I've been struggling with that question. See, if Paul and Kucinich both win their primaries, then we're SURE to have a great next president. BUT if one of them loses thier primary (probably Kucinich, at this point), perhaps they could be on the SAME ticket. More of a risk (since the other ticket could be like Hillary/Anotherdumbass), but then you have the potential of having BOTH in office.
I find it highly unlikely for them to be on the same ticket. But a race between the two of them would be extremely rewarding for this nation so desperately in need of change and passion.
1. If Kucinich were to win, the onus on forcing his candidacy to me something would be on the people. Corporations would throw us under the bus to discourage us to ever try it again. Does the population have the resolve to fight them?
2. If Paul were to win, he would not be allowed to do most of what he wants. Only his pro-business domestic policies would get through. A president doesn't act in a vacuum.
I said we were "SURE to have a great next president" -- I did not say we'd have a great government. Getting someone competent in office is only the first step.
(To notque. It just wouldn't let me reply to his comment... silly Digg.)
A great president has to TRY to make things better. As you said, "a president doesn't act [alone]", but that is true of any candidate. I'm speaking on the quality of the president as a representative.
I understand what you're saying: that history will only look favorably upon a president who makes changes (which we're not technically sure anyone can do, since we cannot predict the support from congress), and while I agree, that was not the type of greatness I was referring to.
I cringe when I see you refer to Paul's "pro-business" domestic policy. You mustn't be referring to monetary policy, nor IRS, Social Security, limiting subsidies, or cutting military spending. I guess you must either be talking about environmental policy, where Paul wants to limit the role of the EPA, or possibly his stance on net neutrality. What you're not considering is the extremely poor performance of the EPA under the Bush administration, which raises a very serious question about the wisdom of centralizing its authority in a single place like this, instead of decentralizing their authority to state agencies, who will be able to withstand even the most corrupt federal administrations. Same with net neutrality; do you really want our congresscritters, in the pockets of large telecom, and completely clueless about technology, voting on internet regulation? At least if we give states a shot at the problem, one or two might even stumble upon a solution that actually works for our benefit. Minimizing federal power sometimes helps ensure that our domestic infrastructure won't be so vulnerable to a corrupt presidency or national congress. I've always voted for progressives in the past, but in this case, some libertarian redress at the federal level is just what our government needs.
Look, Paul's policies may look pro-corporate on paper but believe me: no corporations would want Paul as president. His deregulation would spur competition, something companies hate. Subsidies would end and they'd have to *GASP* make actual profits. Why do you think all the big companies are backing democrats with their strict regulations? A kind heart?...
Paul and Kucinich couldn't be further apart from eachother idealogically. The only thing they have in common is their anti-war and civil liberties stance. They are polar opposites in every other respect. You can't just support two candidates on the same ticket because of how "fringe" they are. Research their policies for chrissake. Go kucinich.
i have said it before and i will say it again the best thing a president can do is surround them self with people who disagree with them so that ideas from both parties are considered and a happy medium is achieved
Should Obama include a KKK grandwizard in his cabinet then?
Some people are more than ideologically apart; Ron Paul and his inane attempts at policy should never be allowed to leave the internet.
word. i love having libertarians around in principle: they offer fun banter, and always seem to have the craziest delusions... but yes, for everyone's sake, praytogod they stay out of government. dugg.
I find the idea of a Paul/Kucinich ticket ridiculous, except that either of them ought to pick and even more fringe running mate to make assassination less likely.
I really like the old idea of the top candidate being the president and the second to top candidate being the VP. That way, when the country is divided both sides have a representative in the white house. Why did we stop doing this, again?
"Why did we stop doing this, again?" If you are actually an IT professional, you should be able to find this on the Internet and if you are not, they will cover it in your US history course when you get into HS. The simple answer (because it seems you like the idea of a kucinich / paul ticket and thus are incapable of going deeper) is that it simply did not work in practice (e.g., see the Jefferson - Adams feud).
Kucinich, asked about the issue you bring up, said that including Paul in his administration would unite two huge segments of the population that would otherwise be at each others throats (liberals and libertarians). I think it would be a good thing in principle because having to compromise would moderate both candidates' more extreme positions. (Kucinich is the man, but his gun control policy def. needs moderating)
Thing is, the only way it would happen is as a third-party run. And third-party candidacies are screwed because the Dems and GOP would unite against them, with a mind-boggling advantage in campaign finance.
"Paul and Kucinich couldn't be further apart from eachother idealogically."
Except they both live and breath the Constitution. Yes they have different interpretation of it, Kucinich believes the Federal government has the power to provide socialist policies while Paul doesn't. They both are vigilant fighters of corruption, they both take the time to actually read the bills they vote on. Different world views (free market versus socialism) same essential heart and honestly. And honestly either free market of socialism could potentially work in a corruption free society, (like thats gonna happen).
Yeah. Kucinich is wrong, though. The Constitution isn't an allegory. If Kucinich would at least admit that some of his proposed reforms (universal healthcare, in particular) would require a Constitutional amendment, I'd be a lot more comfortable with him, and I would support both his candidacy and the amendment. If he intends to snake it through with the usual tortured interpretation, forget it. If he has in fact made a statement on this issue I'd be interested to know what he said.
In any society with corruption, government can't work. That's why I consider myself an anarcho-capitalist: nobody gains enough power to be corrupt enough to affect you. Don't like your government? Get a new policy.
Yes, Kucinich and Paul disagree on many things. However, what they have in common is that they have good intentions. They are interested in fixing America, not continuing to rape and exploit it. The fact that they disagree on how to get there simply means that they have twice as many options to consider!
You forgot the reason that I would be happy with either of them, they are both honest. To me it counts for a lot more than their positions. I loved a lot of the things W said when he was running in 2000, such as low taxes, small government, and no nation building.
Anyone running on anti-war today has balls and is honest, because all the other candidates know if they ran with that, and then didn't go with what they promised, dissent will form nationally and a coup will begin. Even if they do change their mind during their campaign about the war, they will lose all credibility as a candidate, because they have lacked a serious background in that issue.
As much as they are both digg friendly. These two could not be more different. Paul is so Right Wing (not this neo-con *****, but actually for states rights...i don't have time to explain what actually being right means...look it up) and Kucinich is the most liberal. Its great that they are in the debate, and the chances of them actually making a showing in the election is very slim. Don't get me wrong I would love to see Kucinich in there but his role and Paul's role is to make sure they are talking about really things and not just the same political BS that would normally be there.
Is everyone here stupid? Kucinich vs Paul doesn't mean they're running mates. It means they're running AGAINST each other. It would be a "dream ticket" because it would be a win for democracy. Those two stand for democracy. Kucinich stands little to the left, Paul stands a little to the right, but they are both Classical Liberals.
Well, if the Dems would grow a pair and quit letting the Republicans control all the talking points, maybe people would see that he's not so far out there in relation to what the American people actually want.
If the Democrats would stop following corporate order and start following public opinions polls that go against the corporate edicts, maybe people would see that it's actually what the people want.
Umm you mean the public opinion polls that say Hillary should be the next President.
No we have elected representative leaders for a reason, they are supposed to be knowledgeable about the law and form researched opinions. The masses do neither. Sadly the congress nowadays doesn't either. Here is hoping Paul's (or Kucinich's) Veto pen will change this.
When you take a minute to actually see where his positions are, they're not extreme, and I think a larger percentage of the american electorate agrees with him than most think. The problem is his label as a fringe candidate makes few people take him seriously. Meanwhile, centrist policies get labeled left-wing and the neocons laugh all the way to through the legislative process.
when people vote just on the issues that are important to them, overwhelming they find themselves in line with kucinich. http://www.dehp.net/candidate/stats.php
Socialism and socialsed medicine are, for some reason, especially key words that mobilize the talk radio crowd. The cold war's over, can't we move one and make our country better now?
@airburst:
I don't think of authoritarian communist dictatorships, I think higher taxes funding inefficient government bureaucracy, which limits growth and encourages unemployment, like in Europe.
Some people, like me, associate socialism with bad policy, not a country. Socialism is force. Charity is voluntary. Why don't you donate rather than steal from Peter to give to Paul?
Socialism stifles innovation, masks the actual cost of things (market failure), encourages laziness, is a tool of the elite to stop revolt, and can cause long-term economic problems which are nearly impossible to solve once the people of the state are dependent.
Some people, like me, associate unrestrained capitalism with robber-baron like feudalism, and life in the dark ages. Why can't citizens agree, as a group, to take care of each other and therefore prevent socially destabilizing disparities in wealth?
Capitalism creates a stratified society where a few accumulate a lot of power and resources, and the rest suffer at their hands. Once a powerful over-class is able to oppress an under-class, there's a good chance that society is headed towards a violent revolt. The revolutionaries slaughter the rich, put the most violent and ignorant of the poor in power, and the process repeats itself again a few generations later.
I'm not naive enough to think that either pure capitalism or pure socialism are panaceas. Rather, a managed economy with good safety nets on both ends, preventing people from becoming desperately destitute, and preventing people from becoming disparately wealthy and powerful, is probably the best we can hope for.
Ironically, taking away guns, and government run health care are teh same stances, Hilter took..
Granted Kucinich is a nice guy and he wouldn't screw thing up. It' the congress and the next president we would have to worry about.
I would love to see Kucinich emerge victorious in the Democratic primary as Hillary and Obama pummel each other out of the race. Hillary's doing a great job of copying GOP campaign strategy from the last several elections - too bad the voters are sick and tired of their ***** and have become just angry enough to see it for what it is: 99.9% ***** and spin. Obama may fare better if he can avoid the negative side of campaigning, but I still think there are too many racist pricks in America to elect a black, non-christian president.
i feel if he is christian or not is moot at this point. the smear campaign has done a great job convincing the religious right that he is not christian.
I agree. Hillary is slipping fast as she is showing her true colors. She panders to her audience, says whatever they want to hear. She is quite possibly the most disingenuous person on the campaign trail. I hope that Obama can rise about the crap, but I am not sure if "America" is ready. Kucinich has, IMHO, the best strategy to get us back on track.
Here's why: Straight talk. People are tired of being lied to. He also makes a lot of sense. We need honesty in our government. He seems to be the most honest candidate that I've seen.
People didn't suddenly decide they were tired of being lied to. We are in the ebb and flow of normal political life in America.
What they want us to do is rush towards Hillary who will continue similar policies to Bush. If we go against Hillary, other corporate candidates are lined up to take their place.
As long as they can avoid a real candidate like Kucinich, they are safe.
Kucinich just won't get enough support to pose any threat. It's not the candidate that has the best stance on the issues that gets the nomination, it's the candidate that is the most electable. Frankly, Kucinich comes off like the crazy guy in the corner that no one really listens too.
Kucinich will be unemployed next year. The Democrats are lining up to oppose him in the primary for his congressional seat and, for the first time, a Republican office holder is filing for the race. He will lose this seat, either in the primary or general election ( the two name Democrats may cancel each other out, allowing Kucinich to squeak in with 40% of the vote) because he does not represent the people of his district.
Which goes a long way to explaining the low productivity and high taxes found in most of Europe, to say nothing of the muslim crazies running rampant in the UK, France and the Netherlands.