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7 Apps that Leopard Kills

tuaw.com — TUAW has posted about apps that Leopard killed. There's some quotes from related developers, and you can also look at this as some apps to get Leopard features before it comes out.

Who dugg this? Made popular Aug 9, 2006

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  • n8dawg87, on 10/12/2007, -2/+40The one app on that list that is COMPLETELY in the clear is QuickSilver. Spotlight 2.0 will not be able to come close to what has been done with that heavenly piece of software. Oh and please fix the link.

    Here's the direct to Phill's blog:
    http://phillryu.com/2006/08/08/7-apps-on-leopards-hit-list/
  • tonyarnold, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17I'll digg it, because I'm in it :) BTW: My comments are completely on the happy side of things in this argument - in your head, insert a smiley after my last comment...
  • StarBeamAlpha, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17ShowMacster: $20
    ChatFX: $20
    Virtual Desktop: $40

    Looks like Apple saved me $80, cool.
  • factoryjoe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Great comments by the actual developers being affected... a very good, on-the-ground approach to the topic.
  • saggygrandma, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15flag564: I don't think Apple generally 'steals' ideas, their main example of spaces for instance, that has been on linux for years.
  • robotlol, on 10/12/2007, -12/+22So, when Apple does the same thing as Microsoft, which YOU ALL STRONGLY HATE, you gloss it over and say how great Apple are, don't insult them and so on ?

    I love you guys, no bias here, at all ! :)
  • Aiwanei, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Isn't OSX built off of linux? So they are taking features of opensourced ideas and integrating in to a user friendly OS with a market. That's a good kind of stealing.

    OSX is built off BSD Unix, so no not Linux per se.
  • Kypt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Spotlight is to Quicksilver what Window's command prompt is to a bash shell...
  • DPowers08, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Also, Front Row Enabler is gone, which isn't too much of a shame. Nice to see some official support from Apple. Thanks for the hack Andrew Escobar.
  • wpholmes, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14These aren't exactly innovative things...
    Tabs in Chats? RSS support? Faster Search?

    Is apple not allowed to add good features because they can't do it as quickly as some freeware developer can?
  • angelp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I think the only people who believe Spotlight is a threat to Quicksilver are the people who only use QS as a launcher. For those of us who take advantage of its numerous abilities, we realize that Spotlight can't even begin to touch Quicksilver.
  • McMultiverse, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Okay, I understand where Phill Ryu is coming from with this piece, but he derails his own feature with his typically overblown and downright silly comments.

    Apple adds features that overlap with other software...
    Phill Ryu: This is the worst thing ever.
    Developer: Man, we expected this for ages. We're just going to build on it.

    Now, let's take a look at these programs:

    Chax? ShowMacster? ChatFX? Plug-ins to an Apple program. They move to iChat's drumbeat, not the other way around.

    SuperDuper? Time Machine isn't the same thing, just like Volume Shadow Copy and Backup aren't over in Windowsland. So, it's kind of a last-ditch effort on Ryu's part to compare the two.

    Virtue? Eh, it was a real nice experiment, but not nearly ready for primetime. Trust me, I've been using it forever (and Desktop Manager before it). Spaces is the first real virtual desktop solution on OSX.

    Quicksilver? Everyone uses Quicksilver, even if they use Spotlight too (or more).

    Core Animation hurting CoverFlow? Are you ***** kidding me? If anything, it'll make software like CoverFlow that much better - easier animation, easier coding, more robust access to system-level graphical tricks. This segment pissed me off the most, since Ryu was obviously scrounging for stuff to cry wolf about.

    Mail plug-ins? Look back at the iChat sections. They're neat and all, but they have to evolve with software. Plug-in developers KNOW this going in.

    So, yeah. I would've loved a more balanced, reasonable look at these points. Instead, Phill Ryu decided to huff some dick and look like an idiot compared to the developers he interviewed. Good for them, bad for him. This story still has my digg, though - for the developer comments alone.
  • vashmyvindows, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9What they steal is irrelevant, since the OS would stagnate if they avoided other people's ideas.
  • robotlol, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I really don't care who does what, I'm only making these posts to point out how Microsoft does the exaxct thing you said ("Is apple not allowed to add good features because they can't do it as quickly as some freeware developer can?") yet you all flame them, cry and scream..

    That's what I'm getting at, you all need to cut Microsoft some slack when it does something like added tabs into IE and other things which is just "general advancement."
  • crossthread, on 10/12/2007, -14/+19Rough translation from typical poster using the word "fanboy"

    "I don't agree with what you just said, and I have nothing useful to add to the conversation, so I'll belittle you with the word 'fanboy'."
  • w0rd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Hmm, that is a good take on it. To be fair, Microsoft does make some good products. Active Directory, 2003 Server, SQL Server, etc. I think that the problem Microsoft has, that Apple doesn't, is its lack of unified direction. There are parts of it that innovate and break out a great product and then there are the ugly parts from the Gates era that consume and squash with no regard to innovation.
  • thebraineater, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7It seems like Apple used to be pretty good about not copying ideas. I guess dashboard was the beginning of the end. At least they improve the things they take.. for the most part.
  • Quix, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"Could Apple just innovate and stop ripping off other peoples ideas?"

    Ah, someone let flag564 out of his troll hole again. Where were you yesterday man, with all the WWDC action? Without you around, iSEPIC and Lynn were getting all the trolling booty for themselves...
  • davdav, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Chax was useful before it implemented tabs in the program. Get real.
  • Glenn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I’m looking forward to see what developers are going to do with Core Animation.
  • elroy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4spotlight (the UI available to user) isn't so hot. it's nice that it's real-time, but it's pretty watered down. however, the backend stuff (mdfind, etc.) is very, *very* powerful. it's a whole query language for finding stuff on your system. i'm lucky enough to have a client who runs the rich web application i'm developing for them on an OS X server. the file search is backed on mdfind and it's amazingly fast and versatile.

    so yeah... the os x metadata system, and quicksilver -- two completely different things.
  • oOLiquidNightOo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7one of mac's early mantras was: good artists borrow, great artists steal. regardless of how much they rib microsoft, they still live by it.
  • McMultiverse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4NOTE: Microsoft's problem isn't adding software to Windows with overlapping functionality to programs already on it. You EXPECT that to happen with operating systems. The issue is in HOW it adds it - inextricably bundling software is a bad, bad idea.

    Removing IE6: Next to impossible.
    Removing Safari: Drag it to the trash.

    And that's just from the user end. Microsoft's legal problems were never "copying" other programs or including overlapping software. It was because they abused their monopoly position by unfairly threatening OEMs who would include competing software. This plus the inextricable bundling were the problems.

    Apple and OSX have a different product structure than Microsoft and Windows - the latter is vertically integrated, while the other is horizontally integrated. Comparing the two directly in this particular situation is sort of impossible - Microsoft's added flexibility in being able to license their software (a HUGE market of machines) also comes with the responsibility (don't abuse your monopoly). Apple gets a smaller pool, but they aren't kept in check by the same rules as Microsoft. If you want a reason why this is, pick up an Economics textbook.
  • scubasteve03, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Yeah, you are right, there are some products that Microsoft makes that aren't crappy. However, their flagships (Windows, IE, etc.) really aren't that great.
  • robotlol, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I hate the short time on posts, here is my full post..

    __ Edit: My post above is fixed, I feel silly, digg this one down and digg the other. __

    I really don't care who does what, I'm only making these posts to point out how Microsoft does the exaxct thing you said ("Is apple not allowed to add good features because they can't do it as quickly as some freeware developer can?") yet people use childish insults and say how lame they are.

    So, cut Microsoft some slack, if tabbed browsing takes off, why the hell shouldn't they be allowed to add tabbed browsing to the next version of IE ?

    Everyone 'steals' and everyone is original, and yes, even Microsoft is no matter how many times you say to yourself that they aren't.

    I want people to get over it from both sides and if Apple could stop the childish attacks (Copy-cat, 95 Rubbish Bin poster, Vista 2.0 blah blah) it would be grand.
  • scubasteve03, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7The difference here between what Apple is doing and what Microsoft has done/is doing is that Apple is releasing a product that is competition to more expensive third parties and doing it better than the third parties are doing it. People release similar products all the time. Pepsi and Coke, for instance, are similar products but each survives because most people prefer one or the other.

    What Microsoft does is offer a similar but inferior product to third parties and then tries to use their massive funds to squash the third party out of existence. Take IE and Firefox for example. Instead of making IE better, they do all this weird non-standard code business to make it break on Firefox.

    Apple is trying to make a better product than what is already out there. That is capitalism.
  • DPowers08, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6HoudahSpot seems pretty much done know as well with the addition of boolean search.
  • FriscoTony, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Damn... I can't believe how Apple is ripping off Microsoft on how to rip off other developers. It's a totall rip-off rip-off.
  • arnaudh, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I have zero problem with Apple nor Microsoft making their OSes better. If a third-party developper makes a nice utility to improve Mac OS X and it gains traction, it means it was missing in the OS release. Now if Apple releases a new version of the OS, it only makes sense for them to keep up with what's missing in Mac OS X. Same goes for Windows.
    Bitching about Apple because Leopard is going to "kill" some third-party apps is ridiculous, just like it would be ridiculous for critics of Microsoft to bitch that IE 7 includes tons of features pioneered by Firefox or Opera.
  • pgsalas, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4To me this seems like an attempt to manufacture more substance for Apple's reputation for stepping on its developers' toes. What I mean is, without Watson/Sherlock or Konfabulator/Dashboard, this list would have never been compiled. The ones that may be killed by Leopard (the iChat enhancements and Virtual Desktops programs IMO) are hardly unique enough to criticize Apple for incorporating some of their features. So yes, some of these may be "killed", but whether that is really news is debatable.
  • mks06, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Totally, yes. Quicksilver is beyond amazing. Apple are going to have to try really hard to kill that app.
  • w0rd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5He really is right, Microsoft was targeted on the net as a copycat with IE7 and they aren't doing anything different then Apple. If Microsoft and Apple tried to limbo through development and avoid the bars of copying surely they would stagnate. I think there is something to be said for f*cking people over though. Both Apple and Microsoft have their share of that. Borrowing an idea is one thing but talking to a developer like you are going to buy them out or integrate their product and then developing it and revealing it at the last possible second is weak.
  • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"First, when Apple adds features, they tend to do so in a very unique and innovative way"

    Doesnt it just drive you nuts when these guys do this.

    "Yes, its the same thing were knocked MS for doing, but, but, when Apple does it, they do it in a cool way!"


    Just whom do they think they are fooling? They are obviously covering for Apple like a bunch of stooges!
  • MrBabyMan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I guess despite his lip service at the WWDC Keynote, this is how Big Steve REALLY treats his 3rd-party developers...Maybe to him, 3rd-party developers are just a fertile ground of ideas for what to put in the next version of OSX.
  • node3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4No, if MS made a quality OS with features people want, we'd APPLAUD THEM. Nobody hates MS for innovating too much. People hate MS for making their overall user experience *worse*. MS will take the superior feature of a competitor and ship a highly inferior version with their OS. After a time, that competitor dies, and MS's version stagnates until the next competitor threatens MS into action.

    For example, look at Netscape vs IE. Eventually, IE did become really good. But look how long it was stuck at version 6, until Firefox nudged MS to finally start on version 7 (a version nowhere near as good as Firefox, but a version which will certainly negatively affect Firefox growth).
  • w0rd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3All of the "Big Steve" crap aside, that is kind of an interesting idea, in a conspiracy theory sort of way. You have to wonder what goes through the mind of someone with that kind of power. Does he look at each OSX release as a starting point for a garden of ideas grown by third party developers? *queue spooky music*
  • Panoctopi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4True enough, it has to suck to be one of the developer's whose baby just got choked, but it doesn't have to be the end. It wouldn't be the first time that developers take this as a challenge and add features and enhancements to their products that sufficiently distinguishes them from whatever apple is offering to survive. In a perfect world apple would buy this guys out or somehow reward them.
    However the difference is that this apps were build as enhancements to osx features, so in some ways the relationship is symbiotic and not at always parasitical. MS is a direct competitor to Apple so when they continuously rip off Apple there's no excuse. Also, MS gets ripped for taking forever to create a ***** copy, while in most cases apple provides their users something even cheaper, more elegant, and seamless than what existed previously as a third party app.

    No I'm not a fan boy, so don't even waste your time, unless you have something coherent to add to this conversation. Like I said, I'd would admire apple more if they did the right thing, but please don't compare this to MS parasitical behavior because it's not even close.
  • McMultiverse, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5How can you say stuff this stupid without your eyeballs melting out of their sockets?
  • brendanc, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Actually, without Microsoft, Apple wouldn't exist... sorry to say...

    Have you any idea how much stock Microsoft has in Apple? A lot. Not to mention the fact that without Microsoft developing Office for OS X, Apples would, sadly, become a no-go for most corporate offices. OpenOffice really isn't that popular.
  • staed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"Apple are going to have to try really hard to kill that app."

    I don't think that's their agenda. They are just trying to improve their own software. I can't see what's wrong with that. And people that like, say, QuickSilver or Firefox will continue to do so despite the features in Spotlight or Safari.
  • danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I don't have a problem with either Microsoft or Apple having new features in their OS that encroach on other developers. The problem I have with Microsoft is that if they don't have any competition they quite developing and improving their product. I.E. 6 went for way too long without any new features. It wasn't until Firefox started gaining market share that they started to think about updating and adding these common features. Of all of these features none of them feel like brand new innovations, just common sense improvements. The Konfubulator->Dashboard was much more debatable and questionable then any of these. If you look far enough back Apple had many of the same features long ago though.
  • alexkorova, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2nicwilliams, ehm, so the XP patches are equivalent to the updates and new features Mac OS X have gotten during the same time period?
  • spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm far from a fanboy. Look up some of my previous posts and you'll see me advocating Windows in a lot of instances and Linux in others. I want computers to get better; not just one company. I just happen to have a different viewpoint from yours. So, if you have a real arguement to make against what I said, I'd be happy to listen. Otherwise, stfu.
  • dlsspy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I'll agree to that. People were talking about spotlight as the quicksilver killer when spotlight came out. I heard a few people say otherwise, so I tried it out. I had heard of, but not used Quicksilver until 10.3 came out, and I'm now completely lost on a mac without it.
  • brendanc, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Yeah, I've had my desktop on for the better part of, oh, 3 weeks, aside from a restart to install a critical patch, and the time before that where I shut it down to fool around with the hardware, yeah, Windows hasn't really crashed...
  • aallan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Yup there are a bunch of similar articles, for instance my own which follows up from Phill's, http://www.babilim.co.uk/blog/2006/08/so-what-happened-at-wwdc-2006.html , and one by Chris Messina at http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2006/08/08/apples-research-rip-off-department/

    I can sympathize with developers stuck in this situation, I've had similar things happen to me in the past, although not done by Apple. But, when it comes down to it, if you're tying yourself so closely into the OS that you're adding "obvious" functionality you sort of have to expect that Apple might be thinking along the same lines. Those are the breaks...
  • borgdrone, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Yep, Apple copies from other, just as much as others copy from Apple.

    Fast user switching appeared on Windows & Linux much before OS X

    Konfabulator appeared much before Expose

    Leopard's spaces is nothing but a glorified version of Virtual desktop feature which has been on Linux for longer than I can remember.

    There are many others

    But I have to say, Apple is quite an innovative company. Just don't say that Apple doesn't copy. That wouldn't be true you know.
  • mikev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2leopard is going to kill much more than 7 apps. when apple makes a new OS, they actually do it. vista wont kill anything, IE7 won't make it better than firefox, and it wont be any more secure.

    edit: anyone notice the macpro banner at the top?
  • d38as3r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2MS coming up with any innovation they didn't outright steal or purchase, yeah that would be NEW!, please also (before you start whining about things you know nothing about) see word "INNOVATE" IE. "Make changes in something ESTABLISHED, esp. by introducing new methods, ideas or products" and for you preschoolers... taking something that exists and making it phatter
  • alexkorova, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1brendanc, if either of the both parties(Apple and Microsoft) did never exist, it would have affected the other party alot, and pehaps todays IT world very much also, so there's no telling how things would be today.
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