/2007, -13/+8Ok, he spends $600 on a phone, and is upset by a measly $3,000 phone bill? That's only 5 times the cost of the phone. I'm sure many people have purchased $20 phones and gotten $100 phone bills that haven't made news like this.
- LimeParrot, on 10/10/2007, -9/+2"Dave says, "AT&T just called and agreed to waive all charges due to the 'miscommunication.' I think they have a customer for life now.""
=) - Gutterpunk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13How is that not the story of an idiot?
Remind me not to contact that guy for web developing if I am looking for something streamlined or small enough to work well on small, portable device, because that web developer is clueless about a basic fact on the web : data transfer. - ogletree, on 10/10/2007, -0/+39One thing caught my attention.
"I'm a web developer as part of my career and I couldn't even tell you how many KB the average web page is"
That is very sad. The guy just pointed out how much he sucks as a developer. - test5477, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3What an idiot, Intl Data Plan - just do it if you go overseas moron.
Why do so many morons get so much press? Why digg this crap? - MechCow, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I think the web has tremendous power to help the little man fight the big man by breaking real stories about companies abusing their powers. Unfortunately it has the power for one small idiot to do a lot of damage by making a lot of noise. Why did bX2 publish this drivel - the guy is a moron and put 600 MB through his phone internationally without properly understanding the charges? Now he whines on the web and gets all the money back in credit. Newsflash - those EDGE networks do not have a lot of bandwidth and if we we're all to behave like this tool they would be crippled. Pay or use a cheaper technology, don't use it then whine on the internet.
- xbigdoggx, on 10/10/2007, -8/+1AT & T is a horrible company. A similar thing happened to me a few years ago. I Just got a new phone before leaving on a trip to San Diego. First the guy and the cell phone store didn't have a AT&T contract so he gave me a Tmobile contract to sign. Then he on all the paper work signed me up for a plan that would allow "no roaming" outside of my state. It is all over my paper work. Well AT&T messed up and put me on a local plan. So when I get home I have a $700 bill for roaming charges. I call them and talk to 2 dozen people. I fax over the paper work. Nothing they refuse to do anything at all. Then I cancel service and they say I am in breach of contract and charge me $200 more. I then tell them I don't have a contract I never signed one because he didn't have one. They tell don't care it is still valid, which at later time our business lawyer tells me is *****. TO make a long story short AT&T are scum bags who pray on their customers. Anyone who signs up with them might as well switch banks to Wells Fargo and Pay someone to ***** them in the ass.
- Kazbaeden, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4"TO make a long story short AT&T are scum bags who pray on their customers."
I dunno, that seems very nice of them...- toast24, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Gotta watch those companies that pray on their customers.
- locojones, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Someone from AT&T actually kneeled down on you and said a prayer? Didn't that hurt your back or something?
- Kazbaeden, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4"TO make a long story short AT&T are scum bags who pray on their customers."
- ahhell, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Damn it. Where did I put that picture of Nelson?
That guy really deserves some HA HA!! - tdgx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+281) Buy iPhone, sign up for data plan without ever calculating how much data gets used and what it would cost.
2) Go overseas and download full length porn DVD's.
3) Get bill and become outraged at how much it costs.
4) Write article whining how it's AT&T's fault for not calculating personal data transfer and drawing diagrams to illustrate potential bills.
5) Wait for AT&T to become aware a retard with a website is on the loose and make things "right".
6) AT&T waives bill and writes it off as a "special Olympics donation".
7) ...
8) Profit?- sjbdallas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6#7 is the part where everyone visits his website and hires him to do web development.
- Iam9376, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Sounds about right. But this doesnt even hit the tip of the iceberg. When i worked at cingular there was this customer who had a $50k wireless, now the only possible way to get that high for a consumer account is data transfer. well, heh, the family's kid downloaded the ENTIRE lord of the rings trilogy. (and no, they didnt get out of that bill i don't believe) so they got $50,000 phone bill, and slapped with $200,000 fee's for pirating the movies. not sure there was any jail time or what became of it all, but yeah.
On topic to this story, the guy is a ***** retard. its not the "EVIL" AT&T's fault this moron doesn't understand data isn't free, and GSM (EDGE,HSDPA, UMTS) data isn't cheap either. personally I wish i would have been the rep to get this guys call..so i could help him go over his bill line by line (because i bet he just say the price and called in) and explain what a ***** he was (hoping the call wasnt monitored for quality :)) and that he in fact would not be getting a discount. but that just me.
- S1L3NTC, on 10/10/2007, -8/+1Let me join the chorus again...
Screw Jobs and the iKnowWhatYourDoing (sponsored by the NSA and their affiliate, AT&T) - phoenixawe, on 10/10/2007, -1/+18Wait ... a web developer who doesn't know how much a KB is? So THAT's the guy who's responsible for those big Flash-based pages that take so long to load.
- MrUnderbridge, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Yep, if only we had an address, the torch-and-pitchfork wielding mob could show up on his doorstep.
If there is anyone on the planet who *should* know how large different media files are, it's a web designer! For God's sake! I have absolutely no pity for this moron. He should have eaten the $3000. Now if only there were a way to institute a moron tax.
- MrUnderbridge, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Yep, if only we had an address, the torch-and-pitchfork wielding mob could show up on his doorstep.
- vpeter, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Using WiFi shouldn't be very hard to a web developer, considering that it is available nearly everywhere.
- natenovs, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1you need to get out of SF/NY
wifi is nearly NO WHERE if you live in the real world
- natenovs, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1you need to get out of SF/NY
- CmdrSpock, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1I had a very similar experience: http://caveofadullam.typepad.com/crumudgeon/2007/08/my-letter-to-th.html
- 1of42, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1...and you're very nearly as stupid as the iPhone guy. This ***** isn't exactly rocket science - everyone with half a brain knows that roaming charges are incredibly expensive; I find it difficult to take you seriously if you complained because you didn't.
- CmdrSpock, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I really wish it were possible for people to disagree on the web without being insulting. In response to your comment, you have written nothing here which addresses the argument I made in my letter. Indeed, you seem to be restricting yourself to insults only.
Of course I realize, after the fact, that the telcos will rape you whenever they get a chance. But as I stated in my letter to the FCC, as someone who had never used a cell phone internationally before, and being in a country where international rates were even lower than the US, the degree to which T-Mobile raked me over the coals was shocking.
Unlike the fellow in the original article, who had a reasonable rate, but transferred an inordinate amount of data and thus absolutely should have known the cost he was incurring, my complaint is about the hidden-and-inordinately-high-rate which was entirely out of proportion to their costs. Which, IMHO, is much more egregious.- sfpeter, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I would agree it's not right of telco companies to charge that much for international roaming, but the arguments in your letter just don't hold up. International roaming is a very different service then your local phone service. There are satellites, international connectivity, complicated billing issues, indian usage charges, and a healthy profit involved. It was your mistake to think your hours of calls would be cheap because you were in a cheap country, and because it's cheap at home. Would you also make a 2 hour long distance call from a hotel room phone, expecting to see a charge for no more than $0.05 a minute on your room bill? I hope not, because hotels also can charge whatever they wish for that service. Do you pick up the phone in your airplane seat without first finding out what it costs? Would you hire a painter without asking him what his rates are, because you think it can't be more than $25 an hour?
- CmdrSpock, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Good point, sfpeter. International roaming is different from local international service: the foreign telco might have to pay tarrifs that the local telcos don't. And in retrospect, culpa mea for not making sure I knew what the rates were. I still think there is a principle of 'reasonable expectation'. As in the example I gave: if the waiter charges you $300 for a 'custom dessert' when all other deserts are only $5, they're really saying "now that you've consumed the dessert, we can charge you whatever we like". Why not $1000, or $1,000,000? Is there any limit to what they could charge?
- sfpeter, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I would agree it's not right of telco companies to charge that much for international roaming, but the arguments in your letter just don't hold up. International roaming is a very different service then your local phone service. There are satellites, international connectivity, complicated billing issues, indian usage charges, and a healthy profit involved. It was your mistake to think your hours of calls would be cheap because you were in a cheap country, and because it's cheap at home. Would you also make a 2 hour long distance call from a hotel room phone, expecting to see a charge for no more than $0.05 a minute on your room bill? I hope not, because hotels also can charge whatever they wish for that service. Do you pick up the phone in your airplane seat without first finding out what it costs? Would you hire a painter without asking him what his rates are, because you think it can't be more than $25 an hour?
- CmdrSpock, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I really wish it were possible for people to disagree on the web without being insulting. In response to your comment, you have written nothing here which addresses the argument I made in my letter. Indeed, you seem to be restricting yourself to insults only.
- 1of42, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1...and you're very nearly as stupid as the iPhone guy. This ***** isn't exactly rocket science - everyone with half a brain knows that roaming charges are incredibly expensive; I find it difficult to take you seriously if you complained because you didn't.
- stronglikedan, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3I would be embarrassed to even tell this story. This guy is a complete moron. I think this is one of the site he develops: http://www.rogerart.com/
- dlawrence, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1its his own fault
- Bejron, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Lame ass moron..
"Ohh,.. Buuuhuuu.. I didn't know what I was doing and now someone wants me to pay for my mistake.
They want to charge me for using their service and they didn't tell me how much I would use and then it's their fault and I shouldn't have to pay then.. "
COME ON !!!!! You don't drive in to a gas station and ask the attendant "How much gas do I need to fill my tank and what will it cost ?" and then starts to whine when it turns out they where wrong.
Grow a pair and take responsibility for your own actions..
- bumblefoot, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2it looks like AT&T have waived the 3k due to miscommunication
UPDATE, 12:18PM PT: Dave says, "AT&T just called and agreed to waive all charges due to the 'miscommunication.' I think they have a customer for life now."
that's pretty decent of them :-) - duggo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3iPhone Settings -> Usage. They provide you a running total of EDGE Network Data sent and received on your phone which you can reset at the beginning of your trip. None of this "I didn't know how much I was using"...
- aelias, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7"(I'm not planning any international travel for a while anyway, but 20MB would be burned in a day or two of average use - they must be kidding.) "
So he knows how fast he chews through 20MB, but he can't multiply by 8?
No sympathy for this idiot. - digitmasher, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I do agree that this guy is a very poor web developer that can't calculate the average web page size. But to clarify about international cellphone usage, the rate that US carriers like AT&T or Sprint charge for international roaming (both data and voice) is determined by the destination country, not the country of origin. AT&T merely relays those charges incurred on the other carrier's network on to the customer.
Most other countries have adopted the "calling party pays" system in which the person who initiates the call is being charged while the person receiving is not, but that applies to both peak and off peak hours so no free nights and weekend minutes for most of them. Text messages go over voice channels and do not incur any additional data charges, picture and video messages do go through data channels, and you will still be charged the rate to check your voice-mail while traveling.- thripper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1calling party pays it's the way to go. I would be pisse if I would be charged for received calls.
- gabogab, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1This story has nothing to do with the iphone. This would have happened with any other Internet device. Furthermore, the fact that, as a web designer he didn't realize that 0.005 per kb would end up being a fortune if he browsed heavily tells you that he should not have a job in the first place.
- edg126, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0I'm glad everyone here for the most part feels the same way I do. I don't see the point of the article, but I do understand the frustration of having high cell phone bills. When I travel internationally with my pda I turn off the data plan because the prices are so outrageous. I take the hit on the text messaging and phone calls. My typical phone bill when I'm out of the country for a week out of the month is about $300-400. Sucks, but I know what I'm getting into. Maybe I boingboing should write a piece on me!
- pevensen, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I agree that this guy is a moron. Anyone who travels overseas knows that international roaming is EXPENSIVE and SHOULD BE AVOIDED. Most phone calls cost $1/minute (well 99 cents).
Cingular used to unlock ones phone (if you asked nicely) when you explained you were going overseas and wanted to use a local SIM card. Has anyone tried this with the iPhone? - pickerin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2"The rep quoted me $.005 per KB but did not disclose what that would translate to in layman's language (i.e., X amount per e-mail, X amount per web page, etc.)."
So he doesn't know what that is? But he does know this?
"but 20MB would be burned in a day or two of average use"
So, let's see: 1 MB = 1024 Kbytes, 20 MB = 20,480 Kbytes, 20,480 * .005 = $102.40. So he should have known he was on the hook for AT LEAST $102.40, PER DAY. So at least $716.80 / week.
Buried as inaccurate. - rfeduccino, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I saw his update. "Customer for life."?!? WTF!?!? They made an EXCEPTION for him -- ATT is still bending the rest of us over the table.
- bill.clark, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Ha ha. That's what you get for buying an iPhone and expecting to use it for business or international travel. It's a consumer phone. The phone and the associated plans are designed with that in mind. Most people who travel internationally don't use their cell phone while traveling because the average joe can't afford thousands of dollars in roaming fees. It's not your carrier's fault, they get charged ridiculous fees by the foreign carriers.
All in all, don't use your phone in a foreign country if you don't want to pay for it. Don't be a knob. - amacinnis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I used to work at a call center which took AT&T business end user customer support calls. We'd always laugh at guys like this. You'd be surprised (okay, maybe you wouldn't) at how many times we'd get calls almost EXACTLY like this one.
Surprise! If you travel to another country, you're going to get charged a different rate for data! "The rep quoted me $.005 per KB but did not disclose what that would translate to in layman's language." Gee, did he think to ask? That's what they're paying their employees for. If you don't ask "How many kilobytes in an average e-mail?" they're going to assume you know how many kilobytes are in an average e-mail. Remember: they're paid to answer phones, not read minds.
Honestly, I've gotten calls from people like this and denied them any credit. There's no reason for it. He was told exactly what the rate would be. The huge bill is due to his failure to ask further questions.
Also, sadly enough, $3000 is pretty minor compared to some bills I've seen. One woman got her daughter a text messaging plan that was too small, ended up stuck with a $7500 bill at the end of the month.
Unfortunately, saying "But I wasn't told!" constitutes a valid defense when you call in to AT&T, because 99% of the time they'll credit the charges back to you, even if they're 100% valid. Here's a hint to everybody: if you see an upgrade fee on your bill next time you upgrade your phone, just call 611. Complain enough, claim you "weren't told about it", and (if they resist) speak to their supervisor. I guarantee you you'll get it put back into your account. - Fletchi18, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I don't know if this has been said in this thread or if anyone else is with me but, frankly, I'm sick and tired of these 'I'm a moron and I did something stupid and XX company is charging me for it and I don't want to pay so I'll post it on the internet and the company is bound to crumble under the pressure' stories. By digging stories like this, we're rewarding stupidity in this country. Buried!!
- psyjoniz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2i completely agree with you. and in this case, i'm sorry, but all things considered, especially since he's tech savvy, he should be happy they offered the 400 off.
solution to this? don't buy into the *****. the iphone is awesome. it being exclusive to at&t is capitalism at its best. get a ***** clue.
- psyjoniz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2i completely agree with you. and in this case, i'm sorry, but all things considered, especially since he's tech savvy, he should be happy they offered the 400 off.
- arthurk, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Sorry, but this guy is absolutely retarted. Here in Germany i pay 18 Euro = 25 US Dollar per Mbyte. And this is for NATIONAL DATA plans. And I pay for every used kbyte. Why does this guy thinks he is more intelligent, by first using - without asking for the price, and then complaining???
This is non-sense, that he used services and now doesnt want to pay!
And he calles him a web deverloper?? He is a looser, and I hope this will ruin his reputation as developer for being so stupid. - akhomerun, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1what a stupid idiot. the rep told him the data rate and used too much data. even though he is a web developer, he is too stupid to know how much data a kilobyte is! of course blackberrys have better intl plans, they are meant for BUSINESSES, and iphones are meant for CONSUMERS.
Stop complaining and pay for the service you used. You knew the price. You went through the extra effort to ask. You bought an iPhone, you can afford a $3000 bill. - froggiestone, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0buried for beeing extremely lame
web developer ?`L O L - hanzzz, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0anyone have a mirror? its blocked at my end
- careyt, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1so the moral of this story is that you can cheat the system and not pay what you owe if you raise enough hell and get it posted on the internet??? wow we really do suck here in america...
- Xenner, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0man up, ignorance is not bliss, it is completely his fault for not knowing how much he was going to be using.
- ldkronos, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Maybe he's a former Verizon customer and thought they said 0.005 cents per kb
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